My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: doesn't exist yet
Jeff Feasel's single-segment novice run
Verifier Responses
This verification counts as me and another guy because I forgot to save my logs of his real verification response.
This is what the runner said when I questioned him about the lamb leg.
Wha? No, no... There seems to be a misunderstanding of game mechanics here that needs clearing up:
When i say that the lamb leg lets me recover from several knock-downs, i mean "several instances of losing all my stamina and being knocked down". Not just a regular knock-down. Will-power actually saves you from death. As you know, in the latter half of the game, just about anything that knocks you down will also do 3-6 bars of damage, so stamina is completely useless at this point (which is why i stock up on will-power instead of buying something that gives stamina). That is precisely why i buy the lamb leg. Insurance.
The lamb leg would indeed have saved me if somebody had knocked me down. Regardless of the amount of damage done. It is a cautious, but certainly not moot.
FYI: If i were to do another attempt at this run (or at the Advanced mode) i might try skipping the lamb-leg, which would greatly(!) increase the number of attempts needed to complete the game but save about 17-20 seconds. It's actually kind of ironic that in this run i didn't end up getting knocked down at all during the last part of the game. This was the first time it has ever happened to me, and it is a very rare occurrence.
Decision: Accept
Reason: Despite the lamb leg incident, the run is well-planned and has tight execution.
Jeff Feasel's single-segment novice run
Verifier Responses
Quote:
Comments for River City Ransom (NES)
Video/Audio Quality:
Streamlined video and well-synched audio. No signs of tampering, editing, or modification.
Cheating:
Legitimate play throughout.
Planning/Route:
Looks pretty standard. The head gang members are defeated in order and the two purchased items are at logical times.
I did a little side testing to see if farming Generics in the first two areas to buy Dragon Feet is faster. Doing it this way allows you to death abuse outside Rocco's warehouse, which puts you a lot closer to Sherman Park & Blade. After trying a couple times, the runner was always a few seconds ahead. ...Plus, my way is death abuse.
Gameplay:
Here we deal with the good. First, fighting goons to spawn the bosses isn't perfect with a few missed kicks and some enemy blocks, but it's as well executed as one should expect. Secondly, but the most impressive, is the runner being able to keep the gang bosses in control in every fight. One slip-up or mistimed attack and it usually means game over.
There's a few shoddy elements with two standout moments. The worst is that the runner gets caught in the middle of a couple goons outside Rocco's warehouse while on his way to Turk (at 4:17 in the vid). Taking some damage and being knocked down here ate about six seconds. The other misplay was in the same area just before tackling Rocco himself. At 1:25, the runner jumps onto the wall to avoid enemies. In an instant, I saw what was going to happen before it occurred. I literally said out loud, "Oh, don't try and jump on top of the building! You'll never make it!!" Fail. It wastes only two or three seconds, but it's ugly. There's a few random hits while traversing from points A to B, but it's minimal time loss. Also, it's unfortunate that (R)Andy backtracked to pick up the thrown stick at the start of the twins fight since that wastes a few seconds, but the upside is that it means he can't block, either. Overall, from gameplay alone, I'd loosely guess there's about fifteen seconds of true mistakes / bad luck. That's not bad in a run that's just over ten minutes long.
There is a time saver the runner didn't use; I'm guessing he didn't know it existed. If one chooses Ryan instead of Alex as the character, Roxy's speech on the bridge is three pages shorter. That's five or six seconds saved alone. It's true that when the screen transitions from one area to the next, Ryan does appear a little lower than Alex would. That means with Ryan areas like Moose's construction site and outside Rocco's warehouse take about a half a second longer to cross. But it's still quicker overall. One other upside is that you get to see Roxy use the word "dink."
The above elements alone wouldn't be enough reason to reject the run. It's good. I really would have like to see the Dragon Twins taken on together, but I completely understand why they were separated. Beating the ten minute mark seems possible, but it would take some incredible luck & skill.
. . . HOWEVER . . .
One could argue that the run is TOO good. Part of the planning and execution was to buy a Lamb Leg. Using it grants a bunch of Will Power, which effectively turns a knockdown and death into a "second wind" and allows your character to keep fighting. I understand the inclusion of this purchase is for safety's sake; as I mentioned above, keeping gang bosses in control isn't as easy as it looks and not getting knocked down is difficult indeed.
The problem, though, is that from the time the Lamb Leg is used, the runner isn't ever knocked down, therefore rendering that purchase completely unnecessary in this run. If you add up all the time collecting money, purchasing the item, and then using it in the pause screen, that's about twenty seconds of irrefutably wasted time. It almost would have been better had the runner made a mistake somewhere and been knocked down; the run would be a few seconds longer, but at least there'd be a reason for having spent the time to buy the item. I can only assume the runner had never had success like he did in his recorded run, otherwise the item wouldn't have been purchased. Maybe the casual viewer wouldn't notice, but it's the absolute worst aspect of the entire run. . . to the point that the run is subject to rejection.
I spent a good 24 hours debating with myself, trying to decide my verdict. It wasn't until I reread the verification guidelines that I came up with my final decision. I quote from the "Quality (Gameplay)" section:
"SDA gameplay standards are high, but mistakes happen. If you feel that the run does not meet SDA standards and that adding the run will not spur others to beat it within a short period of time after it is posted, then tell Mike. The reputation of the site cannot be maintained if subpar runs are found on it."
Spur others to beat it. That's what determined my verdict. As I've said before, the run is good, to the point that it probably exceeded the runner's expectations. The presented run isn't 100% optimized now that the runner himself proved a Lamb Leg, while nice to have for safety, is unneeded. But can I say that the gameplay and planning is subpar to the point of rejection? No, I guess I can't. Will this run possibly spur others (or the original runner himself) to beat it? I surely think so. Would I be surprised if the other verifiers reject the run? . . . No. But I can't bring myself to do it. There's mistakes, but they didn't kill the run for me.
Verdict: Accept.
Video/Audio Quality:
Streamlined video and well-synched audio. No signs of tampering, editing, or modification.
Cheating:
Legitimate play throughout.
Planning/Route:
Looks pretty standard. The head gang members are defeated in order and the two purchased items are at logical times.
I did a little side testing to see if farming Generics in the first two areas to buy Dragon Feet is faster. Doing it this way allows you to death abuse outside Rocco's warehouse, which puts you a lot closer to Sherman Park & Blade. After trying a couple times, the runner was always a few seconds ahead. ...Plus, my way is death abuse.
Gameplay:
Here we deal with the good. First, fighting goons to spawn the bosses isn't perfect with a few missed kicks and some enemy blocks, but it's as well executed as one should expect. Secondly, but the most impressive, is the runner being able to keep the gang bosses in control in every fight. One slip-up or mistimed attack and it usually means game over.
There's a few shoddy elements with two standout moments. The worst is that the runner gets caught in the middle of a couple goons outside Rocco's warehouse while on his way to Turk (at 4:17 in the vid). Taking some damage and being knocked down here ate about six seconds. The other misplay was in the same area just before tackling Rocco himself. At 1:25, the runner jumps onto the wall to avoid enemies. In an instant, I saw what was going to happen before it occurred. I literally said out loud, "Oh, don't try and jump on top of the building! You'll never make it!!" Fail. It wastes only two or three seconds, but it's ugly. There's a few random hits while traversing from points A to B, but it's minimal time loss. Also, it's unfortunate that (R)Andy backtracked to pick up the thrown stick at the start of the twins fight since that wastes a few seconds, but the upside is that it means he can't block, either. Overall, from gameplay alone, I'd loosely guess there's about fifteen seconds of true mistakes / bad luck. That's not bad in a run that's just over ten minutes long.
There is a time saver the runner didn't use; I'm guessing he didn't know it existed. If one chooses Ryan instead of Alex as the character, Roxy's speech on the bridge is three pages shorter. That's five or six seconds saved alone. It's true that when the screen transitions from one area to the next, Ryan does appear a little lower than Alex would. That means with Ryan areas like Moose's construction site and outside Rocco's warehouse take about a half a second longer to cross. But it's still quicker overall. One other upside is that you get to see Roxy use the word "dink."
The above elements alone wouldn't be enough reason to reject the run. It's good. I really would have like to see the Dragon Twins taken on together, but I completely understand why they were separated. Beating the ten minute mark seems possible, but it would take some incredible luck & skill.
. . . HOWEVER . . .
One could argue that the run is TOO good. Part of the planning and execution was to buy a Lamb Leg. Using it grants a bunch of Will Power, which effectively turns a knockdown and death into a "second wind" and allows your character to keep fighting. I understand the inclusion of this purchase is for safety's sake; as I mentioned above, keeping gang bosses in control isn't as easy as it looks and not getting knocked down is difficult indeed.
The problem, though, is that from the time the Lamb Leg is used, the runner isn't ever knocked down, therefore rendering that purchase completely unnecessary in this run. If you add up all the time collecting money, purchasing the item, and then using it in the pause screen, that's about twenty seconds of irrefutably wasted time. It almost would have been better had the runner made a mistake somewhere and been knocked down; the run would be a few seconds longer, but at least there'd be a reason for having spent the time to buy the item. I can only assume the runner had never had success like he did in his recorded run, otherwise the item wouldn't have been purchased. Maybe the casual viewer wouldn't notice, but it's the absolute worst aspect of the entire run. . . to the point that the run is subject to rejection.
I spent a good 24 hours debating with myself, trying to decide my verdict. It wasn't until I reread the verification guidelines that I came up with my final decision. I quote from the "Quality (Gameplay)" section:
"SDA gameplay standards are high, but mistakes happen. If you feel that the run does not meet SDA standards and that adding the run will not spur others to beat it within a short period of time after it is posted, then tell Mike. The reputation of the site cannot be maintained if subpar runs are found on it."
Spur others to beat it. That's what determined my verdict. As I've said before, the run is good, to the point that it probably exceeded the runner's expectations. The presented run isn't 100% optimized now that the runner himself proved a Lamb Leg, while nice to have for safety, is unneeded. But can I say that the gameplay and planning is subpar to the point of rejection? No, I guess I can't. Will this run possibly spur others (or the original runner himself) to beat it? I surely think so. Would I be surprised if the other verifiers reject the run? . . . No. But I can't bring myself to do it. There's mistakes, but they didn't kill the run for me.
Verdict: Accept.
Quote:
Quality (Capture)
NES standard.
Quality (Gameplay)
- Skips the first boss (Moose).
- The reason he kills those thugs through the wall is to prevent two more from spawning, and in a position he’d need to backtrack for.
- Kind of walks into a wall on a box a bit too long before jumping to the upper level in the warehouse.
- Combos the hell out of Rocko to the point where he can’t even move.
- Blade doesn’t even get a chance to talk before falling to the Dragon Feet.
- Gets blindsided by the Jocks while entering a new screen and loses 5 seconds when they beat him down. All the luck he’s had so far with them had to come to an end sometime I guess.
- The 4 guys he has to kill before Turk shows up block some of his shots and chuck a weapon at him, but the gangs get tougher as you progress. He still does alright.
- Turk himself gets manhandled like the last few bosses have.
- Mojo’s thugs go way better than Turk’s did. You can probably guess what happens to Mojo.
- Ivan’s recovery is quite quick, but the runner has his timing down perfectly.
- The reason he gets the coins from the thugs on the last floor is that the game ties their full life to it. Grabbing the money ensures the next thugs(s) will appear quickly, instead of waiting for the money to take its sweet time to disappear.
- Oh man, that music can only mean one thing: the runner is going to need all the luck he can get and use every skill he has. The Dragon Twins are faster and more powerful than the damn last guy, and there’s two of them. The runner uses a glitch that allows him to fight one at a time. One screw-up and it’s over too, because he’s one hit away from death at this point (not that he can survive any of their powerful attacks with more non-upgraded health and stats anyway).
- Simon being a total bitch allows the runner to spam the “toss, Dragon Feet, repeat” strategy. Simon’s “evil power” may have given him more health, but it failed to give him any countering skills.
Timing
Alex starts to slide at 787 (00:13.130)
I can’t remember if you have control while Simon is talking after you beat him. Unless it's said otherwise…
Screen goes black (to queue the ending) at 38573 (10:43.526)
Overall time: 10:30.396
Importance
Whoever the hell the person was at Twin Galaxies that qualified the 34:04 (a time I would expect of a Youtube “Let’s Play” done by a child) as a “world record” clearly has no sense of standards should be fired immediately. This is SDA though, so enough of that. To start off, the runner doesn’t pick up any weapons by accident and have to drop or toss them. This is more important when you realize that they are all around him during fights. They’re slower than the Dragon Feet and allow the tougher thugs to counter. They will also block often anyway.
A lot of people might not realize that this game is quite random with the enemies, in both their behavior and placement. I’ve had times where I’ve entered another screen and lost half my health because there were bad guys there with weapons laying into me before I could react. This runner was wise hold up or down upon entering most new screens. Zipping through screen after screen while not stopping to attack and not actually being attacked is something that is a lot more difficult than it looks. And I’m not making excuses, because the runner manages to pull it off with a high success rate.
There are at least 10 seconds of time loss in this run that can be improved upon. In a game this tough and random, that may be a bit hard to do. I avoided calling them “mistakes” because those would be things the runner actually has control over and ends up making himself. There was one part where it actually was his fault (the warehouse wall), and I’m sure I’ll be scolded for not remembering the mechanics of that spot 100%. Finally, this guy went though this whole game on one health bar (that’s right, he didn’t stop to recover), and with only one fighting move upgrade. That alone is a pretty big achievement, but to speedrun it at the same time? Damn. It’s about time this game was put onto SDA, and this runner gave it one hell of a debut.
NES standard.
Quality (Gameplay)
- Skips the first boss (Moose).
- The reason he kills those thugs through the wall is to prevent two more from spawning, and in a position he’d need to backtrack for.
- Kind of walks into a wall on a box a bit too long before jumping to the upper level in the warehouse.
- Combos the hell out of Rocko to the point where he can’t even move.
- Blade doesn’t even get a chance to talk before falling to the Dragon Feet.
- Gets blindsided by the Jocks while entering a new screen and loses 5 seconds when they beat him down. All the luck he’s had so far with them had to come to an end sometime I guess.
- The 4 guys he has to kill before Turk shows up block some of his shots and chuck a weapon at him, but the gangs get tougher as you progress. He still does alright.
- Turk himself gets manhandled like the last few bosses have.
- Mojo’s thugs go way better than Turk’s did. You can probably guess what happens to Mojo.
- Ivan’s recovery is quite quick, but the runner has his timing down perfectly.
- The reason he gets the coins from the thugs on the last floor is that the game ties their full life to it. Grabbing the money ensures the next thugs(s) will appear quickly, instead of waiting for the money to take its sweet time to disappear.
- Oh man, that music can only mean one thing: the runner is going to need all the luck he can get and use every skill he has. The Dragon Twins are faster and more powerful than the damn last guy, and there’s two of them. The runner uses a glitch that allows him to fight one at a time. One screw-up and it’s over too, because he’s one hit away from death at this point (not that he can survive any of their powerful attacks with more non-upgraded health and stats anyway).
- Simon being a total bitch allows the runner to spam the “toss, Dragon Feet, repeat” strategy. Simon’s “evil power” may have given him more health, but it failed to give him any countering skills.
Timing
Alex starts to slide at 787 (00:13.130)
I can’t remember if you have control while Simon is talking after you beat him. Unless it's said otherwise…
Screen goes black (to queue the ending) at 38573 (10:43.526)
Overall time: 10:30.396
Importance
Whoever the hell the person was at Twin Galaxies that qualified the 34:04 (a time I would expect of a Youtube “Let’s Play” done by a child) as a “world record” clearly has no sense of standards should be fired immediately. This is SDA though, so enough of that. To start off, the runner doesn’t pick up any weapons by accident and have to drop or toss them. This is more important when you realize that they are all around him during fights. They’re slower than the Dragon Feet and allow the tougher thugs to counter. They will also block often anyway.
A lot of people might not realize that this game is quite random with the enemies, in both their behavior and placement. I’ve had times where I’ve entered another screen and lost half my health because there were bad guys there with weapons laying into me before I could react. This runner was wise hold up or down upon entering most new screens. Zipping through screen after screen while not stopping to attack and not actually being attacked is something that is a lot more difficult than it looks. And I’m not making excuses, because the runner manages to pull it off with a high success rate.
There are at least 10 seconds of time loss in this run that can be improved upon. In a game this tough and random, that may be a bit hard to do. I avoided calling them “mistakes” because those would be things the runner actually has control over and ends up making himself. There was one part where it actually was his fault (the warehouse wall), and I’m sure I’ll be scolded for not remembering the mechanics of that spot 100%. Finally, this guy went though this whole game on one health bar (that’s right, he didn’t stop to recover), and with only one fighting move upgrade. That alone is a pretty big achievement, but to speedrun it at the same time? Damn. It’s about time this game was put onto SDA, and this runner gave it one hell of a debut.
This verification counts as me and another guy because I forgot to save my logs of his real verification response.
Quote:
me: anyway, I'm on the fence myself
me: simply because of the lamb leg
verifier: Same
me: by the time he gets it he's almost out of life anyway
me: so it wouldn't help at all
me: I think I'll tell him I can accept it, but he should really consider redoing the run because of the lamb leg
verifier: good enough for me
me: simply because of the lamb leg
verifier: Same
me: by the time he gets it he's almost out of life anyway
me: so it wouldn't help at all
me: I think I'll tell him I can accept it, but he should really consider redoing the run because of the lamb leg
verifier: good enough for me
This is what the runner said when I questioned him about the lamb leg.
Quote:
Quote from mikwuyma:
When you finally bought the lamb leg, you only had 1 bar of life left. Anything that would have knocked you down probably would have killed you, rendering the lamb leg moot.
Wha? No, no... There seems to be a misunderstanding of game mechanics here that needs clearing up:
When i say that the lamb leg lets me recover from several knock-downs, i mean "several instances of losing all my stamina and being knocked down". Not just a regular knock-down. Will-power actually saves you from death. As you know, in the latter half of the game, just about anything that knocks you down will also do 3-6 bars of damage, so stamina is completely useless at this point (which is why i stock up on will-power instead of buying something that gives stamina). That is precisely why i buy the lamb leg. Insurance.
The lamb leg would indeed have saved me if somebody had knocked me down. Regardless of the amount of damage done. It is a cautious, but certainly not moot.
FYI: If i were to do another attempt at this run (or at the Advanced mode) i might try skipping the lamb-leg, which would greatly(!) increase the number of attempts needed to complete the game but save about 17-20 seconds. It's actually kind of ironic that in this run i didn't end up getting knocked down at all during the last part of the game. This was the first time it has ever happened to me, and it is a very rare occurrence.
Decision: Accept
Reason: Despite the lamb leg incident, the run is well-planned and has tight execution.
Thread title:
