1-Up!
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SS any% run
Verifier Responses
Decision: Accept
Congratulations to Mike 'mike89' McKenzie!
SS any% run
Verifier Responses
Quote:
TL;DR:
Decision: Approved
Reasons:
This is my first verification so excuse my noobishness. After a thorough sitdown of the whole video, I didn't see any quality issues, and of course no cheating. The only thing left for approval was the execution.
As Mike89's comments on the run detail, this game is filled with ridiculous random luck. Even a single missed shot can result in many seconds of lost time if you don't know how to handle the rebounds. Holding down becomes a staple of maintaining any semblance of control with Sonic.
It should be noted that for those not familiar with the game, the current TAS "no emeralds" completion of Toxic Caves is a TAS-only trick. It requires significant frame-perfect control for ~5 seconds straight. For this reason a normal speedrun of Sonic Spinball can't be expected to pull that off.
However, there are many other tricks in this run that were pulled off, with varying levels of time saved. Notable ones include excellent bounces in the Toxic Caves (both the worm loops and the last stage of the boss), the double shot on the ferron at the beginning of Lava Powerhouse, and the rebound shots for the plugs in Lava Powerhouse. Immense amounts of luck was demonstrated in the Animal Cage of The Machine, as well as all the bonus stages.
Despite a heart-breaking loss of time at The Showdown boss, the raw amount of concentrated luck in this run is going to be extremely difficult to reproduce. While there is easily a minute's worth of time that could be saved in this run, it may be many thousands of tries before such a good combination comes again.
For that reason, my decision is to approve this run.
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Here is a full list of noteworthy things to keep an eye out for when watching this speedrun:
00:19 - One of the two bounces over the Worm heads. Believe it or not this alone can save 5 seconds or more, just because of ridiculous bouncing. And it's done twice! Difficulty: Low
00:47 - Nailing that bridge shot first try is pretty hard. Nailing it while the screen is scrolling down for the "swim trip" is much harder. Difficulty: Average
01:17 - Using the flipper to switch the cart around allows you to reuse the left table without travelling through the main table. Difficulty: Zero
02:50 - As mentioned, the most infuriating glitch with this boss is the "tail flip death". Every once in a while, he'll flip his tail to the other side while you're bouncing around inside. Sometimes, when he does so, it kills you. It's probably some weird collision issue, as the boss does not have any traditional ways of killing you at all (even the poison drips simply push you back down, they do not hurt you). Difficulty: Annoying
03:25 - All this bouncing around may look inefficient, but you actually have so little control that it's unavoidable. You can't influence the ball here like you can Sonic. All you have is the flippers and a random tilt ability. Despite the bouncing this is still a very good bonus stage. Difficulty: Infuriating Luck
03:57 - One of the more difficult shots in the run right here. You have to hit the ferron (not hard), and then immediately on the fall back down, shoot it back up through the open hole. The game doesn't intend for you to go this way (this path opens later after grabbing the first emerald, IIRC). The timing for this is extremely tight; you really only have time to shoot it up with the left flipper without catching it. The ferron will respawn as soon as the previous ferron's bird animal sprite finishes flying away. The result is a whopping ~10 seconds of time saved, as you get to do one of the plug emeralds first, and then immediately grab the center emerald afterwards. Difficulty: Hard
04:28 - It is possible to fire Sonic right back at the plug after being shot out, but the timing is tight and can be influenced on how fast Sonic is going. It's a difficult trick but is always worth trying. You get multiple chances at this on both sides. Difficult: Average
07:37 - This shot isn't actually all that hard, but it's deceiving. The arrows don't really line up with the angle needed to make the shot, and if you miss, you're stuck waiting ~20 seconds. Difficulty: Low
08:08 - The animal cage is INTENSE luck. Only the first hit is even controllable, and even then it's not guaranteed (as you see in this run). It is unbelievably easy to bounce around for 10 seconds in here, only to fall out the bottom right and lose another 10 seconds or more just trying to get back to the animal cage. Falling out the left is basically the second best thing that can happen in here. Difficulty: WTF Hard
09:40 - These bounces are mostly automatic, but they can be random to set up. The more important ones are the ones after the first tube breaks, as the right side tube is more difficult to set up. Although it is technically faster to drop down and go to the other side, it is not worth the risk. Difficulty: Low
10:40 - Falling out on this boss is more common than it should be. Once you're inside all you can do is hold left/right and hope for the best. It's not unusual to shoot in only to be thrown out instantly. It's even worse if it throws you out of the table through the middle, as that's an instant reset. Difficulty: Low
12:00 - Arguably one of the hardest shots to make, only for the fact that you have to make them 4 times consecutively, and then nail the emerald in the middle, without any real visual guides on the table. Missing can be deadly, as the tables in the final level are unforgiving. Mike89 had a good run on this. Difficulty: Hard
12:40 - These outer emeralds are the easiest shots in the game until you're trying to speedrun. Of course, by this point stress really plays a part. Difficulty: EZ.
12:50 - In Sonic Spinball, the flippers are sort of glitched. If you look like you're going to fall through, spam the flippers. As you can see here, most of the time you can pull off a recovery. Difficulty: Luck
14:10 - This boss is infuriating. That switch in the middle to trigger the opening for Robotnik is an extremely tight and hard shot. Missing is extremely dangerous, as any stray bounce can throw you out of the table. Falling out the center is nerve-wracking, as it's not a guaranteed recovery. Sometimes the bombs won't spawn correctly, sometimes you'll be thrown at a wide angle and can't hit them, and bumping the bottom of any bomb will cause you to fall. Hitting the tiny frickin' hitbox on the glass is nearly impossible on Fast for no good reason. Despite the lost time here, it is still a solid run. He is just that much trouble. Difficulty: Hard
Decision: Approved
Reasons:
This is my first verification so excuse my noobishness. After a thorough sitdown of the whole video, I didn't see any quality issues, and of course no cheating. The only thing left for approval was the execution.
As Mike89's comments on the run detail, this game is filled with ridiculous random luck. Even a single missed shot can result in many seconds of lost time if you don't know how to handle the rebounds. Holding down becomes a staple of maintaining any semblance of control with Sonic.
It should be noted that for those not familiar with the game, the current TAS "no emeralds" completion of Toxic Caves is a TAS-only trick. It requires significant frame-perfect control for ~5 seconds straight. For this reason a normal speedrun of Sonic Spinball can't be expected to pull that off.
However, there are many other tricks in this run that were pulled off, with varying levels of time saved. Notable ones include excellent bounces in the Toxic Caves (both the worm loops and the last stage of the boss), the double shot on the ferron at the beginning of Lava Powerhouse, and the rebound shots for the plugs in Lava Powerhouse. Immense amounts of luck was demonstrated in the Animal Cage of The Machine, as well as all the bonus stages.
Despite a heart-breaking loss of time at The Showdown boss, the raw amount of concentrated luck in this run is going to be extremely difficult to reproduce. While there is easily a minute's worth of time that could be saved in this run, it may be many thousands of tries before such a good combination comes again.
For that reason, my decision is to approve this run.
-------------
Here is a full list of noteworthy things to keep an eye out for when watching this speedrun:
00:19 - One of the two bounces over the Worm heads. Believe it or not this alone can save 5 seconds or more, just because of ridiculous bouncing. And it's done twice! Difficulty: Low
00:47 - Nailing that bridge shot first try is pretty hard. Nailing it while the screen is scrolling down for the "swim trip" is much harder. Difficulty: Average
01:17 - Using the flipper to switch the cart around allows you to reuse the left table without travelling through the main table. Difficulty: Zero
02:50 - As mentioned, the most infuriating glitch with this boss is the "tail flip death". Every once in a while, he'll flip his tail to the other side while you're bouncing around inside. Sometimes, when he does so, it kills you. It's probably some weird collision issue, as the boss does not have any traditional ways of killing you at all (even the poison drips simply push you back down, they do not hurt you). Difficulty: Annoying
03:25 - All this bouncing around may look inefficient, but you actually have so little control that it's unavoidable. You can't influence the ball here like you can Sonic. All you have is the flippers and a random tilt ability. Despite the bouncing this is still a very good bonus stage. Difficulty: Infuriating Luck
03:57 - One of the more difficult shots in the run right here. You have to hit the ferron (not hard), and then immediately on the fall back down, shoot it back up through the open hole. The game doesn't intend for you to go this way (this path opens later after grabbing the first emerald, IIRC). The timing for this is extremely tight; you really only have time to shoot it up with the left flipper without catching it. The ferron will respawn as soon as the previous ferron's bird animal sprite finishes flying away. The result is a whopping ~10 seconds of time saved, as you get to do one of the plug emeralds first, and then immediately grab the center emerald afterwards. Difficulty: Hard
04:28 - It is possible to fire Sonic right back at the plug after being shot out, but the timing is tight and can be influenced on how fast Sonic is going. It's a difficult trick but is always worth trying. You get multiple chances at this on both sides. Difficult: Average
07:37 - This shot isn't actually all that hard, but it's deceiving. The arrows don't really line up with the angle needed to make the shot, and if you miss, you're stuck waiting ~20 seconds. Difficulty: Low
08:08 - The animal cage is INTENSE luck. Only the first hit is even controllable, and even then it's not guaranteed (as you see in this run). It is unbelievably easy to bounce around for 10 seconds in here, only to fall out the bottom right and lose another 10 seconds or more just trying to get back to the animal cage. Falling out the left is basically the second best thing that can happen in here. Difficulty: WTF Hard
09:40 - These bounces are mostly automatic, but they can be random to set up. The more important ones are the ones after the first tube breaks, as the right side tube is more difficult to set up. Although it is technically faster to drop down and go to the other side, it is not worth the risk. Difficulty: Low
10:40 - Falling out on this boss is more common than it should be. Once you're inside all you can do is hold left/right and hope for the best. It's not unusual to shoot in only to be thrown out instantly. It's even worse if it throws you out of the table through the middle, as that's an instant reset. Difficulty: Low
12:00 - Arguably one of the hardest shots to make, only for the fact that you have to make them 4 times consecutively, and then nail the emerald in the middle, without any real visual guides on the table. Missing can be deadly, as the tables in the final level are unforgiving. Mike89 had a good run on this. Difficulty: Hard
12:40 - These outer emeralds are the easiest shots in the game until you're trying to speedrun. Of course, by this point stress really plays a part. Difficulty: EZ.
12:50 - In Sonic Spinball, the flippers are sort of glitched. If you look like you're going to fall through, spam the flippers. As you can see here, most of the time you can pull off a recovery. Difficulty: Luck
14:10 - This boss is infuriating. That switch in the middle to trigger the opening for Robotnik is an extremely tight and hard shot. Missing is extremely dangerous, as any stray bounce can throw you out of the table. Falling out the center is nerve-wracking, as it's not a guaranteed recovery. Sometimes the bombs won't spawn correctly, sometimes you'll be thrown at a wide angle and can't hit them, and bumping the bottom of any bomb will cause you to fall. Hitting the tiny frickin' hitbox on the glass is nearly impossible on Fast for no good reason. Despite the lost time here, it is still a solid run. He is just that much trouble. Difficulty: Hard
Quote:
One thing I love about SDA is how many different kinds of Speed Runs we have, however as this is the first time I can recall that we are actually having a Pinball game of all things submitted.
Toxic Caves- the shots done were very accurate, and the section was completed in a very good time. Of course there were a few shots that could have been done better, but that's the joys of pinball, one part skill, one part luck.
Bonus game 1- would it be wrong to say that it was bad luck that the ball stayed in play? Its funny really; the idea of pinball is to keep the ball going, and yet in the bonus games it is better for you to end it fast, and yet the first two balls seem to take their time.
Lava Powerhouse- once again, very accurate shots; it seems that the runner didn't really try since he breezes through this and the boss fight.
Bonus game 2- Nice job wasting your quarters.
The Machine- Alright, here we go! the 3rd stage, and...
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The runner isn't doing anything. Suddenly it seems the runner gets an emerald every 10-20 seconds, truly another very tight well executed run... This stage's boss fight went great at the start, but suddenly near the end, the runner had a bit of complications trying to get in to finish the boss.
Bonus Stage 3- I looked away and it ended. It was that fast.
The Machine- The Runner did a nice job slowly working his way up to Robotnik and making each shot count. Then the runner got got to the boss and fell out of play. This is where the run started to fall apart in my opinion.
First the runner had difficulties trying get into the boss area, and then he fell out of play (but got back in pretty quickly) and then the runner had quite a few of problems trying to hit robotnik.
Overall: The run was good, but then the last boss happened and then stated to make me really question the run. I know the runner went through hell trying to get this completed, but sometimes lady luck really can be a b****. Not to mention that the 3rd boss is still rubbing me the wrong way...
*sigh*
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Did I also mention that a few of my runs were rejected because of bad luck at the end of the run?
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This is probably the hardest game for me to verify (and I watched the Skies verification from start to finish...)
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*reads Verifier 1's Comments*
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Verifier one has good points, the runner had done alot of difficult shots, those of which help saved alot of time...
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Alright, I say ACCEPT... However, I'm saying accept with a 60-40 mindset in mind... As I said earlier, you can have great run, but one or two mistakes can ruin everything, and especially if you are submitting a low time under 30 minute run; you usually need to be flawless from start to finish or else...
Toxic Caves- the shots done were very accurate, and the section was completed in a very good time. Of course there were a few shots that could have been done better, but that's the joys of pinball, one part skill, one part luck.
Bonus game 1- would it be wrong to say that it was bad luck that the ball stayed in play? Its funny really; the idea of pinball is to keep the ball going, and yet in the bonus games it is better for you to end it fast, and yet the first two balls seem to take their time.
Lava Powerhouse- once again, very accurate shots; it seems that the runner didn't really try since he breezes through this and the boss fight.
Bonus game 2- Nice job wasting your quarters.
The Machine- Alright, here we go! the 3rd stage, and...
...
The runner isn't doing anything. Suddenly it seems the runner gets an emerald every 10-20 seconds, truly another very tight well executed run... This stage's boss fight went great at the start, but suddenly near the end, the runner had a bit of complications trying to get in to finish the boss.
Bonus Stage 3- I looked away and it ended. It was that fast.
The Machine- The Runner did a nice job slowly working his way up to Robotnik and making each shot count. Then the runner got got to the boss and fell out of play. This is where the run started to fall apart in my opinion.
First the runner had difficulties trying get into the boss area, and then he fell out of play (but got back in pretty quickly) and then the runner had quite a few of problems trying to hit robotnik.
Overall: The run was good, but then the last boss happened and then stated to make me really question the run. I know the runner went through hell trying to get this completed, but sometimes lady luck really can be a b****. Not to mention that the 3rd boss is still rubbing me the wrong way...
*sigh*
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Did I also mention that a few of my runs were rejected because of bad luck at the end of the run?
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...
...
This is probably the hardest game for me to verify (and I watched the Skies verification from start to finish...)
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*reads Verifier 1's Comments*
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...
Verifier one has good points, the runner had done alot of difficult shots, those of which help saved alot of time...
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Alright, I say ACCEPT... However, I'm saying accept with a 60-40 mindset in mind... As I said earlier, you can have great run, but one or two mistakes can ruin everything, and especially if you are submitting a low time under 30 minute run; you usually need to be flawless from start to finish or else...
Quote:
I remember this game being infuriating as hell when I was younger. I probably still have it boxed up somewhere, but can't be assed to go dig it out along with my Genesis. 
Most shots in the game are annoyingly hard to line up correctly, let alone line up correctly while speedrunning. I remember spending retarded amounts of time trying to finish Final Showdown.
Anyway, verification comments:
No cheating detected.
Audio/Video was extremely good.
Gameplay/Luck was extremely good considering what this game can throw at you.
Toxic Caves:
-Nice worm skips
-Nice job bouncing off the cluck to get the gate open
-I actually used to do the mine cart section just like that.
-Oooh...bad luck on which side you fell down in the worm loop after the first emerald
-Boss fight was very fast. Yes I've seen the video of him dying here.
Overall: Other than the bad luck on the worm loop, the stage went extremely well. A couple missed shots here and there, but nothing major.
Lava Powerhouse:
-Have to mention the ferron shot. The timing...so tight!
-Getting the corks busted fast is hard as fuck. The shot is ridiculously hard to do
-Decent cluck luck
-Ugh, always hated that you'd randomly slide when trying to spindash up ramps
-Cork 2 busted fairly quick too. Making that shot twice is impressive
-(Robolier) Always hated when I killed the bottom head before the rest were dead, since it makes getting the other heads down a chore with that gaping hole at the bottom.
Overall: Same as Toxic Caves, minus worm loop.
The Machine:
-I'm actually one of the people who knew about the icon showing whether the cage is open or not.
-Oh man! Animal Prison Luck!
-SWEET JESUS! ANIMAL PRISON LUCK AGAIN!
-(Veg-O-Machine) That's exactly how I used to do destroy the tubes.
-(Veg-O-Machine) One rounding the inside is purely luck.
Overall: Same as the last two stages.
Final Showdown:
-A lot of the shots in the stage are infuriatingly difficult. I hated this one with a burning passion.
-The shots to get that first emerald open are deceivingly hard.
-That last emerald: Occasionally you won't get enough height from the spindash...for no real reason.
-Damn that skidding!
-(Robotnik) Oh man, falling out sucks hard. So luck based on whether you can use the bombs to get back in.
-(Robotnik) Had a good rythym going, then got that shot that just didn't want to
-(Robotnik) SMELL MY SOCKS!
Overall: Stage was great, Robotnik less so.
Verdict: Accept. Despite the fact that Robotnik gave him a fit, the amount of luck the runner had the rest of the game was astounding. Mix in the difficult shots and I can understand why the runner wouldn't want to restart over what happened at the final boss.
Most shots in the game are annoyingly hard to line up correctly, let alone line up correctly while speedrunning. I remember spending retarded amounts of time trying to finish Final Showdown.
Anyway, verification comments:
No cheating detected.
Audio/Video was extremely good.
Gameplay/Luck was extremely good considering what this game can throw at you.
Toxic Caves:
-Nice worm skips
-Nice job bouncing off the cluck to get the gate open
-I actually used to do the mine cart section just like that.
-Oooh...bad luck on which side you fell down in the worm loop after the first emerald
-Boss fight was very fast. Yes I've seen the video of him dying here.
Overall: Other than the bad luck on the worm loop, the stage went extremely well. A couple missed shots here and there, but nothing major.
Lava Powerhouse:
-Have to mention the ferron shot. The timing...so tight!
-Getting the corks busted fast is hard as fuck. The shot is ridiculously hard to do
-Decent cluck luck
-Ugh, always hated that you'd randomly slide when trying to spindash up ramps
-Cork 2 busted fairly quick too. Making that shot twice is impressive
-(Robolier) Always hated when I killed the bottom head before the rest were dead, since it makes getting the other heads down a chore with that gaping hole at the bottom.
Overall: Same as Toxic Caves, minus worm loop.
The Machine:
-I'm actually one of the people who knew about the icon showing whether the cage is open or not.
-Oh man! Animal Prison Luck!
-SWEET JESUS! ANIMAL PRISON LUCK AGAIN!
-(Veg-O-Machine) That's exactly how I used to do destroy the tubes.
-(Veg-O-Machine) One rounding the inside is purely luck.
Overall: Same as the last two stages.
Final Showdown:
-A lot of the shots in the stage are infuriatingly difficult. I hated this one with a burning passion.
-The shots to get that first emerald open are deceivingly hard.
-That last emerald: Occasionally you won't get enough height from the spindash...for no real reason.
-Damn that skidding!
-(Robotnik) Oh man, falling out sucks hard. So luck based on whether you can use the bombs to get back in.
-(Robotnik) Had a good rythym going, then got that shot that just didn't want to
-(Robotnik) SMELL MY SOCKS!
Overall: Stage was great, Robotnik less so.
Verdict: Accept. Despite the fact that Robotnik gave him a fit, the amount of luck the runner had the rest of the game was astounding. Mix in the difficult shots and I can understand why the runner wouldn't want to restart over what happened at the final boss.
Quote:
The other verifiers did a great job of going over all the good and bad points, as well as the runner himself, so I will just say that I accept this run. I played this game to death when I was a child, so I can say from experience how infuriating it can be to get the game to do what you want it to do. This really is one of the harder games on the Genesis, so kudos to the runner. The way I see it, the bullshit at the final boss is simply the line between "really good run" and "OMGWTFO_O run".
Decision: Accept
Congratulations to Mike 'mike89' McKenzie!
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