Silent Hill 3 - March 19, 2014

SDAVerification

UraniumAnchor

Edit history:

UraniumAnchor: 2014-03-19 04:51:28 pm

SDAVerification: 2014-03-18 11:29:54 pm

UraniumAnchor: 2014-03-13 08:45:38 pm

2014-02-17 08:31:14 pm

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SilentHill3.html

Silent Hill 3 (Any %) (Single Segment) (Easy)

Decision: Reject

Reason: Despite this being faster than the run it would arguably be replacing, that run is probably not really a valid category and the PC version of this run currently on the site is significantly more polished

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/915/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2014-02-17 08:31:20 pm

Run Information

Silent Hill 3 (Any %) (Single Segment) (Easy)

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/silenthill3-v_HQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting. Verifications are due by March 3, 2014.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

After 2 weeks I will read all of the verifications and move this thread to the main verification board and post my verdict.

ktwo

2014-02-21 01:48:58 am

There seems to be audio desync on this one. It starts off correctly but after a while it's just a blur of "sound of footsteps", "random enemy growl" and "door opening and closing for the nth time". The run is not acceptable unless this issue can be fixed.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2014-02-22 12:37:27 pm

2014-02-21 02:02:52 pm

The desync starts at around 13:00 and is easy to see in the worm fight that happens at that time. Then, after the long white loading screen at 13:30, it gets a lot worse. I'm not sure but I think the video might be lagging for a frame every once in a while.

You could cut of some from the end of the video.

Not a lot of big mistakes at all.

Accept (if A/V can be repaired)

UraniumAnchor

2014-03-04 08:30:08 pm

Not a walrus

Can we get some more discussion on this one? For now assume that nate can fix the desync, since it sounds like it's gradual.

Zorkiy

2014-03-05 01:59:30 pm

Cheating: not detected.

A/V: desynced as stated above.

So, the current PC SDA record is 41:07 by Introverder, the current PC WR most likely is 40:00 by Shunpuk, the current PS2 SDA record is 45:49 by Zhegan (which uses melee weapons only - Introverder said that was the reason he asked to keep the run at SDA). The object of this discussion is a 43:45 run which looks like an attempt to realize the Introverder's strategy on PS2. Unfortunately, I can't say the run is great. Not only it uses the outdated strat, but I've also noticed quite a big number of minor mistakes throughout it. Although some operations actually are slower in the PS2 version, I know how seriously all those minor mistakes can affect the total time. My decision, based on comparison with 40/41 min. runs, is to reject. However, the run does beat the current PS2 SDA record by a significant margin, so a person responsible for the final decision has a variety of choices. I hope the runner won't be discouraged by my post: you have a potential and can get a much better result by using a newer strat and working on its execution.

Cheating: not detected.

A/V: desynced as stated above.

So, the current PC SDA record is 41:07 by Introverder, the current PC WR most likely is 40:00 by Shunpuk, the current PS2 SDA record is 45:49 by Zhegan (which uses melee weapons only - Introverder said that was the reason he asked to keep the run at SDA). The object of this discussion is a 43:45 run which looks like an attempt to realize the Introverder's strategy on PS2. Unfortunately, I can't say the run is great. Not only it uses the outdated strat, but I've also noticed quite a big number of minor mistakes throughout it. Although some operations actually are slower in the PS2 version, I know how seriously all those minor mistakes can affect the total time. My decision, based on comparison with 40/41 min. runs, is to reject. However, the run does beat the current PS2 SDA record by a significant margin, so a person responsible for the final decision has a variety of choices. I hope the runner won't be discouraged by my post: you have a potential and can get a much better result by using a newer strat and working on its execution.

UraniumAnchor

2014-03-13 08:45:06 pm

Not a walrus

Alright I'm still a bit torn... I'm not sure if the old PS2 run really deserves its own category (I'm not familiar enough with the SH series to say), and while this run is faster than that, maybe it should be even faster just because of that lack of limitation, and it apparently does not compare favorably to the current PC run.

I hate to say it but I think I need more discussion on this one.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2014-03-14 02:27:13 pm

2014-03-14 02:26:36 pm

"melee weapons only" sounds like a pretty random category TBH. It's not like there's a special mode in the game that forces that or anything, I don't think?

I'll take a look at those PC runs too and see how frequently this run loses time to those outside loading things. I'm unfortunately also not versed in Silent Hill really at all.

JackintheBox333

2014-03-14 05:44:41 pm

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

Looking at the run, and not knowing the darnedest thing about this series at all, I'm not all that impressed to be honest. But this game has created an issue, is this run deserving to be on the site when compared to its PC counterpart. Exactly how different is the PC version that they deserve two separate categories? I'm not entirely convinced that they do. However if the categories of console and PC are indeed remaining separate, then under the premise of accepting faster runs than those already on the site, I don't mind giving an ACCEPT to this one, as the gameplay appears to be better than the previous console run and it is a couple of minutes faster. This is assuming the desync'd audio is fixed of course.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2014-03-15 05:35:57 pm

2014-03-15 04:06:52 pm

So about the old PS2 run: I really don't think "melee only" was even intended as a special category, the old run comments just say "didn't bother to pick up guns or ammo..." as part of the general strategy though that's slower, so if this is accepted it definitely obsoletes that one.

That being said the new PC WR is really quite fresh. I couldn't find any Silent Hill 3 threads since 2006 (discussion) and 2008 (a verification) so this run could probably be blamed for not starting new discussions to make sure no-one had better strats ready. Apparently the newer PC runs have better strats than this run uses by what Zorkiy is saying. I can tell the very first part is slower because the runner should apparently be dying to the monster instead of running through the gate and up the stairs to end that segment. That alone would seem to save over 10 seconds taking loading screens into account. I can't, however, find any runs that use that strategy that are any older than this year's February (talking about the same new batch of PC runs) which means the runner could well be excused for not knowing about them. So... There's another apparently very fresh strategy of using the shotgun on Leonard which seems to save another 10s from that fight. One more difference spotted in the God fight where the PC runs don't use aiming to aim upwards. The result is again somewhat faster.

Zorkiy could you be more specific about what strategies you were referring to that were obsolete and how new the new strategies are?

JackintheBox: different platforms generally always count as different categories due to controller differences etc. that make them unfair to compare. There's generally no cross-platform obsoletion either.

Differences I can see between PC/PS2: PC has an advantage getting to use the mouse to select elevator/code pad buttons. It looks quite a bit clumsier on the PS2 and the runner loses a little time with this though not more than 10 seconds I think. Otherwise it's pretty hard to tell. I think the PS2 controls have to be better generally because you can control turning more accurately and this is what some of the reviews seem to be saying too. The graphics in the PC version are apparently better in the sense that they make things easier to see so that if anything would probably give PC runners a little advantage.

So about the old PS2 run: I really don't think "melee only" was even intended as a special category, the old run comments just say "didn't bother to pick up guns or ammo..." as part of the general strategy though that's slower, so if this is accepted it definitely obsoletes that one.

That being said the new PC WR is really quite fresh. I couldn't find any Silent Hill 3 threads since 2006 (discussion) and 2008 (a verification) so this run could probably be blamed for not starting new discussions to make sure no-one had better strats ready. Apparently the newer PC runs have better strats than this run uses by what Zorkiy is saying. I can tell the very first part is slower because the runner should apparently be dying to the monster instead of running through the gate and up the stairs to end that segment. That alone would seem to save over 10 seconds taking loading screens into account. I can't, however, find any runs that use that strategy that are any older than this year's February (talking about the same new batch of PC runs) which means the runner could well be excused for not knowing about them. So... There's another apparently very fresh strategy of using the shotgun on Leonard which seems to save another 10s from that fight. One more difference spotted in the God fight where the PC runs don't use aiming to aim upwards. The result is again somewhat faster.

Zorkiy could you be more specific about what strategies you were referring to that were obsolete and how new the new strategies are?

JackintheBox: different platforms generally always count as different categories due to controller differences etc. that make them unfair to compare. There's generally no cross-platform obsoletion either.

Differences I can see between PC/PS2: PC has an advantage getting to use the mouse to select elevator/code pad buttons. It looks quite a bit clumsier on the PS2 and the runner loses a little time with this though not more than 10 seconds I think. Otherwise it's pretty hard to tell. I think the PS2 controls have to be better generally because you can control turning more accurately and this is what some of the reviews seem to be saying too. The graphics in the PC version are apparently better in the sense that they make things easier to see so that if anything would probably give PC runners a little advantage.

Zorkiy

2014-03-17 02:41:32 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

There's another apparently very fresh strategy of using the shotgun on Leonard which seems to save another 10s from that fight...
Zorkiy could you be more specific about what strategies you were referring to that were obsolete and how new the new strategies are?

That doesn't only save ~10 seconds. You don't have to pick up a katana anymore which saves 10 or so more. This, plus what you said about the beginning sequence, plus somewhat intense use of strafing throughout the game, plus other minor tweaks (for example, use of ampoules in city sequences).

LotBlind

2014-03-18 11:07:40 am

Yeah, but how new is all that stuff? I couldn't find any recent threads (which the runner could just have started of course).

SDAVerification

2014-03-18 11:29:57 pm

Decision posted.

LotBlind

2014-03-19 10:42:05 am

The only thing I disagree with here is that the old run wasn't initially making itself out as a separate, special "melee only"-category. Someone apparently later interpreted it that way. The old run comments don't indicate that so it was really just a routing mistake. So it can't be disregarded for that reason, which means it's also invalid to say this isn't an improvement on that run. As for the rest, it seems undeniable the route mimics the old PC one with too much piety.

ZenicReverie

2014-03-19 04:48:54 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

game page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SilentHill3.html

UraniumAnchor

2014-03-19 04:51:17 pm

Not a walrus

Quote from LotBlind:

The only thing I disagree with here is that the old run wasn't initially making itself out as a separate, special "melee only"-category. Someone apparently later interpreted it that way. The old run comments don't indicate that so it was really just a routing mistake. So it can't be disregarded for that reason, which means it's also invalid to say this isn't an improvement on that run. As for the rest, it seems undeniable the route mimics the old PC one with too much piety.

Possibly true, but then the problem is that the PC run probably should have "replaced" the old PS2 run. I'm still not convinced we should keep it, but there's no precedent for that sort of thing.

Of course, there's little precedent for refusing what is ostensibly an "improvement" either...

I wouldn't consider this matter closed, by any means, but for now I don't think this run is what we're looking for.