Yet Another OOT Run

2010-08-08 04:10:00 pm

Hey guys, New to the forum, but have been big on the work you all have done for quite some time now. I want to do my own speed run and was curious if my parameters made any sense. They are as follows:

Time starts when you hit begin after name creation
Time ends when screen shows "The End"
Main story only (completion of all dungeons and temples, castle, and any required mini dungeons)
No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed

Basically, i want to play the game it was intended to be played. I notice that all of the recorded times are either major or minor glitches and i would like to avoid that. My goal is to get a top time while playing through every required part of the game. While i am not implying i would have to complete every location in entirety, i am depicting a gameplay experience where the bare minimum is done to finish everything without having to glitch. (which would require completion of the tree, cavern, whale, forest, well, fire, caverns, etc. etc.) Has this been done? if it has please point me in the right direction for time comparison. If not, would it be in consideration for a record? Thanks guys

Thread title:

Hey guys, New to the forum, but have been big on the work you all have done for quite some time now. I want to do my own speed run and was curious if my parameters made any sense. They are as follows:

[list]
[li]Time starts when you hit begin after name creation[/li]
[li]Time ends when screen shows "The End"[/li]
[li]Main story only (completion of all dungeons and temples, castle, and any required mini dungeons)[/li]
[li]No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed[/li]
[/list]

Basically, i want to play the game it was intended to be played. I notice that all of the recorded times are either major or minor glitches and i would like to avoid that. My goal is to get a top time while playing through every required part of the game. While i am not implying i would have to complete every location in entirety, i am depicting a gameplay experience where the bare minimum is done to finish everything without having to glitch. (which would require completion of the tree, cavern, whale, forest, well, fire, caverns, etc. etc.) Has this been done? if it has please point me in the right direction for time comparison. If not, would it be in consideration for a record? Thanks guys

Rikki

2010-08-08 04:49:38 pm

Go watch TSA's sub 5 from 2005 on archive.org if you're interested in that. The thing is that the people who have really been doing runs and getting great at the game are bored of playing it normally. They get their fun out of finding as many time-savers as possible, breaking the game. It's nice that you want to do a no-glitch run, but the thing is that the glitches are all timesavers and at some point it's just stupid to shun as many time savers as possible and play through the game totally normally but fast. There's an all temples and Ganon challenges category that you can try for, but it's definitely not glitchless. Just learn the new tricks man it'll make the game more fun and making a speed run will become a lot more interesting.

arkarian

2010-08-08 05:07:40 pm

gamelogs.org

this type of run would not be accepted at sda, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. you can post it on the casual speedrunning board, youtube, and elsewhere. i'm sure there'd be lots of interest.

lagufirtnec

2010-08-09 04:32:20 am

Quote from Goldencupkake:

No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed

how do you define this; theres literally thousands of tricks and glitches in OoT, who are you to decide what counts and what doesnt? these tricks cover massive amounts of grey area as to what may or may not be a "glitch."

is backwalking a glitch? it moves you faster than rolling or walking forwards.

is jumping to the water temple raise water ledge a glitch? you can barely make it with an angled jump, and there is a different way to get there.

is skipping navi's text on the way to the slingshot a glitch? by timing the A press on right frame, you can bypass the text there. is that a glitch?

is power crouch stabbing a glitch? this enables you to 1 cycle gohma very easily, and it doesn't look like that attack should do that much damage?

is using the ground jump to skip 2 rooms in DC a glitch?

what about skipping bolero by jumping down to the lone platform in the lava, then playing the scarecrow song and using the longshot?

speaking of songs, is dying while entering the minuet cutscene in order to gain the song without watching the cutscene a glitch?

in water temple, you can jump from the entrance down to the 2nd level, then hookshot up and use a jumpslash to get back up to the top floor without raising the water or going through the side room. is this a glitch?

if you jumpslash against the corner of the lab-house in lake hylia you fall into the water and can swim to the water temple entrance without the iron boots. is this a glitch?

you can also barely barely reach the switch to open the water temple without the iron boots just by standing in an exact spot, you have a couple of pixels where you can hit the switch and open the temple. is this a glitch?

is using a bombchu to blow yourself up onto the seam in the graveyard a glitch? this enables you to reach the shadow temple.

if you get the forest temple poes in the corner, you can keep them there with quickspins and they dont have time to turn invisible. is this a glitch?

swinging the hammer against a wall then quickly equipping the hoverboots lets you keep the momentum of the hammer for awhile. doing this you can get into the wasteland without the gerudo card. is this a glitch?

in the morpha battle if you stay in the exact corners, morpha will never have a chance of attacking you. is this a glitch?

using rba you can write the values of the medallions into your inventory with the appropriate item on c-right. is this a glitch?

in DC, if you never got the slingshot you can still get past the fire circle platforms using extremely well timed, well angled jumpslashes. is this a glitch?

in the haunted wasteland, if you know the path, you can get past without being guided by the poe. is that a glitch?

in the spirit temple, if you get near the top of the boss door and then jumpslash at the right spot, you can go through the door, which gets you to the Nabooru-knuckle fight. is this a glitch?

---

my point here is that there is a wide variety of tricks and "glitches" in OoT, but one could never in a million years hope to define exactly what counts and what doesn't. THEREFORE runs like this seem pretty pointless to me unless you are actually going to set down solid rules instead of vague things like "no glitching."

What is a glitch? these are only a couple examples. there are, I guarantee you, hundreds more.

[quote="Goldencupkake"]
[list]
[li]No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed[/li]
[/list]
[/quote]how do you define this; theres literally thousands of tricks and glitches in OoT, who are you to decide what counts and what doesnt? these tricks cover massive amounts of grey area as to what may or may not be a "glitch."

is backwalking a glitch? it moves you faster than rolling or walking forwards.

is jumping to the water temple raise water ledge a glitch? you can barely make it with an angled jump, and there is a different way to get there.

is skipping navi's text on the way to the slingshot a glitch? by timing the A press on right frame, you can bypass the text there. is that a glitch?

is power crouch stabbing a glitch? this enables you to 1 cycle gohma very easily, and it doesn't look like that attack should do that much damage?

is using the ground jump to skip 2 rooms in DC a glitch?

what about skipping bolero by jumping down to the lone platform in the lava, then playing the scarecrow song and using the longshot?

speaking of songs, is dying while entering the minuet cutscene in order to gain the song without watching the cutscene a glitch?

in water temple, you can jump from the entrance down to the 2nd level, then hookshot up and use a jumpslash to get back up to the top floor without raising the water or going through the side room. is this a glitch?

if you jumpslash against the corner of the lab-house in lake hylia you fall into the water and can swim to the water temple entrance without the iron boots. is this a glitch?

you can also barely barely reach the switch to open the water temple without the iron boots just by standing in an exact spot, you have a couple of pixels where you can hit the switch and open the temple. is this a glitch?

is using a bombchu to blow yourself up onto the seam in the graveyard a glitch? this enables you to reach the shadow temple.

if you get the forest temple poes in the corner, you can keep them there with quickspins and they dont have time to turn invisible. is this a glitch?

swinging the hammer against a wall then quickly equipping the hoverboots lets you keep the momentum of the hammer for awhile. doing this you can get into the wasteland without the gerudo card. is this a glitch?

in the morpha battle if you stay in the exact corners, morpha will never have a chance of attacking you. is this a glitch?

using rba you can write the values of the medallions into your inventory with the appropriate item on c-right. is this a glitch?

in DC, if you never got the slingshot you can still get past the fire circle platforms using extremely well timed, well angled jumpslashes. is this a glitch?

in the haunted wasteland, if you know the path, you can get past without being guided by the poe. is that a glitch?

in the spirit temple, if you get near the top of the boss door and then jumpslash at the right spot, you can go through the door, which gets you to the Nabooru-knuckle fight. is this a glitch?

---

my point here is that there is a wide variety of tricks and "glitches" in OoT, but one could never in a million years hope to define exactly what counts and what doesn't. THEREFORE runs like this seem pretty pointless to me unless you are actually going to set down solid rules instead of vague things like "no glitching."

What is a glitch? these are only a couple examples. there are, I guarantee you, hundreds more.

Worn_Traveler

2010-08-09 04:11:26 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

Quote from arkarian:

this type of run would not be accepted at sda, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. you can post it on the casual speedrunning board, youtube, and elsewhere. i'm sure there'd be lots of interest.

Why wouldn't it be accepted? Is there a rule in place that bans non OOB runs now for OOT and MM? If he can beat the current Sub 5 run using minimal glitches like the current run then there's no reason it should dismissed so casually.

Solairflaire

2010-08-09 07:58:54 pm

I agree with Skullboy.

SDA currently allows Out of Bounds and Large Skip glitches and such but puts them in a separate category. The current runs use lots of those. What needs to be discussed here is what constitutes OoB and Large Skips.

Backwalking is obviously not and should be used in the run as much as possible. Skipping text only makes the run shorter and if I remember right, is encouraged in any long game. Running through the desert without the Lens of Truth is in no way a glitch any more than making it through the Lost Woods in the original Legend of Zelda is. It's memorization.

I'll admit that I'm not qualified to go through and determine what is and is not a Large Skip Glitch. But it is something that needs to be discussed if the OP is considering a run without them. Have they been defined for this game? If he is seriously considering no glitches or tricks at all, then I agree it's not SDA worthy.

lagufirtnec

2010-08-09 09:03:11 pm

you literally cannot define what is or isn't a glitch here. there is simply unending grey area, I can bring up hundreds of examples that cannot be judged without personal bias.

the old OoB rule was a blanket ban on all games on this site, and was removed because it was a stupid rule.

the no major skip run is called MST
you beat the game, but also collect all spiritual stones, medallions, and dispel the trials barrier. ("all dungeons run")

the only people who think a "no glitch run" of OoT would be a good idea, are people who are not familiar enough with the game. I do not mean to act elitist or judgmental here but if you know OoT as well as I do, you will know that there is too much grey area to define what a glitch is. It's just the way the game is.

Let me show you what I mean:

Quote:

- Main story only (completion of all dungeons and temples, castle, and any required mini dungeons)
- No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed

this is already extremely vague. what is a required mini-dungeon? It appears intended for the player to obtain the lens of truth in order to cross the desert and beat the shadow temple (the last room before the boss comes to mind here), but you can do without it.

meanwhile you can easily skip iron boots if you are willing do let the Tektite knock you into the water while casting a spell. Does this mean the ice cavern is not required?

furthermore, does the gerudo fortress count as a mini-dungeon? it has small keys but no map or compass. can I hammerboost off the jail ledge to skip the fortress in this run?

it says "no glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed." does this mean it is ok to skip certain rooms in dungeons but not the entire dungeon? for example, in the shadow temple in the cage you can jumpslash against the corner of the iron bars and the wall, and you will clip through it and get to the boat almost immediately after the hover boots. this seems to be allowed according to Kake's rules yet it would appear this would "go against the developers intentions" (which in itself is a very vague statement as we do not know what is or is not intended.)

you literally cannot define what is or isn't a glitch here. there is simply unending grey area, I can bring up hundreds of examples that cannot be judged without personal bias.

the old OoB rule was a blanket ban on all games on this site, and was removed because it was a stupid rule.

the no major skip run is called MST
you beat the game, but also collect all spiritual stones, medallions, and dispel the trials barrier. ("all dungeons run")

the only people who think a "no glitch run" of OoT would be a good idea, are people who are not familiar enough with the game. I do not mean to act elitist or judgmental here but if you know OoT as well as I do, you will know that there is too much grey area to define what a glitch is. It's just the way the game is.

Let me show you what I mean:

[quote]- Main story only (completion of all dungeons and temples, castle, and any required mini dungeons)
- No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed[/quote]

this is already extremely vague. what is a required mini-dungeon? It appears [b]intended[/b] for the player to obtain the lens of truth in order to cross the desert and beat the shadow temple (the last room before the boss comes to mind here), but you can do without it.

meanwhile you can easily skip iron boots if you are willing do let the Tektite knock you into the water while casting a spell. Does this mean the ice cavern is not required?

furthermore, does the gerudo fortress count as a mini-dungeon? it has small keys but no map or compass. can I hammerboost off the jail ledge to skip the fortress in this run?

it says "no glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed." does this mean it is ok to skip certain rooms in dungeons but not the entire dungeon? for example, in the shadow temple in the cage you can jumpslash against the corner of the iron bars and the wall, and you will clip through it and get to the boat almost immediately after the hover boots. this seems to be allowed according to Kake's rules yet it would appear this would "go against the developers intentions" (which in itself is a very vague statement as we do not know what is or is not intended.)

Solairflaire

2010-08-10 02:37:36 am

The only things that would need to be defined is what is considered OOB and Large Skip. Anything else would be legal to use. Are you saying that there are that many for the game that it is impossible to define all of them? It would just take some people willing to sit down and discuss what is and is not.

Skipping almost an entire dungeon by jump slashing through a wall would most definately be a Large Skip. If you can get somewhere without entering a mini-dungeon (like getting to the Spirit Temple without the Lens of Truth), that is not a skip, unless you need to glitch through a wall to do so (skipping Garudo Fortress unless there is a non going through wall way).

There may be a lot of glitches in the game, but it's not impossible to come up with some generic ground rules for what constitutes a Large Skip Glitch or OOB. If it comes down to it, a laundry list could be made too.

If the OP is actually considering no tricks whatsoever (like backwalking, playing without the Lens of Truth, fighting a boss in a way you can always hit it but it can't hurt you), I do completely agree that the run would not be acceptable here.

Also, what's MST stand for?

The only things that would need to be defined is what is considered OOB and Large Skip. Anything else would be legal to use. Are you saying that there are that many for the game that it is impossible to define all of them? It would just take some people willing to sit down and discuss what is and is not.

Skipping almost an entire dungeon by jump slashing through a wall would most definately be a Large Skip. If you can get somewhere without entering a mini-dungeon (like getting to the Spirit Temple without the Lens of Truth), that is not a skip, unless you need to glitch through a wall to do so (skipping Garudo Fortress unless there is a non going through wall way).

There may be a lot of glitches in the game, but it's not impossible to come up with some generic ground rules for what constitutes a Large Skip Glitch or OOB. If it comes down to it, a laundry list could be made too.

If the OP is actually considering no tricks whatsoever (like backwalking, playing without the Lens of Truth, fighting a boss in a way you can always hit it but it can't hurt you), I do completely agree that the run would not be acceptable here.

Also, what's MST stand for?

MASTER-88

2010-08-10 06:53:37 am

Master-88

As far as i can tell there is up Kazooie full medallion single segment run.

I think this is real category "non oob" I think we not need other non oob subspecies

Enterim

2010-08-10 10:46:45 am

Quote from Solairflaire:

Also, what's MST stand for?

Medallions, Stones, Trials.

RingRush

2010-08-10 12:50:03 pm

Fun fact: the "no major skip" division is more glitchy than the "major skips" division. NMS (or MST) is defined as completing all 8 major dungeons, Ganon's trials, and then finishing the game. The current MST route uses tons of glitches, here is a sampling:
- Jabu Jabu's Belly is the first dungeon completed; Deku Tree is the fifth and done as adult
- The Water Temple is completed in under 4 minutes: the route goes through 3 rooms (first room, boss door room, boss room)
- No poes are killed in the Forest Temple, and immediately after the bow the route beelines to the boss, skipping the boss key
- Ice Cavern is skipped, Inside Gerudo Fortress is skipped (Bottom of the Well is actually visited but not for the Lens of Truth - using a few glitches you can get bombchus from there immediately after escaping from the forest, thus allowing DC to be delayed to adult)
- Saria's Song is skipped, Song of Storms is skipped, Din's Fire is skipped, all warp songs except Minuet of Forest are skipped, Iron Boots are skipped, Longshot is skipped, Slingshot is skipped, Gerudo Card is skipped, Goron Bracelet is skipped, Silver Gauntlets are skipped, Silver Scale is skipped, Goron Tunic is skipped, Zora Tunic is skipped, 3 Boss Keys are skipped, numerous Small Keys are skipped, Song of Time is skipped, and, here is the fun one, Ocarina of Time is skipped.

So, if you think your run can beat a run like this, then go for it and submit to SDA. Keep in mind that this means if you don't get around 3:05 single segment, a fair bit lower for segmented, your run will get rejected. If you want to keep going for a no major skip run, you better learn all of these tricks. If you want to continue a run that was more of what you had in mind, take it to casual speedrunning.

Master-88: See the entire adult section of the current any% route? That is all possible without out of bounds glitches. There are very few skips in this game that require OoB - it is easily possible to skip all 5 adult temples and ganon's trials without it. I'd be willing to say 90% of the breaks in this game don't use out of bounds glitchs, and that a sub 2 hour run is easily possible without OoB (the only OoB glitch in the any% is the door of time skip, so you'ld have to beat child dungeons). But this is all irrelevant, since the Zelda community completely disagrees with you and MST is the current No Major Skips division (although there has been a push to remove trials from the definition, but I'm not going to delve into that now).

Fun fact: the "no major skip" division is more glitchy than the "major skips" division. NMS (or MST) is defined as completing all 8 major dungeons, Ganon's trials, and then finishing the game. The current MST route uses tons of glitches, here is a sampling:
- Jabu Jabu's Belly is the first dungeon completed; Deku Tree is the fifth and done as adult
- The Water Temple is completed in under 4 minutes: the route goes through 3 rooms (first room, boss door room, boss room)
- No poes are killed in the Forest Temple, and immediately after the bow the route beelines to the boss, skipping the boss key
- Ice Cavern is skipped, Inside Gerudo Fortress is skipped (Bottom of the Well is actually visited but not for the Lens of Truth - using a few glitches you can get bombchus from there immediately after escaping from the forest, thus allowing DC to be delayed to adult)
- Saria's Song is skipped, Song of Storms is skipped, Din's Fire is skipped, all warp songs except Minuet of Forest are skipped, Iron Boots are skipped, Longshot is skipped, Slingshot is skipped, Gerudo Card is skipped, Goron Bracelet is skipped, Silver Gauntlets are skipped, Silver Scale is skipped, Goron Tunic is skipped, Zora Tunic is skipped, 3 Boss Keys are skipped, numerous Small Keys are skipped, Song of Time is skipped, and, here is the fun one, Ocarina of Time is skipped.

So, if you think your run can beat a run like this, then go for it and submit to SDA. Keep in mind that this means if you don't get around 3:05 single segment, a fair bit lower for segmented, your run will get rejected. If you want to keep going for a no major skip run, you better learn all of these tricks. If you want to continue a run that was more of what you had in mind, take it to casual speedrunning.

Master-88: See the entire adult section of the current any% route? That is all possible without out of bounds glitches. There are very few skips in this game that require OoB - it is easily possible to skip all 5 adult temples and ganon's trials without it. I'd be willing to say 90% of the breaks in this game don't use out of bounds glitchs, and that a sub 2 hour run is easily possible without OoB (the only OoB glitch in the any% is the door of time skip, so you'ld have to beat child dungeons). But this is all irrelevant, since the Zelda community completely disagrees with you and MST is the current No Major Skips division (although there has been a push to remove trials from the definition, but I'm not going to delve into that now).

Solairflaire

2010-08-10 05:09:19 pm

If things have been defined for the game, then I concede that they are what is acceptable. I had asked and no one, until now, actually said that definitions had been set in stone. If the OP (or anyone) can make a run without using one or more and make it faster, that would be impressive. I doubt it would happen though.

Is there a place that the list or definition is? That way people could have a link to it. Or should one just search the forums here?

lagufirtnec

2010-08-10 05:44:58 pm

here are the exact rules for MST:

You must obtain the 3 spiritual stones
You must obtain the 6 medallions
You must dispel Ganon's Trials barrier
You are not allowed to use Reverse Bottle Adventure

anything else is fair game.

Worn_Traveler

2010-08-10 08:51:39 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

The run to compete against in this category would be the 4:46 SS, even though it's the PAL version. That run uses glitches but doesn't bypass anything important (it's been a while since I've watched it, but it's a great run).

SD2

2010-08-10 09:04:30 pm

dem tokay

Yes, but ZFG has done a 3:15, and is not satisfied. I think he last said he wants like 3:05 or something, and he had a run on track for 3:03 that ended at volvagia.

Simply put, any time over 3:05 will be viewed as unacceptable by the zelda speedrunning community, and thus rejected.

EDIT: Kazooie's run converted into NTSC in 3:58 - 3:59. Just to show how out of date his run is (not to say it wasn't a bad run, it was fantastic for its time).

Worn_Traveler

2010-08-10 09:20:47 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

Those runs aren't published here, so I would assume that if Goldencupcakes beats the record here, it would stand until something shorter has been published.

RingRush

2010-08-10 09:37:04 pm

I'm fairly sure ZFG would submit his 3:12 (which includes an ugly death against the bow stalfos costing a bunch of time) over having a "glitchless" run submitted. You really need to be below 3:10 if you want to consider submitting for the no major skip category, or else it'll probably be rejected due to suboptimal play or terrible route planning.

UchihaSasuke

2010-08-11 09:51:26 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

imo, anyone wanting to do the game "glitchless" and have their run up should wait for the OoT 3DS remake. for the current OoT, that kind of run has a better place at youtube and the casual running forum.

Worn_Traveler

2010-08-11 11:34:24 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

Quote from RingRush:

I'm fairly sure ZFG would submit his 3:12 (which includes an ugly death against the bow stalfos costing a bunch of time) over having a "glitchless" run submitted. You really need to be below 3:10 if you want to consider submitting for the no major skip category, or else it'll probably be rejected due to suboptimal play or terrible route planning.

I hope he submits it. The worst that could happen is he's told no. There are other runs that have some sloppy areas here. The definition of suboptimal play and such would fall to the verifiers, wouldn't it?

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

imo, anyone wanting to do the game "glitchless" and have their run up should wait for the OoT 3DS remake. for the current OoT, that kind of run has a better place at youtube and the casual running forum.

We're talking about a No Major Skip run, which could use some glitches. If he has a chance to break the current record, I say go for it. If it's rejected, then he can go to the casual speed running section or Youtube, but give him a chance first.

[quote="RingRush"]
I'm fairly sure ZFG would submit his 3:12 (which includes an ugly death against the bow stalfos costing a bunch of time) over having a "glitchless" run submitted. You really need to be below 3:10 if you want to consider submitting for the no major skip category, or else it'll probably be rejected due to suboptimal play or terrible route planning.
[/quote]

I hope he submits it. The worst that could happen is he's told no. There are other runs that have some sloppy areas here. The definition of suboptimal play and such would fall to the verifiers, wouldn't it?

[quote="UchihaSasuke"]
imo, anyone wanting to do the game "glitchless" and have their run up should wait for the OoT 3DS remake. for the current OoT, that kind of run has a better place at youtube and the casual running forum.
[/quote]

We're talking about  a No Major Skip run, which could use some glitches. If he has a chance to break the current record, I say go for it. If it's rejected, then he can go to the casual speed running section or Youtube, but give him a chance first.

UchihaSasuke

2010-08-11 02:19:15 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

well, my comment applied only to the glitchless run he wanted to do. if he does MST, that's different.

Worn_Traveler

2010-08-11 02:57:51 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

Quote:

- Main story only (completion of all dungeons and temples, castle, and any required mini dungeons)
- No glitching in ways that would prevent the previous point from being completed

Sorry for the confusion there. As mentioned before, this is vague (and I have a limited understanding of the game from a glitch perspective). He's not looking for glitchless, but he doesn't want to tear the game apart either... Hopefully things will become more defined in the future.

Elminster

2010-08-11 03:18:52 pm

Personally, I think the best way to define such a run would be "no skipping Navi hints". You have to complete the parts of the game that trigger Navi's hints in order. It would require some research, but IMO that would be the best way to avoid ambiguity when defining such a run.

Of course, this would only be acceptable for casual running.

TSA

2010-08-18 12:25:11 am

Retired

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

imo, anyone wanting to do the game "glitchless" and have their run up should wait for the OoT 3DS remake. for the current OoT, that kind of run has a better place at youtube and the casual running forum.

Except OoT 3D is not going to be the same as OoT. It's gonna be a complete remix/re-imagining of the game according to Aonuma. Any existing routes for OoT will not apply to OoT 3D, and I don't think anyone here should be in the mindset if you know OoT, you'll be able to immediately jump in and run OoT 3D. It's not gonna be the same. But it's not gonna be out for a few years at least, so focus on OoT Vanilla.

Goldencupkake

2010-08-31 08:57:06 am

Ok, so ive been kinda busy lately, but im glad to see this has sparked so much response. I apologize for the vague post, and would like to clarify. I am by no means against glitching. However, i am against skipping the MST. In addition, I want to glitch the game, not break it. In my mind, anything OOB is going beyond a glitch. Am i incorrect in that mindset?

Someone mentioned the water temple skip. I assume thats with the hover boots or a bomb hover. I see no issue getting to the boss door in that fashion. The issue comes in when you bomb hover to slide through the wall and past the door altogether. Likewise with the temple of time door skip and any other OOB situation. Note that i dont consider the shadow temple an OOB as the sword bomb jump never actually has you leave the game. But with this method i believe you would have to have dins fire as i wouldnt want to side step off and fall through the level to the door. likewise with the spirit temple, when we do the sidestep from the gate to the wall, we never leave the level.

I am all for skipping navi and that annoying owl whenever possible. door sidesteps and trigger hops are fine by me because you dont go OOB and you still complete the basic story.

My goal here is to understand the set parameters, so corrections that are in order are certainly welcome.

Ok, so ive been kinda busy lately, but im glad to see this has sparked so much response. I apologize for the vague post, and would like to clarify. I am by no means against glitching. However, i am against skipping the MST. In addition, I want to glitch the game, not break it. In my mind, anything OOB is going beyond a glitch. Am i incorrect in that mindset?

Someone mentioned the water temple skip. I assume thats with the hover boots or a bomb hover. I see no issue getting to the boss door in that fashion. The issue comes in when you bomb hover to slide through the wall and past the door altogether. Likewise with the temple of time door skip and any other OOB situation. Note that i dont consider the shadow temple an OOB as the sword bomb jump never actually has you leave the game. But with this method i believe you would have to have dins fire as i wouldnt want to side step off and fall through the level to the door. likewise with the spirit temple, when we do the sidestep from the gate to the wall, we never leave the level.

I am all for skipping navi and that annoying owl whenever possible. door sidesteps and trigger hops are fine by me because you dont go OOB and you still complete the basic story.

My goal here is to understand the set parameters, so corrections that are in order are certainly welcome.

RingRush

2010-08-31 10:00:16 am

"In addition, I want to glitch the game, not break it. In my mind, anything OOB is going beyond a glitch. Am i incorrect in that mindset?"

Yes.

As lagufirtnerc said:
"You must obtain the 3 spiritual stones
You must obtain the 6 medallions
You must dispel Ganon's Trials barrier
You are not allowed to use Reverse Bottle Adventure"

These are the rules of MST (along with the general SDA rules like no hardware modification). Anything else is completely fair game, OoB or not. By the way, you never actually go Out of Bounds in the Water Temple Boss Key skip, you simply go through the door straight to the loading zone. Using your definition, that is perfectly fair game. Either way, your definition is not the correct one, so it is a moot point.