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Expert SS run
Verifier Responses
Where Verifier 1 put 9:09:33, that was a link to a YouTube video of a run of his with that time. I'll let him post it if he wants to share it.
Decision: Reject
Reason: Too many possible improvements to make.
This run will be available for a month. PM me for a link.
Expert SS run
Verifier Responses
Quote:
Level (Time remaining/time elapsed)
E1 (28.26/1.74): May seem picky, but this is honestly a pretty slow start; you should get at least .28 almost every time, and .30 more often than not. It's only a few frames though.
E2 (23.00/7.00): This can be done about three seconds faster pretty easily.
E5 (27.13/2.87): Fine.
E6 (40.60/19.40): The stage can be done over 10 seconds faster; it's somewhat difficult, but this is the fourth stage in the run. :\ There's no reason not to do this strat.
E7 (36.11/23.89): A bit slow. You can turn around and shortcut across at the beginning to save some time but it's annoying.
E8 (26.31/3.69): Fine.
E9 (43.30/16.70): ...Why did he do this level normally??? You can shortcut straight to the goal area pretty easily, which saves over 10 seconds.
E10 (26.65/3.35): Fine.
E11 (18.43/11.57): Okay. Could have been a bit faster.
E12 (46.15/13.85): Why did he go against the gears here? :\ That cost him a few seconds.
E13 (55.28/4.72): Well, that was bad. Getting across cleanly is incredibly easy.
E14 (52.68/7.32): Pretty slow getting through the last set of bumpers.
E15 (28.20/1.80): Getting above 28.30 is really easy.
E16 (27.41/2.59): You can fall off the side and get a low 27.6x/high 27.5x every time.
E17 (22.60/7.40): Fine.
E18 (20.88/9.12): A bit slow here.
E19 (55.68/4.32): It's possible to keep bouncing straight up to the goal, but this stage is stupid.
E20 (27.61/2.39): Fine.
E21 (55.90/4.10): A tiny bit slow here; I can get above 56.00 almost every time.
E22 (50.80/9.20): He slowed down a lot while crossing the letters, and not going straight for the goal once reaching the center of the A cost some time.
E23 (25.65/4.35): Getting mid-to-high 26.xx is very easy.
E24 (26.75/33.25): You can bounce against the path when taking the shortcut, which saves some time.
E25 (16.05/13.95): ...This was incredibly slow. You can easily get over 23.00 here.
E26 (24.63/5.37): He should have fallen off to the side of the first platform instead of at the front.
E27 (47.06/12.94): Doing it normally like this is way to slow... You can quickly skip across the path instead. Admittedly it's kind of hard; but this is a speedrun, you should be taking some risks. (and even if you were to die once it would still be faster than this run's completion)
E28 (55.48/4.52): It's faster to fall off earlier and bounce along the track into the goal.
E29 (53.08/6.92): Fine.
E30 (57.31/2.69): Fine.
E31 (26.25/3.75): It's possible to bounce off the side of the second platform straight to the goal platform, though it can be kind of annoying; at the very least he shouldn't have backed up at the beginning before crossing to the second platform.
E32 (34.13/25.87): You can shortcut to the goal and skip the thin wires at the end, but it's really stupid. His navigation of the wires was really slow, though, and cost a decent amount of time.
E33 (24.86/5.14): He should have taken a lower (and shorter) path here. That combined with trouble getting into the goal cost him about a second.
E34 (25.46/4.54): Don't know why he took his time so much with crossing the barrels. :\
E35 (55.63/4.37): Kind of slow.
E36 (15.06/14.94): You can cut in front of the first bumper, which saves about 1.5 seconds.
E37 (26.48/3.52): Uh... Why did he slow down after getting bounced up? Anyway, there's a really really easy strat that gets 27.13 almost every time.
E38 (22.91/7.09): He could have been about .2-.3 quicker getting into the goal.
E39 (24.51/5.49): He should've kept going to the third platform instead of stopping on the second.
E40 (26.88/3.12): After falling off the platform he should have let go of the control stick; spinning around slowed his descent.
E41 (26.51/3.49): You can bounce off the side of the bowl straight into the goal instead of going all the way around.
E42 (58.18/1.82): lol at the pausing. Pretty ironic. It does seem to work pretty well here though.
E45 (14.70/15.30): He should have gotten a running start for the second set of rotating platforms.
E46 (17.95/12.05): Really slow here. I can get 3-4 seconds faster almost every time. :\
E48 (14.73/15.27): There's a couple of places you can cut across the track. They can be somewhat annoying, but at least one of them should be done.
E49 (27.71/2.29): 28.3x is incredibly easy.
E50 (20.35/9.65): You can get bounced up into the goal, though it can be difficult. I probably wouldn't have gone for it.
EX1 (21.73/8.27): You can shortcut to the platforms while they're at the left at the beginning, and save a cycle, though it's kind of hard.
EX2 (24.40/5.60): There's a better path he could have taken that saves around a second.
EX3 (21.50/8.50): It's possible to run at the goal sooner, which saves about 3 seconds.
EX4 (25.70/4.30): No clue why he bounces on a second Ferris Wheel platform instead of going straight for the goal.
EX5 (19.63/10.37): Okay, this was really bad. He attempts a pausing strat, fails it, then goes for a much slower alternative... When that pausing strat isn't even the fastest method in the first place.
EX6 (21.18/8.82): You can bounce off the top of the pipe straight to the goal. Plus it looks completely awesome.
EX7 (19.66/10.34): Pretty slow crossing the stage. He was lucky to have made it in time at all, for that matter...
EX8 (25.15/4.85): Well, you can shortcut across the V to the goal, but screw this stage.
EX9 (18.65/11.35): He should have skipped some of the platforms instead of bouncing on every single one.
EX10 (16.00/14.00): He should have gotten a running start before the last piece was knocked away.
M1 (40.80/19.20): Well, since he's already attempted some pause strats, if you pause at 56.40 then hold forward you'll complete the stage with 43.01 remaining every time. It is a 1 frame window though. Even without it this was a bit slow, you should be getting above 41 every time (preferably close to 41.50).
M2 (41.86/18.14): Why did he do this normally? Dropping straight to the bottom is really easy.
M3 (36.43/23.57): ...
M4 (46.45/13.55): He slowed down a ton at the end, though it's understandable considering the roll likes to randomly pop you into the air if you're going too fast.
M5 (55.35/4.65): You can move through the blocks instead of dodging them to the side, which would save about a second.
M6 (58.53/1.47): You should get over 58.60 every time here...
M7 (42.78/17.22): It's possible to fall straight into the goal at the beginning, but that's way too difficult and definitely not end-of-a-SS material. The ending could be over a second faster, though, by bouncing off the wall into the goal.
M8 (56.53/3.47): You can get hit by some of the poles into the goal, but it doesn't seem to be as consistent as I remember it... There must be some trick to it that I've forgotten about. :\
M9 (24.65/35.35): Okay, that was horrendous. You should not be taking the wires that slowly in a speedrun. For the sake of comparison, my old 9999 PP run finished this stage about 2 1/2 seconds slower, when A. I didn't shortcut the beginning, which would have saved around 14 seconds, and B. I wasn't aiming for speed.
M10 (49.46/10.54): And he misses the goal and loses a bunch of time; certainly not the best way to cap off the run. :\
Was this run done during a race? It would certainly explain some of the strats and the execution. It does not excuse them, however; SDA is not the place for runs that are built around one-shot-run strats. :\ Another thing I noticed is that there were a lot of places boosting (holding up-left/up-right at the beginning of the stage) should have been used but wasn't; this is such a basic trick, and honestly makes it appear that not much effort went into researching tricks and strats.
Also, a few years back I was planning on doing a run of this myself (though I lost interest pretty quickly). My goal with the strats I planned to use was around 7:15-7:30; this run's time is 10:12.27, almost three minutes slower. Three minutes is a ton when the time is this short.
So I'm going to have to REJECT this run. Tons of strats are very easily (and sometimes massively) improvable, and the execution was just slow in general.
Edit: I don't know if the replies below will be included in the topic, so I'll just add this to my post:
The point is, there's a lot of stages where there's really no reason at all for not being half a second to a second faster. And yeah, that alone likely wouldn't get a reject; it's that along with the large improvements possible on E6 (10-12 seconds), E9 (10 seconds), E25 (7 seconds), E27 (8 seconds), EX5 (7 seconds), M2 (13 seconds), M3 (17-18 seconds), M9 (If you do the second shortcut, nearly half a minute! But at the very least it shouldn't be 12 seconds slower than a not-speedrun on the final wires), and M10 (7 seconds), as well as decent improvements (2-5 seconds) on E2, E12, E32, E46, EX3, EX6, and EX7. There's about 15 stages I consider "acceptable" (no very easy/large improvements); 23% of a run being "acceptable" isn't good. :\
E1 (28.26/1.74): May seem picky, but this is honestly a pretty slow start; you should get at least .28 almost every time, and .30 more often than not. It's only a few frames though.
E2 (23.00/7.00): This can be done about three seconds faster pretty easily.
E5 (27.13/2.87): Fine.
E6 (40.60/19.40): The stage can be done over 10 seconds faster; it's somewhat difficult, but this is the fourth stage in the run. :\ There's no reason not to do this strat.
E7 (36.11/23.89): A bit slow. You can turn around and shortcut across at the beginning to save some time but it's annoying.
E8 (26.31/3.69): Fine.
E9 (43.30/16.70): ...Why did he do this level normally??? You can shortcut straight to the goal area pretty easily, which saves over 10 seconds.
E10 (26.65/3.35): Fine.
E11 (18.43/11.57): Okay. Could have been a bit faster.
E12 (46.15/13.85): Why did he go against the gears here? :\ That cost him a few seconds.
E13 (55.28/4.72): Well, that was bad. Getting across cleanly is incredibly easy.
E14 (52.68/7.32): Pretty slow getting through the last set of bumpers.
E15 (28.20/1.80): Getting above 28.30 is really easy.
E16 (27.41/2.59): You can fall off the side and get a low 27.6x/high 27.5x every time.
E17 (22.60/7.40): Fine.
E18 (20.88/9.12): A bit slow here.
E19 (55.68/4.32): It's possible to keep bouncing straight up to the goal, but this stage is stupid.
E20 (27.61/2.39): Fine.
E21 (55.90/4.10): A tiny bit slow here; I can get above 56.00 almost every time.
E22 (50.80/9.20): He slowed down a lot while crossing the letters, and not going straight for the goal once reaching the center of the A cost some time.
E23 (25.65/4.35): Getting mid-to-high 26.xx is very easy.
E24 (26.75/33.25): You can bounce against the path when taking the shortcut, which saves some time.
E25 (16.05/13.95): ...This was incredibly slow. You can easily get over 23.00 here.
E26 (24.63/5.37): He should have fallen off to the side of the first platform instead of at the front.
E27 (47.06/12.94): Doing it normally like this is way to slow... You can quickly skip across the path instead. Admittedly it's kind of hard; but this is a speedrun, you should be taking some risks. (and even if you were to die once it would still be faster than this run's completion)
E28 (55.48/4.52): It's faster to fall off earlier and bounce along the track into the goal.
E29 (53.08/6.92): Fine.
E30 (57.31/2.69): Fine.
E31 (26.25/3.75): It's possible to bounce off the side of the second platform straight to the goal platform, though it can be kind of annoying; at the very least he shouldn't have backed up at the beginning before crossing to the second platform.
E32 (34.13/25.87): You can shortcut to the goal and skip the thin wires at the end, but it's really stupid. His navigation of the wires was really slow, though, and cost a decent amount of time.
E33 (24.86/5.14): He should have taken a lower (and shorter) path here. That combined with trouble getting into the goal cost him about a second.
E34 (25.46/4.54): Don't know why he took his time so much with crossing the barrels. :\
E35 (55.63/4.37): Kind of slow.
E36 (15.06/14.94): You can cut in front of the first bumper, which saves about 1.5 seconds.
E37 (26.48/3.52): Uh... Why did he slow down after getting bounced up? Anyway, there's a really really easy strat that gets 27.13 almost every time.
E38 (22.91/7.09): He could have been about .2-.3 quicker getting into the goal.
E39 (24.51/5.49): He should've kept going to the third platform instead of stopping on the second.
E40 (26.88/3.12): After falling off the platform he should have let go of the control stick; spinning around slowed his descent.
E41 (26.51/3.49): You can bounce off the side of the bowl straight into the goal instead of going all the way around.
E42 (58.18/1.82): lol at the pausing. Pretty ironic. It does seem to work pretty well here though.
E45 (14.70/15.30): He should have gotten a running start for the second set of rotating platforms.
E46 (17.95/12.05): Really slow here. I can get 3-4 seconds faster almost every time. :\
E48 (14.73/15.27): There's a couple of places you can cut across the track. They can be somewhat annoying, but at least one of them should be done.
E49 (27.71/2.29): 28.3x is incredibly easy.
E50 (20.35/9.65): You can get bounced up into the goal, though it can be difficult. I probably wouldn't have gone for it.
EX1 (21.73/8.27): You can shortcut to the platforms while they're at the left at the beginning, and save a cycle, though it's kind of hard.
EX2 (24.40/5.60): There's a better path he could have taken that saves around a second.
EX3 (21.50/8.50): It's possible to run at the goal sooner, which saves about 3 seconds.
EX4 (25.70/4.30): No clue why he bounces on a second Ferris Wheel platform instead of going straight for the goal.
EX5 (19.63/10.37): Okay, this was really bad. He attempts a pausing strat, fails it, then goes for a much slower alternative... When that pausing strat isn't even the fastest method in the first place.
EX6 (21.18/8.82): You can bounce off the top of the pipe straight to the goal. Plus it looks completely awesome.
EX7 (19.66/10.34): Pretty slow crossing the stage. He was lucky to have made it in time at all, for that matter...
EX8 (25.15/4.85): Well, you can shortcut across the V to the goal, but screw this stage.
EX9 (18.65/11.35): He should have skipped some of the platforms instead of bouncing on every single one.
EX10 (16.00/14.00): He should have gotten a running start before the last piece was knocked away.
M1 (40.80/19.20): Well, since he's already attempted some pause strats, if you pause at 56.40 then hold forward you'll complete the stage with 43.01 remaining every time. It is a 1 frame window though. Even without it this was a bit slow, you should be getting above 41 every time (preferably close to 41.50).
M2 (41.86/18.14): Why did he do this normally? Dropping straight to the bottom is really easy.
M3 (36.43/23.57): ...
M4 (46.45/13.55): He slowed down a ton at the end, though it's understandable considering the roll likes to randomly pop you into the air if you're going too fast.
M5 (55.35/4.65): You can move through the blocks instead of dodging them to the side, which would save about a second.
M6 (58.53/1.47): You should get over 58.60 every time here...
M7 (42.78/17.22): It's possible to fall straight into the goal at the beginning, but that's way too difficult and definitely not end-of-a-SS material. The ending could be over a second faster, though, by bouncing off the wall into the goal.
M8 (56.53/3.47): You can get hit by some of the poles into the goal, but it doesn't seem to be as consistent as I remember it... There must be some trick to it that I've forgotten about. :\
M9 (24.65/35.35): Okay, that was horrendous. You should not be taking the wires that slowly in a speedrun. For the sake of comparison, my old 9999 PP run finished this stage about 2 1/2 seconds slower, when A. I didn't shortcut the beginning, which would have saved around 14 seconds, and B. I wasn't aiming for speed.
M10 (49.46/10.54): And he misses the goal and loses a bunch of time; certainly not the best way to cap off the run. :\
Was this run done during a race? It would certainly explain some of the strats and the execution. It does not excuse them, however; SDA is not the place for runs that are built around one-shot-run strats. :\ Another thing I noticed is that there were a lot of places boosting (holding up-left/up-right at the beginning of the stage) should have been used but wasn't; this is such a basic trick, and honestly makes it appear that not much effort went into researching tricks and strats.
Also, a few years back I was planning on doing a run of this myself (though I lost interest pretty quickly). My goal with the strats I planned to use was around 7:15-7:30; this run's time is 10:12.27, almost three minutes slower. Three minutes is a ton when the time is this short.
So I'm going to have to REJECT this run. Tons of strats are very easily (and sometimes massively) improvable, and the execution was just slow in general.
Edit: I don't know if the replies below will be included in the topic, so I'll just add this to my post:
Quote from Me:
Quote from Verifier:
What I meant was that you are being a bit nitpicky on a few stages (the ones where under .3 seconds can be saved). I'm not saying those strats shouldn't be adopted, I'm saying they shouldn't play a large factor in the decision of accepting/rejecting (maybe they didn't for you).
The point is, there's a lot of stages where there's really no reason at all for not being half a second to a second faster. And yeah, that alone likely wouldn't get a reject; it's that along with the large improvements possible on E6 (10-12 seconds), E9 (10 seconds), E25 (7 seconds), E27 (8 seconds), EX5 (7 seconds), M2 (13 seconds), M3 (17-18 seconds), M9 (If you do the second shortcut, nearly half a minute! But at the very least it shouldn't be 12 seconds slower than a not-speedrun on the final wires), and M10 (7 seconds), as well as decent improvements (2-5 seconds) on E2, E12, E32, E46, EX3, EX6, and EX7. There's about 15 stages I consider "acceptable" (no very easy/large improvements); 23% of a run being "acceptable" isn't good. :\
Quote:
Above verifier seems a bit nitpicky with a few of the stages (does 2-4 hundredths of a second wasted in the first stage really matter when there is 18 minutes of a run?), although I agree with most of his individual level comments.
On to the run itself. To get it out of the way first, the audio/video is perfectly fine. There's a lot of small improvements (although some can be annoying, such as on 29 where whether you bounce or not can seem to be purely luck based), and a variety of large ones (varying in difficulty). The only strategy that completely surprised me was how M2 was done normally, because I jumped off the edge the first time I got to master (although that might be because of my mindset as a Monkeyball 2 main, where jumping into goals is commonplace).
Although this can be improved easily, I am going to ACCEPT this run. The game has been featured at an SDA marathon, and deserves to be on SDA, so while Cosmo's run may be slow, it is devoid of deaths and is a good starting place for the future. As far as I know Cosmo is the only person with a recorded speedrun of master (that has no deaths), and so he has not had much competition, which is the best way to improve a metagame (example being how the record for SM64 120 star has improved by over 15 minutes over the last 12 months because of how many people compete for RTA's/SRL).
On to the run itself. To get it out of the way first, the audio/video is perfectly fine. There's a lot of small improvements (although some can be annoying, such as on 29 where whether you bounce or not can seem to be purely luck based), and a variety of large ones (varying in difficulty). The only strategy that completely surprised me was how M2 was done normally, because I jumped off the edge the first time I got to master (although that might be because of my mindset as a Monkeyball 2 main, where jumping into goals is commonplace).
Although this can be improved easily, I am going to ACCEPT this run. The game has been featured at an SDA marathon, and deserves to be on SDA, so while Cosmo's run may be slow, it is devoid of deaths and is a good starting place for the future. As far as I know Cosmo is the only person with a recorded speedrun of master (that has no deaths), and so he has not had much competition, which is the best way to improve a metagame (example being how the record for SM64 120 star has improved by over 15 minutes over the last 12 months because of how many people compete for RTA's/SRL).
Quote from Verifier 1:
9:09.33 run
This was... not good at all (13 deaths. >_> Maybe I should have practiced the Master stages some beforehand...), but due to using a ton of better strats it still beat the runner's time by 1:02.94.
This was... not good at all (13 deaths. >_> Maybe I should have practiced the Master stages some beforehand...), but due to using a ton of better strats it still beat the runner's time by 1:02.94.
Where Verifier 1 put 9:09:33, that was a link to a YouTube video of a run of his with that time. I'll let him post it if he wants to share it.
Quote from Verifier 3:
honestly, with Verifier 1 beating the run by a minute+ with 13 deaths, i can see reject as well. i know verifier 1 has very high standards and i don't fault him one bit for being "picky" or whatever you want to say. some of the strats he showed i didnt even know about lol. i still say accept because of the deathless aspect + for the most part being a fairly smooth run. but, im sure if rejected, cosmo will put effort towards a faster run. or maybe not 
Quote from Verifier 2:
I agree with everything Verifier 3 said in his last post.
Decision: Reject
Reason: Too many possible improvements to make.
This run will be available for a month. PM me for a link.
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