We actually have boss key skips in every temple but ToG, where it is useless to skip it. Furthermore, we have EMS through FF2 early (although it ends up dead ending just like the old TP EMS), Cabana Deed skip (and thus Joy Pendant and HP skip), skip Ganon's trials [no hovering or collection delay used here], skip Puppet Ganon fight, and various strange item orders, like bombs before DRC or skip deku leaf completely (wastes a lot of time). Basically, WW is getting wrecked.
SDA Forum
Due to the revival of the thread, I'll go ahead and post tricks w/ their corresponding videos
The first one is Zombie Hovering-
It allows you to go as far and as high as you want, as long as you are at 0 health.
When you want to stop hovering, you either have to take the death (Convenient in some situations), use tingle tuner to heal you in mid-air, or land on a stray heart/heart piece/heart container.
Speed tricks associated with Zombie hover:
Skip first half of Dragon Roost Cavern
DRC Boss Key Skip
Small Key Skip/Early Boss Key in Forbidden Woods
Helmaroc Battle second half skip (since Skullhammer currently isn't skippable, the better method is to hit Helmaroc and hover off the dark grey platform)
Earth Temple Boss Key Skip
Skip Makar capture
Wind Temple timesaver (Good for SS, segmented would just burn the lid on the pot)
Wind Temple Boss Key Skip
Puppet Ganon Battle Skip
Those are the only real speed tricks with Zombie hovering, most of the others just involve doing stuff out of order, skipping items etc etc (Which now could warrant a low% category... only problem is it'd easily be over an hour longer)
Along with the influx of testing, we've also found tricks that don't require hovering, and that's beautiful (considering hovering is a strenuous task)
Skipping the Tingle Tuner strategies since I'm sure they've been discussed years ago
A couple days ago we've found some interesting things with Forest water:
Locked camera, Superswim
Collection Delay
Superswim's pretty self-explanatory why we'd use it. Collection delay gives us some pretty nifty things though
Forbidden Woods Boss Key skip (too bad it's slower due to the timer not going down during cutscenes)
Cabana deed skip (Delivery bag skip for low%)
As described in the video, you can use the chest on the same island, but it has a cutscene which results everything turning black except for eyes, wind lines, etc.
Finally we have some tricks that require none of the above shenanigans, and they are beautiful
Skip crawling around in the Cabana sewers
Hyoi pear/Bait Bag skip
And everybody's favorite- Ganon trials skip
Wind Waker's been getting the treatment it needed lately, but due to Tingle Tuner shenanigans, we really need to debate on whether or not using the tingle tuner will warrant a seperate category. Honestly, I think it should.
Also the money management needed for this now blows.
The first one is Zombie Hovering-
It allows you to go as far and as high as you want, as long as you are at 0 health.
When you want to stop hovering, you either have to take the death (Convenient in some situations), use tingle tuner to heal you in mid-air, or land on a stray heart/heart piece/heart container.
Speed tricks associated with Zombie hover:
Skip first half of Dragon Roost Cavern
DRC Boss Key Skip
Small Key Skip/Early Boss Key in Forbidden Woods
Helmaroc Battle second half skip (since Skullhammer currently isn't skippable, the better method is to hit Helmaroc and hover off the dark grey platform)
Earth Temple Boss Key Skip
Skip Makar capture
Wind Temple timesaver (Good for SS, segmented would just burn the lid on the pot)
Wind Temple Boss Key Skip
Puppet Ganon Battle Skip
Those are the only real speed tricks with Zombie hovering, most of the others just involve doing stuff out of order, skipping items etc etc (Which now could warrant a low% category... only problem is it'd easily be over an hour longer)
Along with the influx of testing, we've also found tricks that don't require hovering, and that's beautiful (considering hovering is a strenuous task)
Skipping the Tingle Tuner strategies since I'm sure they've been discussed years ago
A couple days ago we've found some interesting things with Forest water:
Locked camera, Superswim
Collection Delay
Superswim's pretty self-explanatory why we'd use it. Collection delay gives us some pretty nifty things though
Forbidden Woods Boss Key skip (too bad it's slower due to the timer not going down during cutscenes)
Cabana deed skip (Delivery bag skip for low%)
As described in the video, you can use the chest on the same island, but it has a cutscene which results everything turning black except for eyes, wind lines, etc.
Finally we have some tricks that require none of the above shenanigans, and they are beautiful
Skip crawling around in the Cabana sewers
Hyoi pear/Bait Bag skip
And everybody's favorite- Ganon trials skip
Wind Waker's been getting the treatment it needed lately, but due to Tingle Tuner shenanigans, we really need to debate on whether or not using the tingle tuner will warrant a seperate category. Honestly, I think it should.
Also the money management needed for this now blows.
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
Quote from AniMeowzerz:
Wind Waker's been getting the treatment it needed lately, but due to Tingle Tuner shenanigans, we really need to debate on whether or not using the tingle tuner will warrant a seperate category. Honestly, I think it should.
Using the Tingle Tuner does constitute a separate category:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php?topic=5209.msg288603#msg288603
Quote from KlydeStorm:
There's currently no updated route, but I believe Venick409 is working on one for a Tingle Tuner run.
He's working on the SS route, Segmented still needs to be worked out, such as where and when we're going to use forest water (Getting into the Cabana w/o the deed, Wind temple BK skip for non-TT route, etc)
It's going to be painful routing forest water, depending on how well the person does per segment, they could come up too short or have to end up waiting for the timer to run out.
heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh
I remember being able to fish the Triumph Forks out of the ocean prior to getting their relevant charts, much less before getting them deciphered. MrSparkle apparently made a comment to that effect, as the search feature told me, but it did not specify where I can find the entire comment, so I don't know. Is that actually possible or am I just misremembering things because of Tingle's "Tingle, Tingle, Kooloo Limpa!...Become...MY RETIREMENT FUNDS"?
THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS
If xud9dab2's memory is correct, then we need to test this claim. But in order to test it, we need to know whether the chart treasures are located in the exact same spot in repeated, non-new-game-plus playthroughs (I know for a fact that their locations are rearranged slightly in the new game plus, though it would be worth testing for consistency among new game pluses as well, to see if it's like LoZ's second quest or the PAL Hidden Mansion).
So, I'm seriously considering attempting a (Segmented) run of Wind Waker. I've wanted to do some kind of run for a while, and as of late I've been watching a lot of Zelda runs and really am sad that Wind Waker doesn't have a quality run completely. A LOT of new tricks have been discovered since TSA did his run, so it'd be good to see a great run done of this. Am I the one to do it? I have no idea, but I think I'll try.
The biggest question for me is do I even try Zombie Hovering here or not. I do have access to Tingle Tuner, so maybe.
And I have basically no idea where to start with this, either. The route will be the most difficult thing, ESPECIALLY the Triforce quest route. I'm loathing the idea of that part, that's the only thing really making me hesitant here.
The biggest question for me is do I even try Zombie Hovering here or not. I do have access to Tingle Tuner, so maybe.
And I have basically no idea where to start with this, either. The route will be the most difficult thing, ESPECIALLY the Triforce quest route. I'm loathing the idea of that part, that's the only thing really making me hesitant here.
destroy them with lazers
Check here for route help.
http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=7c7nt9cf2vlh5o26l5v427sso1&board=4.0
http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=7c7nt9cf2vlh5o26l5v427sso1&board=4.0
Keep in mind that it is a separate category to use the tingle tuner if you want to use it. To make zombie hovering 'useful' You should be able to mash at 10hz. I recommend being able to mash at 13+ Hz if you were wanting to do anything with it though.
if you aren't using the tingle tuner, the route shouldn't scare you as much. You won't have to deal with stupid things like what rupees to get, where hovering would be really effective; There's also the fact that tingle does have a few more abilities so you'd have to figure out if using one of the other abilities would be beneficial anywhere else in the game. THEN you'd also have to take into consideration beings that you're doing a segmented run if the time it takes to bring out the tingle tuner in w/e segments you'd need it in warrants the time saved from using the tingle tuner... it's just a whole mess.
That and it would be really stupid to have someone else come along with a tingle tuner route and beat yours just because of their physical ability to mash faster than you can, etc etc
NOW. If you aren't considering tingle tuner, there's only a few hiccups to deal with since new tricks have been found, but not too much has changed. The first thing is unfortunately the triforce chart collection. Beings that you CAN skip having to do the Killer Bees/Miss Marie sidequest to get the cabana deed by doing Forest water collection delay in order to clip into the cabana, I do recommend doing so.
The biggest problem is that forest water has a 20 minute timer attached to it, which doesn't take into consideration: Cutscenes, Pause menu, and the loading/animation between doors/grottos/etc.
So, you'd have to figure out the best time of bottling the water and being able to perform this 1-frame trick by the end of the forest water's time span optimally. Another crappy thing is the most optimal chest to use for the trick is on the island with the cabana, and due to the item that's inside of it, it causes the world to become pitch black, and you'd have to be able to set up the clip and everything practically blind. Super :3
Other than the cabana, I do have the old route for the triforce chart/piece collection, if you want a starting point.
I am more than happy to help you route this out depending on what you want to do
if you aren't using the tingle tuner, the route shouldn't scare you as much. You won't have to deal with stupid things like what rupees to get, where hovering would be really effective; There's also the fact that tingle does have a few more abilities so you'd have to figure out if using one of the other abilities would be beneficial anywhere else in the game. THEN you'd also have to take into consideration beings that you're doing a segmented run if the time it takes to bring out the tingle tuner in w/e segments you'd need it in warrants the time saved from using the tingle tuner... it's just a whole mess.
That and it would be really stupid to have someone else come along with a tingle tuner route and beat yours just because of their physical ability to mash faster than you can, etc etc
NOW. If you aren't considering tingle tuner, there's only a few hiccups to deal with since new tricks have been found, but not too much has changed. The first thing is unfortunately the triforce chart collection. Beings that you CAN skip having to do the Killer Bees/Miss Marie sidequest to get the cabana deed by doing Forest water collection delay in order to clip into the cabana, I do recommend doing so.
The biggest problem is that forest water has a 20 minute timer attached to it, which doesn't take into consideration: Cutscenes, Pause menu, and the loading/animation between doors/grottos/etc.
So, you'd have to figure out the best time of bottling the water and being able to perform this 1-frame trick by the end of the forest water's time span optimally. Another crappy thing is the most optimal chest to use for the trick is on the island with the cabana, and due to the item that's inside of it, it causes the world to become pitch black, and you'd have to be able to set up the clip and everything practically blind. Super :3
Other than the cabana, I do have the old route for the triforce chart/piece collection, if you want a starting point.
TRIFORCE ROUTE:
Warp to GFI
Set wind SW
Sail S 1 block, shoot down ship, enter building and get chart 1
Sail W 1 block, shoot down gold ship, fish out Chart 2
Sail S 1 block, Hookshot up, do maze shenanigans for ghost chart
Warp to Outset
Savage labyrinth for Chart 3
Warp to Windfall
Ms. Mary and Killer Bees shenanigans for Cabana deed
(Optional: Song of passing to turn into night rather than waiting for it to turn into night along the way)
Warp to ToG
Sail S 1 block, Enter Cabana, do Sewers for Chart 4
(Play song of passing, open up ghost chart, warp/sail to Ghost ship for chart 5)
(If no Song of Passing, apply it during Night inbetween whatever charts you want)
Warp to DRI
Set wind N
Sail NE, hookshot up, enter hole, Fight fight, Chart 6
Warp to FH
Sail NE to Bird Rock
grapple hook clip behind the bars, chart 7
Warp to SFI
Sail NW, pick up head, More fighting, chart 8
101 Rupee pillar trick until 3184+ Rupees
Warp to Tingle Island
Translate Charts, open charts
Warp to Windfall
Sail 1 N, Piece 1
Warp to DRI
Sail 1 N, Piece 2
Warp to FH
Sail E-NE, Piece 3
Warp to GFI, Piece 4
Set wind SE
Sail SE, Piece 5
Sail 1 E, Piece 6
Warp to Outset, Piece 7
Warp to SFI
Sail 1 S, Piece 8
Warp to GFI
Set wind SW
Sail S 1 block, shoot down ship, enter building and get chart 1
Sail W 1 block, shoot down gold ship, fish out Chart 2
Sail S 1 block, Hookshot up, do maze shenanigans for ghost chart
Warp to Outset
Savage labyrinth for Chart 3
Warp to Windfall
Ms. Mary and Killer Bees shenanigans for Cabana deed
(Optional: Song of passing to turn into night rather than waiting for it to turn into night along the way)
Warp to ToG
Sail S 1 block, Enter Cabana, do Sewers for Chart 4
(Play song of passing, open up ghost chart, warp/sail to Ghost ship for chart 5)
(If no Song of Passing, apply it during Night inbetween whatever charts you want)
Warp to DRI
Set wind N
Sail NE, hookshot up, enter hole, Fight fight, Chart 6
Warp to FH
Sail NE to Bird Rock
grapple hook clip behind the bars, chart 7
Warp to SFI
Sail NW, pick up head, More fighting, chart 8
101 Rupee pillar trick until 3184+ Rupees
Warp to Tingle Island
Translate Charts, open charts
Warp to Windfall
Sail 1 N, Piece 1
Warp to DRI
Sail 1 N, Piece 2
Warp to FH
Sail E-NE, Piece 3
Warp to GFI, Piece 4
Set wind SE
Sail SE, Piece 5
Sail 1 E, Piece 6
Warp to Outset, Piece 7
Warp to SFI
Sail 1 S, Piece 8
I am more than happy to help you route this out depending on what you want to do
Thanks for the help, guys! I have been doing a lot of reading at ZSR, it's probably one of the best resources for Zelda speedrunning.
As for whether I do Tingle Tuner or not, I think I'll experiment a fair bit before deciding for sure. One of the major reasons I'd like to do it is because, well, glitches are awesome to watch and would make the run more interesting! As for my mashing ability, I mash very quickly (see reactions to my sword slashing in Minish Cap at SGDQ), so I'm not terrible worried about that. I'm also not too worried about fatigue as it would be Segmented. You do make a good point about the time it takes to bring out the Tingle Tuner. Again, something to experiment with.
And storage will be an interesting challenge with this. I'd like to use it, but we'll see. The timing would have to be perfect. Another thing to play around with, I suppose.
As for whether I do Tingle Tuner or not, I think I'll experiment a fair bit before deciding for sure. One of the major reasons I'd like to do it is because, well, glitches are awesome to watch and would make the run more interesting! As for my mashing ability, I mash very quickly (see reactions to my sword slashing in Minish Cap at SGDQ), so I'm not terrible worried about that. I'm also not too worried about fatigue as it would be Segmented. You do make a good point about the time it takes to bring out the Tingle Tuner. Again, something to experiment with.
And storage will be an interesting challenge with this. I'd like to use it, but we'll see. The timing would have to be perfect. Another thing to play around with, I suppose.