My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet
Single-segment run
Verifier Responses
I discussed with the runner a bit what the verifiers had to say, and in the end he said this:
Decision: Reject
Reason: While it's impressive someone beat the game, the runner simply spent too much time collecting items.
Anyone interested can ask for the run until February 28th, just PM me.
Single-segment run
Verifier Responses
Quote:
I was eager to see this speedrun because I had a cartridge of Robowarrior as a child and I could never get really far in the game.
Well now I've seen it and it was quite nostalgy in a way.
Our whole family played NES back in ~1994 when we got one with about 20 games. Obviously I spent most of my time playing with it. But then my mom wanted to play Super Mario Bros., and that pissed me off because it took her forever to get past any levels. Why? Because she collected every damn coin visible or hidden. In my opinion it was more fun running and jumping on some enemies. But she probably wasn't even aware of the B-button.
This run reminded me a lot of those days as I was forced to watch the author collect more stuff than I knew existed.
Everytime he entered another cave to collect items I bit my hand. It's just that painful to watch. Moreover he collected just about every item there, even the ones that just give points. And when he wasn't in a cave, he spent a lot of time bombing around randomly to get some more items. Also every Well of Hope was visited.
In short, he collected everything, with every method possible. I won't bother listing all of them, but I estimate he spent a good 10-15 minutes doing all that. And he ended up with a ridiculous amount of items (many at x99). Then he just ended up blasting megaton bombs at the last boss, which don't get multiplied by Well of Hope, and they can't be found in caves either. Oh well.
I know he just barely made it with bombs to the end (only x1 left), but he could've visited a cave at the end levels instead, or possibly get some bombs from Room of Idols.
I'd like to say the gameplay itself was good. His usage of bombs and missiles were quite optimal. With better planning he could easily beat this record by several minutes.
Oh right, no cheating, great audio and video quality. But failed to impress.
Judgement: Reject, and hope for a better attempt.
Well now I've seen it and it was quite nostalgy in a way.
Our whole family played NES back in ~1994 when we got one with about 20 games. Obviously I spent most of my time playing with it. But then my mom wanted to play Super Mario Bros., and that pissed me off because it took her forever to get past any levels. Why? Because she collected every damn coin visible or hidden. In my opinion it was more fun running and jumping on some enemies. But she probably wasn't even aware of the B-button.
This run reminded me a lot of those days as I was forced to watch the author collect more stuff than I knew existed.
Everytime he entered another cave to collect items I bit my hand. It's just that painful to watch. Moreover he collected just about every item there, even the ones that just give points. And when he wasn't in a cave, he spent a lot of time bombing around randomly to get some more items. Also every Well of Hope was visited.
In short, he collected everything, with every method possible. I won't bother listing all of them, but I estimate he spent a good 10-15 minutes doing all that. And he ended up with a ridiculous amount of items (many at x99). Then he just ended up blasting megaton bombs at the last boss, which don't get multiplied by Well of Hope, and they can't be found in caves either. Oh well.
I know he just barely made it with bombs to the end (only x1 left), but he could've visited a cave at the end levels instead, or possibly get some bombs from Room of Idols.
I'd like to say the gameplay itself was good. His usage of bombs and missiles were quite optimal. With better planning he could easily beat this record by several minutes.
Oh right, no cheating, great audio and video quality. But failed to impress.
Judgement: Reject, and hope for a better attempt.
Quote:
Verification comments for RoboWarrior (NES, NTSC).
Video quality :
---------------
Honestly, the quality is quite crappy, but I don't know if it's because of a lower encoding quality or if the original video is bad (VHS or something). It's not something to reject the run for, but it would be highly appreciated if the runner could find another setup when recording future runs.
Legitimacy :
------------
I could not detect any cheating or inconsistencies. I would like to add that the video starts out by a failed attempt. I don't know if this is left in by mistake or not. In any case, I think it's not a bad idea in general to keep the end of the last failure for the verification copies. This means the reset is shown and gives an indication that a real console was used (in case that is not apparent elsewhere). I'll sure try to think of that next time I'm submitting something. Player control in the run starts at 00.41.
Gameplay :
----------
The runner proves great skill in manoeuvering Zed in what is one of the more challenging games for the NES. It's definitely a runner with great potential. The execution is not perfect and there are things to comment on, but the game is also random and the hitbox detection is difficult to work with. These two reasons make me a bit more lenient on how I look upon this aspect of the verification.
As for the planning, I do have a few concerns. This is a VAST subject, so I'm not going to go too much into details, just trying to demonstrate where I'm coming from with a few examples.
- The runner chose to use 7 megaton bombs (MB) on the last boss. I can take out the last boss 25 seconds slower with ~15 missiles, so I'm going to assume a more skillful player (=the runner) can do it 20 seconds slower than with MB. This means a time gain of 3 seconds per MB. In level 4-3, a MB would save 15 seconds. In level 7-4, a MB on the first screen would save 10 seconds. That's more than the whole time gain on the final boss with only 2 out of the 7 MB used ! A more detailed analysis would be needed to determine where all the MB should have been used.
- Many items must be stocked up in the levels and in the underground. The problem with the underground areas is that you don't advance in the levels at the same time. You get more items, but it also costs around 30 seconds each time. I mean it should be possible to do a run with less underground visits. Especially if a clever use of MB could replace some of the missiles used (and even replenish the inventory). To further optimize the item use, the 7-3 boss could have been taken out with flashes instead of missiles (slower, but still better than an underground visit).
- It's hard to say how much time it took to run after 50 medals in order to buy a MB in the end, but I'm not sure it outweighed the potential use for it. How about picking up a lamp or two instead and thus avoiding trips to the rooms of idols or just not running after the medals at all ? (I'm just highlighting the subject here, I'm not concluding on anything)
- The runner decides to run after too many insignificant items. I know it's hard to see in the underground areas, but a number of mistakes are also made in the overworld. I think these are more planning than execution mistakes. For example, points increase the defense, but is it really necessary to go out of the way for a one-star (100 points) or a two-star (1000 points) ? The total score was close to 1M...
Decision :
----------
Despite the remarkable feat of running through this game, I'm voting for a rejection based on unoptimized planning. I think at least 1-2 minutes are lost for planning purposes only. I hope the runner takes the criticism constructively and decides to redo the run. If he is interested in feedback, I'm prepared to discuss ideas of improvement in the sda forum.
Video quality :
---------------
Honestly, the quality is quite crappy, but I don't know if it's because of a lower encoding quality or if the original video is bad (VHS or something). It's not something to reject the run for, but it would be highly appreciated if the runner could find another setup when recording future runs.
Legitimacy :
------------
I could not detect any cheating or inconsistencies. I would like to add that the video starts out by a failed attempt. I don't know if this is left in by mistake or not. In any case, I think it's not a bad idea in general to keep the end of the last failure for the verification copies. This means the reset is shown and gives an indication that a real console was used (in case that is not apparent elsewhere). I'll sure try to think of that next time I'm submitting something. Player control in the run starts at 00.41.
Gameplay :
----------
The runner proves great skill in manoeuvering Zed in what is one of the more challenging games for the NES. It's definitely a runner with great potential. The execution is not perfect and there are things to comment on, but the game is also random and the hitbox detection is difficult to work with. These two reasons make me a bit more lenient on how I look upon this aspect of the verification.
As for the planning, I do have a few concerns. This is a VAST subject, so I'm not going to go too much into details, just trying to demonstrate where I'm coming from with a few examples.
- The runner chose to use 7 megaton bombs (MB) on the last boss. I can take out the last boss 25 seconds slower with ~15 missiles, so I'm going to assume a more skillful player (=the runner) can do it 20 seconds slower than with MB. This means a time gain of 3 seconds per MB. In level 4-3, a MB would save 15 seconds. In level 7-4, a MB on the first screen would save 10 seconds. That's more than the whole time gain on the final boss with only 2 out of the 7 MB used ! A more detailed analysis would be needed to determine where all the MB should have been used.
- Many items must be stocked up in the levels and in the underground. The problem with the underground areas is that you don't advance in the levels at the same time. You get more items, but it also costs around 30 seconds each time. I mean it should be possible to do a run with less underground visits. Especially if a clever use of MB could replace some of the missiles used (and even replenish the inventory). To further optimize the item use, the 7-3 boss could have been taken out with flashes instead of missiles (slower, but still better than an underground visit).
- It's hard to say how much time it took to run after 50 medals in order to buy a MB in the end, but I'm not sure it outweighed the potential use for it. How about picking up a lamp or two instead and thus avoiding trips to the rooms of idols or just not running after the medals at all ? (I'm just highlighting the subject here, I'm not concluding on anything)
- The runner decides to run after too many insignificant items. I know it's hard to see in the underground areas, but a number of mistakes are also made in the overworld. I think these are more planning than execution mistakes. For example, points increase the defense, but is it really necessary to go out of the way for a one-star (100 points) or a two-star (1000 points) ? The total score was close to 1M...
Decision :
----------
Despite the remarkable feat of running through this game, I'm voting for a rejection based on unoptimized planning. I think at least 1-2 minutes are lost for planning purposes only. I hope the runner takes the criticism constructively and decides to redo the run. If he is interested in feedback, I'm prepared to discuss ideas of improvement in the sda forum.
Quote:
Video quality is fine. Sound quality seems a bit laggy when he's going up the stairs between Underground segments, at least to me. Sound is fine afterwards and in other parts too though.
Speaking of the Underground segments, at times he passed by certain items when he could of easily grabbed them only to pick up the same one further on that is more out of the way. He also grabs some items that aren't worth grabbing, mainly the Cross Shot since its use in the run was non-existent. Overall, I think he lost total of 20 seconds to even a minute. I won't complain too much about the Underground since the games randomness(except for certain items being in a specific spot) is what really makes it hard to run.
Besides maybe a bit more Missile spam(Mainly a few uses of it during the Globula fight, along with the Flash item) as well as Speed Boot spam(mainly early on), I'm giving this an accept since his luck was good for this run.
Speaking of the Underground segments, at times he passed by certain items when he could of easily grabbed them only to pick up the same one further on that is more out of the way. He also grabs some items that aren't worth grabbing, mainly the Cross Shot since its use in the run was non-existent. Overall, I think he lost total of 20 seconds to even a minute. I won't complain too much about the Underground since the games randomness(except for certain items being in a specific spot) is what really makes it hard to run.
Besides maybe a bit more Missile spam(Mainly a few uses of it during the Globula fight, along with the Flash item) as well as Speed Boot spam(mainly early on), I'm giving this an accept since his luck was good for this run.
I discussed with the runner a bit what the verifiers had to say, and in the end he said this:
Quote:
Mike:
After a good night's sleep, I re-watched the run. I see now how using the Megaton Bombs in a different way could save some time, and I did go more out of my way to collect useless items than I thought I did.
Please apologize to the verifiers, I hope I wasn't too snarky in my response to their verification responses.
Thanks
After a good night's sleep, I re-watched the run. I see now how using the Megaton Bombs in a different way could save some time, and I did go more out of my way to collect useless items than I thought I did.
Please apologize to the verifiers, I hope I wasn't too snarky in my response to their verification responses.
Thanks
Decision: Reject
Reason: While it's impressive someone beat the game, the runner simply spent too much time collecting items.
Anyone interested can ask for the run until February 28th, just PM me.
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