Super Metroid - October 30th, 2008

2008-10-30 09:22:28 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

Satoru 'Hotarubi' Suzuki's single-segment 14% run.

Verifier Responses

Quote:

I can't remember if I already sent you this or I'm mixing it up with the MZM verification. But anyways...

Run seemed good. There were a couple places where he had to try certain tricks multiple times (the Wrecked Ship bomb jump is most memorable), but they didn't cost too much time. The more amazing thing is that he didn't die against any boss, which is rather impressive against Ridley and Mother Brain, as they must be damaged primarily with charged ice beams, making those fights exceedingly long. I'd say accept it, as the achievement of a SS 14% seems greater than the mistakes made. I didn't notice any cheating, either.

Quote:

The run looks good.

(Yes, this is the entire response)

There were two people who gave me their responses over IRC

Quote:

Verifier: it's great; accept
Verifier: there are no significant errors and, although there are several minor ones that cause a few seconds' loss, they are completely allowable
Verifier: given how awesome the rest of the play is
Verifier: yeah isn't 14% single-segment supposed to be ridiculously hard?
Verifier: yes
Verifier: there is one thing, though. at about 5:09, there's a weird sound effect as he goes through the door
Verifier: but given that i swear i've heard it before, but just can't place it, i'm not worried
Verifier: i'm probably just chasing after shadows, but i thought i'd mention it
Verifier: i still can't get over how he ended the ridley fight by getting grabbed, despite having less than one etank's worth of health
Verifier: the route's great, too

The other IRC verifier said the run was good and 14% was a very impressive feat.

Decision: Accept

Reason: Considering how incredible the 0:32 run was, any run from Hotarubi is practically guaranteed to be pure, unfiltered joy being injected into our eyeballs. Judging from verifier responses, my assumption seems to be correct.

P.S. This run is taking forever because the runner has not sent me comments yet (it's been almost 2 months now).

Thread title:

Game page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

Satoru 'Hotarubi' Suzuki's single-segment 14% run.

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]I can't remember if I already sent you this or I'm mixing it up with the MZM verification.  But anyways...

Run seemed good.  There were a couple places where he had to try certain tricks multiple times (the Wrecked Ship bomb jump is most memorable), but they didn't cost too much time.  The more amazing thing is that he didn't die against any boss, which is rather impressive against Ridley and Mother Brain, as they must be damaged primarily with charged ice beams, making those fights exceedingly long.  I'd say accept it, as the achievement of a SS 14% seems greater than the mistakes made.  I didn't notice any cheating, either.[/quote]

[quote]The run looks good.[/quote] (Yes, this is the entire response)

There were two people who gave me their responses over IRC

[quote]Verifier: it's great; accept
Verifier: there are no significant errors and, although there are several minor ones that cause a few seconds' loss, they are completely allowable 
Verifier: given how awesome the rest of the play is
Verifier: yeah isn't 14% single-segment supposed to be ridiculously hard?
Verifier: yes
Verifier: there is one thing, though.  at about 5:09, there's a weird sound effect as he goes through the door
Verifier: but given that i swear i've heard it before, but just can't place it, i'm not worried
Verifier: i'm probably just chasing after shadows, but i thought i'd mention it
Verifier: i still can't get over how he ended the ridley fight by getting grabbed, despite having less than one etank's worth of health
Verifier: the route's great, too[/quote]

The other IRC verifier said the run was good and 14% was a very impressive feat.

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: Considering how incredible the 0:32 run was, any run from Hotarubi is practically guaranteed to be pure, unfiltered joy being injected into our eyeballs. Judging from verifier responses, my assumption seems to be correct.

P.S. This run is taking forever because the runner has not sent me comments yet (it's been almost 2 months now).

mikechenkeha

2008-11-16 09:22:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

you should make runners give their comment when giving the run's link to verify

mikwuyma

2008-11-16 09:32:04 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I always do it the first time a runner submits a run, but if the runner has submitted a run already, I tend to relax a bit on comments since I know the runner won't suddenly go away.

The only exception is Spider-Waffle, and the reason for the exception is two words, Half-Life.

OnyxShadow

2008-11-17 07:16:14 am

May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce!

It would be nice to have comments to go along with the verification copy of a speedrun.

mikechenkeha

2008-11-17 08:54:47 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

agreed, because if there is something special that the runner need to mention, (like explain overall of the run, or a reason to fail that trick) the verifyers need to know

Tompa

2008-11-17 11:56:27 am

Quote from OnyxShadow:

It would be nice to have comments to go along with the verification copy of a speedrun.

I have suggested that to Mike a few times, but so far my wish hasn't come true :P.

DRybes

2008-11-17 12:36:09 pm

O Zlda?

For the tech-savvy, consider including commentary as a track 2 in the verification copy? it's LQ anyway, with the right settings would only add a few MB to an hour long run...

Of course that comes across as pompously assuming you'll be accepted... hmm... maybe a subtitle track that shows info?

... screw it, just put the verifier comments up as a txt file or attach them to the PM Tongue

nate

2008-11-17 12:47:50 pm

of course, by lq, he means shit quality, not sda lq. the bitrate is more like mq though the quality is far worse.

DRybes

2008-11-17 01:20:28 pm

O Zlda?

Yeah I meant the verification copy quality. An alternate audio track on that quality could be as low-q as possible as long as the words could be understood.

Speaking of which, what setting does one use to encode verification quality, anyway? will LQ MP4 suffice or does it have to be different? For a run with many short segments, can several be appended together into 30-40 minute video chunks? Just curious >_>

nate

2008-11-17 01:46:48 pm

single pass 512 kbaud divx avi with 64 kbaud mp3 audio. always d4. almost always includes all frames of the original.

mikechenkeha

2008-11-17 03:33:23 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

could i please see?
14 percent is no boss skip IIRC? if there is, Funny to watch x ray climb in console

X

2008-12-01 10:15:47 am

destroy them with lazers

What is the new time for this run?

VorpalEdge

2008-12-01 12:41:54 pm

welcome to the machine

Quote from X:

What is the new time for this run?

0:44

Quote from mikechenkeha:

could i please see?
14 percent is no boss skip IIRC? if there is, Funny to watch x ray climb in console

I'm pretty sure this is it. And yeah, there's no x-ray climb.

VanillaFudge

2009-06-28 09:06:43 am

I haven't played Super Metroid much but I'm wondering why 14% is considered the low % run for this game. It seemed like he got 3 energy tanks and a second missile and super missile upgrade. Are all of these necessary for beating the game? It looked like the energy tanks were needed because the final boss took away 300 health automatically...so would that still happen if you only had one health bar, meaning the boss is impossible if you don't have 3 energy tanks?

What I'm really unsure of are the missile upgrades. Where in the game is it required to have 10 instead of 5 for both super and regular missiles?

Greenalink

2009-06-28 09:21:26 am

DS Dictator

I haven't fully watched the run yet so I might be making it up

The Gravity Suit reduces damage and 3 energy tanks are needed to surive Mother Brain's Hyper Beam.

Missiles are mainly needed to open doors, it takes 5 missiles or 1 super missile to unlock a pink door. But for the green doors it requires 1 Super Missile, Normal Missiles cannot unlock the door.

Lastly I think the Charge beam is required if you ran out of Missiles/Super missile/Power Bomb since some of the major bosses require more than 5 Super Missle to kill them and the Charge beam is the only 'beam based' weapon to actually deal some damage.

Quote:

second missile and super missile upgrade. Are all of these necessary for beating the game

Someone might know the reason why the player picks up 2 Missile pickups instead of 1. The only thing I can think of is the final pink door in Tourian, I've noticed that door requires more missiles than usual.

Vice

2009-06-28 09:45:20 am

Clam

The first missile expansion is obviously essential. He picks up the second missile expansion so he can bomb jump over the little lake thingy before the wrecked ship. It's sitting on top of that singular pillar poking out of the water, and there's no way to avoid if he wants to do that trick in that specific way. I think the only way to skip it would be to bomb jump over both sides of the lake in one continuous (and very long..) hop, rather than jump the left half, grab the missiles, then bomb hop the right half. Not sure if that's humanly possible, however.

...I think that's why he grabs the second one, anyway. Wink

Cpadolf

2009-06-28 10:26:12 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

3 E-tanks is to survive Mother Brains hyper beam. Varia suit is to reduce Mother Brains hyper beam damage from 600, so that you don't need to pick up 6 E-tanks (gravity suit does not affect the beam). The second missile pack and the second super pack are needed to beat Mother Brains first form in the glass cage, as she only takes damage from missiles at that point. Gravity suit is for Maridia, this part can be done without Gravity suit but you need more items to do so. Ice is needed to get to botwoon wihout speedbooster, and to pass through the zeebites at mother brain. Coincidentally, all places where you need to have ice to pass through can also be done with speedbooster instead, so a 14% run can be done with either speedbooster or ice as the 14th item. The speedbooster route is slower though, and a lot more inconvenient, at least without tool assistance (for which the current fastest route is at this point uncertain, but still believed to be the ice route).

EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.

3 E-tanks is to survive Mother Brains hyper beam. Varia suit is to reduce Mother Brains hyper beam damage from 600, so that you don't need to pick up 6 E-tanks (gravity suit does not affect the beam). The second missile pack and the second super pack are needed to beat Mother Brains first form in the glass cage, as she only takes damage from missiles at that point. Gravity suit is for Maridia, this part can be done without Gravity suit but you need more items to do so. Ice is needed to get to botwoon wihout speedbooster, and to pass through the zeebites at mother brain. Coincidentally, all places where you need to have ice to pass through can also be done with speedbooster instead, so a 14% run can be done with either speedbooster or ice as the 14th item. The speedbooster route is slower though, and a lot more inconvenient, at least without tool assistance (for which the current fastest route is at this point uncertain, but still believed to be the ice route).

EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.

ridd3r.

2009-06-28 02:19:26 pm

we have lift off

Quote:

EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.

There are obviously some very hard tricks in there and especially, boss fights, though I still think his 0:32 run was at least as impressive and maybe more. What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...

sinister1

2009-06-28 03:28:07 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Cpadolf:

...EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.

QFMFT.

Have you ever considered doing a non-TAS run of this game Cpadolf?

Hattori HANZo

2009-06-28 03:36:29 pm

contraddicted

Wow, this run is really awesome.
It indeed relieves me to see that even he had some small mistakes still in the run. But really, for a single segment this is amazing!

Quote from ridd3r.:

What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...

The actual fight against Mother Brain isn't too hard. I guess Draygon was more demanding and required way faster fingers and more precise timing for sure.
But the Ridley fight was impressive, too, for sure. And I personally find Ridley harder than Draygon, especially with such equipment.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-06-28 03:56:29 pm

berserker status

Quote from ridd3r.:

Quote:

EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.

There are obviously some very hard tricks in there and especially, boss fights, though I still think his 0:32 run was at least as impressive and maybe more. What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...

You should really check out his 0:31 run on his youtube account then. It's fairly similar except instead of using the bomb trick to do the sequence break before the sunken ship he does something else...I want to say he didn't use the speed booster either but i could be mistaken. i wonder if he'll submit this one or if he is in the process of doing a 0:30. Shocked

Yea this run is soooo freakin' good. The first time i saw this i just couldn't believe the raw skill involved. I think i've heard that he's aiming for a sub 0:50 100% or something from somewhere. This guy's got the Midas Touch.

On a personal note, the only sequence breaks that i can perform with some consistency is getting the super missle by doing the mockball (usually at least 5 tries) and also using the speed booster to get to the sunken ship (even more tries). Crazy to see a game this old getting broken to pieces to this day.

Congrats, Hotarubi! Looking forward to more great stuff in the future!

[quote="ridd3r."]
[quote] EDIT: Also 14% SS while still aiming for speed (and managing to do so pretty well) is completely insane. Hotarubi is a beast.
[/quote]

There are obviously some very hard tricks in there and especially, boss fights, though I still think his 0:32 run was at least as impressive and maybe more. What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...
[/quote]

You should really check out his 0:31 run on his youtube account then.  It's fairly similar except instead of using the bomb trick to do the sequence break before the sunken ship he does something else...I want to say he didn't use the speed booster either but i could be mistaken.  i wonder if he'll submit this one or if he is in the process of doing a 0:30.   :o

Yea this run is soooo freakin' good.  The first time i saw this i just couldn't believe the raw skill involved.  I think i've heard that he's aiming for a sub 0:50 100% or something from somewhere.  This guy's got the Midas Touch.

On a personal note, the only sequence breaks that i can perform with some consistency is getting the super missle by doing the mockball (usually at least 5 tries) and also using the speed booster to get to the sunken ship (even more tries).  Crazy to see a game this old getting broken to pieces to this day.

Congrats, Hotarubi!  Looking forward to more great stuff in the future!

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2009-06-28 04:05:12 pm

2009-06-28 03:59:23 pm

welcome to the machine

Since there seem to be a lot of questions, I'll list the required items and why they're required.

Code:

        Morphing Ball   (1)
        Missiles        (1 or 2)
        Bombs           (1)
        Energy Tanks    (3)
        Charge Beam     (1)
        Super Missiles  (2 or 3)
        Varia Suit      (1)
        [Speed Boots OR Ice Beam]
                        (1)
        Power Bombs     (1)
        Gravity Suit    (1)
        -------------------
                       (14)

The morph ball, bombs, charge beam, and one set each of missiles/supers/power bombs are obvious. The Varia Suit is necessary because it reduces the damage of Mother Brain's hyper beam from 600 to 300 - which is also why you need 3 etanks. Yes, it's theoretically possible to get stuck in Tourian with only one or two tanks (although I can't imagine it happening unintentionally, for many reasons).

The Gravity Suit does not at all affect the damage of Mother Brain's hyper beam, but if you don't have it, you will need to do this to escape Draygon's room after killing him, and you would need to collect at least two additional items to crystal flash - as opposed to the grav suit, which is one item. Either the ice beam or the speed booster are necessary for the room just before Botwoon, and to allow you to glitch through the zebetites before mother brain and save yourself one tank's worth of missiles or supers. Finally, the additional missile and super packs are to allow you to kill mother brain's first form - the passive one that's encased in glass. It doesn't take any damage from charge beams, so they're necessary.

It's possible to get a lower %, but only with out-of-bounds glitches like those shown in the newest TAS.

Hope this helps someone.

Since there seem to be a lot of questions, I'll list the required items and why they're required.

[code]        Morphing Ball   (1)
        Missiles        (1 or 2)
        Bombs           (1)
        Energy Tanks    (3)
        Charge Beam     (1)
        Super Missiles  (2 or 3)
        Varia Suit      (1)
        [Speed Boots OR Ice Beam]
                        (1)
        Power Bombs     (1)
        Gravity Suit    (1)
        -------------------
                       (14)
[/code]

The morph ball, bombs, charge beam, and one set each of missiles/supers/power bombs are obvious.  The Varia Suit is necessary because it reduces the damage of Mother Brain's hyper beam from 600 to 300 - which is also why you need 3 etanks.  Yes, it's theoretically possible to get stuck in Tourian with only one or two tanks (although I can't imagine it happening unintentionally, for many reasons).

The Gravity Suit does not at all affect the damage of Mother Brain's hyper beam, but if you don't have it, you will need to do [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_gravity_suit_draygon.php]this[/url] to escape Draygon's room after killing him, and you would need to collect at least two additional items to crystal flash - as opposed to the grav suit, which is one item.  Either the ice beam or the speed booster are necessary for the room just before Botwoon, and to allow you to glitch through the zebetites before mother brain and save yourself one tank's worth of missiles or supers.  Finally, the additional missile and super packs are to allow you to kill mother brain's first form - the passive one that's encased in glass.  It doesn't take any damage from charge beams, so they're necessary.

It's possible to get a lower %, but only with out-of-bounds glitches like those shown in the newest TAS.

Hope this helps someone.

VanillaFudge

2009-06-28 04:37:11 pm

Thanks for all the answers guys.

ridd3r.

2009-06-28 04:47:24 pm

we have lift off

Quote:

You should really check out his 0:31 run on his youtube account then. It's fairly similar except instead of using the bomb trick to do the sequence break before the sunken ship he does something else...I want to say he didn't use the speed booster either but i could be mistaken. i wonder if he'll submit this one or if he is in the process of doing a 0:30. Shocked

Yea this run is soooo freakin' good. The first time i saw this i just couldn't believe the raw skill involved. I think i've heard that he's aiming for a sub 0:50 100% or something from somewhere. This guy's got the Midas Touch.

On a personal note, the only sequence breaks that i can perform with some consistency is getting the super missle by doing the mockball (usually at least 5 tries) and also using the speed booster to get to the sunken ship (even more tries). Crazy to see a game this old getting broken to pieces to this day.

Congrats, Hotarubi! Looking forward to more great stuff in the future!

Yeah I'v seen his 0:31, for some reason I prefer his 0:32 Grin

, somehow seemed tighter to me. I can do pretty much all the tricks but it takes a fair few tries for some of them. The super charge to wrecked ship across the lake is very hard so for him to pull off tricks like that consistently throughout the run is just insane. Can't wait for his 100% run and if he improves his any%.

[quote]

You should really check out his 0:31 run on his youtube account then.  It's fairly similar except instead of using the bomb trick to do the sequence break before the sunken ship he does something else...I want to say he didn't use the speed booster either but i could be mistaken.  i wonder if he'll submit this one or if he is in the process of doing a 0:30.   :o

Yea this run is soooo freakin' good.  The first time i saw this i just couldn't believe the raw skill involved.  I think i've heard that he's aiming for a sub 0:50 100% or something from somewhere.  This guy's got the Midas Touch.

On a personal note, the only sequence breaks that i can perform with some consistency is getting the super missle by doing the mockball (usually at least 5 tries) and also using the speed booster to get to the sunken ship (even more tries).  Crazy to see a game this old getting broken to pieces to this day.

Congrats, Hotarubi!  Looking forward to more great stuff in the future!
[/quote]

Yeah I'v seen his 0:31, for some reason I prefer his 0:32 ;D , somehow seemed tighter to me. I can do pretty much all the tricks but it takes a fair few tries for some of them. The super charge to wrecked ship across the lake is very hard so for him to pull off tricks like that consistently throughout the run is just insane. Can't wait for his 100% run and if he improves his any%.

Cpadolf

2009-06-28 07:16:55 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from sinister1:

Have you ever considered doing a non-TAS run of this game Cpadolf?

I was doing unassisted runs all the time before TASing, the lowest I got was 00:35 segmented (and 00:39 on the PAL version, which as far as I knew was the then fastest time for the european version). I never recorded anything though, and my skill has naturally slipped a bit from not running the game as intensly the last two years, so at this point I'm not thinking of doing any serious atempt at taking a record at least.

Quote from ridd3r.:

There are obviously some very hard tricks in there and especially, boss fights, though I still think his 0:32 run was at least as impressive and maybe more. What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...

Yeah, the 00:32 run is about as impressive (and the 00:31 run), and it does hold a higher average level of play. But a 14% run is something that many players have a hard time completing even when using saves, and hotarubi does it single segmented (might be the first one to accomplish that at all, though I'm not sure), and still does it quickly. The hardest part should definitely be Ridley. This is a battle that many good players have trouble with, even with one E-tank more than hotarubi has and while also having all the beams, which does 10 times as much damage as ice alone. Mother Brain while a predictable boss still becomes pretty though, just because of the length of the battle and the fact that even with full health you can barely take a hit and survive the hyper beam, Draygon is pretty nasty too. WS early with only one energytank is quite hard, and plenty of the rooms in general are as well due to the weapon/ammo/uppgrade restrictions. Overall it is just a hard run, even if you use the savestations and take things slow, which is what makes this SS speedrun so impressive to me.

[quote="sinister1"]Have you ever considered doing a non-TAS run of this game Cpadolf?
[/quote]

I was doing unassisted runs all the time before TASing, the lowest I got was 00:35 segmented (and 00:39 on the PAL version, which as far as I knew was the then fastest time for the european version). I never recorded anything though, and my skill has naturally slipped a bit from not running the game as intensly the last two years, so at this point I'm not thinking of doing any serious atempt at taking a record at least.

[quote="ridd3r."]
There are obviously some very hard tricks in there and especially, boss fights, though I still think his 0:32 run was at least as impressive and maybe more. What are the most difficult parts of the run? Clearly the Mother brain and especially Ridley fights are very hard...[/quote]

Yeah, the 00:32 run is about as impressive (and the 00:31 run), and it does hold a higher average level of play. But a 14% run is something that many players have a hard time completing even when using saves, and hotarubi does it single segmented (might be the first one to accomplish that at all, though I'm not sure), and still does it quickly. The hardest part should definitely be Ridley. This is a battle that many good players have trouble with, even with one E-tank more than hotarubi has and while also having all the beams, which does 10 times as much damage as ice alone. Mother Brain while a predictable boss still becomes pretty though, just because of the length of the battle and the fact that even with full health you can barely take a hit and survive the hyper beam, Draygon is pretty nasty too. WS early with only one energytank is quite hard, and plenty of the rooms in general are as well due to the weapon/ammo/uppgrade restrictions. Overall it is just a hard run, even if you use the savestations and take things slow, which is what makes this SS speedrun so impressive to me.