My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperSmashBros.html
Jeremy 'DK28' Doll's Donkey Kong and Ness runs
Verifier Responses
There was another verifier who accepted both runs and requested silence.
Decision: Accept and Reject
Reason: The DK run seems much improved and well-optimized, whereas the Ness run seems to be the opposite case.
Jeremy 'DK28' Doll's Donkey Kong and Ness runs
Verifier Responses
Quote:
DK
Link: 6 seconds (compared to the perfect 5). You know how I feel about this already. Without a godly Yoshi fight following, reset.
Yoshi: 20 seconds. Not quite godly, but not terrible either. No real screw-ups, just the Yoshi's didn't want to fall properly.
Fox: 8 seconds. One away from what I believe is "perfect."
BtT: 2 seconds. The usual
Bros: 12 seconds. Also the usual, but a bit smoother looking. Damn Luigi for screwing up the 10 second fight.
Pika: 6 seconds. 2 away from perfect, 1 faster than my failed perfect attempt. Kudos.
DK: 14 seconds. 4 slower than last time. I see a 7-8 second damage racked KO by combining Giant Punch with the damage racking strategy used here...
BtP: 12 second SD.
Kirby: 14 seconds, per the usual
Samus: 14 seconds. Why, oh why must I keep enduring horrible Samus fights? We've established that half of this time is possible, a 7-8 second fight, and instead we are made to watch...this.
Metal Mario: 5 seconds. If you grab him and jump, falling beneath the stage and throw him, he will do a bair almost every single time and die in 4 seconds instead. Still, great compared to the last no-death run fight here.
R2tF: 26 seconds. LOL at POed polygons.
Poly: 38 seconds. Basically the usual fight here, it seems.
Master Hand: 29 seconds. Incredible luck on MH's choice of attacks. Could have attacked him once during the rocket launch attack while he was passing from the background, and dj dair as he landed and pulled off a 27, but still one helluva fight.
Final Time: 3:26
Verdict: Rejection. While MUCH better than the original no-death submission, and slightly better than even the original death abuse submission, a phenominal master hand fight, and a pretty good yoshi, kirby, and polygon...it is still lacking in some areas. Mainly the samus fight, once again, but also the Giant DK fight. Those other few seconds should be shaved off if possible, but between DK and samus alone we should have a good 12-14 seconds faster next time. And again, I probably won't accept anything over 3:15 in this category. If you fix those two fights I mentioned, you already meet that criteria, and then some.
Ness
Link: 6 seconds. Probably the best we'll see here.
Yoshi: 29 seconds. My main gripe about this fight is all the throw downs. Ness' throws are SO slow, and a variety of other moves work just as well. Fair, bair, nair, dash attack. Any combination of these probably could have saved easily 5-6 seconds, perhaps as much as 9.
Fox: 12 seconds. Too slow. Fox started off badly by fleeing, and the runner used the dash attack too late, so that instead of damaging fox, the attack was cancelled out by fox's recovery attack, thus forcing an extra throw and so on. My solution to the problem is to simply start the dash attack sooner, so fox is damaged, forward throw to fair, djc dair.
BtT: 2 second suicide. No complaints here.
Bros: 15 seconds. Probably about 6-8 too slow. Mario should be KOed immediately, then Luigi follows very quickly. Must make use of djc spiking to do it properly.
Pika: 9 seconds. A very obvious missed opportunity when Pikachu jumps after being thrown. Djc spike for the win right there. Even if he tries to Up B to save himself, we still have a 6-7 second fight.
DK: 12 seconds. My only complaint is the barrel, but that couldn't be helped.
BtP: 5 seconds. I wonder if it's possible in 4 with an Up B once you reach the bottom? probably not, I haven't been able to do it anyway...
Kirby: 23 seconds. Probably 3 seconds worth of improvement...the options are really limited in this fight (throws only)
Samus: 21 seconds. What is it with this guy and the bounty hunter? Time after time, when I am not quite sure which way I am leaning with the run, Sammy comes along and blows everything to Hell. We should be looking at around a 10-12 second fight at very most here. Dash attack, back throw, forward throw, fair, djc acid spike, djc acid spike, forward throw for the KO.
Metal Mario: 11 seconds. I'm still looking into how to improve this, but for now it looks pretty solid.
R2tF: 29 seconds. Bad luck with the polygon attack and the explosion. Also, with anyone who is not DK, the runner should end the race with a dash attack for that extra burst of speed to try to get the timer one second faster.
Poly: 64 seconds (how poetic). I hated this fight. It was sloppy and slow. 4 polygons were KOed off the top of the screen, which obviously takes longer. At least a dozen were KOed by not being able to make it back to the stage rather than off the sides. The bumper was wasted (could have given several side KOs), and Blastoise was not able to KO a single polygon. Terrible fight, sorry to say.
Master Hand: 40 seconds. Both gun attacks could have used an extra up B energy shot, and also the runner should have tried to deflect the bullet with the fsmash for the extra damage. During the "rocket launch/landing" attack, master hand should have been attacked on the way past the stage from the background, and then techroll to fsmash upon MH's landing. LOTS of missed attacks. Should have utilized djc'ed attacks and mixed them up a bit to compensate for stale move depreciation. All things considered, a very sub-par fight.
Final Time: 4:38
Verdict: Rejection, based upon the Yoshi, Samus, and Polygon fights primarily. I think sub-4 is a good starting goal.
Link: 6 seconds (compared to the perfect 5). You know how I feel about this already. Without a godly Yoshi fight following, reset.
Yoshi: 20 seconds. Not quite godly, but not terrible either. No real screw-ups, just the Yoshi's didn't want to fall properly.
Fox: 8 seconds. One away from what I believe is "perfect."
BtT: 2 seconds. The usual
Bros: 12 seconds. Also the usual, but a bit smoother looking. Damn Luigi for screwing up the 10 second fight.
Pika: 6 seconds. 2 away from perfect, 1 faster than my failed perfect attempt. Kudos.
DK: 14 seconds. 4 slower than last time. I see a 7-8 second damage racked KO by combining Giant Punch with the damage racking strategy used here...
BtP: 12 second SD.
Kirby: 14 seconds, per the usual
Samus: 14 seconds. Why, oh why must I keep enduring horrible Samus fights? We've established that half of this time is possible, a 7-8 second fight, and instead we are made to watch...this.
Metal Mario: 5 seconds. If you grab him and jump, falling beneath the stage and throw him, he will do a bair almost every single time and die in 4 seconds instead. Still, great compared to the last no-death run fight here.
R2tF: 26 seconds. LOL at POed polygons.
Poly: 38 seconds. Basically the usual fight here, it seems.
Master Hand: 29 seconds. Incredible luck on MH's choice of attacks. Could have attacked him once during the rocket launch attack while he was passing from the background, and dj dair as he landed and pulled off a 27, but still one helluva fight.
Final Time: 3:26
Verdict: Rejection. While MUCH better than the original no-death submission, and slightly better than even the original death abuse submission, a phenominal master hand fight, and a pretty good yoshi, kirby, and polygon...it is still lacking in some areas. Mainly the samus fight, once again, but also the Giant DK fight. Those other few seconds should be shaved off if possible, but between DK and samus alone we should have a good 12-14 seconds faster next time. And again, I probably won't accept anything over 3:15 in this category. If you fix those two fights I mentioned, you already meet that criteria, and then some.
Ness
Link: 6 seconds. Probably the best we'll see here.
Yoshi: 29 seconds. My main gripe about this fight is all the throw downs. Ness' throws are SO slow, and a variety of other moves work just as well. Fair, bair, nair, dash attack. Any combination of these probably could have saved easily 5-6 seconds, perhaps as much as 9.
Fox: 12 seconds. Too slow. Fox started off badly by fleeing, and the runner used the dash attack too late, so that instead of damaging fox, the attack was cancelled out by fox's recovery attack, thus forcing an extra throw and so on. My solution to the problem is to simply start the dash attack sooner, so fox is damaged, forward throw to fair, djc dair.
BtT: 2 second suicide. No complaints here.
Bros: 15 seconds. Probably about 6-8 too slow. Mario should be KOed immediately, then Luigi follows very quickly. Must make use of djc spiking to do it properly.
Pika: 9 seconds. A very obvious missed opportunity when Pikachu jumps after being thrown. Djc spike for the win right there. Even if he tries to Up B to save himself, we still have a 6-7 second fight.
DK: 12 seconds. My only complaint is the barrel, but that couldn't be helped.
BtP: 5 seconds. I wonder if it's possible in 4 with an Up B once you reach the bottom? probably not, I haven't been able to do it anyway...
Kirby: 23 seconds. Probably 3 seconds worth of improvement...the options are really limited in this fight (throws only)
Samus: 21 seconds. What is it with this guy and the bounty hunter? Time after time, when I am not quite sure which way I am leaning with the run, Sammy comes along and blows everything to Hell. We should be looking at around a 10-12 second fight at very most here. Dash attack, back throw, forward throw, fair, djc acid spike, djc acid spike, forward throw for the KO.
Metal Mario: 11 seconds. I'm still looking into how to improve this, but for now it looks pretty solid.
R2tF: 29 seconds. Bad luck with the polygon attack and the explosion. Also, with anyone who is not DK, the runner should end the race with a dash attack for that extra burst of speed to try to get the timer one second faster.
Poly: 64 seconds (how poetic). I hated this fight. It was sloppy and slow. 4 polygons were KOed off the top of the screen, which obviously takes longer. At least a dozen were KOed by not being able to make it back to the stage rather than off the sides. The bumper was wasted (could have given several side KOs), and Blastoise was not able to KO a single polygon. Terrible fight, sorry to say.
Master Hand: 40 seconds. Both gun attacks could have used an extra up B energy shot, and also the runner should have tried to deflect the bullet with the fsmash for the extra damage. During the "rocket launch/landing" attack, master hand should have been attacked on the way past the stage from the background, and then techroll to fsmash upon MH's landing. LOTS of missed attacks. Should have utilized djc'ed attacks and mixed them up a bit to compensate for stale move depreciation. All things considered, a very sub-par fight.
Final Time: 4:38
Verdict: Rejection, based upon the Yoshi, Samus, and Polygon fights primarily. I think sub-4 is a good starting goal.
Quote:
DK run:
Quality (Capture)
Some VHS visual jaggies when the screen for VS Link appears.
Quality (Gameplay)
Team Yoshi and Fox each go 1 second faster.
Mario and Luigi go 12 seconds again.
Pikachu goes 1 second faster.
Giant DK goes 4 second slower, putting him 1 second behind again.
Team Kirby goes 1 second slower.
Samus goes 4 seconds faster than the last rejected attempt, but it still seems more time can be saved if the fight didn't go so bad.
Metal Mario gets finished off in 5 seconds, which is 9 seconds faster than the last attempt.
Race to the finish goes 1 second faster.
Team Polygon goes 2 seconds faster.
master Hand goes 6 seconds faster.
Timing
Link: 6 seconds
Team Yoshi: 20 seconds
Fox: 8 seconds
Break the Targets: 2 seconds
Mario Bros.: 12 seconds
Pikachu: 6 seconds
Giant DK: 14 seconds
Board the Platforms: 12 seconds
Team Kirby: 14 seconds
Samus: 14 seconds
Metal Mario: 5 seconds
Race to the Finish: 26 seconds
Team Polygon: 38 seconds
Master Hand: 29 seconds
Overall time:
3:26 [I think]
Importance
Though he's making great improvements, and not even using death abuse, Giant DK and Samus still need work. I was going to reject this, but since it beats the current time by 2 seconds, I guess we should post it after all.
Ness run:
Quality (Capture)
Nothing out of whack to report... in terms of capture quality.
Quality (Gameplay)
The Yoshi team has some missed shots, and some hits that aren't fatal.
Though the ending to the Mario Bros. fight is impressive, the lead up to it is not. It could have been handled a lot better.
The Pikachu fight has a missed grab and somewhat of a delayed reaction.
His Giant DK fight is actually alright.
I think the Kirby fight could be handled a lot better too, especially during the end.
Oh God, not even Metroid Fusion went this badly. Samus survived a hit she normally wouldn't have, and dodges the attacks, costing him at least 8 seconds.
Loses 3 seconds when he hits a bomb during race to the finish.
Team Polygon needs a lot of work. They survive quite a bit of his attacks and make it back to the stage. He alos wastes some items and star KOs some of them.
Misses lots of hits on Master Hand.
Timing
Link: 6 seconds
Team Yoshi: 29 seconds
Fox: 12 seconds
Break the Targets: 2 seconds
Mario Bros.: 15 seconds
Pikachu: 9 seconds
Giant DK: 12 seconds
Board the Platforms: 5 seconds
Team Kirby: 23 seconds
Samus: 21 seconds
Metal Mario: 11 seconds
Race to the Finish: 29 seconds
Team Polygon: 1 minute 4 seconds seconds
Master Hand: 40 seconds
Overall time:
4 minutes, 38 seconds
Importance
There's a great moment in the early part of this video that foreshadows the rest of the speedrun and the impression it will leave with the viewers. It's during the start of the third fight, where Fox, already realizing where this run is heading, decides to just walk away instantly. I don't blame him, because I should have done the same soon after. The Samus and Team Polygon fights are reasons enough why this run should have never made it to this stage. If any other verifiers vote to accept this run, I will hunt them down and slap them in the face with my dick - multiple times. I will also film it and put it on the internet. I might even ask nate to host it here on SDA to set an example of what will happen to those that would dare compromise the integrity of Speed Demos Archive by allowing these kinds of runs on it.
Quality (Capture)
Some VHS visual jaggies when the screen for VS Link appears.
Quality (Gameplay)
Team Yoshi and Fox each go 1 second faster.
Mario and Luigi go 12 seconds again.
Pikachu goes 1 second faster.
Giant DK goes 4 second slower, putting him 1 second behind again.
Team Kirby goes 1 second slower.
Samus goes 4 seconds faster than the last rejected attempt, but it still seems more time can be saved if the fight didn't go so bad.
Metal Mario gets finished off in 5 seconds, which is 9 seconds faster than the last attempt.
Race to the finish goes 1 second faster.
Team Polygon goes 2 seconds faster.
master Hand goes 6 seconds faster.
Timing
Link: 6 seconds
Team Yoshi: 20 seconds
Fox: 8 seconds
Break the Targets: 2 seconds
Mario Bros.: 12 seconds
Pikachu: 6 seconds
Giant DK: 14 seconds
Board the Platforms: 12 seconds
Team Kirby: 14 seconds
Samus: 14 seconds
Metal Mario: 5 seconds
Race to the Finish: 26 seconds
Team Polygon: 38 seconds
Master Hand: 29 seconds
Overall time:
3:26 [I think]
Importance
Though he's making great improvements, and not even using death abuse, Giant DK and Samus still need work. I was going to reject this, but since it beats the current time by 2 seconds, I guess we should post it after all.
Ness run:
Quality (Capture)
Nothing out of whack to report... in terms of capture quality.
Quality (Gameplay)
The Yoshi team has some missed shots, and some hits that aren't fatal.
Though the ending to the Mario Bros. fight is impressive, the lead up to it is not. It could have been handled a lot better.
The Pikachu fight has a missed grab and somewhat of a delayed reaction.
His Giant DK fight is actually alright.
I think the Kirby fight could be handled a lot better too, especially during the end.
Oh God, not even Metroid Fusion went this badly. Samus survived a hit she normally wouldn't have, and dodges the attacks, costing him at least 8 seconds.
Loses 3 seconds when he hits a bomb during race to the finish.
Team Polygon needs a lot of work. They survive quite a bit of his attacks and make it back to the stage. He alos wastes some items and star KOs some of them.
Misses lots of hits on Master Hand.
Timing
Link: 6 seconds
Team Yoshi: 29 seconds
Fox: 12 seconds
Break the Targets: 2 seconds
Mario Bros.: 15 seconds
Pikachu: 9 seconds
Giant DK: 12 seconds
Board the Platforms: 5 seconds
Team Kirby: 23 seconds
Samus: 21 seconds
Metal Mario: 11 seconds
Race to the Finish: 29 seconds
Team Polygon: 1 minute 4 seconds seconds
Master Hand: 40 seconds
Overall time:
4 minutes, 38 seconds
Importance
There's a great moment in the early part of this video that foreshadows the rest of the speedrun and the impression it will leave with the viewers. It's during the start of the third fight, where Fox, already realizing where this run is heading, decides to just walk away instantly. I don't blame him, because I should have done the same soon after. The Samus and Team Polygon fights are reasons enough why this run should have never made it to this stage. If any other verifiers vote to accept this run, I will hunt them down and slap them in the face with my dick - multiple times. I will also film it and put it on the internet. I might even ask nate to host it here on SDA to set an example of what will happen to those that would dare compromise the integrity of Speed Demos Archive by allowing these kinds of runs on it.
There was another verifier who accepted both runs and requested silence.
Decision: Accept and Reject
Reason: The DK run seems much improved and well-optimized, whereas the Ness run seems to be the opposite case.
Thread title: