Super Paper Mario (Wii)

2007-04-27 11:50:55 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

Whoa I knew this day would come. Good run so far.

I_HATE_SDA

2007-04-28 12:19:20 am

I HATE SDA!! (Kirby8943)

Good run, although the first few segments are all easy so I'll have to see more to determine if your talented. Good luck! Grin

2007-04-28 12:24:43 am

This should be obvious, but after visiting the heart pillars, use the return pipe to skip walking back to the top of Flipside Tower.

Satoryu

2007-04-28 12:30:58 am

Visually Appealing

very good. for 1-1, i have a few questions.

the chain kill at 4:10 looked awkward. don't hold 2 after hitting the Koopa. or any enemy for that matter. i don't recall it helping anywhere.

wouldn't it be better to flip and walk around the pipes at 5:17?

and is it possible to skip the Mega Star?

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2007-04-28 12:39:18 am

2007-04-28 12:38:54 am

Is the star in 1-1 absolutely required to complete the level? Otherwise, it looks like it might be faster to skip it because of how long it takes to grow.

EDIT: Didn't notice Satoryu already asked that. >_> Sorry.

Edit history:

MrGuy: 2007-04-28 12:47:27 am

2007-04-28 12:39:08 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtkXq-14Ao

Kirby8943, KingCTTR: Thanks.

MrPotter: >_< I never thought of that.

Satoryu: Yeah, in retrospect that would actually be better. I think it's possible to skip the Mega Star, but I didn't because of experience points which will be needed later.

Looks like I have to redo Segment 2. I'll get started on that later. =P

Also, for Fracktail, I know there's a way to not fall off him (jump back on his head), but I keep missing the jump by an inch. How exactly do I do this jump?

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2007-04-28 12:52:13 am

2007-04-28 12:42:34 am

Dunno about the Fracktail jump, I've never done it myself.

Also, I found earlier today or yesterday IIRC that you can flip, walk almost completely off a ledge, then flip back. You'll be hovering in midair (where it tells you to press 2), so you can get a tiny bit of extra distance with this. The only potential use for this that I can think of is skipping Red's bridge (and maybe Green's), which I will test when I finally finish the game and get around to playing through again.

EDIT: In 1-2, immediately after Thoreau, why did you flip back to 2D before entering the pipe?

EDIT 2: Looks like you accidentally went the wrong way for a second when you entered Green's house...

illuminated

2007-04-28 12:59:27 am

Tell me you at least beat this game first.

2007-04-28 01:01:37 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtkXq-14Ao

MrPotter: I flipped back to 2D because for some reason I can never get the pipe in 3D, and yeah, I did accidentally go the wrong way for a second >_<

Illuminated: Yes, I did.

I_HATE_SDA

Kirby8943

Edit history:

Kirby8943: 2007-04-28 01:05:25 am

2007-04-28 01:04:58 am

I HATE SDA!! (Kirby8943)

I tried to skip the mega star and I THINK it's possible but I'm 85% sure that it's slower to run through all the crap without the star.

illuminated

2007-04-28 01:24:13 am

Quote:

Illuminated: Yes, I did.

Ah...then permission granted.

Aeolocphry

2007-04-28 02:05:31 am

Well I did my own run in SPM a while ago, and the fastest time I've gotten was 6:41. I made a few mistakes here and there, though, so I'm guessing if anybody finds some nice sequence breaks or useful glitches sub-6 would be possible. Those segments look nice; good luck in the rest of your run. Wink

Amazing Ampharos

2007-04-28 04:52:15 am

I doubt leveling will really speed up the game that much. Bowser with Thudley will be able to quickly handle most bosses even with the experience you just get running along (since at level 3, Bowser with Thudley does 8 damage). You can abuse enemy item drops for double attack items to speed up the higher HP bosses as well.

I still think it's too early. This game will require a good deal of route planning and some well crafted boss strategies.

Segment comments, and I'll be honest which will probably come off as rude:

1-1: I think it's faster to say No to Bestovius and then Yes to his second question(a bit less dialogue, not much). You also should have gotten the hidden Fire Burst as you'll need it to revive Peach before 2-1, and it's faster to grab it now than to buy it later. You messed up the jump onto the Koopa after going through the first star door which is a pretty major mistake in this easy of a segment. In general, I have to say that I think you spend too much time flipping back and forth. You take 1 HP of damage and get very minorly delayed when your flip meter runs out. You should probably just flip and stay flipped unless you're going to run out of flip multiple times while not getting any navigational advantages from being flipped as the animation of flipping is slower than that of getting hit, and while flipped you can quickly navigate many obstacles (see, pipes in the last room). I'm pretty sure you move at the same speed whether you are flipped or not except 3d has fewer obstacles. As per the Mega Star, yeah, it's almost certainly faster to skip it(just use flip if obstacles would slow you down!). And yeah, it's possible to skip; I've done it before, not that it makes sense for a temporary power up to be required as you could just waste it and then get stuck if it were required. If you want to harvest EXP in this segment (though I doubt there's any real need), trap the koopa going down the stairs and do the SMB "1-up stairs" trick. Just be sure to quit fast enough so that you don't get negative experience! Eh, it's probably not worth it either, but if you really want to harvest EXP, I'm pretty sure it's a faster way.

1-2: At the very start, why did you jump up onto those blocks? You lost a bit of time by messing that up; it would be easier to just stay on the bottom. I stand by what I said about flipping as per what you do in the second room, but overall I think this is a better segment than the first. Still, you have a few movement optimization things you might want to touch up on. There's not much to this segment (really straightforward, unless it can be sequence broken) so it's probably a good idea to put most of your effort into minor optimizations.

1-3: O'Chunks is the biggest issue in this segment(he's really the only one; the rest is ridiculously simple), and I dont' see your strategy being the fastest one. I think it should be possible to get more "multibounces" and hit him twice after each one of his attacks, effectively cutting the fight down to about 2/3 to 1/2 of the current time. I know O'Chunks can be pretty random which makes this fight probably the hardest part of world 1, but getting a good fight could make a really big time difference.

Also, on another note, does anyone have an item drop chart? Abusing the double attack items will be really important for speed in general, and it would be good to see just what can drop those. I really like this game a lot, and I think it has the potential to make a very interesting run. Still, I get a sense that you aren't spending a whole lot of time optimizing these segments, perhaps because they're early game on really "easy" levels.

Mr. Potter's shenanagans with flipping should mostly be useful to avoid having to use Peach in later levels to cross some shorter gaps. Peach is a terrible character who moves slower than Mario with little advantage so of course minimizing her use would be great!

I doubt leveling will really speed up the game that much.  Bowser with Thudley will be able to quickly handle most bosses even with the experience you just get running along (since at level 3, Bowser with Thudley does 8 damage).  You can abuse enemy item drops for double attack items to speed up the higher HP bosses as well.

I still think it's too early.  This game will require a good deal of route planning and some well crafted boss strategies.

Segment comments, and I'll be honest which will probably come off as rude:

1-1: I think it's faster to say No to Bestovius and then Yes to his second question(a bit less dialogue, not much).  You also should have gotten the hidden Fire Burst as you'll need it to revive Peach before 2-1, and it's faster to grab it now than to buy it later.  You messed up the jump onto the Koopa after going through the first star door which is a pretty major mistake in this easy of a segment.  In general, I have to say that I think you spend too much time flipping back and forth.  You take 1 HP of damage and get very minorly delayed when your flip meter runs out.  You should probably just flip and stay flipped unless you're going to run out of flip multiple times while not getting any  navigational advantages from being flipped as the animation of flipping is slower than that of getting hit, and while flipped you can quickly navigate many obstacles (see, pipes in the last room).  I'm pretty sure you move at the same speed whether you are flipped or not except 3d has fewer obstacles.  As per the Mega Star, yeah, it's almost certainly faster to skip it(just use flip if obstacles would slow you down!).  And yeah, it's possible to skip; I've done it before, not that it makes sense for a temporary power up to be required as you could just waste it and then get stuck if it were required.  If you want to harvest EXP in this segment (though I doubt there's any real need), trap the koopa going down the stairs and do the SMB "1-up stairs" trick.  Just be sure to quit fast enough so that you don't get negative experience!  Eh, it's probably not worth it either, but if you really want to harvest EXP, I'm pretty sure it's a faster way.

1-2: At the very start, why did you jump up onto those blocks?  You lost a bit of time by messing that up; it would be easier to just stay on the bottom.  I stand by what I said about flipping as per what you do in the second room, but overall I think this is a better segment than the first.  Still, you have a few movement optimization things you might want to touch up on.  There's not much to this segment (really straightforward, unless it can be sequence broken) so it's probably a good idea to put most of your effort into minor optimizations.

1-3: O'Chunks is the biggest issue in this segment(he's really the only one; the rest is ridiculously simple), and I dont' see your strategy being the fastest one.  I think it should be possible to get more "multibounces" and hit him twice after each one of his attacks, effectively cutting the fight down to about 2/3 to 1/2 of the current time.  I know O'Chunks can be pretty random which makes this fight probably the hardest part of world 1, but getting a good fight could make a really big time difference.

Also, on another note, does anyone have an item drop chart?  Abusing the double attack items will be really important for speed in general, and it would be good to see just what can drop those.  I really like this game a lot, and I think it has the potential to make a very interesting run.  Still, I get a sense that you aren't spending a whole lot of time optimizing these segments, perhaps because they're early game on really "easy" levels.

Mr. Potter's shenanagans with flipping should mostly be useful to avoid having to use Peach in later levels to cross some shorter gaps.  Peach is a terrible character who moves slower than Mario with little advantage so of course minimizing her use would be great!

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2007-04-28 07:15:56 am

2007-04-28 07:13:43 am

Retired

http://www.thehylia.com/super_paper_mario_visual_guide.php

Ignore Chapters 1-2 because I didn't try on them- they were first play throughts.

Chapters 3-8 I actually knew what I was doing - they were second playthroughs.

Just so you know, my first ever playthrough I got just under 10 hours. This game can easily be done faster...I'm thinking under 6/5 hours at least.

Edit: All "codes" and "directions" are the same each time, so memorization helps.

I am positive you can rape the bosses in this game, especially the final boss...I know you can just infinite "jump" on his head and with a Double Attack it will be over in less than a minute.

For bugs, start trying to see if you can exploit going between 2D and 3D when you will appear behind "solid objects" in 2D coming out of 3D. There are also bound to be mad jump tricks somewhere.

2007-04-28 02:48:34 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

I can't wait till this comes out in Europe. I'll defintely do a run so far so good. When are you going to upload more segments?

Edit history:

MrGuy: 2007-04-29 05:26:51 pm

2007-04-28 06:54:47 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtkXq-14Ao

Thanks for the tips, everybody. I've redone my segments, with improvements totaling 39 seconds.

Segment 2 Re-Improved (20-second improvement):

Segment 3 Improved (6-second improvement):

Segment 4 Improved(26-second improvement):

(EDIT: The original improvements were removed to save space on my YouTube account.)

Major Mistakes:

In Segment 2, I forgot to grab the Fire Burst, and in Segment 4 I took a lot of damage to O'Chunks (he didn't get to ground-pound me or throw me, thankfully). Segment 4 isn't as clean as the others as a result.

I_HATE_SDA

Kirby8943

Edit history:

Kirby8943: 2007-04-28 07:05:08 pm

2007-04-28 07:04:37 pm

I HATE SDA!! (Kirby8943)

Much much better! Grin

I hope you continue the run and good luck.

2007-04-28 07:40:29 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

That critical health thing is gonna waste a bit of time. Try and keep your health high or your run is gonna luck sloppy as well.

2007-04-28 07:45:52 pm

O'Chunks fight could've been much improved. And you should have restarted the segment when you realized you'd forgotten the Fire Burst.

Also seems like you're still flipping a little too much. It's definitely better than before, but try only flipping when it's absolutely necessary.

Yoshi348

2007-04-28 07:57:22 pm

dinosaur from the past

I'd like to mention 3 things:

1) Even if this is too early, at least we can talk about stuff that makes it not too early anymore.

2) On the final O'Chunks fight, I got into a pattern where basically I jumped off his head into the air, did the left-right-left-right stylish to hang in the air at the peak of the jump, causing O'Chunks to jump into my waiting feet, stylish, repeat.

3) Against Count Bleck at the end he sort of dashed up and left and I like somehow stomped him like 3 or 4 times within like a second.

Amazing Ampharos

Edit history:

Amazing Ampharos: 2007-04-28 08:09:16 pm

2007-04-28 08:06:30 pm

You only get warned about going into critical the first time. If you save time from taking the damage, there's no reason to worry about it. You'll almost certainly enter critical at least once during an optimized run just from running out your flip meter.

1-1: Indeed much improved, but yeah, you'll need that Fire Burst; it really does mean a substanitive amount of time. Other than the obvious mistakes like that hit after Bestovius, I also have to point out a few things. It's really possible and probably a bit faster to do the entire second room flipped. Yeah, I know those jumps get harder when flipped, but hey, for the sake of speed! Also, you seem to jump quite a bit in the last room when nearing enemies that are in 2d. If you're in 3d and the enemy is in 2d, the enemy simply cannot hit you. Just keep on running and ignore them.

1-2: This one's pretty good, and yeah; it's amazing what optimization can do to a time! The only detail I can think of changing in terms of the plan would be talking to Red from the foot of his bed so that Mario has to walk a shorter distance, but that's extremely minor.

1-3: After using the flip to cross that gap of sand, you should stay flipped until you pass that block barrier. You lost a bit of time jumping over it in 2d. Your O'Chunks strategy was a much better one this time, and I think it's the right one, but O'Chunks didn't cooperate and cost both a lot of time and health. "Cleaning it up" would be the biggest improvement you could make to this segment.

So yeah, 39 seconds of improvement on the first 3 chapters is good, but you could probably shave off a bit more.

EDIT: What do you mean by "flipping too much" Mr. Potter? If you mean the process of switching, I'd agree to a degree(though his first attempt was worse about this), but if you mean just being in 3d, I'd disagree. Being flipped is so fast in general; I'd stand by the statement that once you find a reason to flip that you should probably stay flipped unless you're going to run out of meter multiple times without avoiding anything thanks to the flip.

You only get warned about going into critical the first time.  If you save time from taking the damage, there's no reason to worry about it.  You'll almost certainly enter critical at least once during an optimized run just from running out your flip meter.

1-1: Indeed much improved, but yeah, you'll need that Fire Burst; it really does mean a substanitive amount of time.  Other than the obvious mistakes like that hit after Bestovius, I also have to point out a few things.  It's really possible and probably a bit faster to do the entire second room flipped.  Yeah, I know those jumps get harder when flipped, but hey, for the sake of speed!  Also, you seem to jump quite a bit in the last room when nearing enemies that are in 2d.  If you're in 3d and the enemy is in 2d, the enemy simply cannot hit you.  Just keep on running and ignore them.

1-2: This one's pretty good, and yeah; it's amazing what optimization can do to a time!  The only detail I can think of changing in terms of the plan would be talking to Red from the foot of his bed so that Mario has to walk a shorter distance, but that's extremely minor.

1-3: After using the flip to cross that gap of sand, you should stay flipped until you pass that block barrier.  You lost a bit of time jumping over it in 2d.  Your O'Chunks strategy was a much better one this time, and I think it's the right one, but O'Chunks didn't cooperate and cost both a lot of time and health.  "Cleaning it up" would be the biggest improvement you could make to this segment.

So yeah, 39 seconds of improvement on the first 3 chapters is good, but you could probably shave off a bit more.

EDIT: What do you mean by "flipping too much" Mr. Potter?  If you mean the process of switching, I'd agree to a degree(though his first attempt was worse about this), but if you mean just being in 3d, I'd disagree.  Being flipped is so fast in general; I'd stand by the statement that once you find a reason to flip that you should probably stay flipped unless you're going to run out of meter multiple times without avoiding anything thanks to the flip.

2007-04-28 08:35:49 pm

Quote:

EDIT: What do you mean by "flipping too much" Mr. Potter? If you mean the process of switching, I'd agree to a degree(though his first attempt was worse about this), but if you mean just being in 3d, I'd disagree. Being flipped is so fast in general; I'd stand by the statement that once you find a reason to flip that you should probably stay flipped unless you're going to run out of meter multiple times without avoiding anything thanks to the flip.

I mean the process of flipping. Basically the same thing you said about being flipped through all of the second room of 1-1.

Edit history:

MrGuy: 2007-04-28 08:44:46 pm

2007-04-28 08:38:08 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtkXq-14Ao

Thanks for the tips, everybody.

Amazing Ampharos: I don't think you can do all of the second room in 3D; I've tried to jump over the first gap in 3D, and I always fell short. So basically it's just doing the staircase in 3D, which is only 2 or so seconds saved. But I'll re-redo Segment 1 to get the Fire Burst anyway, so I'll see what parts I can do. And yeah, I will be re-redoing Segment 3 as well to get a better O'Chunks fight.

MrPotter: There were only two spots where I switched unnecessarily; the second room in 1-1 and after the quicksand in 1-3, both of which Amazing Ampharos pointed out.

EDIT: I just realized that if I do a redo of 1-1, I need to put the hit after Bestovius in too (or have some extra 3D time) to keep up consistency between segments, because I don't want to redo 1-2 (I probably won't get the timing that perfectly again).