Adventures of Rad Gravity (NES)

Edit history:

ktwo: 2009-07-07 03:20:59 pm

2009-01-28 02:37:57 pm

I have played through this game a couple of times and I think I have developed basic strategies to also speedrun it. Actually doing it will however require much more practice in order to link it all together (and also require that my run for Cobra Triangle will be accepted, which would first require some verifiers to come forth, hint, hint...). A few very difficult spots exist (for example Kakos is bound to be a challenge to do fast in a single segment run, but I still have a few ideas left to explore). I'm willing to discuss the (wip) route, but only if people are interested enough in this game (it's a bit on the obscure side after all).

A very important factor for considering a run would be if the "transportation beacon glitch" is allowed. I'll explain. The transportation beacon allows you to return to the place where you threw it (a teleportation tool basically). It's possible to throw it inside walls and teleport into them (not easy, but should still be possible in real time with a few tries). If threwn in a wall confining the room, you can exit the screen which will result in warping to an adjacent room. Would this be considered leaving the game zone (out of bounds) ? The tas uses this glitch to create shortcuts in a few places, but I don't think it actually leaves any room in that way. The reason why I don't think it's possible to copy-paste the tas path is because it will always take a few tries before the glitch works (rules out some enemy-filled areas), it's somehow much harder to do the glitch to the right than to the left and last but not least because I suspect the tas not to be optimized in one area.

EDIT
----
This run is put on hold as far as I'm concerned. Pulling off the mentioned glitch proves to risky for a single segment as it is required several times towards the end of the game. This game does not seem to be suited for segmenting because you need to die in order to show the password (showing the password screen seems to be required for a segment to be valid at sda). I guess one could try without the glitch and go through all the tough areas, but it would prove to be a formidable challenge. If anyone should consider this game despite all this, I suggest a 100%-run as health would be a serious issue for an any%-run.

Thread title:

I have played through this game a couple of times and I think I have developed basic strategies to also speedrun it. Actually doing it will however require much more practice in order to link it all together (and also require that my run for Cobra Triangle will be accepted, which would first require some verifiers to come forth, hint, hint...). A few very difficult spots exist (for example Kakos is bound to be a challenge to do fast in a single segment run, but I still have a few ideas left to explore). I'm willing to discuss the (wip) route, but only if people are interested enough in this game (it's a bit on the obscure side after all).

A very important factor for considering a run would be if the "transportation beacon glitch" is allowed. I'll explain. The transportation beacon allows you to return to the place where you threw it (a teleportation tool basically). It's possible to throw it inside walls and teleport into them (not easy, but should still be possible in real time with a few tries). If threwn in a wall confining the room, you can exit the screen which will result in warping to an adjacent room. Would this be considered leaving the game zone (out of bounds) ? The tas uses this glitch to create shortcuts in a few places, but I don't think it actually leaves any room in that way. The reason why I don't think it's possible to copy-paste the tas path is because it will always take a few tries before the glitch works (rules out some enemy-filled areas), it's somehow much harder to do the glitch to the right than to the left and last but not least because I suspect the tas not to be optimized in one area.

EDIT
----
This run is put on hold as far as I'm concerned. Pulling off the mentioned glitch proves to risky for a single segment as it is required several times towards the end of the game. This game does not seem to be suited for segmenting because you need to die in order to show the password (showing the password screen seems to be required for a segment to be valid at sda). I guess one could try without the glitch and go through all the tough areas, but it would prove to be a formidable challenge. If anyone should consider this game despite all this, I suggest a 100%-run as health would be a serious issue for an any%-run.

andrewg

2009-01-29 02:06:31 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Almost every glitch is allowed by SDA now. I'm pretty sure they will allow that. (the out of bounds is no longer in effect)

65

2009-01-30 11:37:26 am

Yeah, except that OOB might result in a different category if you manage to skip lots of stuff with it.

GinTatsu

Edit history:

GinTatsu: 2015-08-08 02:07:36 am

2015-08-05 11:30:10 am

Rad... They have taken me...

I'm currently running this game and have mastered pulling off the teleporter glitch in most scenarios. There is one spot where BluBlu's TAS shows it being used in the beginning of Utopia I can't replicate [Figured it out]. Otherwise my run is pretty solid for sub-35. The biggest difficulty is performing a deathless run as Effluvia, Vernia, and Volcania have some dangerous instant death pitfalls. I will be posting video as soon as I can put together one worthy of watching.

GinTatsu

Edit history:

GinTatsu: 2015-08-06 11:49:11 pm

2015-08-05 11:33:04 am

Rad... They have taken me...

The strategy I have for Agathos was originally 3 mins but has been shaved to 2. Finding a consistent strat for Kakos and mastering zero grav movement is my current goal. [Success]

Just discovered an easy to replicate and consistent pattern to defeating Kakos in roughly a minute and a half. I'll post some sample vids as soon as I can acquire better capture hardware/software.

GinTatsu

2015-08-07 11:54:57 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

Update: Just finished a 100% single segment run with a time of 32:10, Kakos went down in 40 secs, 2 secs more than BluBlu's 38 second TAS fight.
Dying to get some videos made.

ktwo

2015-08-09 09:59:37 am

Ever since I abandoned the idea of speedrunning this game, I have been hoping someone else would pick it up. I'm very interested to see how you tackle the different challenges in this game. I'm looking forward to some videos once you have that part set up.

GinTatsu

2015-08-10 06:33:38 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

[May be a redundant thread but I can't find the specifics I'm looking for so I'm creating it.]

I'm solidifying and mapping out a route for The Adventures of Rad Gravity 100% and am curious about menu item overlapping/replacement.

In the archived run of A Link to the Past, certain items are skipped in favour of their late-game replacements (sword, shield ect.) I understand this is acceptable due to the final menu layout at game completion.

Similarly, in Rad Gravity there are two types of Bombs, which upon receiving the second replaces the first in the menu making the first form of Bomb unnecessary. Secondly in regards to Armour, there are 4 colour grades. In order of protective status and availability they are: Red (Base armour), Pink, Green, and White. Now if Green is collected before Pink, Pink is no longer present in it's location to pick up any more. Likewise, if White is collected before Pink and Green, they will both disappear from their levels.

My hope is to confirm that these parameters would be acceptable for a 100% Category.

[size="14"][May be a redundant thread but I can't find the specifics I'm looking for so I'm creating it.]

I'm solidifying and mapping out a route for The Adventures of Rad Gravity 100% and am curious about menu item overlapping/replacement.

In the archived run of A Link to the Past, certain items are skipped in favour of their late-game replacements (sword, shield ect.) I understand this is acceptable due to the final menu layout at game completion.

Similarly, in Rad Gravity there are two types of Bombs, which upon receiving the second replaces the first in the menu making the first form of Bomb unnecessary. Secondly in regards to Armour, there are 4 colour grades. In order of protective status and availability they are: Red (Base armour), Pink, Green, and White. Now if Green is collected before Pink, Pink is no longer present in it's location to pick up any more. Likewise, if White is collected before Pink and Green, they will both disappear from their levels.

My hope is to confirm that these parameters would be acceptable for a 100% Category.[/size]

puwexil

2015-08-11 11:11:11 am

Professional Second Banana

That sounds fine to me - like you said there's definite precedent for skipping upgrades that get obsoleted by later ones in Zelda-style adventure games.

GinTatsu

2015-08-11 12:01:54 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

Excellent! I figured as much but needed to confirm before I went ahead with the route. Thanks for the info! All that's left is to record a worthy run, quality test it, submit for verification and archive this bitty. No big deal. *grin*

GinTatsu

Edit history:

GinTatsu: 2015-08-11 01:21:50 pm

2015-08-11 12:57:06 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

Mapped a new route for 100% with item skips. (Sauria bomb, Turvia armour, also Odar armour) This has put the run closer to a 28 min average. I will be picking up a Dazzle DVC-100 this upcoming weekend as I play on NTSC cartridge/console so expect some samples on this thread next week.

There are essentially 4 very dangerous spots in my run.
1. Obviously Effluvia, getting the energy tank and to the bubble without a green guy attaching to you can be tricky.
2. Turvia, the Sea-doo jump to get the bone and energy then making it back in one fluid motion without a pause. Usually use a Drop Jump to get back across.
3. Vernia, the second half of the level requires a Drop Jump (falling from a tile above and jumping off the adjacent tile directly below) pulled off twice.
4. Volcania also has a risky Drop Jump after entering the underground from the right side of the level.

It may be worth noting that while the above mentioned tricks look impressive, safer more guaranteed movements can be performed in place (Except Effluvia, which is very much luck based, thankfully it's the second level) and will only add 5-10 seconds to the run where a death in those spots warrant a reset.

Mapped a new route for 100% with item skips. (Sauria bomb, Turvia armour, also Odar armour) This has put the run closer to a 28 min average. I will be picking up a Dazzle DVC-100 this upcoming weekend as I play on NTSC cartridge/console so expect some samples on this thread next week.

There are essentially 4 very dangerous spots in my run.
1. Obviously [b]Effluvia[/b], getting the energy tank and to the bubble without a green guy attaching to you can be tricky.
2. [b]Turvia[/b], the Sea-doo jump to get the bone and energy then making it back in one fluid motion without a pause. Usually use a Drop Jump to get back across.
3. [b]Vernia[/b], the second half of the level requires a Drop Jump (falling from a tile above and jumping off the adjacent tile directly below) pulled off twice.
4. [b]Volcania[/b] also has a risky Drop Jump after entering the underground from the right side of the level.

[i][u]It may be worth noting that while the above mentioned tricks look impressive, safer more guaranteed movements can be performed in place (Except Effluvia, which is very much luck based, thankfully it's the second level) and will only add 5-10 seconds to the run where a death in those spots warrant a reset.[/u][/i]

GinTatsu

2015-08-16 08:52:33 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

I am up and running and couldn't be more excited. I posted in Tech to get the DF for the game. As soon as that comes back I can send in the encoded quality test vid.
In the meantime I will be working on recording a deathless run for verification, doesn't need to be perfect but it has to be deathless.

Follow me on www.twitch.tv/gintatsu2 if you wanna catch some live practice and see some of my strats.

GinTatsu

2015-09-03 05:59:17 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

Took a little impromptu vacation but I'm back working on solidifying sub 27. In the meantime I highlighted a recording of a little teaser demo on my Twitch channel if you want to peep some of the strats I'm using. If you do, note however that Kakos does not typically go that bad. Usually after the first three hits when he launches a right facing missile, you'll destroy it, position to where the first three hit pattern started and repeat, that's how you score the 40 second fight. Dat RNG...

ktwo

2015-09-05 02:48:42 am

It's nice to finally see some of your gameplay! Honestly, this is looking great so far. So many tricks and skips that you seem to have mastered. It's clear that you have already put a great deal of effort into the routing so there isn't much I can add since it was so long time since I played this game. Just a few comments though:
- You can save a second or two in Vernia when picking up the first life pill. When on the sub, shoot the bird and then just run off on the right side. It's definitely faster than jumping off on the left side.
- You can teleport out of the room through the left wall as seen in screenshot 0 (Telos), and end up in the same place as you did with the "flying disc glitch". It seems like you have found a really good method for getting through walls with the teleport crystals, so I think it should be faster for you. By the way, can you describe how you manage to go through the walls so quickly? I didn't have a good setup for that.
- You can lock Agathos in position as seen in screenshot 1. Then you can just stand in place and only jump over the bullets. Not faster or anything, but it looks like you struggled a bit in that fight, so it might be something to try out and see if it makes it easier.

Attachments:

Adventures of Rad Gravity, The (U)-0.png

Adventures of Rad Gravity, The (U)-1.png

GinTatsu

2015-09-05 09:35:10 am

Rad... They have taken me...

Are those shots from BluBlu's 17 minute TAS? I got the Telos disc jump skip from a slightly longer TAS where it was still using the platform jump. Gonna practice that wall clip you mentioned cuz it'll change my low % run from 5 health bars to 3. ( Though getting past the Utopia boss with my method and 3 health requires a frame perfect skip with)
I'll have to practice the boat drop, I've tried going off the front before but wasn't timed well apparently.
As for teleport clipping it's actually really easy. When you are on a tile beside a wall simply have Rad duck when using the teleporter and it will go into the wall, the only catch is if you are pressed directly against the wall you are facing it won't work.
Locking Agathos in position on the floating platform is what I'm aiming for, when stationary he fires a shot roughly ever 5 seconds but when moving or locked in the raised platform "sweet spot" he will fire every 2 seconds roughly and expose his brain after the 7th shot. I move right and jump over his shot to the left as a form of timing for me. If you saw me get knocked off to the conveyors on the right I have to move far left by the door to reposition him into the sweet spot.

Are those shots from BluBlu's 17 minute TAS? I got the Telos disc jump skip from a slightly longer TAS where it was still using the platform jump. Gonna practice that wall clip you mentioned cuz it'll change my low % run from 5 health bars to 3. ( Though getting past the Utopia boss with my method and 3 health requires a frame perfect skip with)
I'll have to practice the boat drop, I've tried going off the front before but wasn't timed well apparently.
 As for teleport clipping it's actually really easy. When you are on a tile beside a wall simply have Rad duck when using the teleporter and it will go into the wall, the only catch is if you are pressed directly against the wall you are facing it won't work. 
Locking Agathos in position on the floating platform is what I'm aiming for, when stationary he fires a shot roughly ever 5 seconds but when moving or locked in the raised platform "sweet spot" he will fire every 2 seconds roughly and expose his brain after the 7th shot. I move right and jump over his shot to the left as a form of timing for me. If you saw me get knocked off to the conveyors on the right I have to move far left by the door to reposition him into the sweet spot.

GinTatsu

2015-09-05 10:19:23 am

Rad... They have taken me...

Oh wow, I just had to laugh and post this. I've been so caught up in finding intricate ways of using the Teleporter I never really stopped to consider the basics and was just schooled by a casual playthrough. In my run after getting the White Armour, I drop down, take spike damage and clip through the wall entering the door to get back to the top. Just watched this brilliant fellow simply leave his Teleporter at the top to start with and teleport out of the armour room. Simply genius!

GinTatsu

2015-09-06 01:51:28 am

Rad... They have taken me...

Dropping off the boat works like a charm, thanks! However, I can't seem to replicate the trick in the first screen shot.

Typically when a wall is on the edge of the screen, putting your teleporter into it will result in it either a) reappearing in your menu, or b) disappearing off-screen and having no effect when used. In Telos many floors are programmed not as seperate tiles, but as one 'hollow' piece causing the teleporter to fall through the floor to no effect as it has nothing to land on. This is the problem I'm having trying to reproduce the screenshot, no idea how Rad has gotten down one tile. I did however do a disc jump on the upper section to get over the left wall and hit the screen trigger and it indeed takes you to the next room, just got to figure out how to get in the floor. Is there any way of getting me a link of the source footage?

On a side note I've discovered the problem you may or may not be experiencing with the Teleporter, it doesn't work on the European version. I couldn't pull off the trick you attached on console so I booted up the European ROM, tried the Teleporter all over the place and couldn't get it into a single wall. This is because the Teleporter in the EU version appears partially overlapping Rad, while in NA it lands a few pixels in front of him. Also when I got to Volcania where you need to duck and Teleport through the break in the inside corner and into the door to the first Health Capsule, there were 4 tiles missing surrounding the door, allowing you to simply stand there and toss your Teleporter into the lava toward the door. Kinda kills the fun if you ask me.

Dropping off the boat works like a charm, thanks! However, I can't seem to replicate the trick in the first screen shot.

Typically when a wall is on the edge of the screen, putting your teleporter into it will result in it either a) reappearing in your menu, or b) disappearing off-screen and having no effect when used. In Telos many floors are programmed not as seperate tiles, but as one 'hollow' piece causing the teleporter to fall through the floor to no effect as it has nothing to land on. This is the problem I'm having trying to reproduce the screenshot, no idea how Rad has gotten down one tile. I did however do a disc jump on the upper section to get over the left wall and hit the screen trigger and it indeed takes you to the next room, just got to figure out how to get in the floor.   [u][b]Is there any way of getting me a link of the source footage?[/b][/u]

On a side note I've discovered the problem you may or may not be experiencing with the Teleporter, it doesn't work on the European version. I couldn't pull off the trick you attached on console so I booted up the European ROM, tried the Teleporter all over the place and couldn't get it into a single wall. This is because the Teleporter in the EU version appears partially overlapping Rad, while in NA it lands a few pixels in front of him. Also when I got to Volcania where you need to duck and Teleport through the break in the inside corner and into the door to the first Health Capsule, there were 4 tiles missing surrounding the door, allowing you to simply stand there and toss your Teleporter into the lava toward the door. Kinda kills the fun if you ask me.

ktwo

2015-09-06 03:49:14 am

I tried out the teleport in Telos again. I've always jumped frantically against the wall throwing crystals all over the place for the wall clips, so I haven't really thought about what it was exactly that made it work. I now made a recording and took a closer look at what was happening. It seems like the clip I do work with a different game mechanics than yours. After having removed all the excess movements, it boils down to this (see also the attachment):
1) Hug wall
2) Throw crystal
3) Jump straight up
4) On your way down, activate crystal teleportation (this is the critical point and it turns out that it's actually a very generous time window for this!)
5) You'll now stand slightly inside the floor
6) Turn around
7) Wall clip activated!

The time window for this is so big (something like 7-8 frames), that it's pretty much a guaranteed trick. It's funny that I still can't get your method to work though, but you're the one running this game, so don't worry about that!

What I meant about the Agathos screenshot is that you don't have to jump back and forth. Once you have Agathos in the right spot, you can just jump vertically up and down to dodge the bullets (they're pretty fast though, so this might be easier said than done?). When you know it's about to open the lid, just press A+B simultaneously and you'll both dodge the bullet and hit the brain thing.

It's funny about the crystal use around the white armor. What you found in the casual playthrough is actually how I always have done it. I don't know how I didn't react to that first. Anyways, the important thing is that you know about it now.

I tried out the teleport in Telos again. I've always jumped frantically against the wall throwing crystals all over the place for the wall clips, so I haven't really thought about what it was exactly that made it work. I now made a recording and took a closer look at what was happening. It seems like the clip I do work with a different game mechanics than yours. After having removed all the excess movements, it boils down to this (see also the attachment):
1) Hug wall
2) Throw crystal
3) Jump straight up
4) On your way down, activate crystal teleportation (this is the critical point and it turns out that it's actually a very generous time window for this!)
5) You'll now stand slightly inside the floor
6) Turn around
7) Wall clip activated!

The time window for this is so big (something like 7-8 frames), that it's pretty much a guaranteed trick. It's funny that I still can't get your method to work though, but you're the one running this game, so don't worry about that!

What I meant about the Agathos screenshot is that you don't have to jump back and forth. Once you have Agathos in the right spot, you can just jump vertically up and down to dodge the bullets (they're pretty fast though, so this might be easier said than done?). When you know it's about to open the lid, just press A+B simultaneously and you'll both dodge the bullet and hit the brain thing.

It's funny about the crystal use around the white armor. What you found in the casual playthrough is actually how I always have done it. I don't know how I didn't react to that first. Anyways, the important thing is that you know about it now.

Attachment:

Adventures of Rad Gravity, The (U)-0.fm2

GinTatsu

2015-09-06 12:22:12 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

I adopted my current strat of moving back and forth on the 3 tiles to dodge Agathos' shots because I find it easier to time than standing still. I will try the simultaneous A+B on the seventh shot to save myself having to drop down to avoid it and toss my bomb.

I'm having a hell of a time opening your file though, DL'd a file viewer program claiming to open FM2's but can't locate the program on my computer after it installed... Do I need to DL FCEUX, run the rom and open the video or something?! Just don't get it.

By the way, I assume you're emulating, but which version?

ktwo

2015-09-06 01:15:47 pm

To watch the movie, you need to download fceux (I use 2.1.4, but I'm pretty sure the newer ones are backwards compatible) and the rom (most web sites don't like links to roms, so you're on your own, but I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding a rom using any web search). I'm honestly a bit surprised that you came this far without practicing on emulator. It's a huge advantage to practice individual sections from save states to come up with the best strats.

If you can't get it to work or don't want to use emulators or something, I can upload the movie on youtube instead.

GinTatsu

2015-09-06 01:48:28 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

I thought as much. I was originally trying to watch it on the laptop. I do have both the North America and Europe versions of the ROM on my PC, my route was primarily planned and practiced on Emulator, (NA) ROM. This is how I discovered the differences between the Teleporter glitch when running the (EU) ROM. To me Rad feels like he 'floats' when jumping on the European version.

Is FCEUX the Emulator of choice within this community?

GinTatsu

2015-09-06 04:35:15 pm

Rad... They have taken me...

Sweet! Watched the vid and the trick works perfectly! Thanks for the tip 'cuz it saves me time in Sauria where I disc jump to skip the first section (which can be killer if it takes 5+ tries to get the disc out), I can now drop behind the dinosaur and clip into the floor.
With these new time saves it looks possible to sub 26 this run. My PB for a deathless single session is 27:40 and that's with a few movement hangups. When my USB NES Controller comes in I'm curious to tally up sum of best segments to see just how far 100% time can be pushed in a perfect run. Doesn't look like much more can be exploited in this game, getting pretty solid!