Resident Evil 2 - March 31, 2014

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2014-03-31 06:34:35 pm

2014-03-13 10:55:18 pm

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ResidentEvil2.html

Resident Evil 2 (Any %) (Single Segment) (pal) (psx) [Character: Leon]

Decision: Reject

Reason: Despite having a faster IGT, it does not compare favorably to NTSC runs already on the site

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/838/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2014-03-13 10:55:21 pm

Run Information

Resident Evil 2 (Any %) (Single Segment) (pal) (psx) [Character: Leon]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/re2leonapal/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting. Verifications are due by March 27, 2014.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

After 2 weeks I will read all of the verifications and move this thread to the main verification board and post my verdict.

honorableJay

2014-03-23 05:09:59 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Does this run not have comments?

UraniumAnchor

2014-03-23 05:23:54 pm

Not a walrus

Not yet. Runner hasn't indicated whether they're providing any.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2014-03-26 01:11:54 pm

LotBlind: 2014-03-24 02:30:23 pm

2014-03-24 11:35:11 am

Turns out this game has WAY many platform/category combinations. Everything seems to affect the in-game timer. This is the other run I found in this exact category: http://recordsetter.com/world-record/beat-leons-first-scenario-without-infinite-rocket-launcher-resident-evil-2-ps/17717. The submission is indeed faster than it.

A/V: PS1 quality? Tiny static noise.

Running: Not "Carcinogen-level" slick. A few occasions of missing doorways slightly and fumbling for the correct item in the menu. However mostly perfectly good. By the run comments there was "a 20-second mistake" there somewhere but I couldn't tell where it happened. Two of the bosses (mostly the final one) looked like they could probably have went better but could also have been worse?

So it looks good enough for a
weak accept

honorableJay

2014-03-24 05:53:57 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Not sure how this will affect the decision, but it seems to have been encoded to NTSC resolution (320x240) but with a PAL framerate (25). I hope the source material isn't affected.

UraniumAnchor

2014-03-28 08:35:22 pm

Not a walrus

Can I get a bit more discussion on this one?

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2014-03-29 06:55:02 pm

honorableJay: 2014-03-29 02:27:49 pm

2014-03-29 08:30:57 am

The Dork Knight himself.

I'm going through the rest of this today, I'll let you know my thoughts when I'm done.

**Edit**
Ok, gonna need some clarification if anybody knows. Does the PAL version of RE2 time everything as if it was supposed to be running at 30fps? At the final escape, it takes 30 frames for the clock to countdown by 1 second instead of 25. The timing is also a lot lower than the actual running time. The last time I asked, I was told that the game timer counts loading times and movies, so playing on a different console with faster loading would actually lower the overall time at the end. Can someone re-confirm this?

As for the actual gameplay, this one is a bit borderline for me. There are a lot of small mistakes throughout, like bumping into things or difficulty in using a switch/grabbing an item/etc.

I'll update this after I go through the footage again for specifics.

***2nd Edit***
After going through and marking down everything, here are my results:

2:35 - bitten by 2 zombies
4:05 - stutter steps around enemies rather than running by
7:45 - late on cutscene skip (does it matter?)
9:50 - completes puzzle for gem instead of later, minor time loss? (need confirmation)
12:50 - grabbed by window zombie
13:35 - does not use quick chest scroll (minor time loss, easy trick)
17:30 - red herb pickup, needed?
18:10 - 2 zombie bites, combines herbs and uses
20:27 - menu fumble
21:45 - big menu fumble, followed by bad interaction, then proper menu
22:11 - bad interaction, not turned far enough (probably mashing?)
22:55 - zombie bite (same one as before)
23:47 - licker swipe (bad luck?)
24:50 - herb pickup (needed?)
26:00 - zombie bite, leads to herb use and herb pickup in next room
26:50 - after dog bite, accidental read of sign instead of door use (nerves?)
29:15 - another herb pickup (blue? why?)
38:43 - excessive herb pickups clutter inventory, combines and uses while in Fine status, then immediately picks up replacement green herb. If space was needed, blue herb could've been used by itself
39:45 - zombie bite
49:30 - red herb taken? why not the f.aid spray in the previous room? leads to lost menu time from combining red+green in next room
41:10 - didn't turn far enough, activated picture rather than picking up cog
41:35 - 2 zombie bites, leads to herb usage
54:40 - late cutscene skip?
56:38 - spider hit, avoidable?
57:35 - herb pickup, then early walk before second herb pickup, immediate herb combination
1:02:31 - difficulty lining up to place the medals, followed by incorrect item selection
1:05:25 - zombie bite, followed by one more in the next hall
1:06:00 - accidentally tries to grab the shotgun ammo rather than magnum ammo, then immediately grabs f.aid spray (not enough health items?)
1:07:05 - tries to combine ammo management with key usage, not lined up properly for key (what's up with the bad text?)
1:13:05 - forgets to insert fuse to restore power to facility, 20 second time loss according to submission notes
1:15:30 - a bit of hesitation trying to avoid the zombies, leads to a bite and herb usage
1:16:50 - bleeping lickers
1:18:35 - 2nd f.aid spray taken (prep for boss?)
1:25:50 - gets trapped in the corner by the boss, leading to a lot of damage taken (both f.aid sprays used, only 1 needed?)

A lot of these are borderline nitpicking, but the health management along with zombie avoidance seems a bit sub-par to me considering what I've seen other runners accomplish. The biggest offender being the constant herb pickup/combining that wastes a lot of menu time and gives the appearance of not really being planned.

I'll wait for more discussion before I render my verdict.

I'm going through the rest of this today, I'll let you know my thoughts when I'm done.

**Edit**
Ok, gonna need some clarification if anybody knows. Does the PAL version of RE2 time everything as if it was supposed to be running at 30fps? At the final escape, it takes 30 frames for the clock to countdown by 1 second instead of 25. The timing is also a lot lower than the actual running time. The last time I asked, I was told that the game timer counts loading times and movies, so playing on a different console with faster loading would actually lower the overall time at the end. Can someone re-confirm this?

As for the actual gameplay, this one is a bit borderline for me. There are a lot of small mistakes throughout, like bumping into things or difficulty in using a switch/grabbing an item/etc.

I'll update this after I go through the footage again for specifics.

***2nd Edit***
After going through and marking down everything, here are my results:

2:35 - bitten by 2 zombies
4:05 - stutter steps around enemies rather than running by
7:45 - late on cutscene skip (does it matter?)
9:50 - completes puzzle for gem instead of later, minor time loss? (need confirmation)
12:50 - grabbed by window zombie
13:35 - does not use quick chest scroll (minor time loss, easy trick)
17:30 - red herb pickup, needed?
18:10 - 2 zombie bites, combines herbs and uses
20:27 - menu fumble
21:45 - big menu fumble, followed by bad interaction, then proper menu
22:11 - bad interaction, not turned far enough (probably mashing?)
22:55 - zombie bite (same one as before)
23:47 - licker swipe (bad luck?)
24:50 - herb pickup (needed?)
26:00 - zombie bite, leads to herb use and herb pickup in next room
26:50 - after dog bite, accidental read of sign instead of door use (nerves?)
29:15 - another herb pickup (blue? why?)
38:43 - excessive herb pickups clutter inventory, combines and uses while in Fine status, then immediately picks up replacement green herb. If space was needed, blue herb could've been used by itself
39:45 - zombie bite
49:30 - red herb taken? why not the f.aid spray in the previous room? leads to lost menu time from combining red+green in next room
41:10 - didn't turn far enough, activated picture rather than picking up cog
41:35 - 2 zombie bites, leads to herb usage
54:40 - late cutscene skip?
56:38 - spider hit, avoidable?
57:35 - herb pickup, then early walk before second herb pickup, immediate herb combination
1:02:31 - difficulty lining up to place the medals, followed by incorrect item selection
1:05:25 - zombie bite, followed by one more in the next hall
1:06:00 - accidentally tries to grab the shotgun ammo rather than magnum ammo, then immediately grabs f.aid spray (not enough health items?)
1:07:05 - tries to combine ammo management with key usage, not lined up properly for key (what's up with the bad text?)
1:13:05 - forgets to insert fuse to restore power to facility, 20 second time loss according to submission notes
1:15:30 - a bit of hesitation trying to avoid the zombies, leads to a bite and herb usage
1:16:50 - bleeping lickers
1:18:35 - 2nd f.aid spray taken (prep for boss?)
1:25:50 - gets trapped in the corner by the boss, leading to a lot of damage taken (both f.aid sprays used, only 1 needed?)

A lot of these are borderline nitpicking, but the health management along with zombie avoidance seems a bit sub-par to me considering what I've seen other runners accomplish. The biggest offender being the constant herb pickup/combining that wastes a lot of menu time and gives the appearance of not really being planned.

I'll wait for more discussion before I render my verdict.

ahuynh

Edit history:

ahuynh: 2014-03-30 08:20:40 pm

2014-03-30 07:57:29 pm

If you compare this run to other RE2 runs, you will notice the gameplay is slower, because in order to get the game to run at 25 fps, it just runs slower. Timing, however, counts the number of frames. In this game, it would be 30 frames is one second instead of 25 frames for one second. This is why the gameplay runs longer than the actual time played.

honorableJay

2014-03-30 09:25:47 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Yeah that's what I figured, a 30fps game just slowed down to 25fps. One thing that is weird though is the in-game cutscenes play out faster to compensate for running at 25fps.

LotBlind

2014-03-31 11:13:33 am

If anyone could confirm that there's excessive healing item pickups or he had better alternatives for that, it might turn my verdict into a weak reject instead. Is it "good" to get trapped in the corner by the final boss, as in does it guarantee it doesn't run off anywhere? I see a similar strategy in this old one:

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2014-03-31 01:28:56 pm

honorableJay: 2014-03-31 01:27:32 pm

2014-03-31 01:09:50 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

The most healing items you should have in your inventory is 1 f.aid spray at every point in the game except for the end boss. The constant need to grab health items is from not avoiding zombies and constantly taking damage. There are a few that I let slide due to the difficulty in avoiding the hits, but a lot he simply ran into. And when it comes to the healing item usage, rather than waiting until his health was in Danger (when your running speed is actually slowed down) he was using them the second he went into Caution, which is playing things way too safe (borderline marathon safe). The excessive pickups eventually clutters his inventory so much that he has to use them up to clear enough space for quest items (which is then immediately followed by another pickup, 38:43 in the video, check my notes).

For the end boss, getting stuck in the corner might have been his strategy, but it didn't really go all that well. It would help figure out the runner's thought process and why he did certain things if we had actual run comments, but until the runner gives us any feedback the most I can do is guess.

**Edit**
Another thing I just remembered: the runner stated that this run beats Carcinogen's old run (1:14:18 IGT) but he forgot to submit it. However, Carcinogen himself has already beaten his older run (verification thread can be found here). Excluding the load times affecting the IGT, his newer run shows more polish and better strategies throughout (and it's the only run I can use right now to compare play quality).

The most healing items you should have in your inventory is 1 f.aid spray at every point in the game except for the end boss. The constant need to grab health items is from not avoiding zombies and constantly taking damage. There are a few that I let slide due to the difficulty in avoiding the hits, but a lot he simply ran into. And when it comes to the healing item usage, rather than waiting until his health was in Danger (when your running speed is actually slowed down) he was using them the second he went into Caution, which is playing things way too safe (borderline marathon safe). The excessive pickups eventually clutters his inventory so much that he has to use them up to clear enough space for quest items (which is then immediately followed by another pickup, 38:43 in the video, check my notes).

For the end boss, getting stuck in the corner might have been his strategy, but it didn't really go all that well. It would help figure out the runner's thought process and why he did certain things if we had actual run comments, but until the runner gives us any feedback the most I can do is guess.

**Edit**
Another thing I just remembered: the runner stated that this run beats Carcinogen's old run (1:14:18 IGT) but he forgot to submit it. However, Carcinogen himself has already beaten his older run (verification thread can be found [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/resident_evil_2__december_9_2013.html]here[/url]). Excluding the load times affecting the IGT, his newer run shows more polish and better strategies throughout (and it's the only run I can use right now to compare play quality).

LotBlind

2014-03-31 01:34:52 pm

Thanks Jay for showing up here! It helps a lot when someone knows WTF they're talking about to put it bluntly.

Sounds like we have reasons to reject this then... That's a lot of stuff that's come up and my own ideas about how much zombie-avoiding you can do in this game based on the various speed runs I've come to verify here in public corroborates the fact. No run comments is the runner's problem in my view.

ahuynh

2014-03-31 01:45:12 pm

In that case, it is clear that this is simply its own category. Though the issue is that there is Carcinogen's run on PSP, which gains a huge advantage of being loaded from a memory card and has faster loading times. You can tell in the run if you compare the two because the pauses between camera angle changes are enough to be noticeable if you pay attention.

I would lean towards rejecting this run. I don't see a problem in having two runs of the same category but different consoles if both runs are similarly good. But Carcinogen's run is clearly a better run. I dont know about how it compares to the Japanese Leon A run though.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2014-03-31 04:15:45 pm

honorableJay: 2014-03-31 04:15:12 pm

2014-03-31 04:13:59 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

I just finished going through the Japanese Leon A run, and this PAL submission doesn't have the same level of execution. The only reason I can see the PAL run having a lower IGT is simply from the cutscenes playing way faster. Considering how many of them there are throughout the game, PAL gains anywhere from 2 seconds up to 5 seconds (maybe more on the longer cutscenes).

Just as an example, I did some frame timing on the last two cutscenes before the end sequence, specifically the scene with Annette Birkin (where she takes a pipe to the head) and the following one with Ada (where she "dies").

PAL:
Annette end - 2219
Ada end - 3533

JPN:
Annette end - 2699
Ada end - 4255

Diff:
Annette - 480 / 30 = 16s
Ada - 722 / 30 = 24.06s

Remember, the PAL version times as if it's running at 30fps, not 25. Going just by these two cutscenes it should be possible, so long as the gameplay quality is improved, to shave at least 1 to 3 minutes off of this time. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to Reject this run. I hate having to do this, and I do know this would be a new category on the site, but the quality of gameplay is far inferior to what is already on the site and the version difference alone is the reason the time is better.

I just finished going through the Japanese Leon A run, and this PAL submission doesn't have the same level of execution. The only reason I can see the PAL run having a lower IGT is simply from the cutscenes playing way faster. Considering how many of them there are throughout the game, PAL gains anywhere from 2 seconds up to 5 seconds (maybe more on the longer cutscenes).

Just as an example, I did some frame timing on the last two cutscenes before the end sequence, specifically the scene with Annette Birkin (where she takes a pipe to the head) and the following one with Ada (where she "dies").

PAL:
Annette end - 2219
Ada end - 3533

JPN:
Annette end - 2699
Ada end - 4255

Diff:
Annette - 480 / 30 = 16s
Ada - 722 / 30 = 24.06s

Remember, the PAL version times as if it's running at 30fps, not 25. Going just by these two cutscenes it should be possible, so long as the gameplay quality is improved, to shave at least 1 to 3 minutes off of this time. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to [b]Reject[/b] this run. I hate having to do this, and I do know this would be a new category on the site, but the quality of gameplay is far inferior to what is already on the site and the version difference alone is the reason the time is better.

SDAVerification

2014-03-31 06:35:08 pm

Decision posted.