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Yadir 'Riskbreaker Y' Osornio's run

Verifier Responses

Funny thing about most of the segments starting late. Yadir actually gave Nate proper segmentation info, but Nate threw it away.

Yes, this verifier requested his name be posted with his verification.

Quote:
[08:37] AshleyRiot2006: OK I watched all the segmnts of the VS run like 5 times each
[08:37] AshleyRiot2006: Consider it verified
[08:38] AshleyRiot2006: you have my Blood-Sins "Stamp of Approval"
[08:38] AshleyRiot2006: I'll provide you with detailed commentary as I can and as time goes along.
[08:38] AshleyRiot2006: In the meantime, it;s legit, it's the fastest World time for a 1st PlayThrough and you can go ahead and consider it as such.
[08:39] AshleyRiot2006: Re: Vagrant Story


Quote:
i don't want to waste any more time holding this vagrant story run up, so this is going to be shorter than it otherwise would be
first things first, this run is hot sizzle, easy accept
it's sub two hours, which is close to the ultima garden time, but that time is incredible plus being in japanese saves time
a lot of people used to think sub two hours was impossible too, like the guy with the speed faq on gamefaqs hah
some guy claimed a 1:17 which seems ludicrous seeing as how the ultima garden time is 1:43
anyway the planning is good, the execution is good, and the luck is good
he knows exactly what he's doing like with all the puzzles and stuff
dodges could be better, avoiding enemies in places too, but it's hard to perfect and done well already
you need really good timing to speedrun this game with all the chaining and defense timing
great job


Quote:
Here's my verification of the Vagrant Story run:

I am not frezy_man btw.


The timer runs until the game starts he actual saving so there are many places where save points are run over without the runner placing a segment end at that point. Saving takes 13 seconds so there is usually more time gained by having a longer but less lucky segment compared to segmenting at every save point.

Segment 1:
The runner could have been more lucky vs the minotaur as there's several misses which costs time. He impact guards everything on the way to dullahan, quite likely due to the high chance of dullahan getting off a drain heart spell which the runner can't guard against at this time and thus need high hp. He misses defence reaction on two bats which looks sloppy, but ends up actually saving him time since his hp was high enough for dullahan anyways. The ghost tele's away one extra time. With some more luck you can get the ghost to tele right next to you on the first try. This segment should have been split in the room before the ghost making it easier to manipulate both a faster minotaur fight, a faster ghost fight and minimize the amount of small mistakes. A crit on the ghost makes up for some lost time in this case, however it could have been achieved with the split segment anyways. The impact guard on the bat in the room after the ghost was unneccessary, it would not have killed the runner even with a random crit. Messes up the combo on the first lizard badly. A crit comes and saves the day making up for the time lost in that fight.

Segment ends at 16:10.


Segment 2:
This segment contains two failed attempts in the beginning. The real segment begins at 10:48. This needs to be cut out and reencoded. (Damn you, had to rewrite comments twice because of this! Guess I should have checked the vid more carefully after the first occurence)

Slimes are a good source to get ability points and the runner makes quick use of one here in order to learn one  more chain ability making raging ache available as the next ability. Unfortunately the third chain starts with a unusual high hit which prevents the runner from getting enough points for another ability before the golem.

The golem is weak to blunt but changing equipment takes too long so the runner has to go with his edged initial sword. The damage of the initial hit is important when chaining as the rest of the chain damage builds up  depending on a percentage of the initial hit. The runner gets very lucky and has a high initial hit on the first attempted chain. The huge difference in chain damage makes it a must to not start with a miss. Ideally, raging ache is received after the golem which will convert miss-chains from a big problem into a tiny one as the damage added is not dependant on  the initial hit at all. In order to compensate for not getting the ability in time the runner takes on a second slime in an attempt to get in some chains and he gets an initial high hit again! This totally destroys the chance of learning the ability before the dragon and reasonably, this segment should have been scrapped and retried by now. The runner goes ahead and downs the dragon in just one long combo which makes his dragon fight being only 7 seconds slower compared to the accidently included failed attempt where he did have raging ache. Taking the rest of the things that happened in this segment into account (especially the golem fight) I'd say that it is acceptable. Even with the time loss of not learning raging ache all the other things pieced together so well that overall, time was gained over previous attempts.


Segment 3:
This segment also contains a failed attempt, although this time it's only a partial clip. Real segment begins at 00:42. Looks like someone forgot to give Nate some trim instructions.
Duane and his guards goes down quickly. He targets Duane before the last guard probably to prevent him from getting off an Explosion which might happen if the runner were occupied with the second guard.
He contracts paralysis after a mistimed ward in the mines. Has to use an item to cure which costs 10 seconds as is also mentioned in the comments.
The fire elemental gets slaughtered in one long combo. The ogre battle goes quick and he gets semi-lucky to end the fight just as he missed the next timed hit.


Segment 4:
Another failed attempt included. The real segment begins at 2:30

The crab goes down switfly with a 21-hit chain and the runner reaches the lovely snowfly forest. Some excellent enemy avoiding taking place here. Especially with the view almost always being half obscured by the trees. He manages to get the first hit against the earth dragon which ain't an easy feat. Most of the times the dragon opens up with a spell before you can get even halfway towards him. He disposes of the dragon quickly. This was always an evil place. Not soon after you fought the fire elemental as a boss the game drops one onto you as a regular enemy. The runner makes haste and prevents him from getting off a fireball.

The end of the segment should be trimmed. Ends at 9:46.


Segment 5:
Eleven more failed attempts included! Real segment begins at 23:02. This is getting very annoying to verify. Some more communication between the runner and the encoder next time please. The audio desyncs pretty noticeable after around 16 minutes in this supposed to be 8 minute segment.

Skipping the first fire elemental is hard as the range of his fireball spell is pretty long.
A few seconds are lost due to failing to finish Grissom off in one combo. The dark crusader cooperates and has moved close during the fight which means it won't have time to fire it's drain attack. Lots of luck involved in this segment. Had to manage the fire elemental skip and had to receive a faerie wing in one of the two next enemies and have a grissom + dc fight without Sydney casting a heal. A close to perfect segment.


Segment 6:

More trimming needed. Real segment starts at 12:02
Rosencrantz is the high end of annoying bosses. Noone evades chains like he does. Doing this fight without raging ache would take forever.
These next town parts are famous for having blades casting self spells from across the other side of the map eating up alot of time. Unfortunately there's nothing to do about this. The first blade seems confused, running back and forth. The runner got by him without having to endure a herakles animation this time around.
Looses 6 seconds in the room before the dark elemental by getting hit by both enemies. As the runner showed in a previous attempt they are both avoidable.
As noted in the runners comments, a significant loss of time is created by taking the unneccessary extra cure bulb.
Obtains absorb magic, not a moment too soon as he needs it to survive just 20 seconds later.


Segment 7:

Segment begins at 07:25
More spellhappy blades passed. You just gotta love the '?' that show up above the blade that gets a prostasia from his comrade. They act so clueless at times.

The lich was always an easy boss and he goes down without much effort, although It's possible with some more luck to have him tele towards you faster than what he did here.

The runner has to stop and kill a quicksilver in 'Weapons not allowed'. This one seemed bent on striking him and he can't impact guard against silver weapons. Luckily, the quicksilver drops a mana bulb which pretty much makes up for the lost time of killing it. He gets past the remaining enemies without much disturbance. Looses a second by jumping in to the wall once just before the save point. Looses a few seconds due to menu handling. Although scrolling the item menu quickly is hard, the position of the mana tonic wasn't going to change during this segment so this could have been better memorized. This is just nitpicking though.

The segment ends at 16:28. the rest can be trimmed.


Segment 8:
This segment begins at 6:50.

The fight versus Tieger and Neesa ends when one of them is downed. Neesa has lower hp so she is the way to go. The runner makes quick work of her in one combo and is really favoured by that diabolos trap he stepped on earlier as his raging ache hits are very high.
Abit slow finding the mana tonic again. It would probably have been faster scrolling up to it instead of down.
Segment ends at 12:35


Segment 9:
This segment begins at 21:40
Not much to say here. Mostly breezing through the areas and takes down all 3 bosses quickly. A little slow getting to the faerie wing, would probably have been a second or two faster by scrolling upwards instead. The runner misses the first jump in the next room and hits a trap clear panel. Luckily this panel has the fastest animation of all panels so no more than 4 seconds are lost.
Messes up while saving by accidently pressing no instead of yes in the confirmation dialog which wastes approximately 4 seconds.

Segment ends at 32:14


Segment 10:
Segment starts at 3:56

The last crusader goes down in one combo. There would be no excuse for something other than that seeing as this was in the beginning of the segment. A little mishap in the puzzle room accidently climbing one of the boxes instead of pushing it. 2 seconds lost.
The runner deviates from his mantra of max 2 combos per boss here as he uses 3 for the minotaur. This looks like it definitely could have been done in 2 combos as both of his 2 first combos ended before reaching the twenties. Chaining consistently is hard, so I don't hold it against him for letting this pass while in mid-segment.
uh oh, gets caught by both the water elemental and the nightstalkers magic spells on the way back. They can both be avoided with a little luck.
Kali is put away in one combo and few missed. This feat makes up for some of the lost time on the minotaur lord.
Segment ends at 11:48


Segment 11:
Segment starts at 19:21

Marid blocks alot and it takes 3 combos to get him down. Since Marid doesn't get off any attacks in between there isn't much time lost initiating the third. Ifrit up next. The starting distance to him is so far that it is most unlikely that he won't be getting the chance to throw a fireball. The view to the left in the next room is splendid. Too bad we don't get to see it here. Damn so close to getting the djinn down in one combo, just needed one less miss. Instead the runner has to suffer through a lightning bolt animation and initiate a second combo. Almost immediately after we have a dragon
as the 4th boss of the segment. This one does like the rest and heads down after 2 combos.
The runner misses his jump and falls down a hole on the way back from the lich. This costs him 8 seconds. Some stumbling near the save point where he fails to jump up the small height twice.

This segment contained a few mistakes and feels like it could have been around 24 seconds
without the mistakes and some better luck versus the djinn. Despite all this I don't feel like rejecting this segment. This is by far the hardest and longest segment in the run and when looking at it as a whole, all bosses went down quickly and no regular enemy managed to get in neither a normal nor magic attack during the whole segment.

Segment ends at 33:06


Segment 12:
Segment begins at 1:44

The arch dragon really should have been downed in 2 combos.
Sweet, Dao was taken down in 1 combo. He tends to float away from the higher ledge if you let him have just a second so this was good. The runner misses the cloudstone on his way back. Catching this speedy stone is actually harder than it looks but the rhytm should have been practiced some more. Some of the time lost here is actually gained back by the fact that the runner now has lower hp and thus higher raging ache hits versus nightmare. The first combo versus nightmare is bad, ending at 10 already. No time is lost by the following dark chant as nightmare would be casting it anyways in between the first and second combo. This is unless he would be downed in one combo of course, but due to the high amount of parries nightmare does it is not realistically to expect a one combo here.
There's something about always messing up near the save point. The runner tries to jump up the last cloudstone with the sword still drawn costing him 3 seconds.

Segment ends at 11:17


Segment 13:
Segment starts at 2:55
Guildenstern 1 goes down quickly.
Accidently closes the target sphere when he reaches Guildenstern 2, looses 2 seconds.
Wow, Guildenstern 2 down in one combo and he only blocked one chain too.
The runner reloads his game clear data so that he's able to show the gazette and the final time.
The gazette doesn't show seconds though, so the final segment should be manually timed and added to the ingame time of the last save. The time for this segment (without counting frames) is 3 min 17 s if going by the the landing of the final hit. This makes the total time 1:58:45

Segment ends at 9:10


This run is far from perfect but the nature of this game prevents it from being so. Apart from a few menu and platform errors, it all boils down to obtaining high chain combos consistently combined with the luck of not getting misses. In this run, almost every enemy you meet will kill you in one move unless you manage to react accordingly. The timing of the reaction is different for most of the enemies you meet due to different usage of spells and weapon types combined with the different speeds of the enemies. So, the runner has certainly shown a high degree of skill and planning.

Verdiction: This is a sub-2 hour run of a difficult game that we don't yet have at SDA so it's an accept from me with hope that the runner will improve on this run in the future.


Quote:
Seg  Start    Finish    Video  Notes
01 | 0:00:00 | 0:15:56 | 00:00 | none
02 | 0:15:56 | 0:23:30 | 10:54 | none
03 | 0:23:30 | 0:36:59 | 00:49 | none
04 | 0:36:59 | 0:43:54 | 02:35 | none
05 | 0:43:54 | 0:51:26 | 23:05 | Audio isn't synced
06 | 0:51:26 | 1:00:52 | 12:08 | none
07 | 1:00:52 | 1:09:39 | 07:30 | none
08 | 1:09:39 | 1:15:12 | 06:54 | none
09 | 1:15:12 | 1:25:27 | 21:42 | none
10 | 1:25:27 | 1:32:57 | 03:59 | none
11 | 1:32:57 | 1:46:18 | 19:28 | none
12 | 1:46:18 | 1:55:28 | 01:49 | none
13 | 1:55:28 | 1:59:?? | 02:58 | none

These videos are in dire need of some editing to trim out the restarts. The video is very dark but it is consistantly so, There is a segment where the audio is not synced but the sound effects do corrispond to what is happening in game. So much for the quality of the video.

As for the quality of the run. This is a legit play through. I didn't spot anything that seemed suspicious of cheating. This is a high quality speed run with plenty of thought put into the route, abilities used, enemies that have to be defeated and to a lesser extent enemies which can be avoided.

Plenty of room for improvement though. The player relies too heavily on chain attacks in a game with plenty of other options. Also there are enemies that the player chooses to kill when it would be much faster to just heal yourself and take the brunt of the attack. The puzzles are highly optimised and the dodgy jumps have mostly been nailed on the first attempt so not much room for improvement there. I get the feeling that this run could very well have been achieved with fewer segments. Segments 8 and 9 could have been combined into a single segment lasting around 16 minutes. Long story short I verify that this run is a legitimate speed run.


Verdict: Accept

Reason: This is a long-overdue run, and it's sub-2 hours.
Thread title:  
Quote:
I am not frezy_man btw.

I believe it.
berserker status
Firstly, I want to thank you guys for considering my run SDA worthy.  I'm the first one to admit that it's far from perfect but i wouldn't have submitted if i didn't think it was solid.  I just want to address some issues raised by the verifiers.

Verifier #3

Segment 2:  I'm not sure you understood that I purposely kept that segment even though i don't learn Raging Ache until after the Dragon.  When I chain the first slime, I'm actually building up PP points for my Fandango so that I can actually deal out appreciable initial damage.  Luck doesn't have anything to do with dealing out significant damage against the Golem, the second slime, or the Dragon.  This strat is barely faster than getting Raging Ache earlier since to do that you have to spend more time chaining.

Everything else I pretty much agree with you:  some boss fights could be tighter and i fail some jumps at the Great Cathedral.  Also, as you saw in the failed attempts, it's possible to avoid some enemies like those Imps before the Dark Elemental and the Water Elemental & Nightstalker at the Temple of Kiltia.  I think the main thing about the Imps is not to get hit by their Numbness status attacks which would make me use a Spirit Orbison and cost significant time.  Dodging the elemental and Nightstalker is actually not as hard as it looks but that segment never agrees with me whether it's them, the Minotaur Lord avoiding my chains like mad, or having to absorb one of Kali's attacks (or even getting hit by a status attack from a Gremlin).

Verifier #4:

I'm actually pretty curious about some of your advice.  I don't profess to know VS 100% but what other method do you allude to other than chaining enemies?  Spells or Break Arts?  It's hard to deal out significant damage with spells considering you have low intelligence on 1st playthrough and the animations can be pretty slow at times (not to mention MP levels are really low).  It'd also be a waste of time to go out of your way and open chests for Grimoires.  Also, what enemies do you think that i shouldn't have killed?  It seems like you're onto something but i'm having trouble thinking which enemies specifically.  Also, about combining segs 8 & 9, i'm not sure i would be able to do that since segment 8 was nearly flawless and the Limestone Quarry can be very hard to complete as it is.  Besides the bosses, the Gremlins (with the exception of the first one) carry silver weapons so i have to manipulate them into casting spells since i can't impact guard their physical attacks.

Well, I guess that pretty much covers it.  Since i've completed the run, i've discovered a few shortcuts that can save me about ten secs. at least among other subtle improvements.  This is a run that I'm definitely going to improve in the future because I am greatly interested in optimizing the run to the max.  Of course to do that I'm gonna take my time as getting good luck in some of the segments is extremely difficult.  This is not the last time you'll see Agent Riot in action, I assure you.
Edit history:
sshplur: 2009-12-17 03:57:35 am
Is this the first non-final fantasy square game on sda?

Verifier 2's comments were pretty funny
You got a deletion wish?
Quote from sshplur:
Is this the first non-final fantasy square game on sda?


No.  First was "Super Mario RPG", run in '04 and I did "The Bouncer" in '06.  There's also ActRaiser but I don't know if that counts (no offense intended to VG).
Dum dee dum haah
Hey! There's also both Chrono games here Smiley
Waiting hurts my soul...
Quote from MatrixTN:
Quote from sshplur:
Is this the first non-final fantasy square game on sda?


No.  First was "Super Mario RPG", run in '04 and I did "The Bouncer" in '06.  There's also ActRaiser but I don't know if that counts (no offense intended to VG).

Well, that was published by enix before joining square, and it was developed by quintet, so I don't think it counts.
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote from MatrixTN:
Quote from sshplur:
Is this the first non-final fantasy square game on sda?


No.  First was "Super Mario RPG", run in '04 and I did "The Bouncer" in '06.  There's also ActRaiser but I don't know if that counts (no offense intended to VG).


No offense taken.
Edit history:
ZenicReverie: 2009-12-17 11:22:09 am
Waiting hurts my soul...
Quote from sshplur:
Is this the first non-final fantasy square game on sda?

Don't forget Brave Fencer Musashi.
"I'm actually pretty curious about some of your advice.  I don't profess to know VS 100% but what other method do you allude to other than chaining enemies? "

Two words... Dulling Impact + Paralysis Pulse

When you are NOT at a stage in the game with forced encounters these two battle abilities will ensure that you can simply walk away after one or the other has landed as some enemies are a worry with physical attacks others are more bother with magic. Hit them with both and these enemies become nothing more than props in the background.

"Also, what enemies do you think that i shouldn't have killed?"

The poison slime just before Golem in the Sanctum comes to mind its much faster to climb up the ledge to the right jump towards the door and then quickly heal yourself. By now the slime will most likely launch an attack but that heal will keep you alive. Is there a reason why you wasted the best part of a minute killing this creep. Does PP really matter that much in the fight with Golem? you would have built up a good 20 points of raw dmg chaining bonus if that time were spent chaining the Golem instead of killing the slime. whether you kill the slime or not when you emerge from the fight with Golem the slime aint there no more.
berserker status
Those are actually pretty good ideas Valendian, I never thought of those. 

Using Paralysis Chute/Dulling Impact will make some areas a whole lot easier (I'm thinking Abandoned Mines B1).  The only thing I would have to sort out is how that would factor into achieving enough Chain Points for Absorb Magic eventually.  In my run, I BARELY learned Absorb Magic in time at Bandit's Hollow so I'd have to figure out a strategy that reconciles that.  Plus, I would also have to decide which one to use since Ashley only has 3 slots Chain Abilities:  Raging Ache is essential whereas Heavy Shot helps big time since it was more than once where I barely squeaked by on the final miss.  But those would be helpful in later parts of the game for sure though  (maybe even against that fuckin' Dark Eye in Undercity West?).

I don't know about skipping that slime though since it's extremely helpful to get that meaty initial hit against the Golem.  I could build up Chain Points against him but the problem with that is not only would the first set of chains barely dent him, but it'd drive my Risk points up:  the Golem has some pretty decent evade on its body (although if I skipped the slime, my Risk points would probably be lower).  So yea, it'd take two chains to off him either way.  Also, those slimes cast those annoying poison status spells and they have decent range, I doubt I'd be able to get through the door without him getting anything off (or that bat for that matter).  Still, this is worth investigating though since there's quite a few ways to go about building up your PP in time.  I still say that building up enough PP while getting Chain Points is the way to go instead of getting long chains together to get Raging Ache early (again, the Risk Points would be a factor in the latter case). 

I'm glad you've put some thought into this, even though Babo's guide at GF's helped me a lot I had to figure out a lot of the actual stuff myself like which enemies to dodge, etc.  Any input is worth testing out since this game has pretty nice mechanics to be exploited.
Edit history:
Valendian: 2009-12-19 05:59:47 am
On a first playthrough I usually have Dulling Impact + Paralysis Pulse + Heavy Shot. Actually it's not until very late in the game that I manage to learn Raging Ache, even when I'm not trying to run through it quickly, because this combination is really that effective. You may still want to chain like crazy until you gain Raging Ache to help with the bosses but you can now be even more picky with the goons you have to rack some chain points on. When you get Raging Ache replace it for Paralysis Pulse and keep Dulling Impact cos its far more vital from a speedrun perspective. I would also forget about Absorb magic. MP, You aint gonna need it until you have to teleport backtrack. Save every mana bulb+root+potion you get for then.

Edit : and you probably already know that in the Great Cathedral where you have to descend a few stories via cloudstones. It's possible to fall direct to the bottom without touching land on the way, well maybe not all the way to the bottom but definately as far as you need to go. Aiming the camera diagonally will help.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-12-19 01:31:11 pm
berserker status
I am starting to see the wisdom in your words.  Using Paralysis Chute/Dulling Impact essentially renders Absorb Magic obsolete against regular enemies.  I'd probably have to replace Raging Ache temporarily when I want to get by enemies that cast spells but would have to reequip Raging Ache for bosses since it's the only way to deal out significant damage fast.  This method would obviously require more menu navigation but I'm pretty sure you'd save more net time since spells take foreverrrr.  If I don't get Absorb Magic by Bandit's Hollow then I may be forced to use a Cure Bulb since the second Imp tends to stay out of range and that'll consume time as well...that's one trade-off that I may have to take.  Thanks for the clarification, this definitely will be helpful if done in the right places.

About falling through the Great Cathedral:  I didn't know you could fall all the way to the bottom like that.  I can't remember if I did that at any point but if i do then it'd save a second or two.  I would have to fuck around with the camera angle to get it right though as you pointed out.

Edit:  I'd probably have to use Terra Guard against the Imp at Bandit's Hollow since equipping it is still faster than having to burn up a Cure Bulb.
RiskBreakerY just so you dont have any doubts about the speed of your world record regarding the Japanese version being faster here are the facts. Take them as fact if you like but so far as Im concerned these are the facts.

Both the Japanese and USA versions are NTSC which runs at 30 frames per second. There is no difference between the two. PAL runs at only 25 frames per second but the timing is calculated from the system clock which is standard and not frame dependant. The fact that english text may require more charictors during the target sphere etc is negliable as the playstation is capable of drawing many thousands of polygons each frame. There is a period that happens each frame called VBlank when the TV is ready to accept a new frame and it requires that the game has to wait for the TV to be ready. This gives more than enough time to negate all those extra polygons. So disabling the information text does not have any significant affect on the time to display a frame of graphics in game.

However during the cutscenes the dialog ballons draw text on a charictor by charictor basis. This is where that rumour that the Japanese game is faster has come from. And yes for dialog ballons it is faster to play the Japanese version of Vagrant Story.

However the fact that skipping all the cut scenes is a requirement for a speed run negates this little fact. So rest assured that your speed run is as fast as it could be regardless of which region the game is from. You did a great job putting this run together and I wont hear anyone saying that it could have been better if it were run on a Japanese version of the game when that is simply not true.
Edit history:
Rainman7: 2012-04-24 01:59:29 am
Rainman7: 2012-04-24 01:57:30 am
Rainman7: 2012-04-24 01:57:27 am
Rainman7: 2012-04-24 01:57:26 am
/fenix down! 

Just wanted to congratulate Yadir on what is nothing less than an Amazing run.  DAMN.  Smiley  Edit: sorry for the thread necromancy.