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I know it was just recently released however the Devil May Cry series has always been a staple of speed running and this game is so much like Devil May Cry in so many ways I thought perhaps a discussion of properly speed running it may be in order.

Though the game just came out, so I don't know of any proper sequence breaks, but the games emphasis on skill could make it an interesting game to run...

Any thoughts?
Thread title:  
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Well there should definitely be two runs: New Game and then ILs with more powerful weapons/techniques. Panther Within is very useful for speed in the first few levels.
I think either segmented New Game+ on "Bayonetta Must Die" (as I call the mode above Hard) or just segmented New Game on Normal would make the most entertaining runs.
more keys then pablo escobar
this game is devil may cry. just crazier. same creators and such.
Edit history:
flicky: 2010-01-13 01:33:25 pm
$15 per rant/allegory
It's going to be a way off, but a speed run of this will be good fun to watch.

The only thing I've found so far that's speedy and will likely still be very fast when a run is made is when you fight the two serpents for the first time (the flying ones, on Chapter VI) if you pick up the heavy sword that drops from the enemies just before this, it really destroys the serpents. Using the charge (Kick) on them takes way a ton of their health. You can kill them in seconds.

Everything else I've seen so far isn't likely to be too much use. More efficient ways of killing things will be unearthed and I don't think people need to be told to buy stiletto.

Also, I'm doubting that PS3 will be good for speedrunning in its present state. It wouldn't make great viewing with the extended load times. Rumours are saying a patch may be released to fix it but rumours are rumours are rumours. A final point, while the game has an auto-save feature, it also has a standard saving function that you can save and load from that does not link with the auto-save system.

Those are my footnotes from playing so far.


Something completely un-useful: Luka's previous girlfriends are quite impressive...
Someone's already started a NG+ speed run. Not optimized, like in chapter 1 there's 2 verses she could have skipped, but it's a start.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hsypersakura2009#g/c/D4553774C0369770
Edit history:
MAS8705: 2010-01-14 12:39:06 am
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Quote from sshplur:
Someone's already started a NG+ speed run. Not optimized, like in chapter 1 there's 2 verses she could have skipped, but it's a start.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hsypersakura2009#g/c/D4553774C0369770


I'm going to take it that the tuba shooting the laser beams is something you get if you beat the game on non stop climax I think; it looks like a very effective weapon... I wonder if this individual would decide to submit if the run is done... I doubt it probably... I can probably see why the runner is doing non-stop climax, since there is no witch time that slows down time (i'm sure that doesn't affect the final time, who knows...)

I'm split though if this would be a SS (like the other DMC runs) or will be segmented due to its extended length...  Doubt it matters, but it will be easy to tell if there is segment manipulation (Perfect example: watch the end of Chapter one and the start of Chapter two... you can see that the halo count is about 60,000 apart...)  although once again, doubt it matters if there are IL Runs...
The weapon she's using requires you to raise 10 million halos (including those spent already) and then beat a secret boss. I haven't watched chapter 2 onwards yet, but she really needs to redo chapter 1 and skip those fights before it can be submitted, if she decides to (she's apparently #1 on the PS3 leader boards). That's an easy 10 something seconds right off the bat.

And yes, for NG+ IL runs keeping track of stats like halos wouldn't matter since what is important is that the runner has already acquired all weapons, accessories and maxed out the magic bar. Good thing is that the unlockable weapons, characters and accessories can be gotten with the cheat codes.

We need separate categories for each character, too. The one used in the videos is Zero, who runs and gains magic twice as fast as Bayonetta. Jeanne can't trigger Witch Time from dodging (won't matter if you're running on Infinite Climax), and apparently her Wicked Weaves are stronger and her dodges are slower.

I'm assuming the mission clock runs the same as in DMC, opening the inventory and cut scenes (not the QTE climax scenes) don't count, but it needs to be tested.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
This game has many verses to skip and speed tricks.

I wonder if it's worth it to even try on the "Angel Attack" game. Getting the gold lollis for free there could be very useful for bosses.

Anyways, some tricks.

1) There are some segments of gameplay you can skip by double jumping in panther form, such as the first statue "slowdown" puzzle. The panther makes it fine, but the crow makes it easier.

2) The ice skates and FIRE Durga IGNORE lava, flames, and flaming enemies. I wonder if the ice skates ignore ice as well???? This could be great for "pure platinum" runs

3) On Hard mode some fights with multiple regular enemies are traded for one tough enemy. Using a torture attack or spamming the instant wicked weave move would work greatly for a quicker kill than normal mode. ( Instant weave is back to forward + attack)

4) The 2 inspired you are supposed to fight in chapter 5 or 6 can be skipped by knocking down the gate. I discovered this when one shot a fireball and knocked it down himself. THere are  more fights than you may think that are skippable, such as the bridge segments.

5) For new game+, Bracelet of Time is a MUST! Witch time on command is great for the "golden" angels that don't allow for witch time.

6) KILGORE GLITCH! Using this simple to perform glitch destroys everything! Simply PPP (pause) spam kick button, and hit L2 JUST after starting to spam kick. Millions of rockets come out and rape the health bar of anything big enough to absorb the rockets.

7) Don't wait for spikes, just spam R2 all the way through them!
$15 per rant/allegory
Quote from Gojira345isDante:
6) KILGORE GLITCH! Using this simple to perform glitch destroys everything! Simply PPP (pause) spam kick button, and hit L2 JUST after starting to spam kick. Millions of rockets come out and rape the health bar of anything big enough to absorb the rockets.


Just want to clarify this. You need to have two weapon sets, one with Kilgore on feet and one without (Druga or guns or whichever). You start the combo (PPPPK or PPP-K) and if you time the weapon swap correctly (L2 or Left Trigger) instead of the normal rapid kicks -> wicked weave, Bayonetta will shoot the aforementioned Millions of rockets that come out and rape health bars. This glitch could be very useful in a Normal run (as well as a new game+). The LP pieces take very little time to get and this method gives you a ridiculous amount of Halos (Literal millions) IF in Witch Time while you do it. This will probably be something that would be essential in a speedrun.
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Quote from Gojira345isDante:
I wonder if it's worth it to even try on the "Angel Attack" game. Getting the gold lollis for free there could be very useful for bosses.


If I'm not mistaken, the "angel attack" mini game isn't taken into account for the final time of the speed run, so it wouldn't hurt to partake in the game and see for using it to get yourself items (that would otherwise cost halos) and whatever points isn't used can be used to get some halos too... 

In a new game+  and IL runs, this can be considered a waste of time (unless if you are replenishing any items that were used previously, but even so, you can still go to the gates of hell to buy any items needed if you have a stockpile of Halos laying around...)
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I forgot to mention.

The butterflies are a must buy, and also...

THere should probably be seperate categories for

System

CHaracter

Considering that Jeanne is different and more difficult to play with, while Liittle Zero is RIDICULOUS.

System for the sheer difference in loading times between the two. I know that a speed run counts the time in control, but this would help viewers choose how many loading screens they are going to watch.
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Bayonetta on the PS3 does have horrible load times, but I think that the times are still calculated the same... It would be nice though to give a fair forewarning that this is the PS3 they are going to run (I'm sorry, I'm more of a Xbox 360/Wii individual)

Character on the other hand, yea...  they do have slight differences, so character catagories maybe needed...
Edit history:
Psychochild: 2010-01-15 07:46:40 pm
Well, let's get my contribution to this thread out of the way:  In Chapter VI where Bayonetta first enters Paradiso you're greeted by two Fearless... monster things - If you just make a beeline for the Beloved wedged in the Tunnel, the two Fearless will despawn almost immediately and the Beloved Fight will start. 

Quote:
7) Don't wait for spikes, just spam R2 all the way through them!


Don't spam R2 all the way through spikes.  Panther Within through them!  Chapter VI's are easy to tear through, though Chapter X may require a good bit of practice to do so.

Quote:
Well there should definitely be two runs: New Game and then ILs with more powerful weapons/techniques. Panther Within is very useful for speed in the first few levels


Panther Within also breaks so much of those first few stages it's ridiculous - We're talking a beatable door/wall thing that never get the chance to spawn in Mission 1 and other minor issues persisting until you hit the bridge, Mission 2 dying trying to keep up with mid-stage loads on the PS3 version and Chapter VI which can actually glitch and kill a run attempt entirely because you went too fast resulting in the Beloved never spawning at the tunnel in the mid-way point of the stage (which seems great at first because you're not slowed down waiting for Cereza's ass until you clear the tunnel, get treated to a Verse Scoring screen showing the Beloved wedged in the doorway and then getting teleported back to the beginning of the tunnel and watching Cereza get crushed by some invisible baddie that you can't fight off for some -really- stupid reason).

I don't know if the 360 version has that, but I've run into it several times on the PS3 release and it makes me very, very sad.

Quote:
System for the sheer difference in loading times between the two. I know that a speed run counts the time in control, but this would help viewers choose how many loading screens they are going to watch.


No.  We have always had runs across platforms where one version may load faster and perform than the other one.  Bayonetta is no different.  Unless the PS3 version's issues make for a good number of exploitable speed run tactics that can't be exploited on the 360 platform (Or vice-versa) or the game's timer is affected by all these technical issues that may make it very difficult to track how fast a run actually is, the run should be tracked by Difficulty, Character, New Game/New Game + (Remember, players -can- start a fresh character on Hard or Non-Stop Climax difficulty, much like DMC3 and unlike DMC4), Rank (Pure Platinum is an entirely different beast than Any %) and Segmented vs. Single Segment. 

If the loading screens are an issue, tell your average viewer to suck it up and use the slider to fast-forward through them - There's no reason why we need to have two runs of identical qualities because one platform performs better and otherwise has no impact whatsoever on the clock.

Quote:
The butterflies are a must buy, and also...


I'm going to sound like a hypocrite, but on a fresh game if you're not confident enough to speed run the game without relying on things like the Butterfly Shield or the Yellow Lollipops, you should be practicing more (Though at the same time, the player can get Yellow Lollipops from Angel Attack if they're absolutely necessary - Is there a limit to how many items you can buy from Angel Attack like The Gates of Hell enforces on its Flutes?).  For a speed run I want to say the Moon of Kalaa-Mahaa would be much more appropriate - It interrupts enemy combos like -anything- Grace and Glory or Jeanne throw at you, it reflects projectiles back at enemies for significant damage which trivialize bosses like Fortitudo who banks heavily on Projectiles and can be looped into repeated fireballs (Which may be the fastest way to take him out on a fresh character), doesn't drain magic which could be better spent on Torture Attacks and it makes a number of attacks -much- easier to avoid like most -anything- Temperatia throws at you.  The only problem is unless you're going for a 100% run, you won't be able to afford that before Fortitudo.  Not to say that it's worthless if you can't get it before then, but it's probably by far the best accessory in the game from a fresh playthrough and it's not like anything else is really worthwhile that'll cut down lots of time.

Maybe the Evil Harvest Rosary?
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It's not a lack of skill to use the butterflies.

It's just that they are cheaper, easier to obtain early on and allow the player to activate witch time easier, or continue to combo a bosses weak point as it retaliates.

Unless, of course, the Moon of Kahla Maa or whatever does more damage than a good combo/Kilgore glitch. Haven't messed with it that much.
About buying stuff from Angel Attack, you can buy up to 99 of any item.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Evil Harvest Rosary is pretty much needed on Nonstop Infinite Climax. If you can't activate Witch Time, use an item that does something good at the expense of not providing you Witch Time.
Edit history:
sshplur: 2010-01-17 09:31:11 pm


Someone's already beaten Rodin in 36.93 seconds. Who wants to beat it? :p

Edit: about NG+ IL runs is I think we should use the Climax Bracelet and ignore the fact that times won't be recorded to the leader boards because of it. If the Climax Bracelet can help save time at all, we should use it.
could someone tell me how the hell the lost chapter is done in like 4 - 5 minutes by the top 2 people on the leaderboards??  Undecided

apparently all the verses were skipped somehow when you click on more details...



also why the fuck won't vandal hearts dl for me on xbla

and i have to go to school today  Angry
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I don't know, but I'd love to know the trick to skipping parts of the lost chapter.

Maybe you simply go back to the "start" area?
$15 per rant/allegory
Okee doke, this is kind of a minimal post as I don't know the exact timing for this and it may well be very common knowledge, but:

It's possible (with the sword at least) to use stilletto and combo it right into the rapid stabs (the 4th P) of the PPPPP combo. I'm not sure of the exact timing yet, but I'm pretty sure it can be done whenever. So far, all I can say is that if you do the stilletto and then time a flurry of P presses, it will just combo into eachother. I know something very similar was possible in DMC, so if any of you remember how to do that, I'm convinced it's probably the same. Either way, you can use this to stun bosses and do the flurry into a wicked weave. I've only used this on Balder and once on Jeanne. It takes about 60% of Balder's health off in one of his phases and about 30% of Jeanne's.
I've managed to execute this 4 or 5 times. Twice by accident and three times while trying, out of several attempts (25 or so). How useful it is on other enemies, I'm not sure, but on Balder it cuts the fight down a lot. 2 of these ends a phase on Normal.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I'm still more interested in skipping parts of the lost chapter.

Where's all the love for this game.

*goes back to play Bayonetta and ignore the board for days on end*
For justice.
Well, I found a Panther Within related trick in The Burning Ground for an IL or NG+ run. Basically, as the Panther, if you jump and then dodge out, you get this huge speed boost which is great for clearing gaps. Like, for example, the broken bridge. Normally, you'd have to enter Paradiso to get the hour glass to repair the bridge. However, it's possible to jump across. This is even more effective when combined with Crow Within.

Other places in which this is useful would be in the previous chapter when you have to engage Witch Time with those statues to activate that bridge to get to the Mini-boss of the level, among other places.
Edit history:
flicky: 2010-01-27 05:31:14 pm
$15 per rant/allegory
Ok, I'm going to a friend's house in a few days and we're planning on just playing through Bayonetta in a single segment on a normal new game for fun. It won't be too serious, but I decided to write out some notes for a mini speedrun and it ended up as a decent sized document with some stuff in it. I'm going to upload it somewhere and also dump it in the SDA Wiki page for bayonetta, however, it's in note form and not very in-depth so it may not be accepted there.  If there is space you can assume you're sprinting to the next verse and if a verse is missing then it means it was missable or an Alfheim.

Please please please tell me any ammendments you would make or any verifications, skips, more efficient enemy kills and route changes you can think of. I want this to evolve into a a really good document for reference during a run. Of course I will give all credit to whomever suggests things (you will see I already ninja editted Vardinator's suggestion in there, if you want me to change your name or anything, let me know). Likewise, if you edit the wiki page, feel free to give yourself credit. I will probably add a change log into the file and maybe convert it into a .txt. I didn't think it'd end up this big.

http://rapidshare.com/files/342124510/Bayonetta_Speed_notes..doc (Wtf, rapidshare is all I can think of ><)
http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Bayonetta Here it is stuffed into SDA wiki.

Note: I'm drawing a massive mental blank here. Is the Sweep -> Fist Wicked weave PPKP or PPPKP?
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Good news to all who has the PS3 version... Sega announced that they will be releasing a patch for the game to make the loading times better...

Only problem is that it is only announced in Japan at the moment, everyone else in the world are out of luck at the moment...