Braid

2013-03-27 11:54:10 am

At killing boss you also can start fall simultaneous with fall of chandelier. It might save yet 0,5-1 seconds.
---
It was really nice goomba-jump at 3-4! thumbsup

I never thought about it.

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-03-28 11:41:02 am

2013-03-28 11:14:58 am

Wow !! I just made Tim teleport somehow !

Also, stage 6-7 skip works quite well.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:47:11 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:46:51 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:29:42 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:23:07 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:22:46 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:22:26 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 12:22:18 pm

2013-03-28 11:51:56 am

Actually nothing special in this Tim teleport. I thought you found something useful... It is usual effect for green fluid.
For example the same teleport in 6-6:

But anyway awesome ring skip in 6-7!! I tried this skip a lot (without tas) but always had fail.
---
Btw for 6-7 also try to test one more skip:

May be is possible to cancel ring in the jump and survive!?

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-03-28 01:06:43 pm

2013-03-28 01:00:58 pm

Quote from Archanfel:

Actually nothing special in this Tim teleport. I thought you found something useful... It is usual effect for green fluid.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that. I don't quite understand how does it work. So I guess it couldn't be used anywhere to save time ?

Quote from Archanfel:

May be is possible to cancel ring in the jump and survive!?

I will try tomorrow, but from your video it is unlikely, because even if I reach the top, I have no velocity and I still have to go away. Maybe I can put the ring there...?

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-03-30 03:53:12 am

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 04:06:58 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:57:43 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:51:00 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:50:42 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:50:31 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:50:22 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 03:50:11 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 02:11:33 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-28 01:27:49 pm

2013-03-28 01:14:51 pm

About teleport - I not know where it can be useful. Most likely nowhere.
~~But may be... at room 3-8 for speed run mode only (and only in case if "R+FR" route for last piece is faster than normal upper path).~~
---
About skip#2. May be it impossible, but at least it very close. Sometimes TAS able to do impossible Wink

So it worth to test.
+I think bullets can have +/- 1-2 frames different as well as goomba in 4-2.
++Not forget to test ladder-glitch-jump in case if you will reach top.
---
Make also a test of another potential skip for room 3-8:

Idea is to climb up on the green platform during rewind (before getting key).
If it possible probably it can give us enough time to get second piece before path will be blocked...

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-03-29 07:42:19 am

2013-03-29 05:26:43 am

About 6-7 skip#2, I managed to land on the upper ground the moment I was hit by the fireball. However, I had to position the ring perfectly in the center of the green tube.
I didn't try for too long, so I cannot tell yet if it is possible or not.

Nice idea for the 3-8 skip! I will try asap.

EDIT: Argh, I improved 2-1 by 2 seconds, but when inserted it in the main run, it desyncs at 2-4 !

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 09:58:48 am

2013-03-29 09:15:06 am

Quote from keylie:

EDIT: Argh, I improved 2-1 by 2 seconds, but when inserted it in the main run, it desyncs at 2-4 !

Wow, two seconds for 2-1 it very a lot!!
Btw, what about improving of beginning 2-2? Previously you said that it is not optimal too.

Quote from keylie:

Well, I will go back to every stage anyway to save some frames here and there.

Ok, it is now clear. + Thanks for interesting info about ladders Smiley

+For World 2 I also thought about room 2-2-Bis (for speed run mode) - what if to do additional displacement of jigsaw and "create" new corner for corner-glitch on back way?
Anyway we need wait goomba here, but may be new additional corner can give benefit somehow...
---
And good luck with attempting skips. For 3-8 try different jumps closer to wall, may be lack of space can help to push him up?

keylie

2013-03-29 09:39:27 am

Well, I will go back to every stage anyway to save some frames here and there.
For example, I only realise now that it is faster when climbing down a ladder to jump on the ladder to avoid the ladder glitch.
Also, when climbing up a ladder, you can hit the jump button to land on the platform, then the next frame the other jump button to start jumping immediately. In that way the windows version has some advantages.

Archanfel

2013-03-29 11:48:44 am

Once again about room 6-6.
I think that there is a more faster transition between 1st an 2nd puzzle pieces:

Idea is to skip using of of the first lever in the second time. It can be done if before moving to the 1st piece we put ring at lowering platform (this platform should not reach to top point).
After get 1st pice using "R+FW" trick. Meanwhile second platform (yellow arrow) will already can pass under lowering platform and so Tim (Red arrows) can cancel ring and go directly to ladder.

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-03-29 12:27:50 pm

2013-03-29 12:24:59 pm

Good news:

Some improvements:
- If I can make the jump on the left most part, I may have the time to take the first puzzle piece
- I can use the trick again on the right to go up instead of taking the ladder.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-03-30 05:35:09 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 01:32:36 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:56:58 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:41:26 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:35:45 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:35:30 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:35:14 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-29 12:33:00 pm

2013-03-29 12:29:56 pm

You can get first puzzle piece and then rewind and use air-walk-glitch-jump (from former room 3-4) to get the key. And by this way you easily will get both pieces!
It was a part of plan for this skip Grin

---
Edit: Ok, ok you got both pieces even without using air-walk glitch. But anyway it was pleasant to have this "plan B" Smiley

keylie

2013-03-30 04:27:28 pm

World 3 is up:

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-03-31 03:02:29 am

Archanfel: 2013-03-31 03:00:56 am

Archanfel: 2013-03-31 03:00:38 am

2013-03-31 02:33:51 am

I noticed you already started World 4. And just wanted to say "Be very careful with 4-7, optimal route for this room is pretty tricky."
I mean that the last variant of route for this room is not yet close to optimal.
For TAS is possible to do it faster. There is one interesting method of improvement which involve sweet goomba-corner-glitch:

-Open lock.
-Rewind-back exactly to the point goomba-corner-glitch (start of my video)
-Rewind-forward => Rewind-zero + death.
-Rewind-forward and open the lock

To being able to use this trick obviously we should have enough time to open lock before goomba reach glitch-corner. Fortunately, is possible to save this additional time after first piece - if instead of rewinding to the ladder - use rewind only to the lever and then walk to ladder and there getting key back:

This way after getting first piece we can rewind additional distance (back to the lever) and it give us enough time to open lock before goomba reach corner.
---

Quote from clementgallet:

Stage 4-2 done

Skip with upper path was successful or fail? (i can't watch .wtf files)

I noticed you already started World 4. And just wanted to say "Be very careful with 4-7, optimal route for this room is pretty tricky."
I mean that the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC-xO7G73b8]last variant of route[/url] for this room is not yet close to optimal.
For TAS is possible to do it faster. There is one interesting method of improvement which involve sweet goomba-corner-glitch:
[hidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2oX6mP54Kc[/hidden]
-Open lock.
-Rewind-back exactly to the point goomba-corner-glitch (start of my video)
-Rewind-forward => Rewind-zero + death. 
-Rewind-forward and open the lock

To being able to use this trick obviously we should have enough time to open lock before goomba reach glitch-corner. Fortunately, is possible to save this additional time after first piece - if instead of rewinding to the ladder - use rewind only to the lever and then walk to ladder and there getting key back:[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/03/4f5c3b10ad9cca4218e442a9aeb40ea1.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]This way after getting first piece we can rewind additional distance (back to the lever) and it give us enough time to open lock before goomba reach corner.
---
[quote="clementgallet"]Stage 4-2 done[/quote]Skip with upper path was successful or fail? (i can't watch .wtf files)

keylie

2013-03-31 03:10:11 am

Quote from Archanfel:

Skip with upper path was successful or fail? (i can't watch .wtf files)

Failed

But I will try to write a macro to test for large set of jumps.

In this world, I won't save much time compared to the normal speedrun (except for the rabbit skip in 4-5).
I found another improvement in 4-5(2) where I was able to not rewind to get the green goomba pass the three plants. This way, after getting the second puzzle piece, I could rewind to the exit door.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 04:39:13 am

Archanfel: 2013-03-31 12:00:29 pm

Archanfel: 2013-03-31 12:00:19 pm

2013-03-31 03:27:35 am

Quote from keylie:

In this world, I won't save much time compared to the normal speedrun (except for the rabbit skip in 4-5). I found another improvement in 4-5(2) where I was able to not rewind to get the green goomba pass the three plants. This way, after getting the second puzzle piece, I could rewind to the exit door.

It is good about 4-5, i expected something like that for this room.
Also i thought that may be at 4-6(1) for TAS is possible to broke green flower cycle before the lock?

I hate this flower Angry

Edit: Thanks that you beat it Smiley

---
Slightly better tactic for the second lair boss fight:

(1st chandelier = 3 hits)

+Here for TAS probably also worth to get puzzle piece by using shadow clone.

keylie

2013-04-01 01:12:50 am

World 4 is up:

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:28:45 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:22:04 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:20:58 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:17:01 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:16:31 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 09:15:30 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 06:23:10 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 06:23:07 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 06:20:58 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 04:53:05 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-01 04:52:48 am

2013-04-01 04:33:38 am

Quote from keylie:

World 4 is up

A few questions about World 4:

-At end of 4-2 seems that you used not best possible corner glitch.
May be i wrong, but i always thought that this corner (attached) is the best.
---
-Did you tried to use warp-exit for 4-5?

4-5(1) => 4-6 (re-exit) => 4-5(2) => cloud => 4-6
Probably it can be a bit faster than rewind?

Or even more insane sequence:
4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6
Get first piece with rabbit while goomba is walking. Imho it very promising sequence.

---
-For 4-7 while waiting goomba probably worth to stop time - it will allow to make rewind to the lever a bit faster.

-And just for curiosity, why this time no cloud exit at the end of world as usual? Is it preparation for speedrun mode?

-+For speed run mode again for 4-7 - not forget to test climbing on ladder before opening lock.

[quote="keylie"]World 4 is up[/quote]A few questions about World 4:

-At end of 4-2 seems that you used not best possible corner glitch.
May be i wrong, but i always thought that this corner (attached) is the best.
---
-Did you tried to use warp-exit for 4-5?

4-5(1) => 4-6 (re-exit) => 4-5(2) => cloud => 4-6
Probably it can be a bit faster than rewind?

[i]Or even more insane sequence:
4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6
Get first piece with rabbit while goomba is walking. Imho it very promising sequence.[/i]

---
-For 4-7 while waiting goomba probably worth to stop time - it will allow to make rewind to the lever a bit faster.[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/04/edb43f81060f981ff0d394396fa6b7ef.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]
-And just for curiosity, why this time no cloud exit at the end of world as usual? Is it preparation for speedrun mode?

-+For speed run mode again for 4-7 - not forget to test climbing on ladder before opening lock.[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/04/caa3a58c90c96d58bc8de6b462dffb92.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]

Attachment:

4-2 last corner (for TAS).avi

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-04-02 03:10:42 am

2013-04-02 03:09:58 am

Quote from Archanfel:

-At end of 4-2 seems that you used not best possible corner glitch.

Oh, I didn't try this corner.

Quote from Archanfel:

4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6
Get first piece with rabbit while goomba is walking. Imho it very promising sequence.

What about having a goomba pass the plants on my first way ? Even if we don't see the plants, they should have a periodic pattern so that they should go down on specific positions in the left part of the stage ?

Quote from Archanfel:

For 4-7 while waiting goomba probably worth to stop time - it will allow to make rewind to the lever a bit faster.

You are totally right.

Quote from Archanfel:

And just for curiosity, why this time no cloud exit at the end of world as usual? Is it preparation for speedrun mode?

Yes.

Quote from Archanfel:

For speed run mode again for 4-7 - not forget to test climbing on ladder before opening lock.

You're right, it might save more time, as the goomba is walking toward me when getting the key back.

[quote="Archanfel"]-At end of 4-2 seems that you used not best possible corner glitch.[/quote]
Oh, I didn't try this corner.

[quote="Archanfel"]4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6
Get first piece with rabbit while goomba is walking. Imho it very promising sequence.[/quote]
What about having a goomba pass the plants on my first way ? Even if we don't see the plants, they should have a periodic pattern so that they should go down on specific positions in the left part of the stage ?

[quote="Archanfel"]For 4-7 while waiting goomba probably worth to stop time - it will allow to make rewind to the lever a bit faster.[/quote]
You are totally right.

[quote="Archanfel"]And just for curiosity, why this time no cloud exit at the end of world as usual? Is it preparation for speedrun mode?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote="Archanfel"]For speed run mode again for 4-7 - not forget to test climbing on ladder before opening lock.[/quote]
You're right, it might save more time, as the goomba is walking toward me when getting the key back.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 08:14:43 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 07:14:28 am

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 07:14:15 am

2013-04-02 07:08:13 am

Quote from keylie:

What about having a goomba pass the plants on my first way ? Even if we don't see the plants, they should have a periodic pattern so that they should go down on specific positions in the left part of the stage ?

Actually i studied this plants a long time ago --> The first flower which kill goomba is always at up position while Tim located at left half of level... So unfortunately it impossible Cry

But for mode with warps not forget to try this sequence

Quote from Archanfel:

4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6

Of course i not sure is it possible or not to get first piece with rabbit so fast and rewind to goomba before it will fall. And even in case if it is possible it can be or faster or slower. But it worth to test, as i said i think that it very promising Roll Eyes

---
+For room 5-5 make test route with warps too.

It approximately equal with classic. Most likely (90%) classic route is a bit faster. But without using tools i cant do final conclusion. I play too weak to make accurate comparison-test without mistakes. Anyway for good TAS planning additional test never can be bad Wink

---
...and also try warp for 5-2(2) too. It unlikely, but more tests is always good.

[quote="keylie"]What about having a goomba pass the plants on my first way ? Even if we don't see the plants, they should have a periodic pattern so that they should go down on specific positions in the left part of the stage ?[/quote]Actually i studied this plants a long time ago --> The first flower which kill goomba is always at up position while Tim located at left half of level... So unfortunately it impossible :'(

But for mode with warps not forget to try this sequence[quote="Archanfel"]4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6[/quote]Of course i not sure is it possible or not to get first piece with rabbit so fast and rewind to goomba before it will fall. And even in case if it is possible it can be or faster or slower. But it worth to test, as i said i think that it very promising ::)
---
+For room 5-5 make test route with warps too. [hidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuHFHc1PHEw[/hidden]It approximately equal with classic. Most likely (90%) classic route is a bit faster. But without using tools i cant do final conclusion. I play too weak to make accurate comparison-test without mistakes. Anyway for good TAS planning additional test never can be bad ;)
---
...and also try warp for 5-2(2) too. It unlikely, but more tests is always good.

keylie

Edit history:

keylie: 2013-04-02 08:42:19 am

2013-04-02 08:41:12 am

Quote from Archanfel:

Of course i not sure is it possible or not to get first piece with rabbit so fast and rewind to goomba before it will fall.

A quick test shows that yes, we have largely enough time. And when entering the level by the right door, the goomba pops at a very nice time Smiley

But I don't know yet if it is faster. If so, it could even be used for warpless version.

Quote from Archanfel:

...and also try warp for 5-2(2) too. It unlikely, but more tests is always good.

It might be, because when arriving at the second part of the stage, the goomba is really badly located (except if I can save several frames from the first part, but I don't know yet how.)

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-04-03 12:58:28 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:37:18 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:14:19 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:13:07 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:12:43 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:11:47 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 02:00:19 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 01:59:32 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 01:58:08 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 12:42:42 pm

Archanfel: 2013-04-02 10:20:37 am

2013-04-02 10:03:58 am

Quote from keylie:

If so, it could even be used for warpless version.

Agreed, it look even more promising.
And i sure it definitely will work! According my rough tests with this route i got results very close with your WIP. Something like this:

Room for real improvement is significant. For "4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6" I expect sub28 at least.
+In video i used very wrong end point of rewind. Good end point should be here:

Quote from keylie:

when arriving at the second part of the stage, the goomba is really badly located

True, this goomba is very unhandy located Angry

Not sure can it help or not, but as far as i remember - was one good position - from where Tim can reach both platforms.

[quote="keylie"]If so, it could even be used for warpless version. [/quote]Agreed, it look even more promising.
And i sure it definitely will work! According my rough tests with this route i got results very close with your WIP. Something like this:[hidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSGzdhy8wAA[/hidden]Room for real improvement is significant. For "4-5(just walk) => 4-6(re-exit) => 4-5(1->2) => cloud => 4-6" I expect sub28 at least.
+In video i used very wrong end point of rewind. Good end point should be here:[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/04/3d5e1df687068cae3a981e2b40fb93d7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[/hidden][quote="keylie"]when arriving at the second part of the stage, the goomba is really badly located[/quote]True, this goomba is very unhandy located >:( Not sure can it help or not, but as far as i remember - was one good position - from where Tim can reach both platforms.[hidden][URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/04/c22b188397f9895e79e9573e6865ddef.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/hidden]

P-why

2013-04-03 02:04:37 am

I see some nice tricks here I must try ^_^
For the key+elevator in world 6 I thought it was impossible to get 3 puzzle pieces in one passage but it seems it is :O
I'm still working on getting a WR in the time attack mode of the game (currently I got 27:33 IGT), thanks to new glitches and routes I think it's possible to get sub 26... but I don't have the level since I started running the game only 2 weeks ago...
Once again it's cool to see people working on Braid, esp the TAS which I can't wait to watch completely ^_^

keylie

2013-04-03 02:28:51 am

Crappy 5-2, crappy goomba...

P-why

2013-04-03 04:17:44 am

I'm sure you can get it, with a better timing on the last jump maybe, and/or with a better corner boost next to the lever... I hope you can :O

Tim

2013-04-03 04:29:10 am

Quote from P-why:

I'm still working on getting a WR in the time attack mode of the game (currently I got 27:33 IGT), thanks to new glitches and routes I think it's possible to get sub 26...

Whoha! Sub26 is very good goal for SS. Good luck.
@palfo
Seems you finally find a worthy rival! Be careful, your WR in danger Tongue

@keylie and Archanfel
All yours routes and tricks are just amazing. Most of them are totally beyond my understanding Shocked

It will be one of the best TAS.
P.S. Good luck with ugly goomba at 5-2. I hope you will catch him somehow.