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My feelings on The Demon Rush
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Segmented run.

Verifier Responses

Quote:
Given I didn't make a mathematical error, the time is 38:47'03.

Segment 8 is supposed to be between Segments 4 and 5.

The main 8 stages are practically errorless. I can only praise how well they're done.

Errors show up in the castle stages, though. And even then, Sepperin 1-3 have very little errors too. In Sepperin 4, he fires FreudenStachel the wrong way on a ladder. And his luck during the fight with Sepperin sucked too.

A disappearing block slowed him down in Iris 1. Later on in the stage, he hesitated during another block puzzle, having to wait another cycle. He didn't get too many double hits on the Bosspider clone.

There's a video skip at about 12:05:xx on the game clock. It rewinds about a second. It's suspicious.

The boss refights are really good.

He missed some hits on Iris' first two forms.

Overall, performance is superb. The mistakes are few and don't impact the run much at all. This is an easy accept, so long as that video skip isn't a sign of cheating.


Quote:
Thank you for choosing me as a "Verifier"!

At first I have got to say that the segments do not seem to be in the right order. I think Part 8 should be the real Part 5, because the Girl selection screen clearly shows this.

To the run:

The quality is fine, although at the given quality, the red text sometimes is difficult to read. But the viewer can see everything that happens pretty clearly. The audio quality is fine, too!

There are no deaths.

I did not know about the order the player chose the Girls in. It simply rocks. It is so fast and interesting to watch, it is insane.
I played the game very often and simply did not know some things yet.
All replay times are far better than my times and I already thought my times are really good.
I do not think it is necessary to comment on each Girl in a separate way.
All levels are insanely fast with nice usage of the Items the game offers, namely "Eins" and "Zwei".
The chosen order seems to save a lot of time because you get to use "Eins" in the remaining 6 levels.
I can not imagine that it would be possible to save any more time on the levels, the player just rushes through them with such nice maneuvers and tricks it is just fun.
The fortress levels are very well planned with collecting items and such.
I also got to say there are some mistakes, but compared to the overall skill and playstyle they are very minor.
The run is interesting to watch!

I might add that I showed the videos to some friends of mine who also play(ed) the game and they were also saying it is astonishing, especially Sichte's level.


Quote:
The run's Rosenkreuz Stilette in 9 segments. I recommend going by the in-game clock; it's accurate and detects if the game slows down due to insufficient FPS. It counts the password screens, too, but I don't see that as a problem.

The password input isn't shown due to how the game's own recording system works, same goes for the ending & credits. These are because of the game, in case anyone wants to know. There are no known exploits in the recording system, so it should be as valid as any.

The run doesn't have deaths, there's no cheating present as far as I can see, the player's FPS stays at 55-60 almost all the time (this is critical since for example 30 FPS slows the game to 1/2 of the normal speed - plus it'd shows in the in-game time) and the video quality is the best in a verification copy that I've seen so far.

In general I agree with the strategy the runner uses, a few specific instances aside, which I will mention later. The route is good (can't think of anything better, myself). I do have lots to say about the level of the execution, though.

Spotted places for improvements:

Segment 1 (Freudia's stage):
-the runner wastes time by stopping to shoot the enemy at roughly 17 seconds into the video; he could've shot a charged shot before sliding into the short tunnel and hit it that way
-jumping over the small gap is faster by maybe ~0,5 seconds
-had the runner mashed the sliding a bit faster, he could've cleared the snowy upper part slightly faster
-the boss fight seemed to go pretty well, but the runner got hit a few times, which cost him time
Estimated room for improvement: 4, maybe even 5 seconds

Segment 2 (Grolla's stage):
-could've killed the mid boss faster by jumping to the platform on the right. This backfired further, since the runner had to jump from the left platform to advance to the right. For the record, the mid boss no longer causes collision damage once it starts to explode, and you can also move on faster because of that (since it no longer blocks your way).
-overall could've used a little more sliding. Standing up between the slides is not necessary, either, assuming you can spam sliding fast enough
-the first half of the boss fight is good, but the second half could've gone somewhat faster, since the runner gets hit frequently (which prevents him from releasing the charged shot) and concentrates a bit too much to dodge some of the attacks and thus not firing at the boss
Estimated room for improvement: 6-9 seconds

Segment 3 (Liebea's stage):
-the compactor section is handled inadequately; the runner should take total of two hits in the first three compactors and use the invulnerability time to clear the third compactor. Instead he fails to clear the first two 'correctly', so he ends up waiting for the third one to raise again. This is notable, as having to wait for the compactor to rise costs roughly 3 seconds alone. The run is segmented and the stage is one of the easiest to run/beat, so it's a pretty bad mistake.
-otherwise the stage's handled pretty well, but again I must underline that it's an easy stage
Estimated room for improvement: 3 seconds

Segment 4 (Luste's stage):
-could've used Eins to ascend the first set of ladders faster, saving roughly a second, maybe a bit less
-all the ledges (total 2, first at 30 into the video), where you must jump over a gap, which has one of those fan enemies on the other slide can be cleared with a jump from a slide. The runner, however, waits for the block to appear at the first gap, losing approx. 2 seconds in doing so
-could've saved at least half a second at 59 seconds into the video by doing a "dash jump", which basically exploits the momentum of the moving platform, allowing the player to reach the ladder faster in this case
Estimated room for improvement: 3,25 seconds

Segment 5 (Zorne's stage) (the verification copy is erroneously labeled as part 8; it's part 5):
-could've used Eins to ascend the ladders faster at 47 seconds into the video
-does not do a dash jump off Zwei at 1:06, which would've allowed the runner to preserve the momentum during the air time (Zwei (and dash jump) travels roughly at the same speed as sliding, whereas normal jumping is about as fast as walking), costing the runner a bit
Estimated room for improvement: 2,7 seconds

Segment 6 (Schwer-Muta's stage) (erroneously labeled as part 5. Note that the runner uses the weapon acquired in segment 5):
-doesn't use Eins to climb the first set of ladders faster, costs a bit of time
-waits for Zwei to start moving at 32 seconds into the video, making it questionable why use Zwei at all. Regardless, it costs a second
-at the end of the room, the runner could've slid off Zwei for faster speed, cutting off a tiny bit of time. Yeah, it's a really small improvement, but it's not like it's hard or something
-the charged Zornes Bombe at the start of the boss fight may be faster at first, but it backfires as you can't lay down another bomb without destroying it before the blast is gone. I'm not sure if it affects either way in the end, but I think one can get faster results with non-charged bombs
Estimated room for improvement: 2,5 seconds

Segment 7 (Sichte's stage) (labeled as part 6):
-needlessly stops at 29 seconds into the video
-does not use Eins at ~53 seconds into the video
-the Geister Wand could've been activated later. As it is, the runner stops to activate it, changes to another weapon and then starts moving again
-I was supposed to concentrate on improvements alone, but I must say the boss fight is beautiful
Estimated room for improvement: 1,75 seconds

Segment 8 (Trauare's stage) (labeled as part 7 怒り ):
-non-consecutive sliding aside, I don't really have anything bad to say about this segment
-I would consider getting Lilli a sound investment, even if it takes relatively long to get her and respawn at a previous check point
Estimated room for improvement: 0,25 seconds

Segment 9 (Sepperin Castle 1):
-should've used Zwei at 0:52 to ascend the ladders faster
-enters menu to change weapons
Estimated room for improvement: 2 seconds

Segment 9 (Sepperin Castle 2):
-takes unnecessary damage at 2:02, results in time loss
-the runner doesn't slide off the second to last platform at 2:24, uses the last one instead for 2-second time loss
-no dash jump at 2:42, loses a bit over a second because of that
-gets hit by the large boss attack, disabling him from attacking for a second
Estimated room for improvement: 5,5

Segment 9 (Sepperin Castle 3):
-the runner does not slide under the statue enemy at 4:04, 3-4 seconds lost.
-I noticed that the video runs ever so slightly faster than real time; the video at this point is 4:04, but the in-game clock ticks at ~4:06. The recording probably runs a bit over 60 FPS, since the difference by now is about 5 seconds; the timer doesn't count, of course, the video's statid.
-the room after that is a tad slow in terms of movement in the parts where the runner doesn't use Zwei.
-in the room after that the sliding isn't constant and the runner gets hit by an enemy which shouldn't hit him if the runner slid properly
-Grim Reaper does the scytche-swinging move, but it can be a bit tricky to avoid
Estimated room for improvement: 9 seconds

Segment 9 (Sepperin Castle 4):
-uses the rest of Zwei at 6:48. Using it a few rooms later would've been much more efficient and faster, though. This is not speculation, I've tested it
-shoots in wrong direction at 6:56, losing half a second
-loses time due to the previous Zwei usage in the room that is entered at 7:07
-now, I do realize boss randomness can be a bit of a pickle in longer segments, but losing 12 seconds because the boss keeps teleporting should be great enough problem to go for a restart, especially since the boss is normally expected to behave and teleport maybe just once, if that. The boss teleported at least about 4-5 times. Not good
Estimated room for improvement: 17-20 seconds

Segment 9 (Iris Palace 1):
-the runner waits roughly half a second before moving after reaching the top of the ladders in the beginning of the level
-the runner should slide a bit more in the same room as the ladders, but what's more important is wasted about five seconds because he placed Eins in a wrong spot. After that he tries it again and successfully does it how it should've been done in the first place, ie., in less than a second
-chooses the wrong way at 10:02; the path on the right is considerably faster, probably by around 4-7 seconds. The time can be cut in the leftmost path by using Eins, though, which the runner doesn't do
-gets hit at 10:22, which not only slowed him down just for the damage animation's duration, but also confused the player a bit, making him lose an extra second or two, for a total of little less than three seconds. While these minors ones are bound to happen sooner or later, it all adds up
-the runner didn't advance as fast as I would recommend at 10:37. It's a bit hard to nail the first platform AND get to the next one to advance faster (especially when considering the segment's lenght), but the least he could do is even try it!
-another pretty bad mistake at 10:53; the player thinks if he uses the Eins now, he won't have any for Iris 2 (for a stunt that's hard to pull off without one. For the record, he does have enough Eins energy for both). What makes it so bad is the runner doesn't use the first appearing block to advance and waits for a full round instead, costing him 5 seconds
-unnecessarily waits for the bullet to pass him at 11:04 and onwards, wasting approx. 1,3 seconds
-the boss fight could be improved, of course, by getting more 2-hit passes on the boss as it descends. Taking account the weapon's inaccuracy, it's challenging to do and the player did quite well in getting the one 2-hit pass in the fight. He also hits the boss every time it drops down. You can cut the boss fight time by two drops, but cutting it down by just one would be good, too. The boss is out of reach for a couple of seconds per round, a few seconds more if it launches small spiders
-there's something odd going on with the music as the game moves to the next palace screen. Knowing this was recorded off a record demo, the recorder probably just pushed weapon select left or right by accident. That's my guess, anyway
Estimated room for improvement: 22+ and the thing at 10:37 and the boss fight for extra time savers

Segment 9 (Iris Palace 2):
-the stage has overall less sliding than usual. Since the gravity changes constantly, it's no surprise, but a little more would have been better at times. I, for one, always get terribly confused at least for a couple of times when I play this stage, and I find it much harder than, say, Gravity Man's stage from Mega Man V. Of course, that might just be me
-situations like 12:33 would benefit largely from well planned weapon usage. The enemies who are protected with leaves until they shoot them lose their shield when the gravity changes until they hit the ground again. Liebe's Strum might (might!) work as a valid alternative, too. Anyway, time could be saved for over ten seconds' worth with that
-collects an unnecessary cross can
-takes time in choosing Eins and positioning, 4 seconds, to be exact
-takes many hits in the boss fight, but since they don't waste time and the last time I checked the site is still about speed rather than style, it's not a problem because using a cross can isn't necessary
Estimated room for improvement: 15-22 seconds, depending how much the runner is expected to slide extra. I'd say 18 seconds

Segment 9 (Iris Palace 3):
-using Freuden Stachel at 15:21 would prevent the hit the runner takes.
-waiting for the thrown javelin to pass isn't necessary. One can just slide off the ledges and easily make it to the next room unharmed
-the last refill could've been anticipated a little better, ie., to get the correct weapon ready before even getting to the refill
-the boss repeat aren't bad, really, but collecting health from every single boss is a waste of time, especially since the Sichte refight would benefit from lower health (Groll Schert would be considerably stronger)
-the strategy used in the Trauare refight is a bit on the safe side, but it's an acceptable trade-off
-the runner takes cover under the Iris Machine, while dodging the lightning in the front of the machine would've been faster, since the runner can't always get a clear shot at the machine while he's under it
-the second phase could've been done faster by charging Seeles Gewehr while waiting for the bomb to explode. Furthermore, the player misses a bomb on the machine once, a mistake that can be hard to avoid
-uses a cross tank. The fight can be done without one, but doing it efficiently so can be a pain
Estimated room for improvement: 13 + how much an efficient combination of Seeles Gewehr and Zornes Bombe can save in the second phase

Segment 9 (Iris Palace 4):
-unnecessary hit taken at the beginning of the level. Using Freuden Stachel could've prevented that
-shooting Iris before letting Lilli hit her could've saved one or even two phases (though the latter requires lots and lots of luck). Each phase takes roughly 3 seconds
Estimated room for improvement: 4 seconds

The "estimated room for improvement" doesn't include the potential of perfect sliding in general, since there's really no point in doing so (nor does it include tricks I'm not aware of, naturally). For reference, if someone were to run the game with perfect sliding (and by that I mean humanly impossible), I think it would save over 30 seconds overall, probably closer to a minute if not more with the further applications added to the mix. I would say a very skilled slider could save 15-20 seconds off a 38 minute long run. Then again, this ignores the fact that the runner doesn't slide as much as he should especially in the castle stages, meaning there's more to it than that.

A quick sum-up will reveal there are approx. 117 seconds left to improve, out of which 92 seconds worth occur in the last segment + whatever extra savers there was mentioned but not included in the estimated time to be potentially saved.

I recommend that the run should be rejected based on the last segment. While I would encourage the runner to work on all of the segments for a resubmission, the run would be acceptable even if the last segment was done better. However, my opinion is that improving the last segment is a must before this run could be accepted.

The runner finished the last segment first, and it shows.


Decision: Reject

Reason: There is room for a lot of improvement in the last segment. Also, the runner has already improved his run (read the topic).

Again, I had one reject override two because the last verifier's report was much more detailed and in-depth.
Thread title:  
Visually Appealing
Quote:
-the boss repeat aren't bad, really, but collecting health from every single boss is a waste of time, especially since the Sichte refight would benefit from lower health (Groll Schert would be considerably stronger)


i believe you actually have to collect the energy before the teleporter activates.
Edit history:
PreddY: 2009-02-16 01:39:11 am
Hope rides alone.
Quote from Satoryu:
Quote:
-the boss repeat aren't bad, really, but collecting health from every single boss is a waste of time, especially since the Sichte refight would benefit from lower health (Groll Schert would be considerably stronger)


i believe you actually have to collect the energy before the teleporter activates.


Nope Smiley just that late into the run I simply cannot die.

Will this go through a whole verification cycle again? assuming the reports of the top two are quite good, my improvements should be good enough now right? as there was nothing changed, just improved, and improving two Accepts should lead to another Accept, I just have to convince the 3rd verifier Wink currently its improved by 1 minute and 15 seconds.
Quote from PreddY:
as there was nothing changed, just improved, and improving two Accepts should lead to another Accept, I just have to convince the 3rd verifier Wink


That sounds just... so wrong.
Master-88
Quote:
Will this go through a whole verification cycle again?


I believe it go throug all again.

As far as i know my Probotector 2 run where twice accept and twice reject it, i am still waiting 2-weeks my next new decission. I understand very well how it is very frustrating wait weeks and you can,t know what happen.

Good luck with you. Wink
Edit history:
Satoryu: 2009-02-16 04:11:31 pm
Visually Appealing
assuming you did everything over, yeah, it would have to go through the whole process again.

Quote from PreddY:
currently its improved by 1 minute and 15 seconds.


though that's a worry point. the 3rd verifier said there was almost 2 minutes of improvement to be made. 3/4 of that was in the castle stages.
Talk to the Hand
Quote from Satoryu:
assuming you did everything over, yeah, it would have to go through the whole process again.

Quote from PreddY:
currently its improved by 1 minute and 15 seconds.


though that's a worry point. the 3rd verifier said there was almost 4 minutes of improvement to be made. 3/4 of that was in the castle stages.


Um...what?

117 seconds is 1 minute, 57 seconds.
Visually Appealing
wow. that's a hell of a typo. fixing.
Hope rides alone.
Well, he said 92 seconds can (!) be made, I accomplished 55 seconds of improvement, which already is a lot.
There is a difference in a lot of runs on the site where can-be-made =/ the-runner-is-able-to-make and the run still looks good.

117 seconds were mentioned, I did 75 seconds and everything looks much better now. Wasn't there some rule that mistakes shouldnt be more than a minute to be acceptable? And my mistakes only add up to maybe 20 seconds, the rest is still room for improvement, that a lot of other runs even mention in the comments and they were still published.
sda loyalist
The 'no more than a minute thing' is not a particularly helpful measure. If there are 'no more than a minute' of mistakes in a Dark Castle run, for example, it would be rejected pretty fast. But if it was in a 10 hour run like San Andreas, would probably be accepted.

Relative measures.
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
If this run was a SS, it might not have gotten rejected from these mistakes (I haven't seen the run, so I can only speculate, though). A minute lost in a half hour SS run is not that bad either (unless it's all at once, I suppose).