Super Mario Land 2 - glitched route

2011-01-14 02:41:21 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Normally I hate to make a new thread for a game already on the site, but I don't think this deserves to be coupled with the old thread, since this route does not resemble normal play whatsoever.

Here's the new glitched TAS, if you're unaware:

Mario literally traverses through SRAM and alters a byte to summon the staff credits.
I don't own a cart of this game (kept passing it up at second-hand stores...wish I hadn't now) so I was trying to copy the route on emulator. The way they trigger the pipe glitch (press Down to enter pipe as rock hits Mario) is not that hard. The timing window has to be at least 4 frames, it's probably wider. It's probably easier pressing Down on my keyboard than on a control pad though...

I couldn't fall through the floor like the TAS does at 1:25 though. Curious, I tried the actual VBM movie and all three ROMs I just grabbed for SML2 failed there. Then again, they don't have Good names either. One of the checksums and CRCs still lined up though.

Anyway, that's how far I've made it...I want to see if this route can be done on console, even if it takes far longer to traverse memory hell. The input down there looks pretty crazy with some rapid alterations of left+right but there's a map of the memory on the TASVideos topic. Anyone with an actual cart want to give this a shot? (until I can find one of my own anyway)

Thread title:

Normally I hate to make a new thread for a game already on the site, but I don't think this deserves to be coupled with the old thread, since this route does not resemble normal play whatsoever.

Here's the new glitched TAS, if you're unaware:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZqEcVg8Ei8

Mario literally traverses through SRAM and alters a byte to summon the staff credits.
I don't own a cart of this game (kept passing it up at second-hand stores...wish I hadn't now) so I was trying to copy the route on emulator. The way they trigger the pipe glitch (press Down to enter pipe as rock hits Mario) is not that hard. The timing window has to be at least 4 frames, it's probably wider. It's probably easier pressing Down on my keyboard than on a control pad though...

I couldn't fall through the floor like the TAS does at 1:25 though. Curious, I tried the actual VBM movie and all three ROMs I just grabbed for SML2 failed there. Then again, they don't have Good names either. One of the checksums and CRCs still lined up though.

Anyway, that's how far I've made it...I want to see if this route can be done on console, even if it takes far longer to traverse memory hell. The input down there looks pretty crazy with some rapid alterations of left+right but there's a map of the memory on the TASVideos topic. Anyone with an actual cart want to give this a shot? (until I can find one of my own anyway)

MUGG

2011-01-14 06:47:28 am

TASer

Dying while inside a pipe has to be very perfectly timed, so I suggest you use the old route:
1st level
pumpkin zone 1
pumpkin zone 1, prepare pipe glitch, re-enter

What was the version of VBA you used?

The pipe glitch only works in version 1.0, so 1.1 and 1.2 won't sync with the movie.
The ROM area (0x0000~0x3FFF) has some differences among the versions which makes testing hard...
Also, the first two rows of the out of bounds area may behave slightly differently between emulator and real console. However, I still found the pipe that is used to enter the ROM area on my copy of the game (which is either 1.1 or 1.2).

The only way I can test myself is to use other out of bounds glitches like "bug the honey" in tree zone 3 (bee hive) or sprite-loading glitch while having bubble acquired and both are annoying to set up...

ShinerCCC

2011-01-14 12:22:05 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

My ROM is called "Super Mario Land 2 - 6 Golden Coins (USA, Europe)". I'm playing it from inside of a .zip. The other ones have (Rev A) and (Rev B) tacked on at the end, they have different CRCs and checksums from that one. The pipe glitch didn't even work in Rev B but Rev A's movie played out exactly the same until the invisible floor.

I played the movie in VBA 1.7.2 re-recording v19.3, so it's a bit old.

Timing the pipe glitch via death doesn't feel nearly as difficult as Samus superwavedash in Smash Bros Melee, which definitely has a 1 frame timing window, and even has a visual cue. Powershielding projectiles is 2 frames, powershielding melee attacks is 4 frames, and this timing window feels like 3 or 4 frames to me. Since you only have to do the first level and then walk over to Macro Zone 1, it only takes about a minute to make an attempt, so why not? Besides, I haven't played this game since I was 10, I don't remember how to play it legitimately any more =P

Given that I was just doing some memory poking with Final Fantasy Legend to make it behave like a real GBA from power-on, it's almost certain that the garbage data will be quite different on actual console. I really should secure a copy of this game.

My ROM is called "Super Mario Land 2 - 6 Golden Coins (USA, Europe)". I'm playing it from inside of a .zip. The other ones have (Rev A) and (Rev B) tacked on at the end, they have different CRCs and checksums from that one. The pipe glitch didn't even work in Rev B but Rev A's movie played out exactly the same until the invisible floor.

I played the movie in VBA 1.7.2 re-recording v19.3, so it's a bit old.

Timing the pipe glitch via death doesn't feel nearly as difficult as Samus superwavedash in Smash Bros Melee, which definitely has a 1 frame timing window, and even has a visual cue. Powershielding projectiles is 2 frames, powershielding melee attacks is 4 frames, and this timing window feels like 3 or 4 frames to me. Since you only have to do the first level and then walk over to Macro Zone 1, it only takes about a minute to make an attempt, so why not? Besides, I haven't played this game since I was 10, I don't remember how to play it legitimately any more =P

Given that I was just doing some memory poking with Final Fantasy Legend to make it behave like a real GBA from power-on, it's almost certain that the garbage data will be quite different on actual console. I really should secure a copy of this game.

ShinerCCC

2011-01-14 10:09:14 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Nevermind, it was in fact caused by my old version. I read the submission comments on an old TAS and it explained that older versions of VBA were lazy about copying a section of RAM, thus it was always filled with 0x00 instead of the lower 2/3 of the level.

Some exits in garbage-land exit the level, but do not add the "level complete" dot on the map.

With the new version, I'm now able to copy the TAS route. For the actual run, I think I'll actually use a regular Gamecube controller. I might be able to get better timing on the Macro Zone pipe glitch by using down on the Control Stick instead of the down on my Hori digital pad. With either of those two controllers, I'll also be able to easily do the pipe glitch because Y is mapped as Select. With some alternate claw-like grip I could probably just press start+Y with my right hand. Now comes the hard part of copying the TAS's route through garbage hell. I have to be careful not to alter any blocks in the early part as well because it's the ROM, if you touch them the wrong way the game will freeze because they're read-only....

Nevermind, it was in fact caused by my old version. I read the submission comments on an old TAS and it explained that older versions of VBA were lazy about copying a section of RAM, thus it was always filled with 0x00 instead of the lower 2/3 of the level.

Some exits in garbage-land exit the level, but do not add the "level complete" dot on the map.

With the new version, I'm now able to copy the TAS route. For the actual run, I think I'll actually use a regular Gamecube controller. I might be able to get better timing on the Macro Zone pipe glitch by using down on the Control Stick instead of the down on my Hori digital pad. With either of those two controllers, I'll also be able to easily do the pipe glitch because Y is mapped as Select. With some alternate claw-like grip I could probably just press start+Y with my right hand. Now comes the hard part of copying the TAS's route through garbage hell. I have to be careful not to alter any blocks in the early part as well because it's the ROM, if you touch them the wrong way the game will freeze because they're read-only....

Patashu

2011-01-15 03:21:19 am

I'm excited to see the TAS replicated in real life. Cheesy

Dwedit

2011-01-16 10:59:14 am

Just a warning though, the route may not be identical between emulators and the real thing.
During vblank time, you can freely access Video Memory (VRAM) or the sprite table (OAM). But after vblank time passes, and it changes to rendering time, they read back differently. When you access VRAM or OAM during render time, it instead reads whatever byte the PPU is accessing at the time, and the current crop of emulators don't simulate this correctly.
If you want to use an emulator, use Gambatte, because it's seen as more accurate than VBA.

Zeupar

2011-01-16 12:55:45 pm

Sonical!

I would love watching such a run. Good luck!

Zeo

2011-01-16 03:31:07 pm

this is kinda cool, but when wold time stop? normally it stops on either when Wario dies, or the screen black over afterwords.

I might mess with this on the Super gameboy later.

Shiner I don;t know you personally, but if you want to borrow my copy of SML2, i might be willing to do a temporary trade.

MUGG

2011-01-16 07:26:16 pm

TASer

Quote:

and this timing window feels like 3 or 4 frames to me.

In Macro Zone 1, the time window is pretty much 1 frame. Also, if you want to complete the first level without stopping, you need to make some precise jumping, especially at the part with the two piranha plant pipes.

andymac

2011-01-16 11:32:36 pm

Hey, I was the guy who made the TAS, and I think this is actually quite possible. You will need the v1.0 version of SML2 in order to do the pipe glitch (not v1.1 or v1.2). You might want to try this on console before you do too much practicing on the emulator, because there may be some differences regarding the first two rows of garbage.

I'll go through all the levels in the TAS. Intro stage: nothing special can be done unassisted easily, except for a few jumps (over the pirhana plant and over the goomba near the end, you will have to release a before the height of the jump).
Macro 1: both MUGG and shinerCCC are right. If you are as far right as I am in the TAS, you only get one frame to go down the pipe, but if you are a bit further left, when the rock is a bit lower, then you get 2-4 frames.
Pumpkin zone pipe glitch: there will always be a block (it's the one directly to the left of where I finish) that will always appear as a secret exit. You will exit the level, but it won't appear completed. Contrary to popular belief, the blocks aren't always the same, and you have to manipulate them to be exits. But I'm sure there is at least a semi consistent way of manipulating a normal exit to appear
Pumpkin zone pipe glitch setup: Getting the mushroom by jumping on the dude requires you to be fairly accurate, and a little but lucky. But it doesn't lose too much time if you miss anyway. You need at least a mushroom in order to break the credits block.
Pumpkin zone the glitch begins: For the second 32 rows, there is an alternate route to the one used in the TAS which loses about 100 frames but is significantly easier to perform in real time. You might want to ask MUGG about this. after the first 64 rows, pressing b + ^ or b + v will make mario fall through the floor in a lot of places. The route I took for the second 64 rows is actually fairly easy to perform in real time (I've done it before at least) After a while, you can crush blocks with impunity, and they will stay crushed too. One of the most difficult things to get past is the fact that the game doesn't show what's actually there.

Well good luck! I think this would make for a very impressive speedrun.

Hey, I was the guy who made the TAS, and I think this is actually quite possible. You will need the v1.0 version of SML2 in order to do the pipe glitch (not v1.1 or v1.2). You might want to try this on console before you do too much practicing on the emulator, because there may be some differences regarding the first two rows of garbage.

I'll go through all the levels in the TAS. Intro stage: nothing special can be done unassisted easily, except for a few jumps (over the pirhana plant and over the goomba near the end, you will have to release a before the height of the jump).
Macro 1: both MUGG and shinerCCC are right. If you are as far right as I am in the TAS, you only get one frame to go down the pipe, but if you are a bit further left, when the rock is a bit lower, then you get 2-4 frames.
Pumpkin zone pipe glitch: there will always be a block (it's the one directly to the left of where I finish) that will always appear as a secret exit. You will exit the level, but it won't appear completed. Contrary to popular belief, the blocks aren't always the same, and you have to manipulate them to be exits. But I'm sure there is at least a semi consistent way of manipulating a normal exit to appear
Pumpkin zone pipe glitch setup: Getting the mushroom by jumping on the dude requires you to be fairly accurate, and a little but lucky. But it doesn't lose too much time if you miss anyway. You need at least a mushroom in order to break the credits block.
Pumpkin zone the glitch begins: For the second 32 rows, there is an alternate route to the one used in the TAS which loses about 100 frames but is significantly easier to perform in real time. You might want to ask MUGG about this. after the first 64 rows, pressing b + ^ or b + v will make mario fall through the floor in a lot of places. The route I took for the second 64 rows is actually fairly easy to perform in real time (I've done it before at least) After a while, you can crush blocks with impunity, and they will stay crushed too. One of the most difficult things to get past is the fact that the game doesn't show what's actually there.

Well good luck! I think this would make for a very impressive speedrun.

ShinerCCC

2011-01-17 12:30:48 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

I did some fooling around on emulator and I actually can't even get through the first layer of ROM (0x0000 to 0x4000). The terrain becomes increasingly wall-like and there's a huge layer of floor on the right side that I always get stuck on. I can't follow the map posted on the forums because I don't have a good frame of reference, and I can't copy the TAS because you guys manipulated a pipe in the garbage layers so you could go down a little ways =P

I'm aware of the bank-switching trick, and that should make things fairly weird to practice. You mentioned a massively long horizontal pipe, then you used a bank switch to exit it early and drop down, but I'm not sure if that will be feasible on console.

I'm also aware of the hazards of going beyond ROM, into memory where things will be unpredictable, and possibly even volatile. That's why I've decided to hold off on practicing on emulator for now.

A variable timing window for the boulder in Macro Zone 1, eh? That just makes it even harder to perform >_> I'm not worried though, two people I know have a copy of the game that I can borrow, hopefully one of them has v1.0. I'll just complete Pumpkin Zone 1 for practicing purposes I guess.

I can bring in Fire power but I find that sometimes shooting things with fire can attempt to change ROM which would cause a crash. Some comments I read mention it's more for luck manipulation than for actually exploring garbage-hell, so I think I'll go without it, unless I need it to take a hit through some spikes.

I did some fooling around on emulator and I actually can't even get through the first layer of ROM (0x0000 to 0x4000). The terrain becomes increasingly wall-like and there's a huge layer of floor on the right side that I always get stuck on. I can't follow the map posted on the forums because I don't have a good frame of reference, and I can't copy the TAS because you guys manipulated a pipe in the garbage layers so you could go down a little ways =P

I'm aware of the bank-switching trick, and that should make things fairly weird to practice. You mentioned a massively long horizontal pipe, then you used a bank switch to exit it early and drop down, but I'm not sure if that will be feasible on console.

I'm also aware of the hazards of going beyond ROM, into memory where things will be unpredictable, and possibly even volatile. That's why I've decided to hold off on practicing on emulator for now.

A variable timing window for the boulder in Macro Zone 1, eh? That just makes it even harder to perform >_> I'm not worried though, two people I know have a copy of the game that I can borrow, hopefully one of them has v1.0. I'll just complete Pumpkin Zone 1 for practicing purposes I guess.

I can bring in Fire power but I find that sometimes shooting things with fire can attempt to change ROM which would cause a crash. Some comments I read mention it's more for luck manipulation than for actually exploring garbage-hell, so I think I'll go without it, unless I need it to take a hit through some spikes.

Mickey_Mage

Edit history:

Mickey_Mage: 2011-01-17 04:17:21 pm

2011-01-17 04:12:26 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

What did I just watch?... lol. I don't think I want to do a glitched run for this game anymore after watching 2 min. of brokenness.

MUGG

2011-01-17 05:26:09 pm

TASer

huh? I was pretty sure the TAS route through the ROM is also the best for a console speedrun.
Well, the greatest hurdle will be to get past some passages where you need to slide through, but get pushed back to where you were.
And once you're in the second 64 rows, it's pretty much trial-and-error, if you ask me... we didn't investigate this area very well.

variable timing in Macro Zone? It depends on the height of the rock which the ant throws, at the time you go down through the pipe. Well, the old route which plays through Pumpkin zone 1 is only ~15 seconds slower, and chances are that you have some mess-ups in the ROM area anyway, so making the run perfect will be a hard job. Maybe you can try doing it once you are more familiar with the out of bounds area.

Fire is probably not useful...

Also, I forgot about a glitch that lets you get out of bounds in v1.1. and v1.2 more easily.

Have the chibi dracula stand offscreen so he will spawn bats until all enemy slots are used up. 5 bats are usually enough to bounce off offscreen like in the video, though. After you did it, start running to the left, to the beginning of the level and you will find a way to the OoB area.

huh? I was pretty sure the TAS route through the ROM is also the best for a console speedrun. 
Well, the greatest hurdle will be to get past some passages where you need to slide through, but get pushed back to where you were.
And once you're in the second 64 rows, it's pretty much trial-and-error, if you ask me... we didn't investigate this area very well.

variable timing in Macro Zone? It depends on the height of the rock which the ant throws, at the time you go down through the pipe. Well, the old route which plays through Pumpkin zone 1 is only ~15 seconds slower, and chances are that you have some mess-ups in the ROM area anyway, so making the run perfect will be a hard job. Maybe you can try doing it once you are more familiar with the out of bounds area.

Fire is probably not useful...

Also, I forgot about a glitch that lets you get out of bounds in v1.1. and v1.2 more easily. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyvkg9ZuZ2c

Have the chibi dracula stand offscreen so he will spawn bats until all enemy slots are used up. 5 bats are usually enough to bounce off offscreen like in the video, though. After you did it, start running to the left, to the beginning of the level and you will find a way to the OoB area.

I have no name

2011-01-17 05:28:25 pm

Obscure games ftw

Quote from Mickey_Mage:

What did I just watch?

I'd like to know the answer to that too.
Good luck replicating that on console Shiner

Zeo

2011-01-17 09:18:40 pm

Just got the Macro zone pipe glitch to work, and on the Super Gameboy no less. So it IS doable on console.

Good luck with the run Shiner, I might work on the non-glitched version of this.

andymac

2011-01-17 11:10:25 pm

There is a second route through the first 64 rows that is a lot easier because you don't have to duck through some tight passageways.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/16140611/Super%20Mario%20Land%202%20-%206%20Golden%20Coins%20(UE)%20(V1.0)%20[!].vbm

I don't manipulate the pipe to appear, but I do manipulate how to go down the pipe in the TAS. It only saves a few frames anyway, so there's no real point for a speedrun. Once you get past the first 64 rows, you can screw around with B + ^ and B + V. There are a million and one ways to get to the credits block from there. The route I chose in my TAS was the fastest that I found, there are some areas in my route which require some pretty good timing though. If you continue to the right, the level repeats, and you will end up near the credits block anyway.

When you crush a block, you aren't writing to ROM, you send an instruction to the MBC. If you crush a block in the first 32 rows, it disables cartridge RAM and therefore resets the game. If you crush a block in the next 96 rows, it pretty much does nothing.

After a while, you can crush blocks and they will stay crushed. This is when you know you are near the depth you need to be.

As for the bank switching trick? sometimes you need it to fall through floors or continue, or exit a pipe. All you do is press B + ^. It's really easy. You get like a 10 frame window.

There is a second route through the first 64 rows that is a lot easier because you don't have to duck through some tight passageways.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/16140611/Super%20Mario%20Land%202%20-%206%20Golden%20Coins%20(UE)%20(V1.0)%20[!].vbm

I don't manipulate the pipe to appear, but I do manipulate how to go down the pipe in the TAS. It only saves a few frames anyway, so there's no real point for a speedrun. Once you get past the first 64 rows, you can screw around with B + ^ and B + V. There are a million and one ways to get to the credits block from there. The route I chose in my TAS was the fastest that I found, there are some areas in my route which require some pretty good timing though. If you continue to the right, the level repeats, and you will end up near the credits block anyway.

When you crush a block, you aren't writing to ROM, you send an instruction to the MBC. If you crush a block in the first 32 rows, it disables cartridge RAM and therefore resets the game. If you crush a block in the next 96 rows, it pretty much does nothing.

After a while, you can crush blocks and they will stay crushed. This is when you know you are near the depth you need to be.

As for the bank switching trick? sometimes you need it to fall through floors or continue, or exit a pipe. All you do is press B + ^. It's really easy. You get like a 10 frame window.

MUGG

2011-10-01 01:35:13 pm

TASer

New run (02:08.98):

holydiver42

2011-10-01 05:13:51 pm

Everybody DANCE!

Trippy...