My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SonicAdvance.html
Joaquin 'Zeupar' Salido's Knuckles run
Verifier Responses
There was a big back and forth between the third verifier and the runner, but long story short, the third verifier didn't have a problem with the run being accepted.
Decision: Accept
Reason: It's a good run to go alongside the Sonic run.
Joaquin 'Zeupar' Salido's Knuckles run
Verifier Responses
Quote:
quite an entertaining little video we have here. SCROLLING GLITCH! sonic advance joins the club
aside from that damn penguin and a rather unforgiving wall, this thing moved along at a pretty steady clip. that last boss in x zone was unsettling but given how awful it is in general, the patern used to take it out is understandable
id go ahead and post it on up. kinda makes me want to see a tails and an amy run now
aside from that damn penguin and a rather unforgiving wall, this thing moved along at a pretty steady clip. that last boss in x zone was unsettling but given how awful it is in general, the patern used to take it out is understandable
id go ahead and post it on up. kinda makes me want to see a tails and an amy run now
Quote:
Okay, down to business. Later than I planned but it's fast enough!
First off? Video and audio quality are looking good. Looked pretty thoroughly for any sort of cheating and I can't find any. Clearly gliding through the walls in one of the levels isn't cheating. But seriously, no cheating that I can see at all.
The runner clearly shows an understanding of the tricks one can use ingame (Plenty of punching the air that actually benefits speed. And signposts. Lots of signpost punching. Knuckles hates signposts!)
As for the levels themselves?
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Neo Green Hill Zone:
* Act 1 - Not much to say here. The first 14 seconds of the run looked fairly solid (Which is something that I'd definitely want to see at the start of a run). The second 14 seconds... were just spent in the air! Wouldn't really call that a glitch though, more like exploiting the fact that there's a lot of open air up there, but I digress.
* Act 2 - Fairly solid here too, mostly. At 24 seconds in, I'm pretty sure that jump could have been on a downward slope and still make it over the spring, thus maintaining a fair bit of speed, but I don't really know the chances to make that. What with everything over there being hidden at all. Loses... oh, not too big an amount of time, considering spindashing pretty much comes close to matching the speed anyhow. Boss fight went fairly well, didn't lose much time at all.
Secret Base Zone:
* Act 1 - Man, why couldn't they have more of that spotlight area? Anyhow...
* Both Acts - pretty solid run here, even the most minor of things aren't really worth mentioning.
Casino Paradise Zone (More like Casino Nightmare Zone if you ask me):
* Act 1 - A slightly cumbersome run, but to be fair, this is a very cumbersome place.
* Act 2 - Actually, this has some pretty good execution. The boss itself? It's okay, but considering the luck required to get something perfect, five passes is acceptable enough. Not to mention it's almost halfway through the run. Plus the saving grace of the last three hits was pretty cool. Also oh hey, Knuckles looking up in tune to the music!
Ice Mountain Zone:
* Act 1 - That messed up spindash at the slope? The complete halt after landing? Man, what a time for bad luck to kick in. Other than that, pretty good. Too bad this went awry when this level was the example/teaser posted on the runner's topic.
Also, apparently there's an double-counted ring in the loop where the speed shoes are. Even checked my game to make sure. It's pretty kooky. So if you're one of those weirdos who checks ring counts, that's something to note.
* Act 2 - Better than Act 1, the whole zone is still a pretty decent run. A few slight mistakes on the boss, cost a few seconds due to how annoying it is to get back up to swim along the top of the water with Knuckles.
Angel Island Zone:
* Act 1 - I feel the runner here spent a bit too much time trying to avoid death by collision (Though to be fair having nothing to fall on kinda forces that mentality at times). And seeing as it's not mentioned in the runner's comments, It'd probably help to clear up confusion by stating the loop glitch can only be fixed by going through a loop. ANY loop, such as, say, the one near the end of the level.
But yeah, a bit too cautious, lost a few seconds when the runner could have flown a more direct path. Still, could be much worse. And the part after ending the glitch was fairly good.
* Act 2 - Pretty good run, not counting the very minor snag points. Boss battle looked pretty good.
Egg Rocket Zone (If you want, call it act 1):
- Time: 0:12:30 + 0:35:18 + 1:13:18 + 0:55:70
Okay, this, I believe, is probably the worst part of the run. It has its good points, but in the long run and overall flow of things it's kinda... sloppy. Though it's a long stage and a late run so... Let's see what details I can go into here...
* General Info - Starting with some good news. Both the beginning major shortcut and the second ridiculous platform shortcut (after the part where Knuckles is running uphill with loads of boosters) have been made, so that pretty much makes up for a fair bit of lost time.
* Section 1 (After entering the rocket) - Now I know the edge glide fail-to-grab setup is a pain that's rare, but still, that was a good eight seconds lost there. Other than that it went fairly smoothly.
* Section 2 (After section 1 breaks away from the rocket) - This is where the bulk of the run's major mistakes take place. Let's see here... Aside from the obvious accidental glide mispoint, there's taking a slower route just after that, landing on spikes, a clunky ascent after the half circle where the spring was missed, running into MORE spikes... and I guess that's it. With that said, while that doesn't seem to aesthetically pleasing, it's nowhere near as bad as, say, dying or losing loads of time on a missed path. So I can't say it's outright atrocious or anything. And really that's only a bit less than half of the section so when it comes down to it? It doesn't kill the run.
* Section 3 (We're not in Kansas anymore. Or Earth.) - Actually the final stretch was pretty good. Bravo for a much-deserved strong finish.
Cosmic Angel Zone (If you want, call it act 2):
The level execution was pretty fast and flowful. The boss? Not so much. Said boss is an annoyance though and was done without lingering for too long.
X-Zone:
See? This is what happens when you don't properly maintain your refurbished death machines. The Sonic 1 wrecking ball and Sonic 2 drill tank go down quite quickly.
And then there's the final boss... This boss sucks. It has sucked, it will suck, and it shall forever suck. The runner's execution? I'd really like to say maybe more strategic damage taking but considering how long an attack can be withheld and how random the wait is? I can't really say much in terms of improvement save "get a bit luckier". At least the hand came up early enough to gain a much needed three hits at once.
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So overall, what would my verdict be here? I seemed to have rambled on a bit about nitpicky details for the most part (Especially on the first half, which was presented in a well-done manner) when there's plenty of positive in this run, but considering the overall quality of the run, method, flow, and all that stuff I'd say...
I'll accept. For a full game speedrun I'd say it's actually quite consistent, and it certainly was an enjoyable watch. And with stuff like Sonic, you know you need a fair bit of knowhow, judgment, and reaction time to even get something of this caliber. Though I would love to see an improved take on this all the same, with better Ice Mountain Act 1/Angel Island Act 1/Egg Rocket. And probably X-Zone but really that boss sucks anyhow. For another time, perhaps.
First off? Video and audio quality are looking good. Looked pretty thoroughly for any sort of cheating and I can't find any. Clearly gliding through the walls in one of the levels isn't cheating. But seriously, no cheating that I can see at all.
The runner clearly shows an understanding of the tricks one can use ingame (Plenty of punching the air that actually benefits speed. And signposts. Lots of signpost punching. Knuckles hates signposts!)
As for the levels themselves?
--------
Neo Green Hill Zone:
* Act 1 - Not much to say here. The first 14 seconds of the run looked fairly solid (Which is something that I'd definitely want to see at the start of a run). The second 14 seconds... were just spent in the air! Wouldn't really call that a glitch though, more like exploiting the fact that there's a lot of open air up there, but I digress.
* Act 2 - Fairly solid here too, mostly. At 24 seconds in, I'm pretty sure that jump could have been on a downward slope and still make it over the spring, thus maintaining a fair bit of speed, but I don't really know the chances to make that. What with everything over there being hidden at all. Loses... oh, not too big an amount of time, considering spindashing pretty much comes close to matching the speed anyhow. Boss fight went fairly well, didn't lose much time at all.
Secret Base Zone:
* Act 1 - Man, why couldn't they have more of that spotlight area? Anyhow...
* Both Acts - pretty solid run here, even the most minor of things aren't really worth mentioning.
Casino Paradise Zone (More like Casino Nightmare Zone if you ask me):
* Act 1 - A slightly cumbersome run, but to be fair, this is a very cumbersome place.
* Act 2 - Actually, this has some pretty good execution. The boss itself? It's okay, but considering the luck required to get something perfect, five passes is acceptable enough. Not to mention it's almost halfway through the run. Plus the saving grace of the last three hits was pretty cool. Also oh hey, Knuckles looking up in tune to the music!
Ice Mountain Zone:
* Act 1 - That messed up spindash at the slope? The complete halt after landing? Man, what a time for bad luck to kick in. Other than that, pretty good. Too bad this went awry when this level was the example/teaser posted on the runner's topic.
Also, apparently there's an double-counted ring in the loop where the speed shoes are. Even checked my game to make sure. It's pretty kooky. So if you're one of those weirdos who checks ring counts, that's something to note.
* Act 2 - Better than Act 1, the whole zone is still a pretty decent run. A few slight mistakes on the boss, cost a few seconds due to how annoying it is to get back up to swim along the top of the water with Knuckles.
Angel Island Zone:
* Act 1 - I feel the runner here spent a bit too much time trying to avoid death by collision (Though to be fair having nothing to fall on kinda forces that mentality at times). And seeing as it's not mentioned in the runner's comments, It'd probably help to clear up confusion by stating the loop glitch can only be fixed by going through a loop. ANY loop, such as, say, the one near the end of the level.
But yeah, a bit too cautious, lost a few seconds when the runner could have flown a more direct path. Still, could be much worse. And the part after ending the glitch was fairly good.
* Act 2 - Pretty good run, not counting the very minor snag points. Boss battle looked pretty good.
Egg Rocket Zone (If you want, call it act 1):
- Time: 0:12:30 + 0:35:18 + 1:13:18 + 0:55:70
Okay, this, I believe, is probably the worst part of the run. It has its good points, but in the long run and overall flow of things it's kinda... sloppy. Though it's a long stage and a late run so... Let's see what details I can go into here...
* General Info - Starting with some good news. Both the beginning major shortcut and the second ridiculous platform shortcut (after the part where Knuckles is running uphill with loads of boosters) have been made, so that pretty much makes up for a fair bit of lost time.
* Section 1 (After entering the rocket) - Now I know the edge glide fail-to-grab setup is a pain that's rare, but still, that was a good eight seconds lost there. Other than that it went fairly smoothly.
* Section 2 (After section 1 breaks away from the rocket) - This is where the bulk of the run's major mistakes take place. Let's see here... Aside from the obvious accidental glide mispoint, there's taking a slower route just after that, landing on spikes, a clunky ascent after the half circle where the spring was missed, running into MORE spikes... and I guess that's it. With that said, while that doesn't seem to aesthetically pleasing, it's nowhere near as bad as, say, dying or losing loads of time on a missed path. So I can't say it's outright atrocious or anything. And really that's only a bit less than half of the section so when it comes down to it? It doesn't kill the run.
* Section 3 (We're not in Kansas anymore. Or Earth.) - Actually the final stretch was pretty good. Bravo for a much-deserved strong finish.
Cosmic Angel Zone (If you want, call it act 2):
The level execution was pretty fast and flowful. The boss? Not so much. Said boss is an annoyance though and was done without lingering for too long.
X-Zone:
See? This is what happens when you don't properly maintain your refurbished death machines. The Sonic 1 wrecking ball and Sonic 2 drill tank go down quite quickly.
And then there's the final boss... This boss sucks. It has sucked, it will suck, and it shall forever suck. The runner's execution? I'd really like to say maybe more strategic damage taking but considering how long an attack can be withheld and how random the wait is? I can't really say much in terms of improvement save "get a bit luckier". At least the hand came up early enough to gain a much needed three hits at once.
--------
So overall, what would my verdict be here? I seemed to have rambled on a bit about nitpicky details for the most part (Especially on the first half, which was presented in a well-done manner) when there's plenty of positive in this run, but considering the overall quality of the run, method, flow, and all that stuff I'd say...
I'll accept. For a full game speedrun I'd say it's actually quite consistent, and it certainly was an enjoyable watch. And with stuff like Sonic, you know you need a fair bit of knowhow, judgment, and reaction time to even get something of this caliber. Though I would love to see an improved take on this all the same, with better Ice Mountain Act 1/Angel Island Act 1/Egg Rocket. And probably X-Zone but really that boss sucks anyhow. For another time, perhaps.
Quote:
I'm gonna keep this pretty brief.
A/V: No worries here.
Cheating: N/A (I'll explain Angel Island 1 in a minute)
First two zones were executed really well. The first level I had concerns with was Casino Paradise 1, mostly the part from 22 to 29 seconds where it looks like the runner is winging it rather than executing a planned route. Casino Paradise 2 wasn't bad, boss went alright under the circumstances (he pops out of a random tube every time, but I think there's only a few patterns that the boss/fake boss can have).
Ice Mountain 1 was... unlucky I guess. But at 15 seconds, would you be better off ramp jumping to the speed shoes rather than going all the way around? Or does the enemy on the wall make that too difficult?
I wasn't too happy with Ice Mountain 2, though I don't know how hard the trick to stay up top at the boss is. If you can line yourself up with something in the background then that might make it easier.
Angel Island 1 needs some explanation. Basically loops have these items called path-switchers, which allow the loop to actually work. If you didn't have a path switcher at the start you'd just run straight into the wall, and without one in the middle of the loop you'd run around in a circle forever. What the runner does here is trigger the first of these path switchers, and ducks, removing the second one in the middle of the loop from the screen. This tricks the game's collision detection into thinking it's in a different collision plane, one that only applies to the inside (and immediate surrounds) of a loop. Nothing else in the level is solid any more! This also explains why he lands near the loop at the end, since going through a loop normally returns the collision detection to normal.
Angel Island 2 is really solid, with a couple of nice tricks.
Egg Rocket could have been much better. The missed glide at the start notwithstanding (that was pretty unlucky), the runner takes a slightly slower path (onto a spring through a tube instead of landing straight on the speed booster below), then is quite slow in setting up the superglide off the invincibility (gliding over to stand on top of the box and then supergliding would be much faster), missed a simple jump onto a spring... and then got hit by spikes just as invincibility ran out. Kudos for the tricky barrel jump in the last section though!
And the runner makes the last shortcut much harder for himself by rolling through. If you run instead of rolling you have full control over the angle you jump at, which means you'll never run into the spikes.
Cosmic Angel 2... well, the boss was even worse than NintenDan's, which is saying a fair bit. He goes by much faster if you flip him over from in front of him, rather than behind.
X-Zone - there's nothing you can do about that last boss, he just sucks. Having said that, my strategy would be to play for the best case scenario (which is the hand first up, after 7 changes, or 2 and a third revolutions) and if that doesn't come up, the ring always drops to the left so you're safe in taking the hit.
I'm going to be slightly controversial and reject this. Now before you all cry "TOMPA!" and call me a hypocrite, here's my reasoning:
* There is another Sonic Advance run on the site, and while it was done many years ago I believe it to be of slightly better quality than this run (despite having the same issue at the end, which is the biggest time sink in both runs)
* The runner completed the run in two days. Normally this sort of thing doesn't factor into my reasoning (I know I've done runs in two days before!) but there's just enough to bug me that not everything was ingrained into memory like it needs to be for a Sonic run. I'm particularly looking at Casino Paradise 1 with this point.
* Finally, the runner is one of the best exponents of this game at The Sonic Center, and I know him to be capable of much better than this.
A/V: No worries here.
Cheating: N/A (I'll explain Angel Island 1 in a minute)
First two zones were executed really well. The first level I had concerns with was Casino Paradise 1, mostly the part from 22 to 29 seconds where it looks like the runner is winging it rather than executing a planned route. Casino Paradise 2 wasn't bad, boss went alright under the circumstances (he pops out of a random tube every time, but I think there's only a few patterns that the boss/fake boss can have).
Ice Mountain 1 was... unlucky I guess. But at 15 seconds, would you be better off ramp jumping to the speed shoes rather than going all the way around? Or does the enemy on the wall make that too difficult?
I wasn't too happy with Ice Mountain 2, though I don't know how hard the trick to stay up top at the boss is. If you can line yourself up with something in the background then that might make it easier.
Angel Island 1 needs some explanation. Basically loops have these items called path-switchers, which allow the loop to actually work. If you didn't have a path switcher at the start you'd just run straight into the wall, and without one in the middle of the loop you'd run around in a circle forever. What the runner does here is trigger the first of these path switchers, and ducks, removing the second one in the middle of the loop from the screen. This tricks the game's collision detection into thinking it's in a different collision plane, one that only applies to the inside (and immediate surrounds) of a loop. Nothing else in the level is solid any more! This also explains why he lands near the loop at the end, since going through a loop normally returns the collision detection to normal.
Angel Island 2 is really solid, with a couple of nice tricks.
Egg Rocket could have been much better. The missed glide at the start notwithstanding (that was pretty unlucky), the runner takes a slightly slower path (onto a spring through a tube instead of landing straight on the speed booster below), then is quite slow in setting up the superglide off the invincibility (gliding over to stand on top of the box and then supergliding would be much faster), missed a simple jump onto a spring... and then got hit by spikes just as invincibility ran out. Kudos for the tricky barrel jump in the last section though!
And the runner makes the last shortcut much harder for himself by rolling through. If you run instead of rolling you have full control over the angle you jump at, which means you'll never run into the spikes.
Cosmic Angel 2... well, the boss was even worse than NintenDan's, which is saying a fair bit. He goes by much faster if you flip him over from in front of him, rather than behind.
X-Zone - there's nothing you can do about that last boss, he just sucks. Having said that, my strategy would be to play for the best case scenario (which is the hand first up, after 7 changes, or 2 and a third revolutions) and if that doesn't come up, the ring always drops to the left so you're safe in taking the hit.
I'm going to be slightly controversial and reject this. Now before you all cry "TOMPA!" and call me a hypocrite, here's my reasoning:
* There is another Sonic Advance run on the site, and while it was done many years ago I believe it to be of slightly better quality than this run (despite having the same issue at the end, which is the biggest time sink in both runs)
* The runner completed the run in two days. Normally this sort of thing doesn't factor into my reasoning (I know I've done runs in two days before!) but there's just enough to bug me that not everything was ingrained into memory like it needs to be for a Sonic run. I'm particularly looking at Casino Paradise 1 with this point.
* Finally, the runner is one of the best exponents of this game at The Sonic Center, and I know him to be capable of much better than this.
There was a big back and forth between the third verifier and the runner, but long story short, the third verifier didn't have a problem with the run being accepted.
Decision: Accept
Reason: It's a good run to go alongside the Sonic run.
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