Pokemon Yellow Single Segment

2008-12-02 09:58:49 pm

Back in the game!

Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I could not find anything via the search option.

Anyhow, I'm going to try to do this with Pikachu. I think I've got brock figured out: Catch a "high" leveled pidgey (or pidgeotto if I'm real lucky) and sand attack brock's geodude, and then again on onix. Catch a ratatta for an extra tail whipper (also for cut later, as these two will cover cut/fly). Then 6 tail whips on each of the rocks, followed up by pikachu's quick attack.

If anyone can think of a faster way to do this portion (with pikachu/pikachu and some help) please let me know

I'm outside of Mt Moon in my first test run, and post brock, it's pretty smooth sailing so far.

Thread title:

Thomaz

2008-12-02 11:48:48 pm

Catchin' them all

I truely advice you to use Nidoking instead. Remember how Geodude can use Defense Curl? It would ruin the Tail Whips.

Also, Onix would Bind you to death probably lol.

FractalFusion

2008-12-03 02:05:21 am

Thomaz, when you say Nidoking, are you referring to the trainer-fly glitch?

Using trainer-fly glitch + underflow experience is definitely the best way to go, unless UltimateDarius is trying a non-glitched run.

Especially in a single segment.

SP

2008-12-03 03:58:59 am

Or just catch a M. Nidoran early? They're quite common.

Nidoking truly is a useful Pokemon. Way higher stats than Pikachu and you can get a more varied moveset (it can learn Surf, Thunderbolt, Dig etc.) You should really consider using it in the run.

gia

2008-12-03 10:40:37 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

There's mankey too or am i remembering g/s, i know ponyta is g/s

UltimateDarius

2008-12-03 12:08:30 pm

Back in the game!

I've given Brock's gym about 5 test runs, and each time he's focused on trying to kill me rather than defend himself. Onix's bind is mildly annoying, if he hits with it, but pidgey at level 8 is faster, and on top of me sand attacking, he usually screeches first.

I do like the concept of Nidoking, but he has even more weaknesses than Pika, minus the double team capability (unless he can learn it via TM?)...in a single segment, I'm really afraid to try using him.

This is supposed to be a non-glitched run.

Mankey might be a good idea though.

I think I need to have 6 pokemon by the time I enter rock tunnel, because the hikers like to make their geodudes and that one graveller self destruct, and it would just be easier to have other pokes die than hope that double team makes it miss me.

gia

2008-12-03 12:33:10 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

This is yellow not battletoads only trouble spots should be the rival battles and elite four, double team is wasting time and yeah everyone learns it, nido is a better choice for glitchless and misty will give you bubblebeam for the hikers

SP

Edit history:

SP: 2008-12-03 01:10:03 pm

2008-12-03 01:03:36 pm

Yep, use bubblebeam and then overide it with surf once you get it, you should be able to OHKO anything hikers throw at you.

Also you really shouldn't run into any problems with Nidoking... definitely nothing run-killing, and he'll be much faster than Pikachu overall.

Look at Nidoking's weaknesses:

Ground (use surf / bubblebeam)
Water (Use thunderbolt after Surge, shouldn't really be a problem with Misty)
Ice (Mostly crosses over with water so not a problem)
Psychic (only one that *might* be an issue, but by the time you get that far you should be high enough level that it won't make a difference.)

I really think you should use Nidoking Wink

DTaeKim

2008-12-03 04:20:15 pm

Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs. In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round. Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks. If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil. Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one. It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking. It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one. It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking. In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses. You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one. It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs. However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.

Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs.  In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round.  Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks.  If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil.  Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one.  It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking.  It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one.  It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking.  In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses.  You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one.  It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs.  However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.

UltimateDarius

2008-12-03 05:19:40 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from DTaeKim:

Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs. In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round. Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks. If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil. Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one. It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking. It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one. It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking. In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses. You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one. It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs. However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.

First one sounds good.

2nd one...can he survive hydro pump after an x-special? Or am I better off abusing double team?

3rd one: is this taking into consideration x-defend?

4th was pretty self-explanatory.

What about Sabrina's gym? isn't that one difficult?

[quote="DTaeKim"]
Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs.  In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round.  Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks.  If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil.  Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one.  It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking.  It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one.  It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking.  In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses.  You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one.  It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs.  However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.
[/quote]

First one sounds good.

2nd one...can he survive hydro pump after an x-special?  Or am I better off abusing double team?

3rd one:  is this taking into consideration x-defend?

4th was pretty self-explanatory.

What about Sabrina's gym?  isn't that one difficult?

DTaeKim

2008-12-03 05:50:38 pm

I don't know if Nidoking can survive Hydro Pump after an X-Special because I never tried. With segmenting, you can hope for the miss instead.

Same goes for Sandslash. I never tried using X-Defend to turn it into a 3HKO, if it does that at all.

Sabrina is a joke because Abra can't attack. I used Abra to set up the sweep with the X-items. The only possible way Sabrina can muck it up is by using an X-Defend, which turns the OHKO with Earthquake into a 2HKO. You also need an X-Speed, and probably a heal somewhere or an Elixir because you are running off 3 PP for Earthquake.

DoubleThink

2008-12-03 06:20:47 pm

There's a word for that

I agree with the whole Nidoking > Pikachu thing, since while Nidoking does have a few more weaknesses, Pikachu's defenses are only slightly thicker than paper, and it lacks any serious power outside of Thunderbolt due to its low offenses. Mankey is an interesting choice, but it doesn't evolve until Lv28, and never learns any better Fighting moves than Low Kick or Karate Chop (aside from Submission, which has recoil). I'd think Pikachu would be more useful in a FR/LG run because then you can catch it with a Light Ball >_>
X Specials should work fine for decreasing Special damage, since in R/B/Y it all runs off the same stat anyway.

gia

2008-12-03 07:03:30 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I tested sandslash and dugtrio for someone else that was running this and told him to bring a flying growler(s) (fearow at route 23) and growl once, then when it was nidoking's turn use x defend to make it a 3hko under certain lvl/iv conditions, it works like using sand attack then double team instead of doing only one of them twice, i dont recall if it was 1-1 or 2-1 to make it 3hko or if that depended on ivs, its somewhere on the forums.

I didn't suggest sa or dt because they take more turns and you don't lose the chance of getting screwed, you are supposed to reset many times anyway, but nothing stops you from using one or the other or a mix, I even recall an strategy using toxic (to buy a turn). The growler could also stay around a bit longer if he is allowed, to reduce Nidokings exposition.

SP

2008-12-04 08:26:38 am

Quote from DTaeKim:

Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs. In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round. Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks. If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil. Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one. It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking. It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one. It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking. In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses. You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one. It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs. However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.

Surely surf should OHKO Dugtrio / Sandslash and Thunderbolt should OHKO Gyrados? Or is Nidoking's speed stat an isssue?

[quote="DTaeKim"]
Nidoking can learn Double Team via TM.

From my recollection, there are four major roadblocks for Nidoking in the SS run.

Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs.  In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round.  Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks.  If you catch that Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil.  Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

Lance's Gyrados is the second one.  It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking.  It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one.  It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking.  In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses.  You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one.  It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs.  However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.

When I look at my FAQ and speed run, I think if you have enough X-items to set up Nidoking properly, it can be done without segmenting.
[/quote]

Surely surf should OHKO Dugtrio / Sandslash and Thunderbolt should OHKO Gyrados? Or is Nidoking's speed stat an isssue?

UltimateDarius

2008-12-04 09:39:53 am

Back in the game!

I could go read thru your entire FAQ and watch your run, DTaeKim (which I will do eventually, I just don't have time right this second). How many Rare Candies should I be getting, and where? I know that you don't go into rocket game corner for that one, but in a SS, do you think it would be worth the one fight against the rocket guarding the poster to obtain both a rare candy and a PP up?

I also found an x special in the underground path on the way to vermilion. Not sure if this will be useful to a run or not prior to hitting celedon, but still.

DTaeKim

2008-12-04 11:57:37 am

I pick up 6 Rare Candies. I don't know if that extra level will make a difference, to be honest.

SP: My Nidoking's moveset does not have Surf or Thunderbolt. I used two of the slots for Fissure and Horn Drill. The last two were Ice Beam and Earthquake. Against Dugtrio, it's his speed that is the problem. Nidoking simply isn't faster.

As for the other two, I never checked because Horn Drill and X-Accuracy is a OHKO anyway.

SP

2008-12-04 02:18:20 pm

Ah fair enough, I forgot about the Ice Beam TM.

I still think Thunderbolt would be useful in places though, even if it's ultimately replaced with Fissure.

DTaeKim

2008-12-04 02:34:47 pm

That's why we have the OHKO moves.

DoubleThink

2008-12-04 07:02:24 pm

There's a word for that

Wouldn't OHKO moves be totally unreliable for an SS run?

UltimateDarius

2008-12-04 07:16:43 pm

Back in the game!

Quote from DoubleThink:

Wouldn't OHKO moves be totally unreliable for an SS run?

It's my understanding that X accuracy guarantees that the OHKO moves will do their job, provided that you are faster than the opponent. Which is what X speed is for in certain places.

I'm still weary of using Nidoking with the water/ice weakness in a SS though...

DTaeKim

2008-12-04 11:52:32 pm

Quote from DoubleThink:

Wouldn't OHKO moves be totally unreliable for an SS run?

Check the current Pokemon Yellow run. It demonstrates OHKO moves.

UltimateDarius

2008-12-08 12:28:37 am

Back in the game!

Mostly because I'm super stubborn, I'm testing Pikachu, and making the same number of saves as the current segmented run, to compare where I stand. I have to go redo the beginning again, because I foolishly made a slight oversight, and caught a pidgey at level 4, which does not know sand attack, however, in doing so, I discovered that I can beat Brock's Geodude with little to no problem without sand attacking it first, and only using 2 potions...thus saving myself 4 battle turns. Sand attack on onix is a must, mostly due to bind.

I will update, if anyone cares, the differences in times between the current segmented and my pikachu test run.

The first needed save was just before brock, same as the other run. (I made a random save due to the game clock continuing to tick, since the current segmented does as well, to keep it even on that note.)

SDA segmented run times My times
Save before Brock 20 Min 18 Min
[b]Mt. Moon entrance 29 Min 31 Min ***This will change with a sand attacking pidgey...
[b]Outside Cerulean 37 Min
Before Misty 51 Min

Mostly because I'm super stubborn, I'm testing Pikachu, and making the same number of saves as the current segmented run, to compare where I stand.  I have to go redo the beginning again, because I foolishly made a slight oversight, and caught a pidgey at level 4, which does not know sand attack, however, in doing so, I discovered that I can beat Brock's Geodude with little to no problem without sand attacking it first, and only using 2 potions...thus saving myself 4 battle turns.  Sand attack on onix is a must, mostly due to bind.

I will update, if anyone cares, the differences in times between the current segmented and my pikachu test run.

The first needed save was just before brock, same as the other run.  (I made a random save due to the game clock continuing to tick, since the current segmented does as well, to keep it even on that note.)

[b]SDA segmented run times                                              My times[/b]
[b]Save before Brock                    20 Min                                                                 18 Min[/b]
[b]Mt. Moon entrance                    29 Min                                          31 Min ***This will change with a sand attacking pidgey...
[b]Outside Cerulean                      37 Min                                                                 
[b] Before Misty                              51 Min                                                                  [/b]

Thomaz

2008-12-08 01:03:43 am

Catchin' them all

Why on earth is the first save before Brock?

You'll really want segmenting to take away the random encounters. Just because it's not possible in Fire Red doesn't mean you shouldn't try it in Yellow. Tongue

UltimateDarius

2008-12-08 01:18:52 am

Back in the game!

Quote from Thomaz:

Why on earth is the first save before Brock?

You'll really want segmenting to take away the random encounters. Just because it's not possible in Fire Red doesn't mean you shouldn't try it in Yellow. Tongue

The segmented run, the first save is actually right before the forest, before the nidoran M catch.

I'm doing my pikachu testing, for a SS run, to try to get another $100 of slowbro's cash, and "segmenting" for comparison purposes. Meaning, I'm making my saves in the same places that he does in the current run, or as close to them as possible for as long as possible. My pikachu testing branches off in Vermilion though, because Pika really can't handle Raichu right then.

Thomaz

2008-12-08 03:27:17 am

Catchin' them all

The way I would do it, for segmenting:

First save before fighting Gary because you can manipulate good stats on Pika;
Second save before the first route because you'll want no encounters;
Third save before forest to catch a (good) level 6 Nidoran.

This is of course for segmenting, but still.

Darn it, there are so many runs I have yet to do. :/

SS Yellow w/ Nidoking;
SS Yellow glitched;
Segmented Yellow glitched.