Rabi-Ribi - July 25, 2017

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2017-07-25 11:47:54 am

2017-07-11 02:50:54 pm

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/RabiRibi.html

Rabi-Ribi () (pc) [Low %] [Single Segment] [Casual] [Post Game]

Decision: Accept

Reason: Improvement over a recently submitted run. The other run will be canceled.

Congratulations to 'triblast55'!

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2017-07-11 02:50:54 pm

Run Information

Rabi-Ribi () (pc) [Low %] [Single Segment] [Casual] [Post Game]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/rabiribi-20170701/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

LotBlind

2017-07-18 12:39:37 pm

Looks like I should get on this soon myself...

LotBlind

2017-07-22 08:49:31 am

What determines which extra buffs you can get from the town? I assume you have to have defeated the related boss? How about why don't you get more than 3 before 1:34?

How exactly does the EN work? Looks like you buy a cocoa bomb using it?

I assume you can only destroy walls at preset locations?

Why is your magic regen faster sometimes and slower at others? I noticed this during the Miriam fight.

34:00 - klutch fite here...
47:17 - This jump: I wonder if getting a little running jump wouldn't help with consistency? Doesn't look THAT bad to be in any case. Or is it supposed to be safer if you come from below? In any case this is totally your own fault, also when you get hit and lose even more time.
1:03:00 - This death looks kinda avoidable. You're e.g. taking damage from an attack that's clearly been charging up for seconds at 1:03:11.
1:04:02 - Did you time this attack to avoid the damage? That's thinking on your feet!
1:12:45 - What's the idea with areas like this? Looks like you have to fight everything once to make progress but can ignore it after respawns?
1:23:50 - What's this detour about?
1:41:00 - This healing detour looks like you could probably have avoided it.
1:41:39 - More completely unforced damage...
1:43:20 - What is draining Seana's hp here?
1:45:20 - How does this work?
1:47:26 - I see one of the three white attacks keeps missing. It looks like by turning around you should be able to manipulate the fairy to stay in the same position for all three of them. Is there any particular reason you keep using the less damaging attack as well?
1:51:24 - More unenforced damage.
1:55:25 - Why don't you use this fairy ability in every fight?
1:56:40 - Here you should obviously have waited for the attack and timed the usage of your own attack better like you do the next time around.
1:56:50 - Could have survived had you stayed where you were? Also can you manipulate them to aim their attacks behind you instead by e.g. walking backwards at the right time?
1:57:15 - If you take this hit a lot, either shooting at the right flower a few times after the ability as you pass or just waiting for it? Probably better than walking off on 14 hp and having to farm (unless you'd have wanted to do that for the EN?).
1:57:24 - Here it looks like you don't have a good idea of how much damage one of these enemies will take? BTW: I'm frame advancing to count how much you're hitting them for but at 1:57:18 you can hear three attacks but the damage number only pops up for two of them. Is the missing damage still inflicted? If so, you hit the first enemy for 270. I think they have 240 hp so should have started the charge attack earlier. Also which even has the greater DPS: normal attacks or charging? Is there a limit to how often you can fire a charge shot? Actually I see that you lose your whole mana bar for that.
1:59:10 - Can't you use wall jumping to get to the TP a bit faster? Or didn't I see you having some kind of air somersaulting ability at one point that threw you even further?
2:01:28 - What happens here exactly?
2:05:05 - I noticed you lose charge attacks to them colliding with the terrain... There must be a safe way to shoot them though? Maybe you could have waited a little bit more or even jump to the low ceiling before shooting. I feel these are avoidable also... Also I can tell you don't have a clue how many times you have to shoot the flower even though I'm assuming your attack power doesn't vary between attempts?
2:05:16 - If the last enemy hadn't jumped, could you have made it? What the heck is this death about? Looks like you could never have cleared it... Are you trying to damage boost off the first enemy to get the invulnerability? You even had one of your orb attacks left... Looks like you're losing a minute or so to this.
2:06:04 - So that's what you were trying to do...
2:06:33 - Can't you jump over them at all?
2:07:47 - aaanndd the enemy had exactly 1hp left when you started the charge attack Smiley

At least you didn't charge it fully. Some key enemy types that you know you'll be killing a lot you have to practise estimating the damage. Looks like 12 normal attacks and one fully charged (97 damage) one should be the aim. If you use fairy attacks, you can roughly count one fairy triple attack as one normal attack (range of 12-18). Although looks like maybe the 97 is actually a crit?
2:07:55 - Why didn't you just jump up when the enemy dropped down? The damage you took from her was unenforced because you can clearly hear when they've used that attack and you had enough time to react to it IMO.
2:07:20 - So you've dealt all the damage so far on the one on the left but then you're turning back expecting the one on the right to die? Again, more time lost (and it just looks ugly) to lack of mindfulness.
2:09:05 - So if your goal here was to kill her, you didn't. If you goal was to pass her by, you should not have kept attacking her seeing as that kept knocking her back. I don't quite understand...
2:09:14 - I don't know how you could have made it past here but this was an obviously hopeless try.
2:11:20 - Why does the enemy take so much damage here?
2:12:36 - Why did I know you had no more items left but you didn't?
2:12:59 - Why do you have to check your inventory AGAIN here?
2:22:00 - Could you have landed the charge attack by walljumping or is she too high up? I guess she had a chance of falling back down before it became a moot point.
2:26:03 - I think the way you're timing the super attacks is slightly off in this boss rush. I'm pretty sure the plan can be improved on: emphasize bosses that hover high up or have attacks or phases during which they can't be hurt, for example Syaro here looked like you just wasted ten seconds cause you let her start that attack. I know there might be randomness involved but I just don't get the impression you even have a good plan. On this occasion I don't think you could have finished Syaro off even having used the two supers. And I also know you're using them a lot against attacks that are difficult to dodge.
2:27:40 - Have you ever tried jumping with the enemies? If the jumps always happen in twos or threes and they're evenly paced like this, there's certainly a timing that allows you to land an extra shot each time like Mega Man runners do.
2:31:10 - Here you have a full super bar for a really long time. I know it's hard to keep track of this but on this occasion you had plenty of time to plan ahead when you were moving down the hall. You even stopped to charge it up as if you knew you were gonna need it.
2:32:07 - Wow, what a troll from the devs... Can't wall jump over it then?
2:34:25 - Again, I can't quite see what you're doing in town for so long: are some of the ability-givers missing? Is it random who's around? In any case seeing as you ended up looking for them left and right of the TP, you should only have saved the game after doing everything on the left side first seeing as the save point is on the right side so there's no back and forth. Does saving while having buffs save the buffs too? Does saving without them not?
2:36:50 - That rainbow attack looked like, at least on this occasion, it might have been dodgeable if you stood right next to her actually. At least as dodgeable as it gets. Do you ever do video analysis from your runs or practice sessions? It's a way to be really efficient in finding better strats. At 2:37:28 because you know they alternate between homing and orthogonal, this was supposed to be super-easy to dodge by standing between the red and blue squares, assuming the low dots will fly over your head. Not saying it cost you time to use your supers here, just as an example.
2:38:34 - Again, looks more like an afterthought that you wanted to kill this mouse.
2:43:57 - Need I point out this looks like you were improing again?
2:44:11 - Why did you need to fall here? Mistake? Why aren't you even shooting the wall any earlier? I think you can clear this screen with one damage boost if you do that around the vertical lasers.
2:45:48 - Good idea to use the fairy's super here but couldn't you have used it earlier?
2:47:34 - Even though you can't really react to whether you've cleared this kind of close situation, whether or not you've taken a hit it's best to go underneath the cube, Just another heuristic of the kind you could at least try to look for.
2:52:37 - 100% your own fault...
2:53:23 - What?
3:00:00 - Are there literally some pixels you stand on to dodge some of those attacks?

Did you use the boss rush to practise those separately by any chance or does it not give you the option to select individual fights? It's the kind of game that I know from experience will see all kinds of improvements someday. It's the way deaths tend to lose you so much time so a deathless run will automatically be the best time too. It's the way your gauge builds up so you save all the more time the better you get at dodging stuff. I felt like there were lots of attacks in there that there WILL be someone out there who can learn how to avoid them consistently. Illusion seems to be one of the stumbling blocks. I'm sure you could just park yourself right before the fight (deliberately die before finishing her off if the game autosaves after boss fights) and keep drilling it. Or just focus solely on dodging attacks and see how long you can last. This is also why I see the segmented run making more sense to start with cause you can't get a clean single-segment run anyway without enough reps on each part.

There's also some hesitation in town sometimes. I can't tell if the runner has to improvize depending on their current EN or whatever situation. Actually I initially failed to notice that getting buffs ALSO costs you money. That makes more sense then.

There's some missed charged-up attacks. I think sometimes these were missed on bosses that were just about to jump. Maybe it's impossible to predict when they'll do that exactly but getting closer to them before firing reduces the odds of missing.

I've written very detailed notes because I don't like this run and I want to see all kinds of time-savers implemented. There are too many moments where stuff happens that doesn't really look like it needed to happen. You've chosen a difficult game and a difficult category with a lot of stuff to memorize. It's a somewhat philosophical question and one of protocol: are we supposed to go easy on you if your game is particularly tough? My answer is a firm "no". This is because not every run SHOULD be as easy to complete a decent enough run in. It's pragmatism as well: we often have to judge by looks here. It's not a terrible run, you've put in some effort, but I don't think it does the game or the category justice as it is. I think you've been too focused on avoiding deaths and getting RNG or whatever (like so many runners) but at the end of the day, even a completely deathless run will come, but long before that time you have to have sorted out more of the basic planning that will give you consistently cleaner and faster runs. That boring stuff. Nothing glamorous about it. Just more testing everywhere.

I'm going to assume you've got less overall experience with the post-game part because that's where a lot of the mistakes were. That would corroborate my theory that you've been emphasizing just getting one good run too much. In any case looks like some people already accepted the previous run (be honest: did their verificiations help your growth as a runner?) so we might have to accept this as an improvement. If I were in your shoes I'd cancel both of them and consider what you can take from all my notes and anything else you can think of. All runs, especially of this length, that are submitted in a state like this are a waste not only of the SDA staff's time (I've got runs I could be working on too!) but ultimately of yours too. Not to mention the viewers... how many different runs do they really wanna see?

BTW: these notes are also lengthy because you didn't include even simple notes. So blame yourself.

What determines which extra buffs you can get from the town? I assume you have to have defeated the related boss? How about why don't you get more than 3 before 1:34?

How exactly does the EN work? Looks like you buy a cocoa bomb using it?

I assume you can only destroy walls at preset locations?

Why is your magic regen faster sometimes and slower at others? I noticed this during the Miriam fight.

34:00 - klutch fite here...
47:17 - This jump: I wonder if getting a little running jump wouldn't help with consistency? Doesn't look THAT bad to be in any case. Or is it supposed to be safer if you come from below? In any case this is totally your own fault, also when you get hit and lose even more time.
1:03:00 - This death looks kinda avoidable. You're e.g. taking damage from an attack that's clearly been charging up for seconds at 1:03:11.
1:04:02 - Did you time this attack to avoid the damage? That's thinking on your feet!
1:12:45 - What's the idea with areas like this? Looks like you have to fight everything once to make progress but can ignore it after respawns?
1:23:50 - What's this detour about?
1:41:00 - This healing detour looks like you could probably have avoided it.
1:41:39 - More completely unforced damage...
1:43:20 - What is draining Seana's hp here?
1:45:20 - How does this work?
1:47:26 - I see one of the three white attacks keeps missing. It looks like by turning around you should be able to manipulate the fairy to stay in the same position for all three of them. Is there any particular reason you keep using the less damaging attack as well?
1:51:24 - More unenforced damage.
1:55:25 - Why don't you use this fairy ability in every fight?
1:56:40 - Here you should obviously have waited for the attack and timed the usage of your own attack better like you do the next time around.
1:56:50 - Could have survived had you stayed where you were? Also can you manipulate them to aim their attacks behind you instead by e.g. walking backwards at the right time?
1:57:15 - If you take this hit a lot, either shooting at the right flower a few times after the ability as you pass or just waiting for it? Probably better than walking off on 14 hp and having to farm (unless you'd have wanted to do that for the EN?).
1:57:24 - Here it looks like you don't have a good idea of how much damage one of these enemies will take? BTW: I'm frame advancing to count how much you're hitting them for but at 1:57:18 you can hear three attacks but the damage number only pops up for two of them. Is the missing damage still inflicted? If so, you hit the first enemy for 270. I think they have 240 hp so should have started the charge attack earlier. Also which even has the greater DPS: normal attacks or charging? Is there a limit to how often you can fire a charge shot? Actually I see that you lose your whole mana bar for that.
1:59:10 - Can't you use wall jumping to get to the TP a bit faster? Or didn't I see you having some kind of air somersaulting ability at one point that threw you even further?
2:01:28 - What happens here exactly?
2:05:05 - I noticed you lose charge attacks to them colliding with the terrain... There must be a safe way to shoot them though? Maybe you could have waited a little bit more or even jump to the low ceiling before shooting. I feel these are avoidable also... Also I can tell you don't have a clue how many times you have to shoot the flower even though I'm assuming your attack power doesn't vary between attempts?
2:05:16 - If the last enemy hadn't jumped, could you have made it? What the heck is this death about? Looks like you could never have cleared it... Are you trying to damage boost off the first enemy to get the invulnerability? You even had one of your orb attacks left... Looks like you're losing a minute or so to this.
2:06:04 - So that's what you were trying to do...
2:06:33 - Can't you jump over them at all?
2:07:47 - aaanndd the enemy had exactly 1hp left when you started the charge attack :) At least you didn't charge it fully. Some key enemy types that you know you'll be killing a lot you have to practise estimating the damage. Looks like  12 normal attacks and one fully charged (97 damage) one should be the aim. If you use fairy attacks, you can roughly count one fairy triple attack as one normal attack (range of 12-18). Although looks like maybe the 97 is actually a crit?
2:07:55 - Why didn't you just jump up when the enemy dropped down? The damage you took from her was unenforced because you can clearly hear when they've used that attack and you had enough time to react to it IMO.
2:07:20 - So you've dealt all the damage so far on the one on the left but then you're turning back expecting the one on the right to die? Again, more time lost (and it just looks ugly) to lack of mindfulness.
2:09:05 - So if your goal here was to kill her, you didn't. If you goal was to pass her by, you should not have kept attacking her seeing as that kept knocking her back. I don't quite understand...
2:09:14 - I don't know how you could have made it past here but this was an obviously hopeless try.
2:11:20 - Why does the enemy take so much damage here?
2:12:36 - Why did I know you had no more items left but you didn't?
2:12:59 - Why do you have to check your inventory AGAIN here?
2:22:00 - Could you have landed the charge attack by walljumping or is she too high up? I guess she had a chance of falling back down before it became a moot point.
2:26:03 - I think the way you're timing the super attacks is slightly off in this boss rush. I'm pretty sure the plan can be improved on: emphasize bosses that hover high up or have attacks or phases during which they can't be hurt, for example Syaro here looked like you just wasted ten seconds cause you let her start that attack. I know there might be randomness involved but I just don't get the impression you even have a good plan. On this occasion I don't think you could have finished Syaro off even having used the two supers. And I also know you're using them a lot against attacks that are difficult to dodge.
2:27:40 - Have you ever tried jumping with the enemies? If the jumps always happen in twos or threes and they're evenly paced like this, there's certainly a timing that allows you to land an extra shot each time like Mega Man runners do.
2:31:10 - Here you have a full super bar for a really long time. I know it's hard to keep track of this but on this occasion you had plenty of time to plan ahead when you were moving down the hall. You even stopped to charge it up as if you knew you were gonna need it.
2:32:07 - Wow, what a troll from the devs... Can't wall jump over it then?
2:34:25 - Again, I can't quite see what you're doing in town for so long: are some of the ability-givers missing? Is it random who's around? In any case seeing as you ended up looking for them left and right of the TP, you should only have saved the game after doing everything on the left side first seeing as the save point is on the right side so there's no back and forth. Does saving while having buffs save the buffs too? Does saving without them not?
2:36:50 - That rainbow attack looked like, at least on this occasion, it might have been dodgeable if you stood right next to her actually. At least as dodgeable as it gets. Do you ever do video analysis from your runs or practice sessions? It's a way to be really efficient in finding better strats. At 2:37:28 because you know they alternate between homing and orthogonal, this was supposed to be super-easy to dodge by standing between the red and blue squares, assuming the low dots will fly over your head. Not saying it cost you time to use your supers here, just as an example.
2:38:34 - Again, looks more like an afterthought that you wanted to kill this mouse.
2:43:57 - Need I point out this looks like you were improing again?
2:44:11 - Why did you need to fall here? Mistake? Why aren't you even shooting the wall any earlier? I think you can clear this screen with one damage boost if you do that around the vertical lasers.
2:45:48 - Good idea to use the fairy's super here but couldn't you have used it earlier?
2:47:34 - Even though you can't really react to whether you've cleared this kind of close situation, whether or not you've taken a hit it's best to go underneath the cube, Just another heuristic of the kind you could at least try to look for.
2:52:37 - 100% your own fault...
2:53:23 - What?
3:00:00 - Are there literally some pixels you stand on to dodge some of those attacks?

Did you use the boss rush to practise those separately by any chance or does it not give you the option to select individual fights? It's the kind of game that I know from experience will see all kinds of improvements someday. It's the way deaths tend to lose you so much time so a deathless run will automatically be the best time too. It's the way your gauge builds up so you save all the more time the better you get at dodging stuff. I felt like there were lots of attacks in there that there WILL be someone out there who can learn how to avoid them consistently. Illusion seems to be one of the stumbling blocks. I'm sure you could just park yourself right before the fight (deliberately die before finishing her off if the game autosaves after boss fights) and keep drilling it. Or just focus solely on dodging attacks and see how long you can last. This is also why I see the segmented run making more sense to start with cause you can't get a clean single-segment run anyway without enough reps on each part.

There's also some hesitation in town sometimes. I can't tell if the runner has to improvize depending on their current EN or whatever situation. Actually I initially failed to notice that getting buffs ALSO costs you money. That makes more sense then.

There's some missed charged-up attacks. I think sometimes these were missed on bosses that were just about to jump. Maybe it's impossible to predict when they'll do that exactly but getting closer to them before firing reduces the odds of missing.

I've written very detailed notes because I don't like this run and I want to see all kinds of time-savers implemented. There are too many moments where stuff happens that doesn't really look like it needed to happen. You've chosen a difficult game and a difficult category with a lot of stuff to memorize. It's a somewhat philosophical question and one of protocol: are we supposed to go easy on you if your game is particularly tough? My answer is a firm "no". This is because not every run SHOULD be as easy to complete a decent enough run in. It's pragmatism as well: we often have to judge by looks here. It's not a terrible run, you've put in some effort, but I don't think it does the game or the category justice as it is. I think you've been too focused on avoiding deaths and getting RNG or whatever (like so many runners) but at the end of the day, even a completely deathless run will come, but long before that time you have to have sorted out more of the basic planning that will give you consistently cleaner and faster runs. That boring stuff. Nothing glamorous about it. Just more testing everywhere.

I'm going to assume you've got less overall experience with the post-game part because that's where a lot of the mistakes were. That would corroborate my theory that you've been emphasizing just getting one good run too much. In any case looks like some people already accepted the previous run (be honest: did their verificiations help your growth as a runner?) so we might have to accept this as an improvement. If I were in your shoes I'd cancel both of them and consider what you can take from all my notes and anything else you can think of. All runs, especially of this length, that are submitted in a state like this are a waste not only of the SDA staff's time (I've got runs I could be working on too!) but ultimately of yours too. Not to mention the viewers... how many different runs do they really wanna see?

BTW: these notes are also lengthy because you didn't include even simple notes. So blame yourself.

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:10:19 pm

2017-07-22 03:05:43 pm

Buffs are determined by which defeated bosses are in town. There are none in town at 1:34

EN is money gained from defeating enemies and bosses. It’s used to purchase consumables like cocoa bombs, buy buffs, and I think 280 is needed to fire a charged rainbow egg.

Yes, destroyable walls are at preset locations.

MP regenerates at a fixed rate, but the HP & MP amount increases as the story progresses and town members increases.

47:17 – This jump tends to be awkward to pull off due to the position.
1:03:00 – I thought that I had bad luck here
1:12:45 – It’s a strange quirk with the autosaving in this game. The game for some reason respawns them even if they were defeated. But only keeps track on whether or not the mini-bosses are still alive.
1:23:50 – This is needed to have Cocoa spawn, otherwise she won’t be there if I don’t go down there.
1:41:00 – I found this to be mandatory, since enemies here do a lot of damage here even with buffs and mobility is very crippled when underwater.
1:43:20 – Most of Seana’s health drains automatically because its an endurance fight
1:45:20 – Since ribbon is knocked out for this fight, Erina is essentially unarmed for this fight. Miru’s health is noticable lower during a 0% run.
1:47:26 – This is just an unfortunate quirk when firing diagonally. Also, I don’t understand issue here? Uncharged regular shots are doing 7 damage, compared to uncharged rainbow shots doing 3 damage.
1:55:25 – I wanted the combo meter to be at max, to do the extra 40% damage.
1:56:50 – I thought this was bad luck
1:57:15 – There was a health pad later on, to recover that damage
1:57:24 – I was making sure I didn’t get killed again from that. It depends on the situation for which DPS is better. The charged rainbow egg requires the full mana bar.
1:59:10 – That would result in getting shot by the flower or landing in it.
2:01:28 – The game requires a loop around once, before progressing
2:05:05 & 2:05:16 – I was trying to activate the bunny amulet during the last part, but for some reason it didn’t activate during those times
2:06:33 – I needed more health for the later parts and didn’t want to get damaged from them
2:07:55 - I didn’t want the later two enemies to be on screen, resulting in three of them attacking
2:07:20 – I thought that was a minor goof.
2:09:05 & 2:09:14 – The goal here was waiting for the bunny amulet to recharge for the later parts, I was attacking her to build up the BP meter
2:11:20 – That was unexpected, and I don’t know why she took so much damage so fast
2:12:36 & 2:12:59 – I wanted to double check that I had the right amount, in practice runs I sometimes had one less that I needed and didn’t notice it until much later on. I wanted to prevent that.
2:22:00 – I guess there wasn’t enough time to do so.
2:26:03 - I wanted to make sure I had enough resources for each fight, I didn’t want to spend too much for one, and have not enough for another.
2:27:40 – It seems like the bosses jump whenever they want to, making it random at times.
2:31:10 – I wanted to have it available just in case, to avoid a projectile hit, because getting hit by a projectile during this fight causes an MP drop resulting in attacks being disabled and the fight being stalled.
2:32:07 – The devs really wanted to troll players.
2:34:25 – The town members spawn in a random part of the town. They can be close by, or on the other side of the town. Saving while having buffs does save the buffs
2:36:50 – I don’t think the Rumi fight can be sped up or even slowed down. It feels like its scripted, so getting hit during this battle doesn’t really matter much.
2:38:34 – I was killing time for the buffs to wear off. A buff cannot be purchased if the current one is still on.
2:44:11 – Jumping would result in hitting the low ceiling, so I wall jumped
2:45:48 – It was needed to kill the later enemies on the next screen faster
2:52:37 – I thought it was a simple goof
2:53:23 – Not sure what you are asking
3:00:00 – For some of them anyways.

The boss rush doesn’t allow the option to select individual fights. I did single segment since that was what all the other runners did, and I have literally never seen anyone do a segmented speedrun of this before. What I’m guessing, is that it would be very difficult to make sure that things are consistent between saves, I guess that’s why no one ever bothered with that.

Some bosses jump whenever they want to. It is really obnoxious and random at times.

The post-game part has more issues because enemies cause significantly higher damage and the general lack of mobility and resources due to having 0% items.
0% items means no air dashing, no double jumping, no sliding, very limited attacking power, lack of the healing staff, higher vulnerability to crippling MP debuffs, and many other things.

I don’t think I’ll be having many different runs for viewers to see. This one was sent because I managed to find a better early game route and managed to remove the 2-3 minute money grind in the previous run. Overall, I thought cutting down 14 minutes from the previous was significant.

As for previous verification, it did inform me of using cocoa bombs during the final battle which might be useful for other categories.

Buffs are determined by which defeated bosses are in town. There are none in town at 1:34

EN is money gained from defeating enemies and bosses. It’s used to purchase consumables like cocoa bombs, buy buffs, and I think 280 is needed to fire a charged rainbow egg.

Yes, destroyable walls are at preset locations.

MP regenerates at a fixed rate, but the HP & MP amount increases as the story progresses and town members increases.

47:17 – This jump tends to be awkward to pull off due to the position.
1:03:00 – I thought that I had bad luck here
1:12:45 – It’s a strange quirk with the autosaving in this game. The game for some reason respawns them even if they were defeated. But only keeps track on whether or not the mini-bosses are still alive.
1:23:50 – This is needed to have Cocoa spawn, otherwise she won’t be there if I don’t go down there.
1:41:00 – I found this to be mandatory, since enemies here do a lot of damage here even with buffs and mobility is very crippled when underwater.
1:43:20 – Most of Seana’s health drains automatically because its an endurance fight
1:45:20 – Since ribbon is knocked out for this fight, Erina is essentially unarmed for this fight. Miru’s health is noticable lower during a 0% run.
1:47:26 – This is just an unfortunate quirk when firing diagonally. Also, I don’t understand issue here? Uncharged regular shots are doing 7 damage, compared to uncharged rainbow shots doing 3 damage.
1:55:25 – I wanted the combo meter to be at max, to do the extra 40% damage.
1:56:50 – I thought this was bad luck
1:57:15 – There was a health pad later on, to recover that damage
1:57:24 – I was making sure I didn’t get killed again from that. It depends on the situation for which DPS is better. The charged rainbow egg requires the full mana bar.
1:59:10 – That would result in getting shot by the flower or landing in it.
2:01:28 – The game requires a loop around once, before progressing
2:05:05 & 2:05:16 – I was trying to activate the bunny amulet during the last part, but for some reason it didn’t activate during those times 
2:06:33 – I needed  more health for the later parts and didn’t want to get damaged from them
2:07:55 - I didn’t want the later two enemies to be on screen, resulting in three of them attacking
2:07:20 – I thought that was a minor goof.
2:09:05 & 2:09:14 – The goal here was waiting for the bunny amulet to recharge for the later parts, I was attacking her to build up the BP meter
2:11:20 – That was unexpected, and I don’t know why she took so much damage so fast
2:12:36 & 2:12:59 – I wanted to double check that I had the right amount, in practice runs I sometimes had one less that I needed and didn’t notice it until much later on. I wanted to prevent that.
2:22:00 – I guess there wasn’t enough time to do so.
2:26:03 - I wanted to make sure I had enough resources for each fight, I didn’t want to spend too much for one, and have not enough for another.
2:27:40 – It seems like the bosses jump whenever they want to, making it random at times.
2:31:10 – I wanted to have it available just in case, to avoid a projectile hit, because getting hit by a projectile during this fight causes an MP drop resulting in attacks being disabled and the fight being stalled.
2:32:07 – The devs really wanted to troll players.
2:34:25 – The town members spawn in a random part of the town. They can be close by, or on the other side of the town. Saving while having buffs does save the buffs
2:36:50 – I don’t think the Rumi fight can be sped up or even slowed down. It feels like its scripted, so getting hit during this battle doesn’t really matter much.
2:38:34 – I was killing time for the buffs to wear off. A buff cannot be purchased if the current one is still on.
2:44:11 – Jumping would result in hitting the low ceiling, so I wall jumped
2:45:48 – It was needed to kill the later enemies on the next screen faster
2:52:37 – I thought it was a simple goof
2:53:23 – Not sure what you are asking
3:00:00 – For some of them anyways.

The boss rush doesn’t allow the option to select individual fights. I did single segment since that was what all the other runners did, and I have literally never seen anyone do a segmented speedrun of this before. What I’m guessing, is that it would be very difficult to make sure that things are consistent between saves, I guess that’s why no one ever bothered with that.

Some bosses jump whenever they want to. It is really obnoxious and random at times.

The post-game part has more issues because enemies cause significantly higher damage and the general lack of mobility and resources due to having 0% items. 
0% items means no air dashing, no double jumping, no sliding, very limited attacking power, lack of the healing staff, higher vulnerability to crippling MP debuffs, and many other things.

I don’t think I’ll be having many different runs for viewers to see. This one was sent because I managed to find a better early game route and managed to remove the 2-3 minute money grind in the previous run. Overall, I thought cutting down 14 minutes from the previous was significant.

As for previous verification, it did inform me of using cocoa bombs during the final battle which might be useful for other categories.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2017-07-23 06:13:22 am

2017-07-23 06:11:59 am

Magic regen: I think it's actually a condition the enemy attack was inflicting on you to have slower regen in the Miriam fight sometimes.

Additional question: I think enemies are mostly in preset locations? The same part of each screen? This is based on that one time when you reset a screen by going back to the previous one. If so I'll know there's no real good or bad RNG when it comes to that even though there may be regarding how some of them will behave. Speaking of which, looks like most of them are pretty deterministic in the sense that they start their attacks once you've gotten close enough to them/given them line of sight. How about them moving around? I think you got both bad luck and good luck in various situations throughout the run. You definitely have a wrong conception of how much of it is luck though.

47:17 - The way you're setting it up makes it look like you're not moving at your full speed.
1:03:00 - Nope, watched it again now and you're clearly just making mistakes. You're not even trying to dodge the charging yellow attack I mentioned. The situation in the corner at 1:02:39... if you try to pass underneath her while she's leaping, she will land you on right? Or can you squeeze through if she's high up enough? In hindsight, your best bet might have been to leap over her right after she landed. This is another thing you can easily learn to do, just takes more mindful practice. At 1:02:53 looks like you didn't really need to use the super attack to save yourself. It might depend on how high up she is again but she's basically at the top of her arc so if I'm right, that's another thing you can easily learn.
1:41:00 - What I'm saying is you took a lot of unfortunate damage around 1:40:20 to put yourself in that situation. I can only describe the cause as "terrible movement". If you're saying the area that comes after is too dangerous even if you're on full health, I can at least see that the extra super was going to be helpful but I still think you could have avoided more of the damage, at 1:41:28 for example looks like you just needed to not jump (unless that's what caused her attack to be a high one). I can't tell how risky what you're doing with the rest of it really is.
1:47:26 - I'm saying it looks like you could have used more regular shots.
1:55:25 - I think you answered this question by saying it costs EN.
1:59:10 - You're talking about something else there. There's no flower here.
2:05:15 - I see, that's unfortunate but it's still a huge time loss.
2:07:20 - Yeah it's minor but it's symptomatic... and avoidable.
2:07:55 - Right, I forgot they have that big yellow laser attack that they can do from a distance. I guess that's the one you were afraid of?
2:09:05 - Okay, I see then. This is exactly the kind of stuff run comments would be great for... it would have helped both of us immensely.
2:11:20 - Do you think the game might have something similar to the Final Fantasy VII "lucky sevens" where damage dealt is set to 7777 if the character attacking has that exact amount of health? You should HONESTLY know a little bit more about your game. I just don't think this can possibly have been the first time this has happened to someone. This is also the reason a centralized pool of information such as SDA's strategy wiki is great, so no-one misses potential tricks. Who knows if there's a way to exploit this more?
2:12:36 - "In practice runs I had one less" sounds like you need more practice runs then! Smiley

There's a few different things to keep track of but I don't think it's that many. I remember the first time I saw SoliduzZnake running one of his games, The Godfather (currently in verification in fact), he used to pop the map up a lot to remember where to go in the big city. I pointed out that it makes the run look unpolished. In your case having to check your items this much has the same effect.
2:31:10 - Okay, that makes more sense then.
2:34:25 - I think I'm correct in saying you need to save only after checking the left side then. If you only save after picking up all the buffs, you'll even save time if you have to retry something.
2:38:34 - Okay, makes sense. That's a really strange way to code a game btw...
2:44:11 - I don't quite understand. The ceiling in the part that you destroy looks as high as the rest of it. Even if you can't clear it just by jumping, can't you wall jump before you've fallen all the way?
2:52:37 - This loses you SO MUCH TIME. You just don't remember which screen you're about to enter it looks like and then don't react in time. Simple perhaps but very ugly.
2:53:23 - Are you saying you intended to take this damage? If you bounce up the bounce pad, can't you get to the same place you're going anyway? I don't think it loses you time in this case but doesn't it make it more dangerous?

Segmented runs: I guess I meant in general segmented runs make sense to start with for the reason I outlined. Why are you saying it's difficult to make sure saves are consistent? If either the autosaving can be disabled (probably not) or if you can make back-up copies and overwrite them, it should be doable just for the record. I know in some games such clumsy methods actually have to be used. Or is there more to it?

"I thought cutting down 14 minutes was significant": You're missing my point here - I wouldn't have accepted the previous run either (if it had as many movement etc. mistakes) and no-one actually cares how much time you've saved from your PB, especially when it just means your previous route was bad. Or if your PB is a WR in a category no-one's run seriously. Even if you said the same thing about a run that was long since published, it's pretty irrelevant if most of the time save comes from new routes and strategies. It might still not make it a better run. A better route, yes, but not necessarily a better run. It's a blessing and a curse to have verifiers around cause whether it's our fault or theirs, new verifiers, especially if they don't run the same game on a sufficiently high level, tend to be scared of pointing out mistakes and actually looking for areas of improvement. I know this isn't your first run on SDA but I'm willing to guess you haven't specifically played too many 2D platformers? I'm just not quite as impressed as more casual players tend to be. There's games where you die instantly from everything with stupidly precise movement being a requirement.

I don't think the post-game looks bad because of the reasons you've outlined but there were more movement mistakes as well.

So yeah, despite your thankfully quite comprehensive reply that casts certain moments and decisions in better light, I still would like to see a cleaner run.. and I can't agree if someone tells me it wouldn't be easy to do. As I pointed out, fights and different parts of the game can be grinded out by resetting right before you get to the next autosave. It's just practice and even learning a few more tricks for how to consistently avoid certain attacks from each boss makes each run consistenly faster. So much faster. I've seen it time and time again. It's a moot point though since we've already accepted the previous run.

Magic regen: I think it's actually a condition the enemy attack was inflicting on you to have slower regen in the Miriam fight sometimes.

Additional question: I think enemies are mostly in preset locations? The same part of each screen? This is based on that one time when you reset a screen by going back to the previous one. If so I'll know there's no real good or bad RNG when it comes to that even though there may be regarding how some of them will behave. Speaking of which, looks like most of them are pretty deterministic in the sense that they start their attacks once you've gotten close enough to them/given them line of sight. How about them moving around? I think you got both bad luck and good luck in various situations throughout the run. You definitely have a wrong conception of how much of it is luck though.

47:17 - The way you're setting it up makes it look like you're not moving at your full speed.
1:03:00 - Nope, watched it again now and you're clearly just making mistakes. You're not even trying to dodge the charging yellow attack I mentioned. The situation in the corner at 1:02:39... if you try to pass underneath her while she's leaping, she will land you on right? Or can you squeeze through if she's high up enough? In hindsight, your best bet might have been to leap over her right after she landed. This is another thing you can easily learn to do, just takes more mindful practice. At 1:02:53 looks like you didn't really need to use the super attack to save yourself. It might depend on how high up she is again but she's basically at the top of her arc so if I'm right, that's another thing you can easily learn.
1:41:00 - What I'm saying is you took a lot of unfortunate damage around 1:40:20 to put yourself in that situation. I can only describe the cause as "terrible movement". If you're saying the area that comes after is too dangerous even if you're on full health, I can at least see that the extra super was going to be helpful but I still think you could have avoided more of the damage, at 1:41:28 for example looks like you just needed to not jump (unless that's what caused her attack to be a high one). I can't tell how risky what you're doing with the rest of it really is.
1:47:26 - I'm saying it looks like you could have used more regular shots.
1:55:25 - I think you answered this question by saying it costs EN.
1:59:10 - You're talking about something else there. There's no flower here.
2:05:15 - I see, that's unfortunate but it's still a huge time loss.
2:07:20 - Yeah it's minor but it's symptomatic... and avoidable.
2:07:55 - Right, I forgot they have that big yellow laser attack that they can do from a distance. I guess that's the one you were afraid of?
2:09:05 - Okay, I see then. This is exactly the kind of stuff run comments would be great for... it would have helped both of us immensely.
2:11:20 - Do you think the game might have something similar to the Final Fantasy VII "lucky sevens" where damage dealt is set to 7777 if the character attacking has that exact amount of health? You should HONESTLY know a little bit more about your game. I just don't think this can possibly have been the first time this has happened to someone. This is also the reason a centralized pool of information such as SDA's strategy wiki is great, so no-one misses potential tricks. Who knows if there's a way to exploit this more?
2:12:36 - "In practice runs I had one less" sounds like you need more practice runs then! :) There's a few different things to keep track of but I don't think it's that many. I remember the first time I saw SoliduzZnake running one of his games, The Godfather (currently in verification in fact), he used to pop the map up a lot to remember where to go in the big city. I pointed out that it makes the run look unpolished. In your case having to check your items this much has the same effect.
2:31:10 - Okay, that makes more sense then.
2:34:25 - I think I'm correct in saying you need to save only after checking the left side then. If you only save after picking up all the buffs, you'll even save time if you have to retry something.
2:38:34 - Okay, makes sense. That's a really strange way to code a game btw...
2:44:11 - I don't quite understand. The ceiling in the part that you destroy looks as high as the rest of it. Even if you can't clear it just by jumping, can't you wall jump before you've fallen all the way?
2:52:37 - This loses you SO MUCH TIME. You just don't remember which screen you're about to enter it looks like and then don't react in time. Simple perhaps but very ugly.
2:53:23 - Are you saying you intended to take this damage? If you bounce up the bounce pad, can't you get to the same place you're going anyway? I don't think it loses you time in this case but doesn't it make it more dangerous?

Segmented runs: I guess I meant in general segmented runs make sense to start with for the reason I outlined. Why are you saying it's difficult to make sure saves are consistent? If either the autosaving can be disabled (probably not) or if you can make back-up copies and overwrite them, it should be doable just for the record. I know in some games such clumsy methods actually have to be used. Or is there more to it?

"I thought cutting down 14 minutes was significant": You're missing my point here - I wouldn't have accepted the previous run either (if it had as many movement etc. mistakes) and no-one actually cares how much time you've saved from your PB, especially when it just means your previous route was bad. Or if your PB is a WR in a category no-one's run seriously. Even if you said the same thing about a run that was long since published, it's pretty irrelevant if most of the time save comes from new routes and strategies. It might still not make it a better run. A better route, yes, but not necessarily a better run. It's a blessing and a curse to have verifiers around cause whether it's our fault or theirs, new verifiers, especially if they don't run the same game on a sufficiently high level, tend to be scared of pointing out mistakes and actually looking for areas of improvement. I know this isn't your first run on SDA but I'm willing to guess you haven't specifically played too many 2D platformers? I'm just not quite as impressed as more casual players tend to be. There's games where you die instantly from everything with stupidly precise movement being a requirement.

I don't think the post-game looks bad because of the reasons you've outlined but there were more movement mistakes as well.

So yeah, despite your thankfully quite comprehensive reply that casts certain moments and decisions in better light, I still would like to see a cleaner run.. and I can't agree if someone tells me it wouldn't be easy to do. As I pointed out, fights and different parts of the game can be grinded out by resetting right before you get to the next autosave. It's just practice and even learning a few more tricks for how to consistently avoid certain attacks from each boss makes each run consistenly faster. So much faster. I've seen it time and time again. It's a moot point though since we've already accepted the previous run.

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:10:28 pm

2017-07-24 08:46:44 am

I don’t know what you mean by “PB”. Also, I never claimed that this is a World Record.

Quote:

It's a blessing and a curse to have verifiers around cause whether it's our fault or theirs, new verifiers, especially if they don't run the same game on a sufficiently high level, tend to be scared of pointing out mistakes and actually looking for areas of improvement

One verifier did point out that the run could have a better solution for the money grind, which I managed to find a way to remove it.

The previous verifiers did not say the old one was a waste of time. So why does sending in an improvement suddenly result in being told that this is wasting SDA’s time and then being told to cancel both runs? If I did not send this one in, would the previous one still end up being canceled?

LotBlind

2017-07-24 09:15:53 am

You said "Overall, I thought cutting down 14 minutes from the previous was significant." but such statements don't mean anything because they're entirely relative to how good the previous run was. PB means personal best. I was talking in general about SDA's policies when I mentioned WRs.

Yes, the verifier pointed out ONE major (as I understand) mistake, but the very fact that you submitted that run without having looked more into it is enough of a clue that run wasn't even as ready as this one is.

We don't cancel runs, we can only reject them. It's up to you to do (or not to do) that. As I said, if I was in your shoes, I'd do that. That's me being honest about what I would do if these were my runs, nothing more. Obviously if this gets accepted (and inevitably it will if you don't cancel it since the last one was accepted), you should probably cancel the previous one so we don't have to process that one too. That would be nice unless you really really wanna see that one get published before this? I don't understand why you would, thus I'm assuming you will do this.

"The previous verifiers did not say the old one was a waste of time. So why does sending in an improvement suddenly result in being told that this is wasting SDA’s time and then being told to cancel both runs?" Some verifiers tend to be far too lenient, to the point of ignoring the verification guidelines (they've been right there the whole time). Be honest with yourself: can either of these runs be said to have met the requirements outlined there? So, yes, any run that doesn't meet these criteria is sort of wasting everyone's time. Of course we understand new runners won't have a good picture of what sort of quality we're expecting, and in fact the bar has been rising over the years. The only benefit from me having devoted all this time to watch your run is if you or someone else looks at these comments and actually works on all the problems. At that point it's not wasted. The run, of course, serves as a point of reference whether or not it's submitted on SDA.

You said "Overall, I thought cutting down 14 minutes from the previous was significant." but such statements don't mean anything because they're entirely relative to how good the previous run was. PB means personal best. I was talking in general about SDA's policies when I mentioned WRs.

Yes, the verifier pointed out ONE major (as I understand) mistake, but the very fact that you submitted that run without having looked more into it is enough of a clue that run wasn't even as ready as this one is.

We don't cancel runs, we can only reject them. It's up to you to do (or not to do) that. As I said, if I was in your shoes, I'd do that. That's me being honest about what I would do if these were my runs, nothing more. Obviously if this gets accepted (and inevitably it will if you don't cancel it since the last one was accepted), you should probably cancel the previous one so we don't have to process that one too. That would be nice unless you really really wanna see that one get published before this? I don't understand why you would, thus I'm assuming you will do this.

"The previous verifiers did not say the old one was a waste of time. So why does sending in an improvement suddenly result in being told that this is wasting SDA’s time and then being told to cancel both runs?" Some verifiers tend to be far too lenient, to the point of ignoring the [url=https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Verification_Guidelines]verification guidelines[/url] (they've been right there the whole time). Be honest with yourself: can either of these runs be said to have met the requirements outlined there? So, yes, any run that doesn't meet these criteria is sort of wasting everyone's time. Of course we understand new runners won't have a good picture of what sort of quality we're expecting, and in fact the bar has been rising over the years. The only benefit from me having devoted all this time to watch your run is if you or someone else looks at these comments and actually works on all the problems. At that point it's not wasted. The run, of course, serves as a point of reference whether or not it's submitted on SDA.

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:10:46 pm

2017-07-24 03:44:19 pm

I’ll cancel one of them once the decision is made on this one

I do believe that both runs meet the requirement. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered to send them in if I did not think they were good enough.

SDAVerification

2017-07-25 11:47:56 am

Decision posted.

VanillaFudge

2017-10-01 02:08:42 am

There are like 10 minutes lost to deaths in this run. This is probably the worst run I've seen posted on SDA in 10+ years. I understand this is an improvement and thus is basically an auto-pass, but if this was a 14 minute improvement how could the previous run have possibly passed verification?

I don't blame the runner. He just sent in his PB with good video quality. It should be up to SDA to decline this because it doesn't meet the standard.

burningsteel

Edit history:

burningsteel: 2017-10-01 04:40:07 pm

burningsteel: 2017-10-01 04:00:22 pm

burningsteel: 2017-10-01 03:43:30 pm

2017-10-01 03:42:40 pm

Soulless Killing Machine

This is a difficult run, so maybe try this as a segmented using real time? Might get a more ideal time without having to deal with rng. I enjoyed this run, especially seeing someone beat it with 0.0%. Did not even think it was possible considering how you do not even have double jump. I guess the main problem is that this single segment is not really ready for prime time. The way I see the runs on this site is that they are fairly close to ideal for a human playing the game. The wall jumping done here is quite impressive, and having misses on that which is considered a hidden technique is completely acceptable. The route also looks quite optimized. The main problem is the deaths, and avoidable damage. Damage taken from moves you cannot even avoid is fine and it is even amusing because it highlights the difficulty of the category.

ktwo

2017-10-02 01:49:14 pm

VanillaFudge, sorry to hear that the run didn't live up to your expectations. The standards for an accept have not changed in any significant way lately. However, the more feedback a run gets in verification, the more likely that areas of improvement are spotted.
There is always an open invitation to participate in verification, which is a way to help the site out. New runs will be posted for verification tomorrow.