Super Metroid - April 11th, 2010

2010-04-11 12:52:15 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

giganotabehemoth's PAL SS run (BTW, if you want me to list your real name, you have to tell me what it is!)

Verifier Responses

Note: Some of the responses mention missing sound. This problem has been fixed.

Quote:

Good overall run in gameplay terms. The audio track doesn't seem to work, but there weren't any graphical glitches.

It's not as faultless as the NTSC run, and on many occasions he gets hit by enemies he could have avoided. He didn't cheat or use any glitches which aren't permitted by SDA rules. The boss fights were well fought and there aren't any major mistakes other than losing a few seconds on the way to Torizo. I'd say it's an accept, as the run is well played.

Quote:

All right, after watching this run I have to say wow.. I learned something new today, never even crossed my mind to shinespark draygon to death.. Overall it was an impressive run.. Lack of audio was bothersome at first but can't be de-synced if it's not there I suppose. As for the video quality it's not bad, a bit fuzzy around text but it's super metroid there's less than 100 letters in the entire game. My only major complaint would have to be the horrific glitching during the final fight with Mother Brain. You can't see Samus half the time, Mother Brain looks like she's hopping around on one leg, and the metroid is only visible as it dies and even then its only two little pieces. I would assume it was because of glitching thru the tube in Mother Brains lair.. I'd have to say overall rating B+ (attach audio and it'd be better)

Quote:

Hi Mike,

Welcome back, here are my comments for Samus' European Adventure:

AV Quality: The video quality is good. There is a very subtle clicking sound that can be heard throughout the video usually once per minute or more. Not sure what that is about but it is very subtle so no worries.

Impressive: This run is very impressive on several levels. Runner was very solid in all major speed trick areas (mockballing, wall jumping, enemy boosting, shinesparking, etc.). He was consistent throughout the run.

Cheating: I gonna go with no.

Comments: The runner seemed to actually perform better as he progressed through the run and did not make any big mistakes which is quite rare in a run this long. All mistakes were minimal and did not cost much time. It was almost as if the runner would have super focused concentration during difficult phases of the run but let his guard down a few times during the more mundane areas, thus having small mistakes.

The main boss fights were all very solid, but the miniboss fights could have been better. There were some great speed tricks that the runner pulled off (double kago ball comes to mind) and he made some very nice improvised plays when things did not go exactly as planned.

I do not fault the runner at all for passing on the bomb torizo skip as it is very difficult to pull off and even when you do get it, its not like you are a lock to get 00:33. Although if the runner made enough attempts and tried the skip every time he would eventually get 00:33 with his skillset.

Verdict: Accept.

Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a great run that deserves to stand alongside the current NTSC record.

Thread title:

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

giganotabehemoth's PAL SS run (BTW, if you want me to list your real name, you have to tell me what it is!)

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

Note: Some of the responses mention missing sound. This problem has been fixed.

[quote]Good overall run in gameplay terms. The audio track doesn't seem to work, but there weren't any graphical glitches.

It's not as faultless as the NTSC run, and on many occasions he gets hit by enemies he could have avoided. He didn't cheat or use any glitches which aren't permitted by SDA rules. The boss fights were well fought and there aren't any major mistakes other than losing a few seconds on the way to Torizo. I'd say it's an accept, as the run is well played.[/quote]

[quote]All right, after watching this run I have to say wow.. I learned something new today, never even crossed my mind to shinespark draygon to death.. Overall it was an impressive run.. Lack of audio was bothersome at first but can't be de-synced if it's not there I suppose. As for the video quality it's not bad, a bit fuzzy around text but it's super metroid there's less than 100 letters in the entire game. My only major complaint would have to be the horrific glitching during the final fight with Mother Brain. You can't see Samus half the time, Mother Brain looks like she's hopping around on one leg, and the metroid is only visible as it dies and even then its only two little pieces. I would assume it was because of glitching thru the tube in Mother Brains lair.. I'd have to say overall rating B+ (attach audio and it'd be better)[/quote]

[quote]Hi Mike,

Welcome back, here are my comments for Samus' European Adventure:

[b]AV Quality:[/b] The video quality is good. There is a very subtle clicking sound that can be heard throughout the video usually once per minute or more. Not sure what that is about but it is very subtle so no worries.

[b]Impressive:[/b] This run is very impressive on several levels. Runner was very solid in all major speed trick areas (mockballing, wall jumping, enemy boosting, shinesparking, etc.). He was consistent throughout the run.

[b]Cheating:[/b] I gonna go with no.

[b]Comments:[/b] The runner seemed to actually perform better as he progressed through the run and did not make any big mistakes which is quite rare in a run this long. All mistakes were minimal and did not cost much time. It was almost as if the runner would have super focused concentration during difficult phases of the run but let his guard down a few times during the more mundane areas, thus having small mistakes.

The main boss fights were all very solid, but the miniboss fights could have been better. There were some great speed tricks that the runner pulled off (double kago ball comes to mind) and he made some very nice improvised plays when things did not go exactly as planned.

I do not fault the runner at all for passing on the bomb torizo skip as it is very difficult to pull off and even when you do get it, its not like you are a lock to get 00:33. Although if the runner made enough attempts and tried the skip every time he would eventually get 00:33 with his skillset.

[b]Verdict:[/b] Accept.[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: It's a great run that deserves to stand alongside the current NTSC record.

ridd3r.

2010-04-11 04:41:23 am

we have lift off

Well done on getting it accepted, really looking forward to the 0:33!

Quote:

My only major complaint would have to be the horrific glitching during the final fight with Mother Brain. You can't see Samus half the time, Mother Brain looks like she's hopping around on one leg, and the metroid is only visible as it dies and even then its only two little pieces. I would assume it was because of glitching thru the tube in Mother Brains lair.. I'd have to say overall rating B+ (attach audio and it'd be better)

Umm.. no, that's called the murder beam glitch and is used in the 0:55 run already on this site. I guess it looks worse because it's PAL.

DarthVenom

Edit history:

DarthVenom: 2010-04-11 09:09:18 pm

2010-04-11 09:02:59 pm

Not to mention, the murder beam thing is pretty ugly through and through, no matter what format it's done on. Though, whatever it takes to save time.

But as with any Metroid-related run, I'm looking forward to seeing this.

Emptyeye

2010-04-12 05:48:58 am

Talk to the Hand

While I'll defer to the pros on how quick the Murder Beam is (They continue to use it, after all), I do remember watching it for the first time and thinking to myself "Holy crap is this slow! This can't be faster than just fighting her, can it?" Probably because the whole game goes into massive slow-mo at that point.

Oh well.

nate

2010-04-12 02:26:50 pm

yeah, that's why (the slowdown).

giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-12 02:51:15 pm

Exellent !

I don't like the murder beam glitch either but as it's allowed to be implemented in a run I don't mind doing it. If for some reason it got banned in the future I wouldn't mind that either. I've heard doing it saves about 10 seconds in the fight against mother brain though.

About me getting better as the run goes on. It's very strange, I've said on my topic that I perform better as the run goes on. The beginning of the game is very hard to be perfect on compared to the rest of the game, IMO. Hotarubi is god like to to do the begining so well. He seems to be the opposite of me, starts well, with flaws later on.

And my real name is Christopher Hill. Thanks guys !

moozooh

2010-06-14 02:15:23 pm

Hail Discordia!

Just watched this run. I must say, your handling of the PAL version is really impressive, considering its shortcomings in regards to speedrunning. I haven't been to m2k2 in a long while, are you a member there?

Anyway, you have a lot of potential, and since everything suggests you aren't done with the game yet, here are my primary suggestions for improvements:
- skipping Torizo (at least 20 or so seconds lost);
- two-rounding Phantoon (about 7–9 seconds? Damn, I'm rusty >_>);
- quick-killing Botwoon (likewise + faster Draygon fight due to ammo);
- pre-Draygon room shinespark (over 10 seconds for sure, should be easier on PAL due to slower spark timer if I'm not confusing anything);
- taking Maridia/Red Brinstar route after Lower Norfair (5–10 seconds or something around that much, can't remember offhand; it's been proven by Saturn a few years ago that this route to Tourian is the fastest, and probably also the least prone to accidental mistakes like those seen in your run at that particular point).

All the rest being equal, these alone pretty much guarantee a sub-34, and since there weren't any other major issues with this run (which is an unexpected and pleasant surprise for a Super Metroid speedrun), I probably won't be able to make any other rational suggestions on how to improve it.

Congratulations! I'll be looking forward to your future endeavours. Smiley

Just watched this run. I must say, your handling of the PAL version is really impressive, considering its shortcomings in regards to speedrunning. I haven't been to m2k2 in a long while, are you a member there?

Anyway, you have a lot of potential, and since everything suggests you aren't done with the game yet, here are my primary suggestions for improvements:
- skipping Torizo (at least 20 or so seconds lost);
- two-rounding Phantoon (about 7–9 seconds? Damn, I'm rusty >_>);
- quick-killing Botwoon (likewise + faster Draygon fight due to ammo);
- pre-Draygon room shinespark (over 10 seconds for sure, should be easier on PAL due to slower spark timer if I'm not confusing anything);
- taking Maridia/Red Brinstar route after Lower Norfair (5–10 seconds or something around that much, can't remember offhand; it's been proven by Saturn a few years ago that this route to Tourian is the fastest, and probably also the least prone to accidental mistakes like those seen in your run at that particular point).

All the rest being equal, these alone pretty much guarantee a sub-34, and since there weren't any other major issues with this run (which is an unexpected and pleasant surprise for a Super Metroid speedrun), I probably won't be able to make any other rational suggestions on how to improve it.

Congratulations! I'll be looking forward to your future endeavours. :)

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2010-06-15 11:10:06 am

2010-06-15 11:03:52 am

Thank you very much moozooh. I'm glad you liked the run. Also I am a member of m2k2 and we've been discussing endlessly about better tricks, strategies, boss strategies and routes since my speed run you've seen. All the points you made I'm already doing apart from one and that is the pre draygon shinespark. The timer for the flash is actually shorter on PAL (at least I'm nearly certain it is), if it isn't this then there's obviously some other reason why this trick is practically impossible with human hands on PAL. The gravity jump doesn't seem to help either, in fact it makes it slower, as I'm able to wall jump up there quicker than that. At the top I shoot the door early and ledge grab and run forward so I can't make this bit quicker anyway. The door opens in time even though it's on PAL so no worries there, but there just seems to never, ever be time to jump out there and trigger the shinespark.

Apart from that I will be trying my hardest to start a run with a torizo skip (getting better at it but it's still a pain in the ass)

I can 2 round phantoon using the power-wave combo almost automatically now because I have strategies for each of his 6 eye patterns on round one. I havn't missed in about 10 tries ! so this should be fine in the next run.

Botwoon moves around faster on round one on PAL making one rounding, or at least quick killing botwoon very difficult. I think a lot of people get confused when they see me not one rounding or two rounding botwoon in my runs but until you tell them he moves a lot faster then they undertsand it's a lot more difficult. One rounding is possible though and I've managed it twice on console. Two rounding I've done many times more. I can time the power-wave combo very well now so hopefully this boss fight will speed up for me in the near future.

Lastly I take the maridia route back to tourian now. At the time of the run I genuinly believed the brinstar route back to tourian to be the fastest if all the fast tricks are pulled off. But as you've seen in the run I messed up bad trying to do them. So as maridia route is 5 to 10 seconds faster, think how much faster it would be compared to my run that had at least 5 seconds worth of mistakes.... 15 seconds maybe ?

I can almost guarentee 0:33 minutes now in the next few days from practice running. My next goal is to actualy try and manage 0:32 if I do everything I've mentioned up above and do the smoothiest run possible. There's also another trick I forgot to mention that might interest you and that is skipping the giant metroid by jumping over it and circling it and escaping before it latches onto you. It's a lot easier on PAL but it's still possible on NTSC. This was proven by reeve on m2k2 to be around 13 seconds saved if done in 4 jumps which is about the most minimal amount of jumps you can do for this trick. I can do this trick now quite consistantly and I hope to show one in a run in the future.

Thank you very much moozooh. I'm glad you liked the run. Also I am a member of m2k2 and we've been discussing endlessly about better tricks, strategies, boss strategies and routes since my speed run you've seen. All the points you made I'm already doing apart from one and that is the pre draygon shinespark. The timer for the flash is actually shorter on PAL (at least I'm nearly certain it is), if it isn't this then there's obviously some other reason why this trick is practically impossible with human hands on PAL. The gravity jump doesn't seem to help either, in fact it makes it slower, as I'm able to wall jump up there quicker than that. At the top I shoot the door early and ledge grab and run forward so I can't make this bit quicker anyway. The door opens in time even though it's on PAL so no worries there, but there just seems to never, ever be time to jump out there and trigger the shinespark.

Apart from that I will be trying my hardest to start a run with a torizo skip (getting better at it but it's still a pain in the ass)

I can 2 round phantoon using the power-wave combo almost automatically now because I have strategies for each of his 6 eye patterns on round one. I havn't missed in about 10 tries ! so this should be fine in the next run.

Botwoon moves around faster on round one on PAL making one rounding, or at least quick killing botwoon very difficult. I think a lot of people get confused when they see me not one rounding or two rounding botwoon in my runs but until you tell them he moves a lot faster then they undertsand it's a lot more difficult. One rounding is possible though and I've managed it twice on console. Two rounding I've done many times more. I can time the power-wave combo very well now so hopefully this boss fight will speed up for me in the near future.

Lastly I take the maridia route back to tourian now. At the time of the run I genuinly believed the brinstar route back to tourian to be the fastest if all the fast tricks are pulled off. But as you've seen in the run I messed up bad trying to do them. So as maridia route is 5 to 10 seconds faster, think how much faster it would be compared to my run that had at least 5 seconds worth of mistakes.... 15 seconds maybe ?

I can almost guarentee 0:33 minutes now in the next few days from practice running. My next goal is to actualy try and manage 0:32 if I do everything I've mentioned up above and do the smoothiest run possible. There's also another trick I forgot to mention that might interest you and that is skipping the giant metroid by jumping over it and circling it and escaping before it latches onto you. It's a lot easier on PAL but it's still possible on NTSC. This was proven by reeve on m2k2 to be around 13 seconds saved if done in 4 jumps which is about the most minimal amount of jumps you can do for this trick. I can do this trick now quite consistantly and I hope to show one in a run in the future.

moozooh

2010-06-15 11:55:01 am

Hail Discordia!