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toxicate: 2009-09-22 08:07:15 am
Hi there,

as I was browsing through Youtube I saw this amazing speedrun of a guy running Braid on XBox within 29:22. I thought that it would be as well possible to do this on PC, but it isn't. This is due to the fact that the PC version lacks the ladder glitch and bunnyhops. Nevertheless I think a run under 32 minutes will be the least, one can do. Since this is my first attempt in doing this (as I am only watching SDA for many many years now) I would like to list the times of the different world and look for optimizations within the paths to estimate the runtime which can be achieved in a single segmented run.

You are all welcome to contribute, because I figured that many of you like this game very much. I will post my times as soon as possible - you are of course welcome to post your times.

Concerning timing: Of course there is the possibility of choosing the built in speed running option, but this will in fact take a lot of time from you, since one always has to start from the beginning. Therefore I figured, that it is very convenient to take a stopwatch and start it when you enter the first door in the corresponding world.

I'm also checking the run times of the run i saw on youtube for the different worlds, so there is a comparison between the times of XBox and PC version. There are some strange things going on in the timing of clock. In some scenes there are some big jumps between the time (from 12 to 15 minutes for example). I assume the so called "time" is just a compilation of best time levels. Nevertheless it gives an idea of what the time should be.

W-L    Time        R    Xbox        Difference
=================================
2-1    -:--:--    -    0:44:77    -:--:--
2-2    -:--:--    -    0:32:63    -:--:--
2-3    -:--:--    -    0:20:03    -:--:--
2-4    -:--:--    -    0:55:35    -:--:--
=================================
3-1    -:--:--    -    0:05:52    -:--:--
3-2    -:--:--    -    0:14:85    -:--:--
3-3    -:--:--    -    0:24:20    -:--:--
3-4    -:--:--    -    0:38:81    -:--:--
3-5    -:--:--    -    0:50:17    -:--:--
3-6    -:--:--    -    1:17:87    -:--:--
3-7    -:--:--    -    0:21:26    -:--:--
3-8    -:--:--    -    1:26:41    -:--:--
=================================
4-1    -:--:--    -    0:07:32    -:--:--
4-2    -:--:--    -    0:31:84    -:--:--
4-3    -:--:--    -    0:28:36    -:--:--
4-4    -:--:--    -    0:33:65    -:--:--
4-5    -:--:--    -    0:47:81    -:--:--
4-6    -:--:--    -    0:35:79    -:--:--
4-7    -:--:--    -    0:50:06    -:--:--
=================================
5-1    -:--:--    -    0:05:18    -:--:--
5-2    -:--:--    -    0:28:24    -:--:--
5-3    -:--:--    -    0:27:46    -:--:--
5-4    -:--:--    -    0:33:19    -:--:--
5-5    -:--:--    -    1:02:58    -:--:--
5-6    -:--:--    -    0:43:51    -:--:--
5-7    -:--:--    -    0:16:99    -:--:--
=================================
6-1    -:--:--    -    0:04:73    -:--:--
6-2    -:--:--    -    0:30:95    -:--:--
6-3    -:--:--    -    0:37:13    -:--:--
6-4    -:--:--    -    1:47:31    -:--:--
6-5    -:--:--    -    1:15:58    -:--:--
6-6    -:--:--    -    2:02:74    -:--:--
6-7    -:--:--    -    1:01:64    -:--:--
=================================
1-4    -:--:--    -    0:04:82    -:--:--
1-3    -:--:--    -    0:17:77    -:--:--
1-2    -:--:--    -    0:17:89    -:--:--
1-1    -:--:--    -    3:45:78    -:--:--
=================================
E      -:--:--      -    0:36:66    -:--:--
=================================
GT    -:--:--      -    27:46:85  -:--:--
=================================
Thread title:  
If we were you, we would quit now.
This is something I recorded and posted in the Xbox thread a few months ago:
Braid - Corner Glitch:

It would require some skill and luck to use it effectively, but it is at least some kind of speed increase to work with.
Edit history:
toxicate: 2009-09-23 09:51:22 am
The corner glitch will also work on the PC version, but as you said it sometimes i kind of random or needs a lot of luck and skill to make use of it. Making the route depend on the glitch will kill the run in a single segment. If we can do a segmented run it is no problem to use the glitch to get the extra speed. I've found some places where to use the glitch just to get some milliseconds.

By the way, the corner glitch of course doesn't only apply to the "feet"-corner ... I found out that if you hit a corner with the head just with the right angle and speed and timing (wow) you'll be able to get the same boost.
we have lift off
Your grand total is under 28 minutes? I know the guy doing the X-Box version of this speedrun thought that the 29minute run could be beaten by a fair bit but to get under 28 minutes on the PC seems very fast. What will you aim for in a single-segment?

Good luck with this, will be good to watch.
@ridd3r the total time of the specific levels i posted are from the video i took from youtube, which is not my run but the fastest i could get my hands on from the xbox. The discrepancy to the 28:22 from the completion time are due to the running you have to do from the starting point to the house, and running through the house, completing puzzles and climbing up the ladder to the roof to get to the first world. The pure runtime in the levels is sub 28 on the xbox version if you only (!) take the time from the levels.
The run on PC will lose a lot of time in world 5 because the ladder glitch will be absent and some levels will take time to complete without it. First aim would be to get under 30 minutes with the pure level times. I think the same level time can be achieved because some of the routes the guy was using are pretty 'slow' and i found other routes that could be used, e.g. in World 6. Using the corner glitch will give some possibilities to get some faster alternative routes - but one should consider the danger of ruining the run because of not hitting the corner at the right angle, resulting in a huge waist of time.

At the moment I'm pretty pis*** with Win7 because everything is slow and braid will run slow on some smaller scenes which makes timing a little complicated. But soon i'll get a new pc which means i can get the timings right.
If we were you, we would quit now.
Quote from toxicate:
@ridd3r the total time of the specific levels i posted are from the video i took from youtube, which is not my run but the fastest i could get my hands on from the xbox. The discrepancy to the 28:22 from the completion time are due to the running you have to do from the starting point to the house, and running through the house, completing puzzles and climbing up the ladder to the roof to get to the first world. The pure runtime in the levels is sub 28 on the xbox version if you only (!) take the time from the levels.
The run on PC will lose a lot of time in world 5 because the ladder glitch will be absent and some levels will take time to complete without it. First aim would be to get under 30 minutes with the pure level times. I think the same level time can be achieved because some of the routes the guy was using are pretty 'slow' and i found other routes that could be used, e.g. in World 6. Using the corner glitch will give some possibilities to get some faster alternative routes - but one should consider the danger of ruining the run because of not hitting the corner at the right angle, resulting in a huge waist of time.

At the moment I'm pretty pis*** with Win7 because everything is slow and braid will run slow on some smaller scenes which makes timing a little complicated. But soon i'll get a new pc which means i can get the timings right.


Only use the corner glitch with per level segmentation. Otherwise, it isn't worth the time saved, because more than likely, someone will mess up at least 1 time during a per world segmentation or more. I like to see more refined level runs since this is a puzzle game.
Yes you are right. In a single segmented run I would do it anyway. The danger you speak of is the key issue. As I was trying to do the speedrun for the first time in the game to get the achievement - before even thinking to make this an official thing - giving a constant performance in this game is a really hard task, but that's the same in every game right?
The refinement of using new techniques in the levels is more appealing to the eye and the runner itsself :). That should be the aim. Doing the same copy of a run that someone did on the Xbox is a little bit boring. But some levels will not give you any chance of doing the route otherwise. That's why i need help of you guys to figure out better routes :D.
sda loyalist
'corner glitch'? I used that while playing the game normally. It's part of the game physics.
In principle you are right. The name dates back to the contribution that DemonStrate gave. Of course the corner thingy is just part of the game physics, but the ladderjump - which is also used in the xbox versions on speedruns - is also called ladder glitch :). But actually we don't want to stumble upon terminology and start getting some kick ass routes that safe some time in the run and are still save to do in a single segmented run.
So... is there no full PC time recorded yet ? For now I have a 30min45 and I know it can go down to 30min and something (still can't understand how it can be under 29min on XBox though) if everything went perfectly.

Quote from toxicate:
The run on PC will lose a lot of time in world 5 because the ladder glitch will be absent

Nope, I can get the same ladder jump on PC on level 5-4 and 3-5 as the youtube guy. The only thing I can't do is the rabbit kill on 5-3 either the bug is fixed either I can't reach that specific frame.

I'm interested in knowing what are other people time for the PC version of Braid.

Edit: I now have a 30min05... And know where my mistakes are. 29min, here I am !
Managed to get a 29min10 now (wouhouu). Waiting for my other comp (which has enough disk space to capture something and I'll up the run !
we have lift off
Good to see progress. So that 29:10 was not recorded? What final time are you aiming for?
Unfortunately I only have 3Gb left on my HDD, so it is not possible to record anything... especially since Braid slows down really easily on PC (recording with fraps would be so slow I would have to practice at this speed). I won't have a computer able to record that until february...
By the way, do you guys know of some good record software I could use ? I know about Fraps and GameCam. Fraps is good but heavy and if I rember well GameCam has a bad quality.

So yeah, this 29:10 is not recorded, I have a screen though ! But I guess this is not of any value nowadays on the  i n t e r n e t. If you still wanna check it, there you go [pic]. And yeah, I'm french (and yeah the time is about 1 min faster than my previous best !).
  Smiley

As for the final time I guess it can be around 28:20 (not very accurate though) :
- made some 2-sec-mistake.
- missed some important corners.
- missed the one-shot on the third world boss (was a straight three-shot).
- lost about 10 seconds at the last level when I realized my time was 1 min shorter than my best (you know, excitement and stuff).
- there is some better routes for Impassible foliage and Fickle companion that I dit not take (safer).
- did not do the rabbit-kill on 5-3 (guess it is not possible on PC ?).

Remember this is a full run so I runned every level with the safest route I knew I could do. A segmented run could be way under this time...
Hopefully SprintGod can tell us more about world ending times and what his estimation of a final time is. I know he's been playing it a bit.
we have lift off
Well demos are best if your PC is bad, but Braid doesn't let you record them along with many other games. As far as I know FRAPS is the best for playing with and giving good quality. Half an hour of footage at 800x600 will be around 12gig. Looks like you will have to wait for a better computer :[ . February isn't that far away though.
Procrastination Nation!
You can try optimizing your computer a bit, run CCleaner to free up a bunch fo space like internet caches, cookies, etc.

Also try uninstalling games and things you don't use anymore.  You can frequently free up at least a few GB.

If you really really need to buy an external (which you should anyways as it can be a backup for your computer).  They're kinda pricey compared to an internal HD but if you're strapped to upgrade it could work for a makeshift.
I could do that for sure, I have an external. But I first want to backup my data and unfortunately that external is currently not at my place...

Also I'm not sure this comp is fast enough to record a Braid run with Fraps. I already recorded some levels(*) and running while recording is a pain (very slow)... Will try it though.

* A bit away from speedrunning and a small spoiler too :
I was able to run through the last level (i.e. the one with the princess) and go to the last star's location without having any other. Which means without using any rewind-time/time-immune lever. This involves tricky corner glitches, the result is "fun" and you learn a lot about the game.
boss
Quote from Lv:
I already recorded some levels(*) and running while recording is a pain (very slow)... Will try it though.

You're probably recording to the same drive the game runs from. Recording to a different drive (dunno if recording to just a different partition will do) will fix this problem.
you can choose the record framerate in Fraps up to 60 and 100fps, that should be fast enough !
we have lift off
I'm guessing the problem is his computer can't handle recording at 30fps, let alone 60 or 100!
boss
I can record just about anything at 60fps on a 1.2ghz p4 with 512 ram and a really old graphics card. It has nothing to do with hardware if he has a similar, or better setup.
we have lift off
I have a 3.2Ghz amd athlon, 2 gig ram and an old gfx card (x1600 ati) and i can't record 30fps for max payne. Computer is like 3 years old and I have tried recording on different and same drives etc. nothing works so I have to use another computer. No idea how you manage 60fps with that setup.
boss
The absolute best setup would be this: record to a different drive than the one you've installed the game to (IIRC partitions won't do - it has to be a different drive). Also AFAIK recording to a different drive than the one with the OS installed helps too.

At least this solved my fraps problem. If you're really doing all that and it still doesn't work, then I really dunno what's wrong. Are you using the latest version of fraps?
we have lift off
Well I have 1 internal and 1 external drive. Game is installed along with OS on internal, recording to external doesn't work. With my laptop I have 2 internals, one with OS, other with game and which I record to and that works. If I try recording to external on that one I also get trouble, I figured it was just a case of needing a dual core processor as my laptop has dual core. It is possible that having 2 internal drives could fix it though, also given this one is 3 years old and yes fraps is up to date.
boss
I guess having two drives of the same type (I have a hunch that both have to be internal, though) fixes it then.
Thanks for the tips guys, unfortunately I do not have another internal drive I could record on... just an external one. I will try to record on this one ; if it does not work, try to run the game on the external and record on internal. Maybe I'll borrow some internal, anyway it will work one day.

But for the moment I am not yet happy with the run I did, I won't record anything over 29:00. I just finished a 28:56 so it can definately be better.

Smiley