C4L2014 Feedback Thread

2014-06-18 08:50:36 pm

Terraffirmative!

I have a lot more to say but it's been made pretty clear that there's not going to be more responses until after SGDQ anyways, so I'll just touch on the location issue. The point is, we aren't really concerned with the idea of the marathon being in Edmonton or Vancouver or whatever, but more in the complete close mindedness of "it's either here or here or I walk." It very well be that one of those is the best location, but the complete lack of willingness to look at other options is concerning.

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-06-18 09:10:39 pm

2014-06-18 09:10:16 pm

Is PJ

Quote from thadarkman78:

Well yes of course things like contracts can be done remotely; I wasn't suggesting that UA is like the guy that handles everything because he lives there, but my point is that the overall process of hosting an event goes smoother if you have someone you trust that lives in that area. I don't really think it's fair to say that Denver = a remotely hosted event when I don't think that's entirely true.

All I'm trying to say is Poxnor hosting it in say Oklahoma wouldn't exactly be the same as SGDQ in Denver, not to overstate or understate any difficulties of hosting SGDQ where it is now.

As widespread as the RPG community is now, I'd like to think Poxnor is capable of trusting people outside of Edmonton or Vancouver. There are plenty of trustworthy people in the RPG community, one of whom even offered to host it herself.

Edit: Also, what Murph said.

Potato Handle

Edit history:

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:56:05 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:55:21 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:54:58 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:45:54 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:44:07 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-22 07:24:50 pm

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:15:54 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:14:51 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:14:20 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:12:44 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:12:20 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:11:35 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:09:47 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:09:29 am

Potato Handle: 2014-06-20 01:05:39 am

2014-06-20 01:05:27 am

Plays games quickly. Eventually.

Ahoy there guys!

Most of what I want to say about the organizational aspect of the marathon has already been thoroughly mentioned, I just want to touch on the more social aspects which I noticed.

- Tech station work -
I really wanted to help out on donation reading and maybe some tech work (If I was capable.), but I never knew how to 'sign up' and I didn't know what the requirements were. I suspect I was just meant to tap the announcer on the shoulder and offer my service, but shy old little me felt that that was being intrusive and I didn't want to interfere with operations.

A schedule, or simply a "I am available between these hours, call me whenever you need." sheet might have got some more readers and donation workers happening. This may have been my fault for being a little nervous about asking, but I may not have been the only one in this boat.

- Hanging Out/Streaming Room Attendance -
The practice room basically became the 'hangout' room. We needed a place outside of our rooms where we could just meet up and hang out, chat and have some fun, and the practice room wasn't very suited for this. It should have been further from the streaming area, and should have had some permanent console fixtures with some fun party games and tables and the like to get us all chatting, laughing and inter-mingling.

I think had there been a stronger social focus you would have seen more people hanging out in the streaming room to see runs. For example, I hadn't been to Vulajin's channel before C4L, but after meeting and chatting with him on the first day, I was really keen to see his run. (It was right after mine, so I didn't end up actually seeing it, but the example still stands, I was more interested in the run after meeting with the runner.)

I remember for C4L2013, Poxnor said something along the lines of C4L being a social marathon first and a fundraiser second, which is why I decided to travel 17,000kms to visit C4L rather than a GDQ. And while I enjoyed myself; I think I could have enjoyed it a lot more if I got to spend more time with my streaming heroes, hehe.

- Twitch Chat -
Echoing the thoughts of many here, but for emphasis; C4L2013 chat wasn't bad at all. With a few more moderators it would have been nearly perfect. Turn off sub mode, make the rules strict, make sure there's a bot for egregious violations and it will be more than manageable.

We're shutting out MASSIVE numbers of people by cutting out twitch chat. (Even including having the ability to sub next year.) I was extremely disappointed with the decision to have it turned off this year. If you absolutely insist on having sub-only next year, then AT LEAST put frequent "Go here for chat." messages in the twitch chat (As well as plugs for donations/prizes/charity/runs, etc). I genuinely think the event would have reached 5 times the viewership had twitch chat been left on.

We STARTED at 1.4k viewers and AFAIK we barely cracked 2k at the marathon's peak, everyone who was going to watch was there at the start, and barely any newcomers stuck around after they saw that the default chat wasn't active. It would have seemed like a very cold, unlively marathon from a viewer's standpoint.

And Poxnor, I love you dude, but I've seen your comments in this thread so far to be rather rigid and dismissive. There have been some wonderfully made points in this thread (Albiet some with a level of aggression.) Please try not to get too defensive, and take it all on board.

All that aside, I really enjoyed myself, and I hope I can make it again in the future, and I appreciate the work and personal costs which went into the event. \o/

EDIT: Forgot to reply to this:

Quote:

Deposits/price:
Much has been said about this, but I don't know if an intercontinental possible attendee gave their opinion.

I was the only intercontinentalist who made it, I believe. And the costs boiled down to be not an issue for me. I was expecting attendance/accom to be around $300-$350, it ended up being $500 which was a surprise and I wished it was less, but $150 wasn't much to add onto an already $3k+ trip, especially considering with sponsors and supplied breakfast, I probably saved more than $150 in food and cooking effort. That aside, for people on stricter budgets than me; $150 could EASILY make the difference between attending and not attending, so lowering the price for attendees should be a proirity next year.

Ahoy there guys!

Most of what I want to say about the organizational aspect of the marathon has already been thoroughly mentioned, I just want to touch on the more social aspects which I noticed.

- [b]Tech station work[/b] - 
I really wanted to help out on donation reading and maybe some tech work (If I was capable.), but I never knew how to 'sign up' and I didn't know what the requirements were. I suspect I was just meant to tap the announcer on the shoulder and offer my service, but shy old little me felt that that was being intrusive and I didn't want to interfere with operations.

A schedule, or simply a "I am available between these hours, call me whenever you need." sheet might have got some more readers and donation workers happening. This may have been my fault for being a little nervous about asking, but I may not have been the only one in this boat.

- [b]Hanging Out/Streaming Room Attendance[/b] - 
The practice room basically became the 'hangout' room. We needed a place outside of our rooms where we could just meet up and hang out, chat and have some fun, and the practice room wasn't very suited for this. It should have been further from the streaming area, and should have had some permanent console fixtures with some fun party games and tables and the like to get us all chatting, laughing and inter-mingling.

I think had there been a stronger social focus you would have seen more people hanging out in the streaming room to see runs. For example, I hadn't been to Vulajin's channel before C4L, but after meeting and chatting with him on the first day, I was really keen to see his run. (It was right after mine, so I didn't end up actually seeing it, but the example still stands, I was more interested in the run after meeting with the runner.)

I remember for C4L2013, Poxnor said something along the lines of C4L being a social marathon first and a fundraiser second, which is why I decided to travel 17,000kms to visit C4L rather than a GDQ. And while I enjoyed myself; I think I could have enjoyed it a lot more if I got to spend more time with my streaming heroes, hehe.

- [b]Twitch Chat[/b] - 
Echoing the thoughts of many here, but for emphasis; C4L2013 chat wasn't bad at all. With a few more moderators it would have been nearly perfect. Turn off sub mode, make the rules strict, make sure there's a bot for egregious violations and it will be more than manageable.

We're shutting out MASSIVE numbers of people by cutting out twitch chat. (Even including having the ability to sub next year.) I was extremely disappointed with the decision to have it turned off this year. If you absolutely insist on having sub-only next year, then AT LEAST put frequent "Go here for chat." messages in the twitch chat (As well as plugs for donations/prizes/charity/runs, etc). I genuinely think the event would have reached 5 times the viewership had twitch chat been left on.

We STARTED at 1.4k viewers and AFAIK we barely cracked 2k at the marathon's peak, everyone who was going to watch was there at the start, and barely any newcomers stuck around after they saw that the default chat wasn't active. It would have seemed like a very cold, unlively marathon from a viewer's standpoint.

And Poxnor, I love you dude, but I've seen your comments in this thread so far to be rather rigid and dismissive. There have been some wonderfully made points in this thread (Albiet some with a level of aggression.) Please try not to get too defensive, and take it all on board.

All that aside, I really enjoyed myself, and I hope I can make it again in the future, and I appreciate the work and personal costs which went into the event. \o/

EDIT: Forgot to reply to this:
[quote]Deposits/price:
Much has been said about this, but I don't know if an intercontinental possible attendee gave their opinion.[/quote]
I was the only intercontinentalist who made it, I believe. And the costs boiled down to be not an issue for me. I was expecting attendance/accom to be around $300-$350, it ended up being $500 which was a surprise and I wished it was less, but $150 wasn't much to add onto an already $3k+ trip, especially considering with sponsors and supplied breakfast, I probably saved more than $150 in food and cooking effort. That aside, for people on stricter budgets than me; $150 could EASILY make the difference between attending and not attending, so lowering the price for attendees should be a proirity next year.

ButtersBB

2014-07-03 06:50:37 pm

Quote from Poxnor:

Perhaps we can wait until SGDQ is in the books (because I don't want to create a negative atmosphere around any other truly amazing marathons organized by other people), and then I can give thorough and thoughtful replies to everyone who wants them. Just know that sometimes my reply might disagree with the feedback given (for example, I know one point of contention is the Twitch chat, where I hear the feedback but still disagree -- that doesn't mean that I'm not listening, just that I might not always agree Smiley

)

I think a good approach might be that if people want immediate feedback on specific points, I can give it right away. Mike implied that he wants my opinion on some things right away. Otherwise, I can give it during the post-marathon period for what I'm sure will be an awesome SGDQ Smiley

Cheers
--Ryan

So, marathon is now in the books...

C4L feedback. Thoughts?

ButtersBB

2014-07-09 07:08:36 pm

... I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL I GET THE ANSWERS THAT I CRAVE.

Seriously though, one of the common complaints about C4L is that during the all important "build up" phase, the organizer would randomly go MIA for extended periods of time.

Responding to this criticism by going MIA for an extended period of time is pretty poor form.

MetaSigma

2014-07-13 04:03:06 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Aright I think we've had more than enough time to let everything settle down. Now is the time for proper DISCUSSION of things about what happened. Everything that has been said is more than fair (in most cases) a fair assessment of what has happened and I do think it wise to actually consider what the actual future of this is. Poxnor I do believe that you and I should discuss as you are currently the head of this and it would bear much more fruit to hear what others have been asking me about the future of this event. (I've gotten a LOT of people asking me questions that WANT to come but are afraid of a few things right now!)

Ginzuishou

2014-07-13 06:39:24 pm

Even for all the flaws C4L did have, it was still good. It benefits a cause that a lot of people can get behind, with a lot of great games that won't be in gdq's.

Pox and Poxwife are great people. I feel that in the midst of the criticism, because C4L is their baby, they are taking a lot of it to heart and are having a hard time seeing the criticism in a constructive light even if it's being delivered in not so polite ways. I know you both are doing your best and I know I'm thankful for what you have done, I hope the community is too.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Doesn't make it wrong, right or whatever but the majority of people commented here for a reason. If individuals didn't care about C4L or felt the need to make it better, this thread wouldn't have got so many comments on it, negative or positive. I think the majority of everyone who has commented wants to take the foundation of what C4L is now and improve on it to make C4L amazing. I even made some comments that were not the nicest or could have been perceived that way, I apologize for the delivery and how the information was processed, but not the message in it. I pray, literally pray, that it can be possible for both of you (and all the organizers really, myself included) to critically analyze the information presented and make rational decisions based on it for the betterment of C4L. Regardless of how it's being said, that is what everyone wants.

Even for all the flaws C4L did have, it was still good. It benefits a cause that a lot of people can get behind, with a lot of great games that won't be in gdq's.

Pox and Poxwife are great people. I feel that in the midst of the criticism, because C4L is their baby, they are taking a lot of it to heart and are having a hard time seeing the criticism in a constructive light even if it's being delivered in not so polite ways. I know you both are doing your best and I know I'm thankful for what you have done, I hope the community is too.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Doesn't make it wrong, right or whatever but the majority of people commented here for a reason. If individuals didn't care about C4L or felt the need to make it better, this thread wouldn't have got so many comments on it, negative or positive. I think the majority of everyone who has commented wants to take the foundation of what C4L is now and improve on it to make C4L amazing. I even made some comments that were not the nicest or could have been perceived that way, I apologize for the delivery and how the information was processed, but not the message in it. I pray, literally pray, that it can be possible for both of you (and all the organizers really, myself included) to critically analyze the information presented and make rational decisions based on it for the betterment of C4L. Regardless of how it's being said, that is what everyone wants.

Worn_Traveler

2014-07-13 07:52:57 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

I've watched C4L the last two years, and while I know that there are a lot of things that could have gone differently this year, I think it needs to be said that there isn't something necessarily wrong with a marathon that doesn't make as much or more than the previous one. It happens sometimes, even with great planning and runs and such. TSG has had some highs and lows over their 25+ marathons. The GDQ's seem to be the exception to the rule thus far (provided one keeps A and S separate). Don't let the fact that you raised less this year be a downer. It's an impetus to keep doing your best.

Poxwife

2014-07-13 08:22:34 pm

Here is the long-awaited "response from the organizers". Our intention with this post is to respond to the major comments that were brought up in this feedback thread - so there may be a few things that were missed. We hope that this post answers the questions and concerns that many of you have had, and if anyone has any constructive responses to this post, we welcome them.

******

COSTS
We agree that costs were higher than they should be this year, and if C4L happens again in the future, we will aim for the previously suggested limit of $325-350 for quad occupancy. Also, the price will be set 90 days in advance of the marathon. (Note: since the idea of a deposit was very unpopular, we won't be able to guarantee the price if there are late drops. We will try to build in a buffer to prepare for this, though.)

COMMUNICATION
We acknowledge that this was a major problem this year. Clearly attendees would like to see weekly updates during the planning stage, so this will happen.

LOCATION
Certainly the convenience of attendees is a concern for us, but we would be setting ourselves up for failure if we did not host the event somewhere that we either live or have contacts that have already stepped up as willing to help. Therefore, the only 3 possibilities that make sense are Vancouver, Edmonton, and SLC (at Kari and Denton's house - thanks again for the offer!). We apologize to anyone for whom these cities are inconvenient, but please keep in mind that it is impossible to find one city that is convenient for every potential attendee.

VOLUNTEERING
There were some excellent suggestions made with regard to volunteer roles such as tech and hosting. First, we agree that there should be shifts or schedules for these roles - especially for the night shift or other hours when not many people are around. Second, training should be a priority. We can improve this by holding a tech/donation training session on the first day of the marathon, and also by providing written instructions to attendees. We would like to get as many people involved in these jobs as possible!

EMPTY STREAMING ROOM
We are still at somewhat of a loss as to how to fix this. One suggestion was to encourage more socializing off-stream to build relationships that will hopefully lead to more excitement on-stream (see below for more on the issue of socializing). Aside from this, we would love to hear any other suggestions about how to get more bodies and more excitement in the streaming room.

TWITCH CHAT
We will bring this issue to the charity, and we'll try to present as unbiased a view of what happens in the Twitch chat as possible. One point that hasn't really been addressed is that we will need more mods if we have both QuakeNet and Twitch chats happening, so we will expect those who pushed so vocally for a Twitch chat in this thread to step up and mod if the charity approves it. Smiley

C4L TWITCH CHANNEL
We are open to this idea; however we would need to secure at least partner status (and ideally sub status as well). If anyone would like to help us arrange this with Twitch, please let us know.

PRIZE PLUGGING
We agree there wasn't enough plugging of prizes this year. Certainly it was easier at C4L2013, when the prizes were physically present, but even in the absence of the actual prizes, we could make it easier for commentators and hosts by making a printed list of prizes to consult during the run.

COMPUTERS
With regard to the streaming machine, we obviously need to do more testing in advance. We did copy the setup that was suggested to us by the GDQ organizers, but it clearly didn't work, so we will start figuring out what went wrong soon.
With regard to the gaming PC: this was a problem. We are happy to accept suggestions about how to fix this, whether it be not having any PC games in the marathon, or designating an attendee to provide the PC (and test it in advance!).

HEALTHY SNACKS
We can try to approach grocery stores for donations, but obviously there is no guarantee that this would work. However, if having fruit available is important to attendees, we could organize a "fruit pool" (e.g. everyone who wants fruit gives us $5 on the first day, and we go to the grocery store and buy a whole bunch).

COMMENTATING
I think most people will agree that the quality of commentary was not up to par this year. We acknowledge that some of the last minute schedule changes made this difficult for some games; however, most of the games were on the schedule from the beginning, so this was not the only problem. We will try to help commentators to prepare next year by giving some guidelines in advance (e.g. play the game you're commentating if you haven't played it recently; watch the runner practice and learn their route and why they made certain route choices; talk about the story of the game on stream because many viewers may not be familiar with your particular game; etc.)

GAME CHOICE AND SCHEDULING
C4L was founded with the principle that as many people as possible should be given a chance to play a game in a marathon (note: this is not "1 player, 1 game" - if there's extra time to fill after each player gets one game, then we're fine with some players getting more than one). We understand that not everyone shares this point of view, but this is an important value for the organizers of C4L. We are committed to a game selection process that is as inclusive as possible. The main area where we need to improve the game selection process for next year is having back-up games selected further in advance (probably during the initial game selection process), in anticipation of drops. We apologize to those who had to prepare several games this year with relatively short notice, and we will work to plan back-up games in advance next year.

SOCIALIZING
We agree that there needs to be more emphasis on community building and socializing next year. If we hold the event in a hotel, we will endeavour to find another space (that is not the practice room, which really should be dedicated to serious practice) where attendees can get to know each other and hang out. There could also be some "icebreaker" activities held early on in the event so that everyone gets to know each other.

******

Hopefully this addresses the major issues that have been raised. As to the future of the event, this is still up in the air. We certainly understand that many people were frustrated with the planning process this year, and if we do hold C4L again, we will do our best to improve following the guidelines above. So probably the main question is whether there are still enough people interested in attending an RPG marathon that puts inclusiveness and community first. We absolutely respect the GDQs and their focus on fundraising, but for us that has always been a secondary concern. If there's enough interest to justify holding C4L 2015, then we will get started planning in earnest right away!

Here is the long-awaited "response from the organizers". Our intention with this post is to respond to the [b]major[/b] comments that were brought up in this feedback thread - so there may be a few things that were missed. We hope that this post answers the questions and concerns that many of you have had, and if anyone has any [b]constructive[/b] responses to this post, we welcome them.

******

[b]COSTS[/b]
We agree that costs were higher than they should be this year, and if C4L happens again in the future, we will aim for the previously suggested limit of $325-350 for quad occupancy. Also, the price will be set 90 days in advance of the marathon. (Note: since the idea of a deposit was very unpopular, we won't be able to guarantee the price if there are late drops. We will try to build in a buffer to prepare for this, though.)

[b]COMMUNICATION[/b]
We acknowledge that this was a major problem this year. Clearly attendees would like to see weekly updates during the planning stage, so this will happen.

[b]LOCATION[/b]
Certainly the convenience of attendees is a concern for us, but we would be setting ourselves up for failure if we did not host the event somewhere that we either live or have contacts that have already stepped up as willing to help. Therefore, the only 3 possibilities that make sense are Vancouver, Edmonton, and SLC (at Kari and Denton's house - thanks again for the offer!). We apologize to anyone for whom these cities are inconvenient, but please keep in mind that it is impossible to find one city that is convenient for every potential attendee.

[b]VOLUNTEERING[/b]
There were some excellent suggestions made with regard to volunteer roles such as tech and hosting. First, we agree that there should be shifts or schedules for these roles - especially for the night shift or other hours when not many people are around. Second, training should be a priority. We can improve this by holding a tech/donation training session on the first day of the marathon, and also by providing written instructions to attendees. We would like to get as many people involved in these jobs as possible!

[b]EMPTY STREAMING ROOM[/b]
We are still at somewhat of a loss as to how to fix this. One suggestion was to encourage more socializing off-stream to build relationships that will hopefully lead to more excitement on-stream (see below for more on the issue of socializing). Aside from this, we would love to hear any other suggestions about how to get more bodies and more excitement in the streaming room.

[b]TWITCH CHAT[/b]
We will bring this issue to the charity, and we'll try to present as unbiased a view of what happens in the Twitch chat as possible. One point that hasn't really been addressed is that we will need more mods if we have both QuakeNet and Twitch chats happening, so we will expect those who pushed so vocally for a Twitch chat in this thread to step up and mod if the charity approves it. :)

[b]C4L TWITCH CHANNEL[/b]
We are open to this idea; however we would need to secure at least partner status (and ideally sub status as well). If anyone would like to help us arrange this with Twitch, please let us know.

[b]PRIZE PLUGGING[/b]
We agree there wasn't enough plugging of prizes this year. Certainly it was easier at C4L2013, when the prizes were physically present, but even in the absence of the actual prizes, we could make it easier for commentators and hosts by making a printed list of prizes to consult during the run.

[b]COMPUTERS[/b]
With regard to the streaming machine, we obviously need to do more testing in advance. We did copy the setup that was suggested to us by the GDQ organizers, but it clearly didn't work, so we will start figuring out what went wrong soon.
With regard to the gaming PC: this was a problem. We are happy to accept suggestions about how to fix this, whether it be not having any PC games in the marathon, or designating an attendee to provide the PC (and test it in advance!).

[b]HEALTHY SNACKS[/b]
We can try to approach grocery stores for donations, but obviously there is no guarantee that this would work. However, if having fruit available is important to attendees, we could organize a "fruit pool" (e.g. everyone who wants fruit gives us $5 on the first day, and we go to the grocery store and buy a whole bunch).

[b]COMMENTATING[/b]
I think most people will agree that the quality of commentary was not up to par this year. We acknowledge that some of the last minute schedule changes made this difficult for some games; however, most of the games were on the schedule from the beginning, so this was not the only problem. We will try to help commentators to prepare next year by giving some guidelines in advance (e.g. play the game you're commentating if you haven't played it recently; watch the runner practice and learn their route and why they made certain route choices; talk about the story of the game on stream because many viewers may not be familiar with your particular game; etc.)

[b]GAME CHOICE AND SCHEDULING[/b]
C4L was founded with the principle that as many people as possible should be given a chance to play a game in a marathon (note: this is not "1 player, 1 game" - if there's extra time to fill after each player gets one game, then we're fine with some players getting more than one). We understand that not everyone shares this point of view, but this is an important value for the organizers of C4L. We are committed to a game selection process that is as inclusive as possible. The main area where we need to improve the game selection process for next year is having back-up games selected further in advance (probably during the initial game selection process), in anticipation of drops. We apologize to those who had to prepare several games this year with relatively short notice, and we will work to plan back-up games in advance next year.

[b]SOCIALIZING[/b]
We agree that there needs to be more emphasis on community building and socializing next year. If we hold the event in a hotel, we will endeavour to find another space (that is not the practice room, which really should be dedicated to serious practice) where attendees can get to know each other and hang out. There could also be some "icebreaker" activities held early on in the event so that everyone gets to know each other.

******

Hopefully this addresses the major issues that have been raised. As to the future of the event, this is still up in the air. We certainly understand that many people were frustrated with the planning process this year, and if we do hold C4L again, we will do our best to improve following the guidelines above. So probably the main question is whether there are still enough people interested in attending an RPG marathon that puts inclusiveness and community first. We absolutely respect the GDQs and their focus on fundraising, but for us that has always been a secondary concern. If there's enough interest to justify holding C4L 2015, then we will get started planning in earnest right away!

Brossentia

Edit history:

Brossentia: 2014-07-13 09:15:40 pm

2014-07-13 09:14:15 pm

No pain, no gain

Poxwife, thank you for the great post, and I'm glad you and Poxnor have been able to get all these responses out. I guarantee you that people want C4L 2015--there was plenty of discussion at SGDQ, and everyone wants a successful C4L. I still think this one was great, but it's always good to weed out the problems that happened.

I mostly heard about organization and location being the big things for people. I know Poxnor is insanely busy--I was just finishing a master's, and I pretty much was destroyed by how much time it took. I was even going to organize an online marathon, but I had to pass the reigns to someone else. I'm unsure if Poxnor will have more or less time in the upcoming future, but I do know that many people in the US RPG community, including Essentia and Denton, are willing to commit to organization. We also have quite a few people locally who can pitch in, myself included.

I really like the idea of having a marathon return to a house. We can make VG sleep in the crawl space again.

Honestly, I think location is the first thing we need to discuss; after that, we can talk about what can be done so that we don't have as many difficulties. For me, Essentia's house is perfect, but that's because she's my sister. I'd be happy to see what other people think. Yes, this would mean Poxnor wouldn't be the head organizer, but if we had enough support from locals, we'd be able to handle things.

EDIT: I'm all for Twitch chat. I moderate chat for the GDQ's, and it's actually become reasonable. If we got CBenni on board, we'd be set. For realsies.

Poxwife, thank you for the great post, and I'm glad you and Poxnor have been able to get all these responses out. I guarantee you that people want C4L 2015--there was plenty of discussion at SGDQ, and everyone wants a successful C4L. I still think this one was great, but it's always good to weed out the problems that happened.

I mostly heard about organization and location being the big things for people. I know Poxnor is insanely busy--I was just finishing a master's, and I pretty much was destroyed by how much time it took. I was even going to organize an online marathon, but I had to pass the reigns to someone else. I'm unsure if Poxnor will have more or less time in the upcoming future, but I do know that many people in the US RPG community, including Essentia and Denton, are willing to commit to organization. We also have quite a few people locally who can pitch in, myself included.

I really like the idea of having a marathon return to a house. We can make VG sleep in the crawl space again.

Honestly, I think location is the first thing we need to discuss; after that, we can talk about what can be done so that we don't have as many difficulties. For me, Essentia's house is perfect, but that's because she's my sister. I'd be happy to see what other people think. Yes, this would mean Poxnor wouldn't be the head organizer, but if we had enough support from locals, we'd be able to handle things.

EDIT: I'm all for Twitch chat. I moderate chat for the GDQ's, and it's actually become reasonable. If we got CBenni on board, we'd be set. For realsies.

mikwuyma

2014-07-13 11:32:15 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Poxwife. I'm glad you responded and it's great to know you and Poxnor are responding to people's concerns.

I agree with Brossentia and I think Essentia's house would be a great idea for the next C4L, and here's why.

1. A lot of attendees are in the US.

There are international attendees, but I think most of the attendees are from the US, and flying to SLC is cheaper than Vancouver or Edmonton.

2. Being in a house means lower costs for a lot of attendees.

People won't have to pay for hotel rooms and will just have to pay Essentia and Denton a small fee (I can't speak for them but I would be shocked if it's over 50 dollars) to cover food, electricity, and other costs during the event.

This might also mean lower costs for international attendees (maybe even Canadians!).

3. Smaller stream room means empty stream room won't be as much of a problem.

The stream room being smaller will make it look more intimate, which I think is great for an rpg marathon. Usually the runner is the one doing all the talking, and there generally aren't as many people in the room. Also, there won't be as much to show on camera, so even if there are only one or two people in the room, it won't look quite as empty.

4. The house has plenty of room to fit attendees.

If I had to guess from SGDQ 2012. I would say Essentia's house can house 30-40 people who can actually stay there. I remember hearing this year's C4L having around 20 attendees, so even if attendance doubles, Essentia's house would have ample space for attendees.

While Essentia's house would not work forever, I think it would work perfectly for the next C4L.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Poxwife. I'm glad you responded and it's great to know you and Poxnor are responding to people's concerns.

I agree with Brossentia and I think Essentia's house would be a great idea for the next C4L, and here's why.

1. [b]A lot of attendees are in the US[/b].

There are international attendees, but I think most of the attendees are from the US, and flying to SLC is cheaper than Vancouver or Edmonton.

2. [b]Being in a house means lower costs for a lot of attendees[/b].

People won't have to pay for hotel rooms and will just have to pay Essentia and Denton a small fee (I can't speak for them but I would be shocked if it's over 50 dollars) to cover food, electricity, and other costs during the event.

This might also mean lower costs for international attendees (maybe even Canadians!).

3. [b]Smaller stream room means empty stream room won't be as much of a problem[/b].

The stream room being smaller will make it look more intimate, which I think is great for an rpg marathon. Usually the runner is the one doing all the talking, and there generally aren't as many people in the room. Also, there won't be as much to show on camera, so even if there are only one or two people in the room, it won't look quite as empty.

4. [b]The house has plenty of room to fit attendees[/b].

If I had to guess from SGDQ 2012. I would say Essentia's house can house 30-40 people who can actually stay there. I remember hearing this year's C4L having around 20 attendees, so even if attendance doubles, Essentia's house would have ample space for attendees.

While Essentia's house would not work forever, I think it would work perfectly for the next C4L.

Vulajin

2014-07-13 11:32:55 pm

I would like to put in a +1 for Essentia and Denton's house. They have hosted events roughly our size before, can do so at much more reasonable cost than any hotel we will find in any city, and they are located fairly centrally to most prospective attendees. International travel to SLC is, unfortunately, not super advantageous, but at the moment the bulk of our attendees are American, and even for international attendees the massively reduced event cost should help offset the airfare. Additionally, UA is in Denver and I'm in San Jose, so we could both potentially travel over land and bring PCs to be used as streaming and gaming PCs. Finally, if Essentia and Denton focus on all of the location logistics, that frees others up to handle other marathon organization, including tech, volunteers, scheduling, etc.

Poxwife

2014-07-14 01:47:22 am

Thanks all for your comments.

I just wanted to make one clarification. My suggestion of potentially holding the next C4L at Kari and Denton's house was in recognition of the fact that holding it at a house would cut down significantly on costs (and unfortunately, our home is much too small to hold it at our place). We are still planning to explore other possibilities that would be cheaper than this year's accommodations. Ryan and I are not looking to completely transfer organization responsibilities for "our baby" to someone else at this time, although we do appreciate the offers of help.

MetaSigma

2014-07-14 06:36:12 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

I also +1 Kari and Denton's place. I agree that all avenues of possibility should continue to be looked at as well, but I also agree that hosting it at a house (Which was also where the first C4L took place again thank you both Poxwife and Poxnor for allowing us into your home to be there) was highly successful as well as much more community feeling which is what you both are looking for in a marathon correct?

Brossentia

2014-07-14 08:46:29 am

No pain, no gain

I hope you know that everything I say here is with full respect for both of you, Poxnor and Poxwife. I've met Poxnor personally, and he was an amazing person to be with. The FF8 run at SGDQ was both hilarious and enjoyable, and I'm glad I was able to spend a decent amount of time with him. Also, I know I was less involved with this marathon--I helped moderate chat, but I knew I would be unable to attend these events. I still hope you'll give careful consideration to what I say, though.

I talked to Essentia about this event, and she told me how disappointed she was in her performance. I wasn't too surprised--I mean, she always says that things didn't go as well as she wanted--but I later found out that things were much more complicated. She thought she would run one game, but that turned into three shortly before the event. It was a mad rush to get ready, and it lead to a performance that she wasn't proud of. I learned that this wasn't an isolated experience.

Almost every single item on the list comes down to one problem: a lack of organization. This is actually a rare case for a marathon. You usually can't tack everything to one problem, but we certainly can here. The sudden extra games for runners, the drops without backup games, the computer having problems, the lack of people in the stream room, the 24-hour shifts, the lack of advertisements, the people finding out that they were supposed to be bringing a computer after they already showed up to the marathon, the sponsor being dropped because a list couldn't be compiled--all of this comes down to organization. At this point, it's not a case of, "Well, we'll see if everything comes together for this next year." It's a community that wants this problem solved because we love the event and want to see it grow.

Put simply, if we want C4L to keep happening, we can't let someone who went AWOL before the last marathon take charge of the next.

I honestly think it's time to let your baby grow up a little more. It's difficult to say that--most of the marathons are still staffed by the people who started them, but many other events in other communities pass the torch to those who are ready and able when the time comes. This happened with SGDQ, and I'm sure it'll eventually happen to AGDQ when Uyama inevitably loses his mind. If this is more about the community than the individuals, then I hope you can understand why many of us want C4L to be organized by others; we want it to succeed and grow, and we know that it didn't happen this last year.

I know this is a lot to take in, and I wouldn't want you or Poxnor to disappear from staff, but I do think it's time to step back and let someone else take the lead. It's a lot to discuss, so please, don't rush everything. Just give it some honest thought.

I hope you know that everything I say here is with full respect for both of you, Poxnor and Poxwife. I've met Poxnor personally, and he was an amazing person to be with. The FF8 run at SGDQ was both hilarious and enjoyable, and I'm glad I was able to spend a decent amount of time with him. Also, I know I was less involved with this marathon--I helped moderate chat, but I knew I would be unable to attend these events. I still hope you'll give careful consideration to what I say, though.

I talked to Essentia about this event, and she told me how disappointed she was in her performance. I wasn't too surprised--I mean, she always says that things didn't go as well as she wanted--but I later found out that things were much more complicated. She thought she would run one game, but that turned into three shortly before the event. It was a mad rush to get ready, and it lead to a performance that she wasn't proud of. I learned that this wasn't an isolated experience.

Almost every single item on the list comes down to one problem: a lack of organization. This is actually a rare case for a marathon. You usually can't tack everything to one problem, but we certainly can here. The sudden extra games for runners, the drops without backup games, the computer having problems, the lack of people in the stream room, the 24-hour shifts, the lack of advertisements, the people finding out that they were supposed to be bringing a computer [i]after[/i] they already showed up to the marathon, the sponsor being dropped because a list couldn't be compiled--all of this comes down to organization. At this point, it's not a case of, "Well, we'll see if everything comes together for this next year." It's a community that wants this problem solved because we love the event and want to see it grow.

Put simply, if we want C4L to keep happening, we can't let someone who went AWOL before the last marathon take charge of the next.

I honestly think it's time to let your baby grow up a little more. It's difficult to say that--most of the marathons are still staffed by the people who started them, but many other events in other communities pass the torch to those who are ready and able when the time comes. This happened with SGDQ, and I'm sure it'll eventually happen to AGDQ when Uyama inevitably loses his mind. If this is more about the community than the individuals, then I hope you can understand why many of us want C4L to be organized by others; we want it to succeed and grow, and we know that it didn't happen this last year.

I know this is a lot to take in, and I wouldn't want you or Poxnor to disappear from staff, but I do think it's time to step back and let someone else take the lead. It's a lot to discuss, so please, don't rush everything. Just give it some honest thought.

Driscollad

2014-07-14 09:19:31 pm

Is this a general opinion? I wasn't at SGDQ so I can't know from speculation and rumours, but is it the general consensus that the RPG community would like someone else to run this event next year. I leave out C4L and Crystals For Life as names, because those are affiliated with JDRF Edmonton, so we can just call it "this event."

If anyone would prefer anonymity, PM me instead of posting publicly, by all means

Worn_Traveler

2014-07-14 09:27:44 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

Sorry to briefly change the subject but there's been a lot of talk about the empty stream room and part of it might come from a lot of the attendees not being familiar with some of the rpg's. I know that it's easier for me at least to watch a 20 minute game I've never played or seen but sitting through a 3+ hour run for a game I'm not familiar with or haven't played is a bit more of a challenge. Perhaps this is what happened. It's just an idea. I'm more of a researcher, watcher, and verifier than a runner but I have enjoyed watching C4L the last two years (I lurk a lot in the chat) and I hope to make it to a future installment. I'll shut up now and let the more important discussions continue.

Driscollad

2014-07-14 09:45:38 pm

That's a valid point W_T thanks for submitting that

Brossentia

2014-07-14 11:20:17 pm

No pain, no gain

Driscollad, I understand wishing to keep anonymity, but people are frankly a little worried about posting right now, and they really don't want to push the wrong buttons. I've probably talked to ten or fifteen people who feel this way, and I believe there are more; they're free to speak up here whenever they want. I just want to keep things as public as possible.

The main point that I've heard time and again from attendees, though, is that they're unlikely to attend again if the leadership doesn't change. I know you'd return, Driscollad, but you're the only one I've heard from that said they would along with the Poxnor and Poxwife. At this point, changing who runs it is frankly a do-or-die situation; if it doesn't change, C4L isn't likely to happen.

Again, this isn't to be mean or anything, but I don't want to see this marathon die. It's quickly on that road, though, and everyone needs to be aware of that. Without the community, this marathon is gone, and the community is ready to leave unless some big changes happen.

Community, you are also welcome to post here, even if it's just "I agree/disagree with Brossentia." I'd like them to know that this is actually an issue that needs addressed.

Driscollad, I understand wishing to keep anonymity, but people are frankly a little worried about posting right now, and they really don't want to push the wrong buttons. I've probably talked to ten or fifteen people who feel this way, and I believe there are more; they're free to speak up here whenever they want. I just want to keep things as public as possible.

The main point that I've heard time and again from attendees, though, is that they're unlikely to attend again if the leadership doesn't change. I know you'd return, Driscollad, but you're the only one I've heard from that said they would along with the Poxnor and Poxwife. At this point, changing who runs it is frankly a do-or-die situation; if it doesn't change, C4L isn't likely to happen.

Again, this isn't to be mean or anything, but I don't want to see this marathon die. It's quickly on that road, though, and everyone needs to be aware of that. Without the community, this marathon is gone, and the community is ready to leave unless some big changes happen.

Community, you are also welcome to post here, even if it's just "I agree/disagree with Brossentia." I'd like them to know that this is actually an issue that needs addressed.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2014-07-14 11:24:40 pm

2014-07-14 11:23:20 pm

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the official responses so far are not engendering a serious increase in my confidence about next year's event. The most telling facet is that there is no mention of consideration of adding more organizational support next year. Every response on the "Poxnor was too busy" front has been "sorry, my bad, I won't do that again," which unfortunately sounds like you're just planning to do it all yourself again and hope it works right this time. Frankly, I cannot afford to spend well over $1,700 of my own money and a week of my time again on an event that seems likely to backslide even further next year than it did this year. So, yes, I agree with Brossentia.

ButtersBB

2014-07-14 11:40:40 pm

I have absolutely nothing against the Pox family. This isn't a personal attack, nor is this coming from some hive minded "REMOVE POXNOR" campaign.

That said, I think Brossentia summed up my concerns in an earlier post when he mentioned that he had to step down from running an online marathon due to his Master's program taking up too much of his time. I had a similar experience not too long ago: I had to drop out of the FGC and speed running for a time due to my Master's program.

I can only imagine how much time would be taken up by a law degree, or a career in law for that matter. I assume that this is the reason that there was those long stretches of silence and organizational difficulties. This is totally understandable.

So what's wrong with just handing the reigns off to someone else that can give this thing the attention it deserves? Maybe we can have a committee thing (someone organizes the schedule, someone else organizes the venue, someone else organizes the volunteer work, etc.).

At any rate, I decided not to go to C4L early on when I noticed all the organizational snafus, and I certainly would not feel keen on going based on everything that happened. A new look is in order. I agree with Brossentia.

I have absolutely nothing against the Pox family. This isn't a personal attack, nor is this coming from some hive minded "REMOVE POXNOR" campaign.

That said, I think Brossentia summed up my concerns in an earlier post when he mentioned that he had to step down from running an online marathon due to his Master's program taking up too much of his time. I had a similar experience not too long ago: I had to drop out of the FGC and speed running for a time due to my Master's program.

I can only imagine how much time would be taken up by a law degree, or a career in law for that matter. I assume that this is the reason that there was those long stretches of silence and organizational difficulties. This is totally understandable.

So what's wrong with just handing the reigns off to someone else that can give this thing the attention it deserves? Maybe we can have a committee thing (someone organizes the schedule, someone else organizes the venue, someone else organizes the volunteer work, etc.).

At any rate, I decided not to go to C4L early on when I noticed all the organizational snafus, and I certainly would not feel keen on going based on everything that happened. A new look is in order. I agree with Brossentia.

puwexil

2014-07-15 01:04:02 am

Professional Second Banana

This is hard for me as I highly respect everyone involved here and know that we're all committed to putting on the best marathon we can, both for the RPG speedrun community and for charity. After reading through this thread again though, I'm still not feeling confident that the organizational problems this year's marathon had that held it back (especially with regards to location/costs and open/regular communication) will be fully resolved by next year.

As it stands right now, I agree with the above posts (especially with ButtersBB's recommendation of delegating out organizational duties like scheduling/tech/volunteers/venue/etc).

Lag.Com

2014-07-15 01:23:02 am

sda loyalist

Not sure what to say about all this.

The organisation was nowhere near as good this year for already mentioned problems. I trust Poxnor to either improve between now and the next event he wants to hold or decide that he simply doesn't have enough time to do it. The problems this year are forgiveable.

I've been a firm supporter in these smaller community meetups ever since somebody thought up the idea. I've heard a little talk about how C4L should 'continue to grow' in order to serve the community; this is precisely the opposite of the community meetup idea. Multiple small meetups that raise relatively small amounts of money is just fine. Speedrunning is not a competition to raise the most amount of money, it's a side-effect of what we do.

Hosting the event in a completely different location isn't a solution, it's a replacement, and one that makes it even harder for the European crowd to attend.

I'm sad about how the event turned out this year, but this thread makes me sadder.

UraniumAnchor

2014-07-15 01:50:24 am

Not a walrus

Going to address a few specific points:

Quote from Poxwife:

COSTS
We agree that costs were higher than they should be this year, and if C4L happens again in the future, we will aim for the previously suggested limit of $325-350 for quad occupancy. Also, the price will be set 90 days in advance of the marathon. (Note: since the idea of a deposit was very unpopular, we won't be able to guarantee the price if there are late drops. We will try to build in a buffer to prepare for this, though.)

You should also consider the average price of transport. I'm willing to bet that getting to SLC is cheaper than either Vancouver or Edmonton for most folks interested in attending, plus there's the costs of passports and fewer potential issues with customs agents searching your computer (and for those not in the know, that's happened to at LEAST two people that I know of).

Quote:

LOCATION
Certainly the convenience of attendees is a concern for us, but we would be setting ourselves up for failure if we did not host the event somewhere that we either live or have contacts that have already stepped up as willing to help. Therefore, the only 3 possibilities that make sense are Vancouver, Edmonton, and SLC (at Kari and Denton's house - thanks again for the offer!). We apologize to anyone for whom these cities are inconvenient, but please keep in mind that it is impossible to find one city that is convenient for every potential attendee.

See above regarding ease of transport.

Quote:

TWITCH CHAT
We will bring this issue to the charity, and we'll try to present as unbiased a view of what happens in the Twitch chat as possible. One point that hasn't really been addressed is that we will need more mods if we have both QuakeNet and Twitch chats happening, so we will expect those who pushed so vocally for a Twitch chat in this thread to step up and mod if the charity approves it. Smiley

While obviously twitch chat will need some moderators, I don't think the answer is "those of you who pushed for it should mod it", for a variety of reasons. From my experience with the *GDQs, I do get good tech-related suggestions from people I wouldn't trust to actually run them, but at the same time even if I *did* trust them to do so, wouldn't expect them to just because they suggested it.

For what it's worth I *hate* Twitch chat in large events but I wouldn't dream of shutting it off completely. Not any more, at least. No matter what you do most of your audience will be expecting it to exist in some form and they'll just leave if it's completely missing.

Quote:

C4L TWITCH CHANNEL
We are open to this idea; however we would need to secure at least partner status (and ideally sub status as well). If anyone would like to help us arrange this with Twitch, please let us know.

I can't speak for romscout but somehow I don't think this would be hard to arrange.

Quote:

PRIZE PLUGGING
We agree there wasn't enough plugging of prizes this year. Certainly it was easier at C4L2013, when the prizes were physically present, but even in the absence of the actual prizes, we could make it easier for commentators and hosts by making a printed list of prizes to consult during the run.

Something we're planning on adding to the tracker will be more information on upcoming incentives, runs, and prizes, so this will help that.

Quote:

COMPUTERS
With regard to the streaming machine, we obviously need to do more testing in advance. We did copy the setup that was suggested to us by the GDQ organizers, but it clearly didn't work, so we will start figuring out what went wrong soon.
With regard to the gaming PC: this was a problem. We are happy to accept suggestions about how to fix this, whether it be not having any PC games in the marathon, or designating an attendee to provide the PC (and test it in advance!).

As mentioned before, if we have it in SLC it would be trivial for me to bring one of the SGDQ PCs to handle the task of either streaming or playing (I can't realistically bring both, but Vulajin did say he could bring one or the other), since they're just staying in storage for most of the year. It's another point in SLC's favor. Having taken Amtrak from Denver to SLC in the past, it's actually possible and realistic for me to take a PC as a carry-on item so I can keep it in my view at all times and make sure it's loaded in a way where it won't tip over, unlike a plane where it's basically guaranteed to do at least 20 tumbles on its way through the checked luggage system. Or if anybody wants to fly out to Denver and then drive the rest of the rest of the way to SLC with me (I could probably take two people doing this), then carrying it in my car would make it even safer.

Going to address a few specific points:

[quote="Poxwife"]
[b]COSTS[/b]
We agree that costs were higher than they should be this year, and if C4L happens again in the future, we will aim for the previously suggested limit of $325-350 for quad occupancy. Also, the price will be set 90 days in advance of the marathon. (Note: since the idea of a deposit was very unpopular, we won't be able to guarantee the price if there are late drops. We will try to build in a buffer to prepare for this, though.)[/quote]

You should also consider the average price of transport. I'm willing to bet that getting to SLC is cheaper than either Vancouver or Edmonton for most folks interested in attending, plus there's the costs of passports and fewer potential issues with customs agents searching your computer (and for those not in the know, that's happened to at LEAST two people that I know of).

[quote]
[b]LOCATION[/b]
Certainly the convenience of attendees is a concern for us, but we would be setting ourselves up for failure if we did not host the event somewhere that we either live or have contacts that have already stepped up as willing to help. Therefore, the only 3 possibilities that make sense are Vancouver, Edmonton, and SLC (at Kari and Denton's house - thanks again for the offer!). We apologize to anyone for whom these cities are inconvenient, but please keep in mind that it is impossible to find one city that is convenient for every potential attendee.[/quote]

See above regarding ease of transport.

[quote][b]TWITCH CHAT[/b]
We will bring this issue to the charity, and we'll try to present as unbiased a view of what happens in the Twitch chat as possible. One point that hasn't really been addressed is that we will need more mods if we have both QuakeNet and Twitch chats happening, so we will expect those who pushed so vocally for a Twitch chat in this thread to step up and mod if the charity approves it. :)[/quote]

While obviously twitch chat will need some moderators, I don't think the answer is "those of you who pushed for it should mod it", for a variety of reasons. From my experience with the *GDQs, I do get good tech-related suggestions from people I wouldn't trust to actually run them, but at the same time even if I *did* trust them to do so, wouldn't expect them to just because they suggested it.

For what it's worth I *hate* Twitch chat in large events but I wouldn't dream of shutting it off completely. Not any more, at least. No matter what you do most of your audience will be expecting it to exist in some form and they'll just leave if it's completely missing.

[quote][b]C4L TWITCH CHANNEL[/b]
We are open to this idea; however we would need to secure at least partner status (and ideally sub status as well). If anyone would like to help us arrange this with Twitch, please let us know.[/quote]

I can't speak for romscout but somehow I don't think this would be hard to arrange.

[quote][b]PRIZE PLUGGING[/b]
We agree there wasn't enough plugging of prizes this year. Certainly it was easier at C4L2013, when the prizes were physically present, but even in the absence of the actual prizes, we could make it easier for commentators and hosts by making a printed list of prizes to consult during the run.[/quote]

Something we're planning on adding to the tracker will be more information on upcoming incentives, runs, and prizes, so this will help that.

[quote][b]COMPUTERS[/b]
With regard to the streaming machine, we obviously need to do more testing in advance. We did copy the setup that was suggested to us by the GDQ organizers, but it clearly didn't work, so we will start figuring out what went wrong soon.
With regard to the gaming PC: this was a problem. We are happy to accept suggestions about how to fix this, whether it be not having any PC games in the marathon, or designating an attendee to provide the PC (and test it in advance!).[/quote]

As mentioned before, if we have it in SLC it would be trivial for me to bring one of the SGDQ PCs to handle the task of either streaming or playing (I can't realistically bring both, but Vulajin did say he could bring one or the other), since they're just staying in storage for most of the year. It's another point in SLC's favor. Having taken Amtrak from Denver to SLC in the past, it's actually possible and realistic for me to take a PC as a carry-on item so I can keep it in my view at all times and make sure it's loaded in a way where it won't tip over, unlike a plane where it's basically guaranteed to do at least 20 tumbles on its way through the checked luggage system. Or if anybody wants to fly out to Denver and then drive the rest of the rest of the way to SLC with me (I could probably take two people doing this), then carrying it in my car would make it even safer.

MetaSigma

2014-07-15 05:27:04 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Quote from puwexil:

This is hard for me as I highly respect everyone involved here and know that we're all committed to putting on the best marathon we can, both for the RPG speedrun community and for charity. After reading through this thread again though, I'm still not feeling confident that the organizational problems this year's marathon had that held it back (especially with regards to location/costs and open/regular communication) will be fully resolved by next year.

As it stands right now, I agree with the above posts (especially with ButtersBB's recommendation of delegating out organizational duties like scheduling/tech/volunteers/venue/etc).

This pretty much sums up my thoughts at this point as well. Agreed

An example to me in this instance is...if I did this with my business or a business that I'm running, would the public(Community in this instance) have trust in me to make the decisions to fix this given I've yet to address the overarching concern of leadership? NO ONE is blaming you for having something as massive as a Masters Degree on your plate and I'm certain they all understand how much time it takes to even get one. The problem is they're concerned with is that BECAUSE of how much time it takes that you may have more on your plate than you can handle by yourself.

[quote="puwexil"]This is hard for me as I highly respect everyone involved here and know that we're all committed to putting on the best marathon we can, both for the RPG speedrun community and for charity.  After reading through this thread again though, I'm still not feeling confident that the organizational problems this year's marathon had that held it back (especially with regards to location/costs and open/regular communication) will be fully resolved by next year.

As it stands right now, I agree with the above posts (especially with ButtersBB's recommendation of delegating out organizational duties like scheduling/tech/volunteers/venue/etc).[/quote]

This pretty much sums up my thoughts at this point as well. Agreed

An example to me in this instance is...if I did this with my business or a business that I'm running, would the public(Community in this instance) have trust in me to make the decisions to fix this given I've yet to address the overarching concern of leadership? NO ONE is blaming you for having something as massive as a Masters Degree on your plate and I'm certain they all understand how much time it takes to even get one. The problem is they're concerned with is that BECAUSE of how much time it takes that you may have more on your plate than you can handle by yourself.