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ktwo: 2021-02-14 09:51:34 am
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

'ktwo's PAL run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
ktwo is quickly becoming one of my favorite runners. It's a real delight to see such optimized and well-planned runs for all those obscure NES games

Also, I love how I always write down a couple of questions regarding possible improvements as I'm watching his runs for the first time, and every single time I find out he's already answered all of them in his comments, heh. Stop being so thoughtful you magnificent bastard!

Accept


Quote:
This run is well played and well planned, but there's one major flaw. After watching this run, I watched the TAS for comparison. The TAS uses wall jumps, most notably in level 5 as seen 11 minutes into this video:



I wondered how feasible this trick was on a console, so I tried it out and I managed to do it after maybe 2 minutes. After a few more minutes of practice, I could do it on a regular basis. Not every time, but usually within 10-15 seconds. It shouldn't be too hard to master. You have to jump through the last block (normally you would hit your head), and when your foot is right in the corner, press left and jump.

This can cut out a large portion of level 5. Playing normally, it takes a while to walk all the way around. If the runner had used this trick, even if it took 15 seconds to do, it would still save around 90 seconds. I have to reject it because of that.

Also, I wonder if picking up the power suit in level 4 as in the TAS would save any time? It only takes a couple of seconds. I guess it might be hard to not get hit since taking damage saves time a lot in this game.

Decision: reject


I asked the first verifier about the trick after I told him about it and this is what he said:

Quote:
Verifier: alright, I just messed around with that trick in power blade, it can be done more reliably than I thought at first and it does save about a minute and a half
Verifier: I'm still willing to accept it since it's a really good run otherwise
me: pal version too?
Verifier: yup, just tried it


Quote:
Power Blade (NES) Expert Run Verification


Both audio and video quality pass, and there is no cheating.


Sector 1
Only minor execution mistakes in this sector, like not jump-canceling the attack animation here and there.
Also, cool (unintentional?) damage boost at 1:07.

Sector 6
Solid run through the sector, with some good damage boosting.
Here is one of the bosses that actually have to be fought, and he goes down fast enough.

Sector 5
About the grenade usage at 8:52. Wtf. Item manipulation maybe? You did get another one right afterward, which means the one I'm mentioning could have been used more optimally elsewhere? Or it didn't make any difference?
Putting that and some random missed boomerang throws aside (the latter accounting for very little time lost anyway), execution is fine throughout.

Sector 4
"TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS! EVERYDAY!". Seriously though, sector well done.
In particular, the runner breezes through the moving platform part, and I know how much of a pain it can be to do so without stopping like that.

Sector 3
Good sector, good execution, again.
No complaints on the boss strategy either. It is true that this boss fight is luck reliant, and with some better luck it could have been done faster.

Sector 2
Easily the sector where the most time is lost in the run. Other than the obvious burger-jump mistake (which is not major), precious seconds are lost in the crusher part, due to poor damage boosting.

Sector 7
Other than the mistake with the frog and 1 or 2 hiccups, I'm pleased with how the last sector is taken care of.


Following the TAS route exactly would mean starting with sectors 2-3, getting power blade suit in sector 4 and keeping it all the way to the end. Doing this would clearly yield improvements in the bosses of sectors 6 and 7, but not getting more than 2 damage (since you lose the power blade suit with 3 damage) from the middle of sector 4 on does sound like a stretch to me.
So, in general (for all sectors), I agree with the planning: it's more or less the TAS route and I think the adjustments made (regarding which enemies to take out where) minimize time lost to the TAS.
Therefore, I find that both the good planning and execution outweigh the bad in this run, so it's an accept vote from me.


Decision: Accept

Reason: Another tight run of an underrated NES game from ktwo!
Thread title:  
Edit history:
spacoina: 2010-08-01 04:24:09 am
3rd verifier here.

I feel like an idiot now because I did notice that wall jump trick on the TAS, but I dismissed it thinking "TAS-only" and didn't even try it. Just tried it myself right now too and yeah, it does work, and on PAL too.

But, like verifier 1 said, the run is still solid. If ktwo is up for improving this with the wall jumps though, then that would be awesome Smiley
Mike contaced me about what verifyer 2 had found and I also replied. Mike didn't include it in the initial post, but it's nothing secret and I assume at least the verifiers could be interested in it :

Quote from ktwo_to_mikwuyma:
I had actually tried out the wall jump when planning the run, but never gotten it to work, so I concluded it was a tas-trick only. I can now confirm it's possible to do on console as well. So thanks to the verifyer for finding that. I made a youtube clip to demonstrate the method that works best for me ( I managed to wall jump 4 times in a little over 3 minutes. I've done this a couple of times now and this is definitely not the best I can do. But doing it consistently in 10-15 seconds is at least beyond my skill set (unless there is a better way to do it of course). No matter what, it's for sure faster in average to wall jump in level 5 than taking the normal route though. The problem is that even getting the wall jump to work within 10 seconds would look pretty ugly imo. If wall jumps are required for getting a Power Blade run accepted then I guess future speedrun attempts have to start on level 5. That way, the wall jump will come as early as possible in the run. Good luck to anyone trying that ! (definitely not on top of my list of priorities)

Oh, I almost forgot. The verifyer also wondered about the power blade suit. In a console speedrun, I timed the detour in level 4 to be around 5 seconds. Since I don't think you need to stop that much in the levels without it, the main benefit comes from the level 6 and especially the level 7 boss fights. Unfortunately, you lose the suit after three hits and I haven't found a way to inflict two hits per round on the first form of the level 7 boss without the character taking damage. If that problem could be solved, then I think the power blade suit should at least be taken into consideration (should roughly save 5-10 seconds but it would also crank up the difficulty a notch).

Thanks for the feedback.


To be honest, I would have withdrew the submission if I had any plans on improving it with the wall jump. But truth be told, I got seriously sick of speedrunning this game. I would not have been upset if the run was rejected (and I would not have redone either). I'm still glad it was accepted though and I hope the old-school fans can enjoy it despite lacking the wall jump and having some questionable execution here and there.


Quote from Verifyer3:
Sector 5
About the grenade usage at 8:52. Wtf. Item manipulation maybe? You did get another one right afterward, which means the one I'm mentioning could have been used more optimally elsewhere? Or it didn't make any difference?

As was stated in the comments that came with the run, the items drops are pre-determined (depending roughly on the number of enemies destroyed). This specific usage is now of academic interest since this part would be skipped by the wall jump. After the run was made, I found a good way to get past the pink spider with only boomerangs and a better place to use the grenade would for example be on the three diagonally placed bullet towers in stage 4, which would save ~2 seconds. But again, this is now of pure academic interest...
Don't MAKE me come down these stairs
I own this game and I haven't played it for quite some time, but I just noticed....

That guy is really not moving very fast for how hard he's trying. Christ, look at how high his knees are getting! He should be going twice the speed!