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My feelings on The Demon Rush
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John 'chessjerk' Kearsley IV's single-segment run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
I was one of the verifiers for the author's previous run too. I have to say this one is way better. Way way better. Really glad he didn't just give up after his first run got rejected.

There probably isn't so much I can babble about the run, so in short:


Overall bombing execution is superb. I spotted maybe one or two spots where he forgot to double-bomb, but that's nothing compared to the length of this speedrun. It's very optimal all the way through. Also missile and megaton bomb usage was well planned to speed through levels without slowly bombing.

Looks like he visited an optimal amount underground passages. He didn't end up with an useless amount of items. Moreover the item drops are random in this game so he'd rather want to have a little more instead of not enough. The items were also picked up better than last time. Not many useless items were picked; this happens almost unavoidably since the sight range of candles is short.

Well of Hopes were visited, which is good. The best resource of items & bombs.

Less megaton bombs were taken this time. Reason being some of them take quite a lot of time to pick up, I guess. Bosses were killed with missiles instead, which both looks better and probably isn't even slower. Good call.

All bossfights were fast. Even the one he bombed got killed really quick. I can't tell for sure but looks like he hit the boss with every bomb, and that must not be very easy to do since the boss moves randomly.


So yeah, can't really bitch about anything. This is a very good first run of this game. Hope to see more runs from the author in future!

Oh, good video and audio quality, no signs of cheating.

Judgement: Accept!


Quote:
Verification comments for RoboWarrior (NES, NTSC).

Video quality :
---------------
Same thing as last time... (not great, but nothing to reject for either)

Legitimacy :
------------
Ok.

Gameplay :
----------
The new run is almost a 10 minute improvement over the rejected run. So the decision is crystal clear then ? The fact that the runner managed to pull off this run and another run that was much faster than the rejected run on the same day (and only a day after I posted some strategies in the forum that were included in this run) got the alarm bells to go off in my head... But let's see...

1-1 - Ok, the runner got a good start with the missile drops, but he then jerked around when trying to pick up the life west and then messed up a bit trying to bomb an enemy. I don't think these mistakes cost much time, but it's painful to see things like that early in the run.

2-1 - The runner wasted some time looking for the exit in the last underground area, but otherwise ok.

2-2 - While it didn't matter in this run, I don't fully agree with the missile use in the end. It only saved waiting for three sets of bombs. Saving a missile there would increase the chance of getting runs with the right luck.

3-1 - This was the last level the runner went into the underground areas (except for an obligatory one later on), which means (if I counted correctly) that he saved us 13 visits (~7 minutes). That's the main reason for the huge improvement. However, why was the second underground area in this level visited ? It didn't yield any missiles. To me it looks like 30 seconds thrown out the window ! Just like that...
Ok, let's continue. So was this run extremely lucky up until this point then ? When coming out of the last underground area, this run had 19 missiles and the previous one had 9. Three more were used on the first levels in the previous one, so the actual difference is 7 missiles. Still, it's quite a lot, so I'm willing to accept that this run had good luck (also based on some own testing).

3-2 - Ok.

3-3 (boss) - Very nice.

4-1 - Ok. By going a bit more for the medals, the runner could have bought a lamp in the previous shop and then avoided the room of idols here (would have saved a couple of seconds). But it's a close call and I don't really blame him for not doing so either.

4-2 - 5-3 - Ok.

5-4 (boss) - Flawless.

6-1 - 6-3 - Ok.

6-4 (boss) - Well done.

7-1 - At one point, the runner bombed four trees (?) in a row. In many other areas, a missile would have been used for less...

7-2 - Ok.

7-3 (boss) - Ok, I'm sort of glad that the runner used flashes, which normally saves you precious missiles. However, in this case the runner had enough missiles and could have saved a couple of seconds by using them.

7-4 - No ! No ! Don't take them, please don't ! Leave them alone... Oh no, too late... Argh... He grabbed the extra missiles that just ended up boosting his inventory...

7-5 (boss) - Fast and clean.

8-1 - 8-3 - Ok.

8-4 (boss) - Like all the other boss fights, this one was very impressive.

8-5 (boss) - As impressive as the previous fight. Missiles were used instead of megaton bombs. This was the other major source for the time saved over the previous run (the megaton bombs were used in the levels this time around).

Overall a good time, but the run has quite a few shortcomings. As can be expected from such rapid preparations, the run is full of more or less costly errors coming from bad decisions. (and there are certainly things I'm overlooking as well)
And what's up with all the boots ? While the runner has drastically cut down on chasing down useless items, he still didn't hesitate to run after basically every single boot drop. I don't get why boots are so critical. Sure, they're used a lot, but they're also very common and the inventory was almost full at the end of the game.

Finally, I'd like to mention something that hasn't been discussed so far. The runner occasionally used flashes in the levels. I would have liked to see him use the stop watch instead. The enemies freeze for quite some time and this helps the runner more than just for the screen he currently is on. It should save a couple of seconds over the course of a run. I can also imagine that bad luck with getting flashes can be a problem for a run, so better holding on to them should help out a little.


Decision :
----------
My vote goes towards accepting this, but it's a weak accept. There are many impressive parts in the run (I know I haven't discussed them much, but they are there), all the boss fights are very fast and the runner got good luck with the item drops.

To be honest though, while I'm happy that the runner listened to some of the advice given after the previous run, this run again feels rushed. I'm actually quite disappointed that the runner didn't do more to come up with a solid performance instead of taking the first run with the right luck in the beginning (that's why I sound a bit irritated in these comments, just business, nothing personal). It is evident in some areas that the runner happily continued on without a proper plan regarding the inventory management.

I'm sure people will enjoy this video and be amazed by watching someone run through this game (if they don't stop watching after the mistakes in 1-1 that is). Anyone willing to scratch on the surface will however quickly realize that the run lacks the thouroughness and dedication behind any of the top runs on sda. If the runner is happy with producing a "bulk" run, so be it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I could have done it any better myself. I just know that the potential was there to do more than this (and yes, it annoys me a little).


Quote:
Video and Audio quality are acceptable. Audio sounds better than the previous submission, and video looks a bit better here compared to the previous as well, least to my eyes.

He had better luck here, especially in Period 8-3 where he almost died. I'm pretty sure the runner was glad he wasn't playing BomberKing(the Japanese version of Robowarrior) since he would of been dead.

Bit of boss battle comments.

Globula: Better fight than before. I don't think a bomb even missed.

Viripedes: Flash ftw

Aquarian: Similar to his previous run, only this time the boss moved towards the exit. Made things easier for him.

Lian: ...Flash was one of the last things I'd think about using here. Lian, you are grounded!(Ok so its a lame joke in a verifier's comments, sue me!)

Pyrodyne: Dies like his brother(sister?) Aquarian(Wait are they even related besides being opposite elements?)

Gholem: ZED sure knows how to take rocks to the face like a cyborg. A bit better compared to the old run.

Xur: I always thought Megaton Bombs would of been better here since I always thought they were stronger than other items, but even though I was right, Missiles were the better choice.


I'm rejecting this run for the fact its not BomberKing...but in all seriousness, a much better run compared to his original submission, so a definite accept from me.


Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a substantial improvement over the rejected run.
Thread title:  
Thanks to the verifiers!

Quote:
1-1 - Ok, the runner got a good start with the missile drops, but he then jerked around when trying to pick up the life west and then messed up a bit trying to bomb an enemy. I don't think these mistakes cost much time, but it's painful to see things like that early in the run.


100% agree. I considered restarting after the level was over, but I had never gotten anywhere near that many missile drops on the first level before, so I stuck it out.

Quote:
2-1 - The runner wasted some time looking for the exit in the last underground area, but otherwise ok.


Yeah, I thought that I had missed it. Sad

Quote:
2-2 - While it didn't matter in this run, I don't fully agree with the missile use in the end. It only saved waiting for three sets of bombs. Saving a missile there would increase the chance of getting runs with the right luck.


Due to the high number of missile drops I'd received, I figured I could blow one here without many repurcussions. Also, in order to get to the underground, I think I saved 4 bombs, not 3.

Quote:
3-1 - This was the last level the runner went into the underground areas (except for an obligatory one later on), which means (if I counted correctly) that he saved us 13 visits (~7 minutes). That's the main reason for the huge improvement. However, why was the second underground area in this level visited ? It didn't yield any missiles. To me it looks like 30 seconds thrown out the window ! Just like that...
Ok, let's continue. So was this run extremely lucky up until this point then ? When coming out of the last underground area, this run had 19 missiles and the previous one had 9. Three more were used on the first levels in the previous one, so the actual difference is 7 missiles. Still, it's quite a lot, so I'm willing to accept that this run had good luck (also based on some own testing).


Meh, I guess you're right.

Quote:
7-1 - At one point, the runner bombed four trees (?) in a row. In many other areas, a missile would have been used for less...


Yeah, it looks bad in retrospect. Sad

Quote:
7-3 (boss) - Ok, I'm sort of glad that the runner used flashes, which normally saves you precious missiles. However, in this case the runner had enough missiles and could have saved a couple of seconds by using them.


This is wrong. He dies in pretty much the same amount of time whether I use missiles or flashes. The reason is that he runs off the screen after a missile shot, so I can't just hit him four times quickly with missiles before he runs off the screen.

Quote:
7-4 - No ! No ! Don't take them, please don't ! Leave them alone... Oh no, too late... Argh... He grabbed the extra missiles that just ended up boosting his inventory...


Four seconds lost. I can live with that.

Quote:
Overall a good time, but the run has quite a few shortcomings. As can be expected from such rapid preparations, the run is full of more or less costly errors coming from bad decisions. (and there are certainly things I'm overlooking as well)
And what's up with all the boots ? While the runner has drastically cut down on chasing down useless items, he still didn't hesitate to run after basically every single boot drop. I don't get why boots are so critical. Sure, they're used a lot, but they're also very common and the inventory was almost full at the end of the game.


Um, I'm going to need help with this one. Yes, I chased down boots at the beginning (kinda like I chase down Missiles in the beginning), but after the last underground visit, I stopped. I think this criticism is not warranted at all.

Quote:
Finally, I'd like to mention something that hasn't been discussed so far. The runner occasionally used flashes in the levels. I would have liked to see him use the stop watch instead. The enemies freeze for quite some time and this helps the runner more than just for the screen he currently is on. It should save a couple of seconds over the course of a run. I can also imagine that bad luck with getting flashes can be a problem for a run, so better holding on to them should help out a little.


That's a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Quote:
Decision :
----------
My vote goes towards accepting this, but it's a weak accept. There are many impressive parts in the run (I know I haven't discussed them much, but they are there), all the boss fights are very fast and the runner got good luck with the item drops.

To be honest though, while I'm happy that the runner listened to some of the advice given after the previous run, this run again feels rushed. I'm actually quite disappointed that the runner didn't do more to come up with a solid performance instead of taking the first run with the right luck in the beginning (that's why I sound a bit irritated in these comments, just business, nothing personal). It is evident in some areas that the runner happily continued on without a proper plan regarding the inventory management.

I'm sure people will enjoy this video and be amazed by watching someone run through this game (if they don't stop watching after the mistakes in 1-1 that is). Anyone willing to scratch on the surface will however quickly realize that the run lacks the thouroughness and dedication behind any of the top runs on sda. If the runner is happy with producing a "bulk" run, so be it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I could have done it any better myself. I just know that the potential was there to do more than this (and yes, it annoys me a little).


Honestly, you sound VERY irritated in these comments, and I'm baffled as to why. Yes, with even MORE luck than I had in this run, maybe I can take another minute off. It's awfully tough to do a 30+ minute run and have absolutely nothing go wrong, which it kinda sounds like what was expected.

To say this run lacks thoroughness and dedication? How do you know how many times I attempted this run? How do you know how much time I put in to developing a route?

Maybe I'm taking your comments too seriously? I don't know what to think.

In any case, thanks for the help and for the acceptance.
Weegee Time
Quote:
2-2 - While it didn't matter in this run, I don't fully agree with the missile use in the end. It only saved waiting for three sets of bombs. Saving a missile there would increase the chance of getting runs with the right luck.

This comment actually boggles my mind.  The point is to have the fastest and most proficient run possible, yes?  Playing safe to have more "consistent" luck goes entirely against that goal.  If someone ends up being blessed by the RNG and can finagle a way to use it to their advantage to cut off a second, more power to them!  Saying you disagree with the missile use is basically saying you disagree with a faster run, especially because if the run tanked later because of it, it would simply *gasp* not get submitted!
Quote from chessjerk:
Quote:
7-3 (boss) - Ok, I'm sort of glad that the runner used flashes, which normally saves you precious missiles. However, in this case the runner had enough missiles and could have saved a couple of seconds by using them.


This is wrong. He dies in pretty much the same amount of time whether I use missiles or flashes. The reason is that he runs off the screen after a missile shot, so I can't just hit him four times quickly with missiles before he runs off the screen.


Mmmkay, it's just that your previous run, where missiles were used, was 2.5 seconds faster...

Quote from chessjerk:
Quote:
Overall a good time, but the run has quite a few shortcomings. As can be expected from such rapid preparations, the run is full of more or less costly errors coming from bad decisions. (and there are certainly things I'm overlooking as well)
And what's up with all the boots ? While the runner has drastically cut down on chasing down useless items, he still didn't hesitate to run after basically every single boot drop. I don't get why boots are so critical. Sure, they're used a lot, but they're also very common and the inventory was almost full at the end of the game.


Um, I'm going to need help with this one. Yes, I chased down boots at the beginning (kinda like I chase down Missiles in the beginning), but after the last underground visit, I stopped. I think this criticism is not warranted at all.


All I can say is that the final inventory was 84...

Quote from chessjerk:
Quote:
Decision :
----------
My vote goes towards accepting this, but it's a weak accept. There are many impressive parts in the run (I know I haven't discussed them much, but they are there), all the boss fights are very fast and the runner got good luck with the item drops.

To be honest though, while I'm happy that the runner listened to some of the advice given after the previous run, this run again feels rushed. I'm actually quite disappointed that the runner didn't do more to come up with a solid performance instead of taking the first run with the right luck in the beginning (that's why I sound a bit irritated in these comments, just business, nothing personal). It is evident in some areas that the runner happily continued on without a proper plan regarding the inventory management.

I'm sure people will enjoy this video and be amazed by watching someone run through this game (if they don't stop watching after the mistakes in 1-1 that is). Anyone willing to scratch on the surface will however quickly realize that the run lacks the thouroughness and dedication behind any of the top runs on sda. If the runner is happy with producing a "bulk" run, so be it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I could have done it any better myself. I just know that the potential was there to do more than this (and yes, it annoys me a little).


Honestly, you sound VERY irritated in these comments, and I'm baffled as to why. Yes, with even MORE luck than I had in this run, maybe I can take another minute off. It's awfully tough to do a 30+ minute run and have absolutely nothing go wrong, which it kinda sounds like what was expected.

To say this run lacks thoroughness and dedication? How do you know how many times I attempted this run? How do you know how much time I put in to developing a route?

Maybe I'm taking your comments too seriously? I don't know what to think.

In any case, thanks for the help and for the acceptance.


The luck was good as well as the execution. My concerns were with the planning. I think it's a pity when a good speedrunner performs great at the execution, but then haven't stream-lined the route. The planning for this game is not evident, but compared to the execution (that you already master) it should be a piece of cake. I also have to mention that the nitpicking serves the purpose of documenting some of the ideas for potential future runners.

I hope you are satisfied with my answer and that I haven't put you off from submitting more runs. In fact I'm looking forward to see more from you.
Quote from Rakuen:
Quote:
2-2 - While it didn't matter in this run, I don't fully agree with the missile use in the end. It only saved waiting for three sets of bombs. Saving a missile there would increase the chance of getting runs with the right luck.

This comment actually boggles my mind.  The point is to have the fastest and most proficient run possible, yes?  Playing safe to have more "consistent" luck goes entirely against that goal.  If someone ends up being blessed by the RNG and can finagle a way to use it to their advantage to cut off a second, more power to them!  Saying you disagree with the missile use is basically saying you disagree with a faster run, especially because if the run tanked later because of it, it would simply *gasp* not get submitted!


You're sort of right. My comment was actually more to document the idea for future runners. I'd say that using a missile in this case was extremely risky. You can't use missiles everywhere anyways, so that particular missile could have been used with less risk later on. Bah... It's difficult to explain, I guess you'll wait until the run gets published...
Quote from ktwo:
Mmmkay, it's just that your previous run, where missiles were used, was 2.5 seconds faster...


I'd rather sacrifice 2.5 seconds, maintain my missile supply, and use up the flashes that have virtually no chance of being needed later. Yes, I realize I ended up with extra missiles, but that is not necessarily the norm. I had quite a few attempts run afoul of a lack of a missile supply.

Quote:
All I can say is that the final inventory was 84...


How can you simply look at the end result and conclude I picked up too many, without checking to see how many I picked up after period 3-1? With the doubling of the Wells of Hope, of course I'm going to end up with way too many items, giving the impression that I picked up too many items. This simply is not the case. I didn't chase after a single boot item that was out of the way after 3-1.

Quote:
The luck was good as well as the execution. My concerns were with the planning. I think it's a pity when a good speedrunner performs great at the execution, but then haven't stream-lined the route. The planning for this game is not evident, but compared to the execution (that you already master) it should be a piece of cake. I also have to mention that the nitpicking serves the purpose of documenting some of the ideas for potential future runners.

I hope you are satisfied with my answer and that I haven't put you off from submitting more runs. In fact I'm looking forward to see more from you.


How can you equate "too many item pickups" with "no evident planning"? The route wasn't planned? The boss strategies weren't planned? The Megaton Bomb usage (with an assist from the verifiers) wasn't planned?

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the feedback. I do feel that some of the comments were overly nit-picky or simply not warranted. Obviously, the "no evident planning" comment is one of the latter.

No worries about submitting more runs in the future, I have one or two games in mind for future speed-runs.
We all scream for Eyes Cream
Quote from chessjerk:
Quote:
7-3 (boss) - Ok, I'm sort of glad that the runner used flashes, which normally saves you precious missiles. However, in this case the runner had enough missiles and could have saved a couple of seconds by using them.


This is wrong. He dies in pretty much the same amount of time whether I use missiles or flashes. The reason is that he runs off the screen after a missile shot, so I can't just hit him four times quickly with missiles before he runs off the screen.


I do kinda wonder. Would you be able to hit him with a Missile and then spam Flash to kill him? Would be faster than just using Flash.
Quote from chessjerk:
How can you equate "too many item pickups" with "no evident planning"? The route wasn't planned? The boss strategies weren't planned? The Megaton Bomb usage (with an assist from the verifiers) wasn't planned?


I'm not sure what you're trying say here. Do you refer to the "The planning for this game is not evident" statement ? That referred to the game itself and not your run. Saying that your run lacked all kind of planning is not what I think.

The run was good enough for me to vote for accepting it here, but at the same time I mentioned that the planning could have been better. I illustrated this sentiment with examples. You have replied to the criticism. By that, I hope we can move on from the discussion about the appreciation of your run. If you want to discuss strategies, I'll try to contribute if I can. (I have nothing to add regarding your comments on the boots or on the 7-3 boss though)

Quote from Axel Ryman:
I do kinda wonder. Would you be able to hit him with a Missile and then spam Flash to kill him? Would be faster than just using Flash.


You need 16 flashes or 4 missiles to take down the 7-3 boss. If you want to mix, it would probably be easier to first use flashes and then top it off with a missile (12 flashes and 1 missile ?). Then you don't need to worry about the boss disappearing off-screen. Yeah, it sounds like your idea would at least be faster than only using flashes (less times accessing the menu). I haven't tested it, so I don't how it compares with only missiles.
Quote from ktwo:
I'm not sure what you're trying say here. Do you refer to the "The planning for this game is not evident" statement ? That referred to the game itself and not your run. Saying that your run lacked all kind of planning is not what I think.

The run was good enough for me to vote for accepting it here, but at the same time I mentioned that the planning could have been better. I illustrated this sentiment with examples. You have replied to the criticism. By that, I hope we can move on from the discussion about the appreciation of your run. If you want to discuss strategies, I'll try to contribute if I can. (I have nothing to add regarding your comments on the boots or on the 7-3 boss though)


I guess I was more confused about your wording than anything else. Regardless, I understand your intentions, and yes, we can move on. Smiley