Silent Storm - April 26, 2016

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2016-04-26 11:41:40 am

2016-03-29 03:25:39 pm

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Silent Storm () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Normal] [Axis Campaign]

Decision: Reject

Reason: Bad luck near the end resulted in three restarts and several minutes lost.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/1846/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2016-03-29 03:25:40 pm

Run Information

Silent Storm () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Normal] [Axis Campaign]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/silentstormaxis-v_IQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

Soliduz Znake

Edit history:

Soliduz Znake: 2016-04-02 05:10:44 am

Soliduz Znake: 2016-04-02 05:09:49 am

2016-04-01 10:36:59 am

this is like Xcom where enemies can't aim well in blank range Shocked

. interesting will definately give this one look.
edit:
A/V: looksei goodie
cheating: the Italian stereotype voice acting is a cheat......I mean none
over all great run beside the death and boss fight at the end; she came out of nowhere! what cheap move by the game (39:11). there seem to be RNG elements in enemy movements so far looks acceptable for this the run. the laser spawn RNG looks a bit unfavorable so could be better but also could be worst, so I leave it to other verifiers to decide on this. also the RNG item location spawning seems not that much of hard to find. poor Zail always keeps sacrificing his self for the missions.
this run is an Accept.

nothing says stealth louder than using stick grenades in infiltration missions. talk about the cheesy one liners. saying "I am a student of war" repeatedly yet Zail keeps getting killed over many times makes him sound not very bright for the job XD. "they will not know what has happened until it is too late" spoken like a true speedrunner.

this is like Xcom where enemies can't aim well in blank range :o . interesting will definately give this one look.
edit: 
A/V: looksei goodie 
cheating: the Italian stereotype voice acting is a cheat......I mean none
over all great run beside the death and boss fight at the end; she came out of nowhere! what cheap move by the game (39:11). there seem to be RNG elements in enemy movements so far looks acceptable for this the run. the laser spawn RNG looks a bit unfavorable so could be better but also could be worst, so I leave it to other verifiers to decide on this. also the RNG item location spawning seems not that much of hard to find. poor Zail always keeps sacrificing his self for the missions. 
this run is an [b]Accept[/b].

nothing says stealth louder than using stick grenades in infiltration missions. talk about the cheesy one liners. saying "I am a student of war" repeatedly yet Zail keeps getting killed over many times makes him sound not very bright for the job XD. "they will not know what has happened until it is too late" spoken like a true speedrunner.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2016-04-12 12:34:15 pm

LotBlind: 2016-04-12 12:31:55 pm

2016-04-12 11:15:15 am

The game is full of little interruptions that are sometimes difficult to discern the cause of. Sometimes it's clearly waiting for the enemy turn to finish, but sometimes not. I wonder why the runner has to give so many move commands piecewise. I think it stops whenever the character spots another enemy... I wonder if there isn't a setting to turn that off? Some games do, why I'm asking.

Not the snappiest use of the mouse I've ever seen but sufficient.

27:30 what happened so you had to leave Switzerland before getting the gun you wanted?

This is single segment with resets because of the death. Thus the runner should also have used any and all save/load tricks that could save more time. However, I can't really see any immediate benefits to be drawn from that.

I may have been a little bit inattentive/disoriented but it looked like sometimes the runner was adding skill points as an after thought instead of pre-planned, but there's a chance those points had only been awarded on that turn.

The deaths near the end: is two retries some kind of average for the second to last fight?

Maybe we'll wait for runner's input here...

The game is full of little interruptions that are sometimes difficult to discern the cause of. Sometimes it's clearly waiting for the enemy turn to finish, but sometimes not. I wonder why the runner has to give so many move commands piecewise. I think it stops whenever the character spots another enemy... I wonder if there isn't a setting to turn that off? Some games do, why I'm asking.

Not the snappiest use of the mouse I've ever seen but sufficient.

27:30 what happened so you had to leave Switzerland before getting the gun you wanted?

This is single segment with resets because of the death. Thus the runner should also have used any and all save/load tricks that could save more time. However, I can't really see any immediate benefits to be drawn from that.

I may have been a little bit inattentive/disoriented but it looked like sometimes the runner was adding skill points as an after thought instead of pre-planned, but there's a chance those points had only been awarded on that turn.

The deaths near the end: is two retries some kind of average for the second to last fight?

Maybe we'll wait for runner's input here...

ktwo

2016-04-12 02:57:30 pm

LotBlind, I've contacted the runner about your questions.

Sixtoo

2016-04-17 02:20:14 pm

Quote from Soliduz Znake:

this is like Xcom where enemies can't aim well in blank range Shocked

. interesting will definately give this one look.
edit:
A/V: looksei goodie
cheating: the Italian stereotype voice acting is a cheat......I mean none
over all great run beside the death and boss fight at the end; she came out of nowhere! what cheap move by the game (39:11). there seem to be RNG elements in enemy movements so far looks acceptable for this the run. the laser spawn RNG looks a bit unfavorable so could be better but also could be worst, so I leave it to other verifiers to decide on this. also the RNG item location spawning seems not that much of hard to find. poor Zail always keeps sacrificing his self for the missions.
this run is an Accept.

nothing says stealth louder than using stick grenades in infiltration missions. talk about the cheesy one liners. saying "I am a student of war" repeatedly yet Zail keeps getting killed over many times makes him sound not very bright for the job XD. "they will not know what has happened until it is too late" spoken like a true speedrunner.

@Soliduz Znake: The voice acting is pretty bad lol I'll give you that. If you mean the RNG item spawing, as in where the clues spawn in each level, I got the best one at 15:04. If you don't find it there or in the next office your run is probably rip. Keep in mind that the clue you need for the best route isn't even guarenteed to show up. Some time save could be possible for the boss fight, in Berger's factory its not too hard to kill Berger and take his PK which could help you. I just go for the easier objective which is climb up the ladder and take the plans because of the consistency that late in the game, and the alien-laser-gun makes the fight easy enough.

Quote from LotBlind:

The game is full of little interruptions that are sometimes difficult to discern the cause of. Sometimes it's clearly waiting for the enemy turn to finish, but sometimes not. I wonder why the runner has to give so many move commands piecewise. I think it stops whenever the character spots another enemy... I wonder if there isn't a setting to turn that off? Some games do, why I'm asking.

Not the snappiest use of the mouse I've ever seen but sufficient.

27:30 what happened so you had to leave Switzerland before getting the gun you wanted?

This is single segment with resets because of the death. Thus the runner should also have used any and all save/load tricks that could save more time. However, I can't really see any immediate benefits to be drawn from that.

I may have been a little bit inattentive/disoriented but it looked like sometimes the runner was adding skill points as an after thought instead of pre-planned, but there's a chance those points had only been awarded on that turn.

The deaths near the end: is two retries some kind of average for the second to last fight?

Maybe we'll wait for runner's input here...

@LotBlind: Some interruptions can come from a bit of the environment being destroyed, the game first has to calculate possible paths before you can go again. Also (and this really bugs me) you have to wait for physics objects, like dropped items, to stop moving before you can move again.

Yes I do spam the movement command because your character will usually stop if he spots an enemy. This just gave me an idea... shoot your character in the head to give him blindness before running through the enemy lines lmao. I don't think this could really be a strat, but I'm honestly going to give it a try when I do an Allies run haha.

My reason for leaving switzerland early was purely superstition, you know when something isn't working on your computer you restart it and try it again? Same thing there. I just wanted to reset the area in case it hit some kind of snag.

The only skill that I know is vital for my route is Faster Pose Change by the time I get to 23:40 (going to crouch would normally take 4 AP instead of 3 AP). If they looked like they were being added as an after thought it was probably just because I was considering how I could benefit my immediate situation while allowing myself to get Faster Pose Change.

As for the boss fight I would accept the two retries just because of how random the clues can be. I got the best clue spawns, so that basically makes up for the retries.

If you've got more questions please ask them. By the way, do you guys actually play through the game to assist with the verifying?

[quote="Soliduz Znake"]this is like Xcom where enemies can't aim well in blank range :o . interesting will definately give this one look.
edit: 
A/V: looksei goodie 
cheating: the Italian stereotype voice acting is a cheat......I mean none
over all great run beside the death and boss fight at the end; she came out of nowhere! what cheap move by the game (39:11). there seem to be RNG elements in enemy movements so far looks acceptable for this the run. the laser spawn RNG looks a bit unfavorable so could be better but also could be worst, so I leave it to other verifiers to decide on this. also the RNG item location spawning seems not that much of hard to find. poor Zail always keeps sacrificing his self for the missions. 
this run is an [b]Accept[/b].

nothing says stealth louder than using stick grenades in infiltration missions. talk about the cheesy one liners. saying "I am a student of war" repeatedly yet Zail keeps getting killed over many times makes him sound not very bright for the job XD. "they will not know what has happened until it is too late" spoken like a true speedrunner.[/quote]

@Soliduz Znake: The voice acting is pretty bad lol I'll give you that. If you mean the RNG item spawing, as in where the clues spawn in each level, I got the best one at 15:04. If you don't find it there or in the next office your run is probably rip. Keep in mind that the clue you need for the best route isn't even guarenteed to show up. Some time save could be possible for the boss fight, in Berger's factory its not too hard to kill Berger and take his PK which could help you. I just go for the easier objective which is climb up the ladder and take the plans because of the consistency that late in the game, and the alien-laser-gun makes the fight easy enough.

[quote="LotBlind"]The game is full of little interruptions that are sometimes difficult to discern the cause of. Sometimes it's clearly waiting for the enemy turn to finish, but sometimes not. I wonder why the runner has to give so many move commands piecewise. I think it stops whenever the character spots another enemy... I wonder if there isn't a setting to turn that off? Some games do, why I'm asking.

Not the snappiest use of the mouse I've ever seen but sufficient.

27:30 what happened so you had to leave Switzerland before getting the gun you wanted?

This is single segment with resets because of the death. Thus the runner should also have used any and all save/load tricks that could save more time. However, I can't really see any immediate benefits to be drawn from that.

I may have been a little bit inattentive/disoriented but it looked like sometimes the runner was adding skill points as an after thought instead of pre-planned, but there's a chance those points had only been awarded on that turn.

The deaths near the end: is two retries some kind of average for the second to last fight?

Maybe we'll wait for runner's input here...[/quote]

@LotBlind: Some interruptions can come from a bit of the environment being destroyed, the game first has to calculate possible paths before you can go again. Also (and this really bugs me) you have to wait for physics objects, like dropped items, to stop moving before you can move again.

Yes I do spam the movement command because your character will usually stop if he spots an enemy. This just gave me an idea... shoot your character in the head to give him blindness before running through the enemy lines lmao. I don't think this could really be a strat, but I'm honestly going to give it a try when I do an Allies run haha.

My reason for leaving switzerland early was purely superstition, you know when something isn't working on your computer you restart it and try it again? Same thing there. I just wanted to reset the area in case it hit some kind of snag.

The only skill that I know is vital for my route is Faster Pose Change by the time I get to 23:40 (going to crouch would normally take 4 AP instead of 3 AP). If they looked like they were being added as an after thought it was probably just because I was considering how I could benefit my immediate situation while allowing myself to get Faster Pose Change.

As for the boss fight I would accept the two retries just because of how random the clues can be. I got the best clue spawns, so that basically makes up for the retries.

If you've got more questions please ask them. By the way, do you guys actually play through the game to assist with the verifying?

ktwo

2016-04-18 10:32:01 am

I noted down the following while watching:
* Good luck finding the note in the first part of the house around 15:30. Not sure how much time that saved though.
* Seemed like some fumbling around in the menu around 16 min by selecting the wrong character. Minor mistake though.
* According to the run notes, the document location could have been worse, but not a big deal time-wise?
* A fairly big menu mistake at around 19 min by fumbling with the character selections.
* Took 80 seconds to get the random encounter in Switzerland. According to the gamefaqs walkthrough, "it can take 5 minutes". So sounds like a bit better than average.
* 6,5 minutes lost from two deaths on the first form of the final boss.
* 30 seconds lost from a death on the second form of the final boss.

While I haven't played this game (my knowledge basically comes from watching this run, reading the run comments (which are completely wrong, by the way) and a walkthrough on gamefaqs), I have a hard time seeing how 7 minutes (which is pretty much an eternity in a 40 minute speedrun) lost on the last boss can be justified for an SDA-submission of this type and length. Even though some things seem to have gone better than average early in the game, I don't really see how it went so exceptionally well that it could make up for such a huge time loss.

I would love to be corrected by a more detailed explanation of the early game (how much time it saved and roughly the chances of the different favorable events occuring) that the mishaps near the end would somehow appear as minor in comparison. Until then I will unfortunately have to say that I don't see this as quite ready for SDA yet.

I noted down the following while watching:
* Good luck finding the note in the first part of the house around 15:30. Not sure how much time that saved though.
* Seemed like some fumbling around in the menu around 16 min by selecting the wrong character. Minor mistake though.
* According to the run notes, the document location could have been worse, but not a big deal time-wise?
* A fairly big menu mistake at around 19 min by fumbling with the character selections.
* Took 80 seconds to get the random encounter in Switzerland. According to the gamefaqs walkthrough, "it can take 5 minutes". So sounds like a bit better than average.
* 6,5 minutes lost from two deaths on the first form of the final boss.
* 30 seconds lost from a death on the second form of the final boss.

While I haven't played this game (my knowledge basically comes from watching this run, reading the run comments (which are completely wrong, by the way) and a walkthrough on gamefaqs), I have a hard time seeing how 7 minutes (which is pretty much an eternity in a 40 minute speedrun) lost on the last boss can be justified for an SDA-submission of this type and length. Even though some things seem to have gone better than average early in the game, I don't really see how it went so exceptionally well that it could make up for such a huge time loss.

I would love to be corrected by a more detailed explanation of the early game (how much time it saved and roughly the chances of  the different favorable events occuring) that the mishaps near the end would somehow appear as minor in comparison. Until then I will unfortunately have to say that I don't see this as quite ready for SDA yet.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2016-04-18 11:08:00 am

LotBlind: 2016-04-18 11:06:42 am

2016-04-18 11:06:08 am

Leaving Switzerland: sounds a bit funny, but if you knew the game to do that kind of thing sometimes understandable. Still superstition isn't really a good starting point.

Skills: okay so there's an element of improvisation then. That's fine.

The retries: didn't look like something you were doing wrong so should also be fine.

The only times I've played a game to help verify it is if I either already kinda knew it and could get it for free to refresh my memory, or if it's some short Java game to test the movement or something. Otherwise that's far beyond the call of duty here in public verifications.

Hmm... ktwo's words make me think: how much slower would the run be if you had first-shot the bosses but had gotten much worse luck on the clues? Can we get some numbers on everything you did (and I really wanted to hear about this in general): could you give us a table that shows your best approximations for the probabilities you've had for success with various sub-objectives? In the order in which they appear in the run. And compared to optimal everything, what's the time loss for every other alternative? This would really help to assess the RNG in this run.

ktwo: you didn't explain why the run comments are wrong? I see it says "one restart, one load" which admittedly is incorrect.

Leaving Switzerland: sounds a bit funny, but if you knew the game to do that kind of thing sometimes understandable. Still superstition isn't really a good starting point.

Skills: okay so there's an element of improvisation then. That's fine.

The retries: didn't look like something you were doing wrong so should also be fine.

The only times I've played a game to help verify it is if I either already kinda knew it and could get it for free to refresh my memory, or if it's some short Java game to test the movement or something. Otherwise that's far beyond the call of duty here in public verifications.

Hmm... ktwo's words make me think: how much slower would the run be if you had first-shot the bosses but had gotten much worse luck on the clues? Can we get some numbers on everything you did (and I really wanted to hear about this in general): could you give us a table that shows your best approximations for the probabilities you've had for success with various sub-objectives? In the order in which they appear in the run. And compared to optimal everything, what's the time loss for every other alternative? This would really help to assess the RNG in this run.

ktwo: you didn't explain why the run comments are wrong? I see it says "one restart, one load" which admittedly is incorrect.

ktwo

2016-04-18 11:23:43 am

There are two restarts (one against each form of the final boss) and one load (first form), so that's actually not correct though. However, I was more referring to the text document with the level-by-level comments. They are somewhat helpful in that they describe some of the random elements, but they clearly describe a completely different run. Here's an example:

Quote:

Level 4:
I go back to base and hire a scout named Toki and go to the German Manor. I use Toki to take out an enemy blocking the stairs and then I run up. Its quicker if Toki dies so there is less combat. Now the clue I need is a white notepad which can be in several places in the house or not at all. Its not in the first tower so I break the window by throwing items and I go to the next office. Its there so I take it and leave the mission.

The clue was in the first tower in the submitted video. There are many more examples, where the comments describe one thing and the video shows something else.

LotBlind

2016-04-19 12:26:03 pm

This is what you get if I have to do double duty Tongue

SDAVerification

2016-04-26 11:41:42 am

Decision posted.

LotBlind

2016-04-26 12:38:14 pm

Sixtoo: don't feel bad, people get first runs rejected a lot. What I asked for still applies for future runs if you just can't get any better luck than this. Otherwise go segmented and at least that way you can guarantee (hope everything isn't seeded immediately) best case scenarios throughout. Just mess around more in general and maybe you'll find even more little knacks.