1-Up!
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Sonic2.html
SS any% run
ILs
Verifier Responses
Conversation ensues between verifiers 4 and 6 regarding the quality of Metro 3 resulting in
After much discussion on how to handle the pausing and whether a penalty should be applied, this compromise was put forth-
So in this case, no penalty!
Decision: Accept all
Congratulations to Mike 'mike89' McKenzie!
SS any% run
ILs
Verifier Responses
Quote:
A/V: Looks fine, no skips/choppiness
Cheating: None
Metro 3 IL:
- This one looks pretty well done. From what I've heard about the new zip, it can be extremely difficult to get on your first try. As the runner does so, I have no problem accepting this IL solely on this. I do agree with the runner's comment that a spindash and less inching towards the zip point could make this faster, but it's the first time we're seeing this particular zip and they got it first try to boot!
W.F. IL:
- Again, the runner does a very good job with this IL. By taking some risks with the jumps and one-cycling the boss, the runner takes what could be a frustrating level and makes it seem like a walk in the park. If it's the runner I think it is, I know that missing the button to the boss probably tore them up (lol) but the rest of the attempt was so well done that I see it as a minor thing.
Full-Game Run:
First, I'm going to try and not go overboard with details, because 1) this isn't an essay and 2) usually when I give a lot of details, it tends to bore people. One thing to note is that my Verification notes won't be comparing this run and the previous run. I'll leave that to the others. I've only studied up on what a "current" run route should look like, so I don't think it would be appropriate if I tried to talk about an older route that I know little about. With that said, I'll simply list the highlights that affected my final decision for the run and only point out the differences that were improved on from the previous run. Therefore, some Zones may be left out. Onward!
- EH: The runner gets us off to a great start by finishing Act 1 in 20 seconds. 19, of course, would be awesome and, in this case, the runner was just a hair shy of getting said 19 seconds. We then move on to Act 2, where one would encounter possible death in the beginning if they should forget how to roll on through. Luckily, the runner has played this game a LOT and avoids the possibility. With quick precision and a few well-used speed shoes and invincibility, the runner is able to finish Act 2 in 38 seconds.
- CP: In Act 2, the runner has to set up a "hit" on Tails. This makes a very awesome shortcut available which skips the entire first half of the level! However, it can be very risky to pull off. See, the runner has to sort of "trick" Tails into going in front of Sonic to trigger this glitch. As this requires Sonic to get very close to the Badnik, along with having no rings, a death can happen if this is not pulled off carefully. In this run, the runner came very close (at least, from what I could tell) to having this happen, but manages to get Tails hit with success. After that, the runner must jump at a certain point on the downward slope and they'll end up at the normal part with all the platform jumping. However, setting up the "hit" on Tails switches the game's registration on the path you're taking, leading the game to believe that you've already completed the first half! From that point on, the runner finishes Act 2 with an awesome time of 43 seconds!
- OO: The only difference I noticed here was with Act 2. Normally, you activate the "Super Sonic" glitch, traverse through the oil as in Act 1, and work your way up to the Boss. This run uses a "Top-Route" which, while slower, the runner is probably more accustomed to this Route than the "Super Sonic Glitch" route.
- Metro: Now, here we are, the "meat" of the run, as it were. Metro 2 and 3 contain the two recent finds at the time of this Run and thus are what shave off a good chunk of time from the previous run (the only time I'll compare the two, I promise.). Metro 2 has a zip that, well, zips you from the beginning of the Act all the way to the signpost. If done fast enough, I believe this can net a time of 14 seconds, though the runner's time of 16 seconds is certainly nothing to be laughed at. As for Metro 3, it has a level wrap that takes you from the beginning of the Act, this time all the way to the Boss! Talk about major improvements!
- WF: As the case is with second-to-last levels, the runner doesn't hesitate to pull out all the stops. And they do just that by taking the dreaded "bottom route", as well as skipping some of the disappearing platforms, using some pretty cool speed tricks along the way, and getting to the Boss Room by actually LANDING on the button! The only thing that someone might gripe about is that the Boss isn't one-cycled, but if you're going to complain about that, I think you're missing the point about the rest of the level being very well done. No checkpoints were triggered in the playing of this Act.
- DE: Finally, we reach the Death Egg. Nothing new here with Silver Sonic, still the same old "4 spindash, 4 jump" routine. But what's interesting here is the runner's strategy for Robo Robotnik (Final Boss, whatever you want to call it). I saw some discussions in the Forum topic and saw that a fellow Sonic 2 player and I share the same view: We don't particularly like this strategy because of the great risk of screwing it all up by dying on the 12th hit. However, the runner was able to prove us wrong and show that a different, though less safe, strategy could be used.
Final Thoughts: Overall, this was a great run. It improved on a lot of things, but it also showed that there is still a drive to compete for this game. Being that Sonic 2 is one of my favorite games from my childhood, I hope that the community finds more to be done with this great game!
Table for Timing:
- EH1: 0:20
- EH2: 0:38
- CP1: 0:23
- CP2: 0:43
- AR1: 0:22
- AR2: 0:48
- CN1: 0:28
- CN2: 1:00
- HT1: 0:42
- HT2: 1:02
- MC1: 0:35
- MC2: 0:45
- OO1: 0:36
- OO2: 0:53
- Metro1: 1:07
- Metro2: 0:16
- Metro3: 0:47
- SC: 2:06
- WF: 1:52
- DE: 0:50
Total Run Time = 16:13
Decision: Accept on all three. It's finally time for a new Sonic 2 World Record and some new ILs!
Cheating: None
Metro 3 IL:
- This one looks pretty well done. From what I've heard about the new zip, it can be extremely difficult to get on your first try. As the runner does so, I have no problem accepting this IL solely on this. I do agree with the runner's comment that a spindash and less inching towards the zip point could make this faster, but it's the first time we're seeing this particular zip and they got it first try to boot!
W.F. IL:
- Again, the runner does a very good job with this IL. By taking some risks with the jumps and one-cycling the boss, the runner takes what could be a frustrating level and makes it seem like a walk in the park. If it's the runner I think it is, I know that missing the button to the boss probably tore them up (lol) but the rest of the attempt was so well done that I see it as a minor thing.
Full-Game Run:
First, I'm going to try and not go overboard with details, because 1) this isn't an essay and 2) usually when I give a lot of details, it tends to bore people. One thing to note is that my Verification notes won't be comparing this run and the previous run. I'll leave that to the others. I've only studied up on what a "current" run route should look like, so I don't think it would be appropriate if I tried to talk about an older route that I know little about. With that said, I'll simply list the highlights that affected my final decision for the run and only point out the differences that were improved on from the previous run. Therefore, some Zones may be left out. Onward!
- EH: The runner gets us off to a great start by finishing Act 1 in 20 seconds. 19, of course, would be awesome and, in this case, the runner was just a hair shy of getting said 19 seconds. We then move on to Act 2, where one would encounter possible death in the beginning if they should forget how to roll on through. Luckily, the runner has played this game a LOT and avoids the possibility. With quick precision and a few well-used speed shoes and invincibility, the runner is able to finish Act 2 in 38 seconds.
- CP: In Act 2, the runner has to set up a "hit" on Tails. This makes a very awesome shortcut available which skips the entire first half of the level! However, it can be very risky to pull off. See, the runner has to sort of "trick" Tails into going in front of Sonic to trigger this glitch. As this requires Sonic to get very close to the Badnik, along with having no rings, a death can happen if this is not pulled off carefully. In this run, the runner came very close (at least, from what I could tell) to having this happen, but manages to get Tails hit with success. After that, the runner must jump at a certain point on the downward slope and they'll end up at the normal part with all the platform jumping. However, setting up the "hit" on Tails switches the game's registration on the path you're taking, leading the game to believe that you've already completed the first half! From that point on, the runner finishes Act 2 with an awesome time of 43 seconds!
- OO: The only difference I noticed here was with Act 2. Normally, you activate the "Super Sonic" glitch, traverse through the oil as in Act 1, and work your way up to the Boss. This run uses a "Top-Route" which, while slower, the runner is probably more accustomed to this Route than the "Super Sonic Glitch" route.
- Metro: Now, here we are, the "meat" of the run, as it were. Metro 2 and 3 contain the two recent finds at the time of this Run and thus are what shave off a good chunk of time from the previous run (the only time I'll compare the two, I promise.). Metro 2 has a zip that, well, zips you from the beginning of the Act all the way to the signpost. If done fast enough, I believe this can net a time of 14 seconds, though the runner's time of 16 seconds is certainly nothing to be laughed at. As for Metro 3, it has a level wrap that takes you from the beginning of the Act, this time all the way to the Boss! Talk about major improvements!
- WF: As the case is with second-to-last levels, the runner doesn't hesitate to pull out all the stops. And they do just that by taking the dreaded "bottom route", as well as skipping some of the disappearing platforms, using some pretty cool speed tricks along the way, and getting to the Boss Room by actually LANDING on the button! The only thing that someone might gripe about is that the Boss isn't one-cycled, but if you're going to complain about that, I think you're missing the point about the rest of the level being very well done. No checkpoints were triggered in the playing of this Act.
- DE: Finally, we reach the Death Egg. Nothing new here with Silver Sonic, still the same old "4 spindash, 4 jump" routine. But what's interesting here is the runner's strategy for Robo Robotnik (Final Boss, whatever you want to call it). I saw some discussions in the Forum topic and saw that a fellow Sonic 2 player and I share the same view: We don't particularly like this strategy because of the great risk of screwing it all up by dying on the 12th hit. However, the runner was able to prove us wrong and show that a different, though less safe, strategy could be used.
Final Thoughts: Overall, this was a great run. It improved on a lot of things, but it also showed that there is still a drive to compete for this game. Being that Sonic 2 is one of my favorite games from my childhood, I hope that the community finds more to be done with this great game!
Table for Timing:
- EH1: 0:20
- EH2: 0:38
- CP1: 0:23
- CP2: 0:43
- AR1: 0:22
- AR2: 0:48
- CN1: 0:28
- CN2: 1:00
- HT1: 0:42
- HT2: 1:02
- MC1: 0:35
- MC2: 0:45
- OO1: 0:36
- OO2: 0:53
- Metro1: 1:07
- Metro2: 0:16
- Metro3: 0:47
- SC: 2:06
- WF: 1:52
- DE: 0:50
Total Run Time = 16:13
Decision: Accept on all three. It's finally time for a new Sonic 2 World Record and some new ILs!
Quote:
a/v is fine
SS run-
Missed the jump 18 seconds into Chem Plant 2, first significant mistake, though it only costs a few seconds. He nails the jumps afterwards so it's all good.
About 13 seconds into Aquatic Ruin 2 there is a pretty tight jump, only 2 frames in emulator, he does not get it. However he manages to do a minor recovery by getting over the ledge and not hitting the pillar, so not too much time is lost.
Good boss fight in Casino Night.
Start of Oil Ocean 1 is pretty bad, mostly cosmetic.
Single cycle boss fight on OO2, good fight.
Missed the first wrap in Metro 1, fourth star enemy can be used as a visual cue, right before it touches the top of the screen.
Gets hit on Sky Chase, REJECTED.
Good Wing Fortress, only significant time saver would be a single cycle boss fight, which would be crazy impressive in a ss run.
A few mistakes here and there, but a solid run all things considered. Accept.
Now the IL runs.
Metro3- Stanski has a 42 on soniccenter for Metro 3, 45 is 2nd place time. Given that it is an IL, there are really high standards, but seeing how this is an improvement over the current SDA IL run, I'll give it a yes.
WF- Stanski has a 1:43 on soniccenter, so another 3 seconds ahead. Same deal though, I'll give it a yes.
SS run-
Missed the jump 18 seconds into Chem Plant 2, first significant mistake, though it only costs a few seconds. He nails the jumps afterwards so it's all good.
About 13 seconds into Aquatic Ruin 2 there is a pretty tight jump, only 2 frames in emulator, he does not get it. However he manages to do a minor recovery by getting over the ledge and not hitting the pillar, so not too much time is lost.
Good boss fight in Casino Night.
Start of Oil Ocean 1 is pretty bad, mostly cosmetic.
Single cycle boss fight on OO2, good fight.
Missed the first wrap in Metro 1, fourth star enemy can be used as a visual cue, right before it touches the top of the screen.
Gets hit on Sky Chase, REJECTED.
Good Wing Fortress, only significant time saver would be a single cycle boss fight, which would be crazy impressive in a ss run.
A few mistakes here and there, but a solid run all things considered. Accept.
Now the IL runs.
Metro3- Stanski has a 42 on soniccenter for Metro 3, 45 is 2nd place time. Given that it is an IL, there are really high standards, but seeing how this is an improvement over the current SDA IL run, I'll give it a yes.
WF- Stanski has a 1:43 on soniccenter, so another 3 seconds ahead. Same deal though, I'll give it a yes.
Quote:
A/V is fine, no cheating.
SS Run:
EH1: standard 20 start
EH2: A fairly conservative route here, but it's well executed, 38 is very good for it
CP1: standard 23 again
CP2: Missing the jump at 18 seconds was a bit painful, but the rest was really good so it's passable
AR1: Fantastic jump to speed shoes, almost got a golden 21
AR2: ...Not one of the best levels, but this level does suck.
CN1: Very nice.
CN2: Very nice again.
HT1: Very standard run, some conservative strats, but no mistakes at all.
HT2: This could certainly have been faster, but no incredibly major mitsakes.
MC1: Fairly conversative here too, no mistakes at all but some extra ramo jumps and spindashes can cut a few seconds off here too
MC2: Oh wow, this is actually the easiest level to time attack in the game and it was pretty bad. As bad as it looks though, it only costs a handful of seconds.
OO1: Runner clearly forgets how the stupid speedcap even kicks in here. Rest of the level was pretty good, getting under 2 poles per spindash in the oil.
OO2: There are 3 ways to beat this level in under 40 seconds. However all of them suck, and all of them require beating the boss in one cycle without invincibility, which if you miss costs you more than the 15 seconds you just tried to make up. Instead the runner takes a fairly consistent route, and does it fairly well.
Metro1: Ugggh, probably the worst level of the run, missing the screenwrap costs a fair bit of time, and lots of little mistakes throughout the run too.
Metro2: Went well
Metro3: And here's the make or break part of the run, sucks that it's so late. Goes almost flawlessly.
WF: This was actually really good for the end of a run until lol that jump after the boss.
DE: Can't ask for more (or less) than a 10-2 on the final boss here, great finish to a great run.
ILS:
Metro3: This can definately be improved especially given how short a time you're actually playing, but it's a huge improvement over the current IL so it's an accept.
WF: At the time this was the first 1 cycle on the boss as Stanski's 1:43 required checkpoint abuse, however with the new slope glitch method on the boss I'm sure this can be beaten. Will still accept as it's a great improvement over the current SDA IL.
Decision: Accept on all three. All three can definitely be improved, but they are all great improvements to the current SDA run, and all three deomnstrate great ability by the runner.
SS Run:
EH1: standard 20 start
EH2: A fairly conservative route here, but it's well executed, 38 is very good for it
CP1: standard 23 again
CP2: Missing the jump at 18 seconds was a bit painful, but the rest was really good so it's passable
AR1: Fantastic jump to speed shoes, almost got a golden 21
AR2: ...Not one of the best levels, but this level does suck.
CN1: Very nice.
CN2: Very nice again.
HT1: Very standard run, some conservative strats, but no mistakes at all.
HT2: This could certainly have been faster, but no incredibly major mitsakes.
MC1: Fairly conversative here too, no mistakes at all but some extra ramo jumps and spindashes can cut a few seconds off here too
MC2: Oh wow, this is actually the easiest level to time attack in the game and it was pretty bad. As bad as it looks though, it only costs a handful of seconds.
OO1: Runner clearly forgets how the stupid speedcap even kicks in here. Rest of the level was pretty good, getting under 2 poles per spindash in the oil.
OO2: There are 3 ways to beat this level in under 40 seconds. However all of them suck, and all of them require beating the boss in one cycle without invincibility, which if you miss costs you more than the 15 seconds you just tried to make up. Instead the runner takes a fairly consistent route, and does it fairly well.
Metro1: Ugggh, probably the worst level of the run, missing the screenwrap costs a fair bit of time, and lots of little mistakes throughout the run too.
Metro2: Went well
Metro3: And here's the make or break part of the run, sucks that it's so late. Goes almost flawlessly.
WF: This was actually really good for the end of a run until lol that jump after the boss.
DE: Can't ask for more (or less) than a 10-2 on the final boss here, great finish to a great run.
ILS:
Metro3: This can definately be improved especially given how short a time you're actually playing, but it's a huge improvement over the current IL so it's an accept.
WF: At the time this was the first 1 cycle on the boss as Stanski's 1:43 required checkpoint abuse, however with the new slope glitch method on the boss I'm sure this can be beaten. Will still accept as it's a great improvement over the current SDA IL.
Decision: Accept on all three. All three can definitely be improved, but they are all great improvements to the current SDA run, and all three deomnstrate great ability by the runner.
Quote:
No cheating involved here in the runs, av and sound are good, and everything is an improvement.
Would like to see the IL's refined further but its a hell of a lot easier to do IL's on emulator than on console with the ability to instantly reset/spindash faster on keyboard. Really happy to see wing fortress IL improved, that 1 round boss fight is really tough.
Accept obv
Would like to see the IL's refined further but its a hell of a lot easier to do IL's on emulator than on console with the ability to instantly reset/spindash faster on keyboard. Really happy to see wing fortress IL improved, that 1 round boss fight is really tough.
Accept obv
Quote from Same guy:
One small note, I think there should be a small penalty assessed for the pausing in metro 2. There are a ton of areas in the game where you can line up jumps by pausing, and there has to be some sort of penalty for doing so or else a future run could theoretically include tons of pauses everywhere. I also mentioned this back when mike did his sonic 1 run, but I didn't push for it very much and only mentioned it in passing. A 1 second penalty seems sufficient but perhaps others can chime in here with their opinions on it.
Quote from verifier 1:
"penalty assessed for pausing in metro 2."
I actually did notice that upon first viewing and was going to mention it in my notes. The reason I didn't was because it seemed like a very quick pause. However, now that the above verifier mentioned the potential snag of pausing in multiple places for future runs, I wouldn't see a problem with just adding +1 to Metro 2, making it :17.
I actually did notice that upon first viewing and was going to mention it in my notes. The reason I didn't was because it seemed like a very quick pause. However, now that the above verifier mentioned the potential snag of pausing in multiple places for future runs, I wouldn't see a problem with just adding +1 to Metro 2, making it :17.
Quote:
Video's good.
Audio: couple of minor things. Not sure if they can be dealt with or not, but they shouldn't matter too much either way.
- On both ILs, there is a short blip of out-of-place sound after the SDA station ID and just before the level music starts.
- On both ILs, there's no audio at the last ~3 seconds before the end station ID.
No cheating noticed.
I'll probably be repeating a lot of the stuff that has been said (especially by the runner himself, who wrote very detailed comments), but I suppose the point of having multiple verifiers is to get more opinions, confirmations, etc. so I'll proceed anyway.
Metropolis 3 IL as Sonic:
Got the extremely precise position for the zip after moving left only 3 times, so that's certainly looking good. Beating the boss this way is not as easy as it may look, but the runner knows how to do it, and it goes to plan. 0:45.
Decision: Accept
Wing Fortress IL as Sonic:
Doesn't have to wait long for the platforms that pop out of the side of the ship. Run is going well until the missed cap at 0:35, which costs a second. One-round boss, though! Some very good players have only gotten a one-round boss fight after checkpoint abuse + dozens of tries, so doing it without checkpoint abuse is awesome. 1:46; not perfect, but still very good, and a definite improvement.
Decision: Accept
Single-segment run as Sonic:
EH1 - 20, bouncy strat goes nicely.
EH2 - Very nice ramp jump onto the invincibility box. Easily gets 38.
CP1 - Low 23, solid stuff. Due to the moving blocks at 0:10, it doesn't matter if the beginning can be optimized, unless the runner does so well as to get the early block cycle for a 20 or 21 (but that seems to be IL-only material).
CP2 - The "wrong route" Tails trick goes well. Ramp jump at 0:18 wasn't as good as it could be (optimally you'd go up to the top, skipping the rotating platforms), but it's not easy to nail that jump perfectly. A perfect jump would save about 3 seconds. The rest of the level is solid though; and I love that strategy to go over the last gap before the boss. 43 finish.
AR1 - The spring at 0:11 luckily didn't slow down the runner. The jump onto the speed shoes was perfect; didn't touch the water, which can actually nullify the speed shoes effect. Final loop skip goes well too. A really solid 22, close to 21!
AR2 - The difficult underwater ramp jump doesn't go as intended, so the runner has to go for the low route. The runner takes an intentional hit to more easily come to a stop for the next spindash (and dodging those arrows is slow anyway). Coming out of the water, the runner manages to dodge the flies. On Robotnik, if the 8th hit is gotten just as Robotnik's hammer hits the totem pole, the screen will scroll to the right immediately when Robotnik's ship starts exploding, saving 3 or so seconds. The runner delays the 8th hit to try for this, but doesn't get the glitch; it is a frame perfect trick though. 0:48.
CN1 - Just barely beat the blue block at 0:16, and took the upper route at the end! I think this strategy would actually be a little easier if you hit the speed shoes box later, because you have to wait for the block next to the invincibility anyway... but it ended up not mattering here, the speed shoes wore off after all the running and jumping. 28 is awesome for an SS run.
CN2 - Great ramp jump at 0:10, bumpers at 0:29 went well, passed through the flippers at 0:39. To top it all off, got the difficult bouncy boss strat! 1:00.
HT1 - Looks like the lava glitch and wall zip went well, 0:42.
HT2 - Quite solid except for missing the ring box bounce at 0:34, but that's not much of a time loss. 1:02.
MC1 - The bridge skip at 25 and the following step jumps go very smoothly. Low 35.
MC2 - A second or two lost by getting hit at the boss, due to trying to rely on Tails to save a bit of time on the first couple of hits. Level was good though, 0:45.
OO1 - Visible mistakes at the beginning, but the runner performs very well on the rest of the level (including the roll under the posts at 0:27), doesn't have to wait for the last fan, and finishes strong. 0:36.
OO2 - The runner forgoes some difficult zippy routes in favor of this consistent but somewhat slower strategy. Run goes quite well, with a one-round Robotnik finish; only nitpick is that the oil slides at 0:35 could probably be optimized a bit better. 0:53.
M1 - A few hesitations/missed jumps here and there. Missed the screenwrap + screw clip trick once and had to do it again. Weakest level in the run by far, though that's not saying a lot, and it wasn't too much time lost (in the neighborhood of 10 seconds). 1:07.
M2 - Level wrap goes well. I hadn't realized until reading the runner's comments that the part at 0:08 involves pressing Right in a 2-frame-window... it's easy to take this glitch for granted, having only watched it myself. 0:16.
M3 - The level wrap is a critical moment of the run, and it works first try! Robotnik goes down very quickly, too; the runner has a method of hitting him 3 or 4 times before he goes too high into the air, thus greatly reducing the number of "cycles" compared to getting the hits one by one. 0:47.
SC - Ruined the perfect rings early on.
It doesn't affect the time at all, but the runner goes for as many rings as possible and as large of an enemy combo as possible. It makes for a good show of keeping things entertaining during the downtime. 2:06.
WF - The runner braves the dreaded bottom route at the beginning. It is essential to start the bottom route at about the exact same time every time, so the sky platforms are where you expect them to be. The runner luckily doesn't have to wait for the platforms that pop out of the side of the ship at 0:19. (According to Aglar, a Sonic 2 TASer, these platforms run on a 256 frame rule which spans the entire game; thus, the platform timing is affected by how fast you go in previous levels!) Pretty ridiculous jump at 0:28. The boss fight goes quite well until hit 5, where the runner doesn't manage to get hit back onto one of the spike platforms. But a 6-2 boss is still quite a respectable result. 1:52.
DE - Silver Sonic goes well. Very respectable 10-2 Robotnik fight. Note that the jetpack's flame will kill you (hit 6 was very close to it!), and going too far into the robot's foot will kill you, so precision and muscle memory help a great deal in this fight. The runner was clearly prepared to finish strong. Low 0:50.
I also calculate an in-game time of 16:13.
Overall - A really solid run throughout; almost all of the glitching and major tricks went fantastic. There are always more tricks that can be done and more risks that can be taken, but it's already clear that the runner has put in the time and effort to learn as many major and minor timesavers as possible for this run. Execution-wise, Casino Night might be the highlight zone, IMO. Metropolis 1 was the weakest level with 10-ish seconds lost; other than that there were a few losses of 1-3 seconds here and there, but really not much at all in the world of precise and glitchy Sonic speedrunning. Congratulations on an excellent run!
Decision - Accept
Audio: couple of minor things. Not sure if they can be dealt with or not, but they shouldn't matter too much either way.
- On both ILs, there is a short blip of out-of-place sound after the SDA station ID and just before the level music starts.
- On both ILs, there's no audio at the last ~3 seconds before the end station ID.
No cheating noticed.
I'll probably be repeating a lot of the stuff that has been said (especially by the runner himself, who wrote very detailed comments), but I suppose the point of having multiple verifiers is to get more opinions, confirmations, etc. so I'll proceed anyway.
Metropolis 3 IL as Sonic:
Got the extremely precise position for the zip after moving left only 3 times, so that's certainly looking good. Beating the boss this way is not as easy as it may look, but the runner knows how to do it, and it goes to plan. 0:45.
Decision: Accept
Wing Fortress IL as Sonic:
Doesn't have to wait long for the platforms that pop out of the side of the ship. Run is going well until the missed cap at 0:35, which costs a second. One-round boss, though! Some very good players have only gotten a one-round boss fight after checkpoint abuse + dozens of tries, so doing it without checkpoint abuse is awesome. 1:46; not perfect, but still very good, and a definite improvement.
Decision: Accept
Single-segment run as Sonic:
EH1 - 20, bouncy strat goes nicely.
EH2 - Very nice ramp jump onto the invincibility box. Easily gets 38.
CP1 - Low 23, solid stuff. Due to the moving blocks at 0:10, it doesn't matter if the beginning can be optimized, unless the runner does so well as to get the early block cycle for a 20 or 21 (but that seems to be IL-only material).
CP2 - The "wrong route" Tails trick goes well. Ramp jump at 0:18 wasn't as good as it could be (optimally you'd go up to the top, skipping the rotating platforms), but it's not easy to nail that jump perfectly. A perfect jump would save about 3 seconds. The rest of the level is solid though; and I love that strategy to go over the last gap before the boss. 43 finish.
AR1 - The spring at 0:11 luckily didn't slow down the runner. The jump onto the speed shoes was perfect; didn't touch the water, which can actually nullify the speed shoes effect. Final loop skip goes well too. A really solid 22, close to 21!
AR2 - The difficult underwater ramp jump doesn't go as intended, so the runner has to go for the low route. The runner takes an intentional hit to more easily come to a stop for the next spindash (and dodging those arrows is slow anyway). Coming out of the water, the runner manages to dodge the flies. On Robotnik, if the 8th hit is gotten just as Robotnik's hammer hits the totem pole, the screen will scroll to the right immediately when Robotnik's ship starts exploding, saving 3 or so seconds. The runner delays the 8th hit to try for this, but doesn't get the glitch; it is a frame perfect trick though. 0:48.
CN1 - Just barely beat the blue block at 0:16, and took the upper route at the end! I think this strategy would actually be a little easier if you hit the speed shoes box later, because you have to wait for the block next to the invincibility anyway... but it ended up not mattering here, the speed shoes wore off after all the running and jumping. 28 is awesome for an SS run.
CN2 - Great ramp jump at 0:10, bumpers at 0:29 went well, passed through the flippers at 0:39. To top it all off, got the difficult bouncy boss strat! 1:00.
HT1 - Looks like the lava glitch and wall zip went well, 0:42.
HT2 - Quite solid except for missing the ring box bounce at 0:34, but that's not much of a time loss. 1:02.
MC1 - The bridge skip at 25 and the following step jumps go very smoothly. Low 35.
MC2 - A second or two lost by getting hit at the boss, due to trying to rely on Tails to save a bit of time on the first couple of hits. Level was good though, 0:45.
OO1 - Visible mistakes at the beginning, but the runner performs very well on the rest of the level (including the roll under the posts at 0:27), doesn't have to wait for the last fan, and finishes strong. 0:36.
OO2 - The runner forgoes some difficult zippy routes in favor of this consistent but somewhat slower strategy. Run goes quite well, with a one-round Robotnik finish; only nitpick is that the oil slides at 0:35 could probably be optimized a bit better. 0:53.
M1 - A few hesitations/missed jumps here and there. Missed the screenwrap + screw clip trick once and had to do it again. Weakest level in the run by far, though that's not saying a lot, and it wasn't too much time lost (in the neighborhood of 10 seconds). 1:07.
M2 - Level wrap goes well. I hadn't realized until reading the runner's comments that the part at 0:08 involves pressing Right in a 2-frame-window... it's easy to take this glitch for granted, having only watched it myself. 0:16.
M3 - The level wrap is a critical moment of the run, and it works first try! Robotnik goes down very quickly, too; the runner has a method of hitting him 3 or 4 times before he goes too high into the air, thus greatly reducing the number of "cycles" compared to getting the hits one by one. 0:47.
SC - Ruined the perfect rings early on.
WF - The runner braves the dreaded bottom route at the beginning. It is essential to start the bottom route at about the exact same time every time, so the sky platforms are where you expect them to be. The runner luckily doesn't have to wait for the platforms that pop out of the side of the ship at 0:19. (According to Aglar, a Sonic 2 TASer, these platforms run on a 256 frame rule which spans the entire game; thus, the platform timing is affected by how fast you go in previous levels!) Pretty ridiculous jump at 0:28. The boss fight goes quite well until hit 5, where the runner doesn't manage to get hit back onto one of the spike platforms. But a 6-2 boss is still quite a respectable result. 1:52.
DE - Silver Sonic goes well. Very respectable 10-2 Robotnik fight. Note that the jetpack's flame will kill you (hit 6 was very close to it!), and going too far into the robot's foot will kill you, so precision and muscle memory help a great deal in this fight. The runner was clearly prepared to finish strong. Low 0:50.
I also calculate an in-game time of 16:13.
Overall - A really solid run throughout; almost all of the glitching and major tricks went fantastic. There are always more tricks that can be done and more risks that can be taken, but it's already clear that the runner has put in the time and effort to learn as many major and minor timesavers as possible for this run. Execution-wise, Casino Night might be the highlight zone, IMO. Metropolis 1 was the weakest level with 10-ish seconds lost; other than that there were a few losses of 1-3 seconds here and there, but really not much at all in the world of precise and glitchy Sonic speedrunning. Congratulations on an excellent run!
Decision - Accept
Quote:
The other verifiers have said a lot about this already so I'll try to keep this short and sweet.
A/V is fine, no cheating detected.
SS Run Comments:
EH1: Standard 20.
EH2: Smooth, solid level.
CP1: Remarkably close to the earlier cycle for an SS, great level.
CP2: Disappointing ramp-jump 'failure' but not much time lost.
AR1: Very nice indeed, no noticable mistakes.
AR2: The underwater jump is horrific (3 frame window I believe) and so this is acceptable, not much time lost. One day we'll get the boss glitch in an SS.
CN1: Love this strat for the jumps in this level, very well thought through and executed.
CN2: Again, very smooth.
HT1: Perfect zip, all good here. For ages I used to mess the end of this level up by holding right after the spindash into the box, stupid speed cap.
HT2: A second or two slow up to the platforms which makes no difference, missed the single jump over the 'spring pit' but that's very tight, a second or two lost.
MC1: Man up and spindash off the rising pillars
Great level.
MC2: I love Mystic Caves, that bassline. Pity about the boss, otherwise this is an amazing looking level.
OO1: Shaky start, as mentioned by the others. Recovers well however, got past that damn fan.
OO2: I like this route, one rounding the boss without invincibility is hell so this is probably the most consistent way to do this level in an SS. Oil slides weren't great though.
M1: Worst level by far, I like the idea of spindashing to get the screenwrap though. The whole level looks pretty sloppy but there isn't much time lost in the grand sceme of things and it's late in the run.
M2: I hate the timing for this glitch, I'm odd in that I'm more consistant at metro3... Nicely executed.
M3: Not too much setup for the zip, fab boss.
SC: Obligatory "You missed an enemy/rings! Reject!" joke. I once wrote an arrangement of this song for symphony orchestra, gorgeous piece of music. The runner unfortunately ruins it with multiple extra-life sound effects.
WF: Very smooth indeed. Not sure if the slope-glitch method for the boss (which would save 5 seconds or so I believe) had been discovered by this point but it's a solid level either way.
DE: I know I'm not the only one that thinks the runner is a bit of a nutter for doing the 10-2 Egg Emperor rather than the much easier 9-3 that only takes a second more but hey, who am I to judge?
I agree with the final timing of 16:13.
Verdict: Accept, great run.
With regards to the pausing issue... It's a tough one to be honest as we certainly have precedent for it to be ignored, at least in small doses, not least in another run by the same runner that has recently gone through verification. So I'll defer to the judgement of my fellow verifiers and of course the SDA staff on that matter, whatever they decide is fine by me.
A/V is fine, no cheating detected.
SS Run Comments:
EH1: Standard 20.
EH2: Smooth, solid level.
CP1: Remarkably close to the earlier cycle for an SS, great level.
CP2: Disappointing ramp-jump 'failure' but not much time lost.
AR1: Very nice indeed, no noticable mistakes.
AR2: The underwater jump is horrific (3 frame window I believe) and so this is acceptable, not much time lost. One day we'll get the boss glitch in an SS.
CN1: Love this strat for the jumps in this level, very well thought through and executed.
CN2: Again, very smooth.
HT1: Perfect zip, all good here. For ages I used to mess the end of this level up by holding right after the spindash into the box, stupid speed cap.
HT2: A second or two slow up to the platforms which makes no difference, missed the single jump over the 'spring pit' but that's very tight, a second or two lost.
MC1: Man up and spindash off the rising pillars
MC2: I love Mystic Caves, that bassline. Pity about the boss, otherwise this is an amazing looking level.
OO1: Shaky start, as mentioned by the others. Recovers well however, got past that damn fan.
OO2: I like this route, one rounding the boss without invincibility is hell so this is probably the most consistent way to do this level in an SS. Oil slides weren't great though.
M1: Worst level by far, I like the idea of spindashing to get the screenwrap though. The whole level looks pretty sloppy but there isn't much time lost in the grand sceme of things and it's late in the run.
M2: I hate the timing for this glitch, I'm odd in that I'm more consistant at metro3... Nicely executed.
M3: Not too much setup for the zip, fab boss.
SC: Obligatory "You missed an enemy/rings! Reject!" joke. I once wrote an arrangement of this song for symphony orchestra, gorgeous piece of music. The runner unfortunately ruins it with multiple extra-life sound effects.
WF: Very smooth indeed. Not sure if the slope-glitch method for the boss (which would save 5 seconds or so I believe) had been discovered by this point but it's a solid level either way.
DE: I know I'm not the only one that thinks the runner is a bit of a nutter for doing the 10-2 Egg Emperor rather than the much easier 9-3 that only takes a second more but hey, who am I to judge?
I agree with the final timing of 16:13.
Verdict: Accept, great run.
With regards to the pausing issue... It's a tough one to be honest as we certainly have precedent for it to be ignored, at least in small doses, not least in another run by the same runner that has recently gone through verification. So I'll defer to the judgement of my fellow verifiers and of course the SDA staff on that matter, whatever they decide is fine by me.
Quote from Same guy:
Now the IL's.
Wing Fortress: Apart from the missed jump onto the cap, this is a very smoothly done level. The new glitch involving the boss could possibly result in an obsoletion of this very quickly but for now this is a great run, one rounding the boss is extremely tough, and I think this deserves an accept.
Metropolis 3: I'm going to be slightly controvertial with this one I'm afraid. Whereas this is undoubtedly well executed, the fact remains that with a spindash to begin the level, 1-2 seconds can be shaved off this. While this is hard, I beilieve there is only a very small frame window to kill the mantis thing without getting hit, this is an IL. After an hour or so of trying, I duplicated this time myself and so with regret, I have to reject this IL time as I believe that a :44 or even :43 should be possible for the runner to accomplish.
Wing Fortress: Apart from the missed jump onto the cap, this is a very smoothly done level. The new glitch involving the boss could possibly result in an obsoletion of this very quickly but for now this is a great run, one rounding the boss is extremely tough, and I think this deserves an accept.
Metropolis 3: I'm going to be slightly controvertial with this one I'm afraid. Whereas this is undoubtedly well executed, the fact remains that with a spindash to begin the level, 1-2 seconds can be shaved off this. While this is hard, I beilieve there is only a very small frame window to kill the mantis thing without getting hit, this is an IL. After an hour or so of trying, I duplicated this time myself and so with regret, I have to reject this IL time as I believe that a :44 or even :43 should be possible for the runner to accomplish.
Conversation ensues between verifiers 4 and 6 regarding the quality of Metro 3 resulting in
Quote from Verifier 6:
It's a fair point, and in reality it could possibly be hypocritical of me as I miss out tricks in my run as they're just too damn annoying. Ok you've convinced me, retcon my verdict to an accept, although I still think the runner should try and improve the time.
Quote from Verifier 4:
Ok I retract my statement on metro 3 after playing around with it for a bit because I completely forgot how to optimally play the start of the level (I assumed you needed to do a full spindash, but forgot you need a way to stop and you are still rolling after going through that enemy). if you spindash at the start and jump on the grasshopper enemy, it saves a good amount of time and is not difficult to do at all. Combine this with a better boss strategy (which its possible to do, you don't actually have to wait to hit the boss like he does if you attack him from the right side on the 2nd spindash instead of the left side) and you can easily save a couple seconds. It is an improvement so I'm still obviously voting accept, but just wanted to clarify that you can't spindash through the first enemy there at the beginning part of the stage, you have to spindash and jump. Would like to see him push it to :42 as I think thats the limit, but getting the glitch to happen in a timely fashion is really tough.
Quote:
Guess I get to keep these short, since most things were said already.
single-segment run: Pretty good run. Noticed a few spots where safe strats were used; others went more in-depth on various things. Almost all stages can be improved by at least a second or two, but this is a Sonic game. Biggest single mistake would be missing a screenwrap in metro 1, which cost him probably 5-10 seconds. General precision throughout the game was impressive regardless. Lots of stages (AR1, CN 1/2, MC1/2 except for a 1-sec screwup on the boss, WF just as examples) looked really nice.
Sub-16 is possible, but there's an ocean between saying it's possible and getting it. Easy accept.
one other thing,
ahahahahah
Wing Fortress IL: Improveable by a couple seconds (sda will apparently always have a run with a cap miss). Didn't even know a 1-cycle boss was possible until a couple years ago. Doesn't do the jump-through-barrier trick afterward, but I can't really blame him. Regardless of the truth of the previous sentence, it's an accept.
Metro 3 IL: Improveable by two seconds apparently. Zip is pretty hard. Accept.
A/V's fine. I think the audio artifacts verifier 4 heard before the starts of the ILs were because they were pulled from SS attempts? No idea why it cut out early though. No cheating.
single-segment run: Pretty good run. Noticed a few spots where safe strats were used; others went more in-depth on various things. Almost all stages can be improved by at least a second or two, but this is a Sonic game. Biggest single mistake would be missing a screenwrap in metro 1, which cost him probably 5-10 seconds. General precision throughout the game was impressive regardless. Lots of stages (AR1, CN 1/2, MC1/2 except for a 1-sec screwup on the boss, WF just as examples) looked really nice.
Sub-16 is possible, but there's an ocean between saying it's possible and getting it. Easy accept.
one other thing,
Quote:
(According to Aglar, a Sonic 2 TASer, these [wing fortress] platforms run on a 256 frame rule which spans the entire game; thus, the platform timing is affected by how fast you go in previous levels!)
ahahahahah
Wing Fortress IL: Improveable by a couple seconds (sda will apparently always have a run with a cap miss). Didn't even know a 1-cycle boss was possible until a couple years ago. Doesn't do the jump-through-barrier trick afterward, but I can't really blame him. Regardless of the truth of the previous sentence, it's an accept.
Metro 3 IL: Improveable by two seconds apparently. Zip is pretty hard. Accept.
A/V's fine. I think the audio artifacts verifier 4 heard before the starts of the ILs were because they were pulled from SS attempts? No idea why it cut out early though. No cheating.
After much discussion on how to handle the pausing and whether a penalty should be applied, this compromise was put forth-
Quote:
I just slowed the video down in vlc and counted 54 frames, give or take a few. If we use my suggestion of adding total timing paused rounded down to the nearest second, this would be 0.
So in this case, no penalty!
Decision: Accept all
Congratulations to Mike 'mike89' McKenzie!
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