My feelings on The Demon Rush
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Arthur "Artas1984" Lozovskis's Trauma difficulty IL runs
Verifier Responses
Decision Accept, but maybe the Chapter 5 runs should be completed first?
Reason: Good runs with creative methods, but Chapter 5 can't be done on Trauma difficulty. Either chapter 5 shouldn't be included for a Trauma table, or Chapter 5 should be done on Nightmare difficulty and be added to the table.
Arthur "Artas1984" Lozovskis's Trauma difficulty IL runs
Verifier Responses
Quote:
I've watched through them all (sorry it took so long, was away at Katsucon for the weekend :-P ), and overall I'd say the runs are fine. As mentioned in the topic, the City on Water stage isn't available on the Trauma difficulty, so I didn't consider it part of the run. Second, the run was done without Tarot cards, which is kind of like imposing a random handicap on the runner. This isn't a problem, though it might mean that it will require more categories for the game in the future, if other people get better times while using the tarot cards. And I think this was brought up in the topic, but a few of the stages had a couple instances of video lag, and the Enclave stage has a large video glitch sticking out of the boss, so that one might need re-run depending on how you guys treat stuff like that. Aside from these, they seemed fast and legitimate, with some impressive shortcuts in areas. If you want, I can give some more detailed pros and cons for the individual stages.
Here are my detailed notes on the runs:
Asylum - Pretty good, not much more can be done considering all enemies need to be killed
Atrium - Efficient killing of most enemies just about as they spawned, good shortcut through the bars
Babel - Good herding of enemies early while collecting ammo, close call in the crushing ceiling room, nice sequence break into the window near the end
Base - Nice sequence break early on, pretty quick tank killing, seems tougher to finiish off the hordes of zombies as fast as the tanks, very nice jump off of the airplane and into the hanger near the end, would it have been better to stay up on the second floor when finishing off the enemies at the end?
Bridge - crazy jumping after going down the cables, how did that work? :-P I'm assuming it was an invisible ceiling, nice running arcoss the cable at the end too, sure were alot of those wierd short four legged things at the end!
Castle - Good jumping skipped most of the stage
Catacombs - Lots of downtime killing all enemies in the large room before the end, not sure if much can be done about it, though
Cathedral - Failed on using a body for a shortcut once, lost just a few seconds, some hunting to finish off all of the enemies in the next area
Cemetary - Very efficient on killing things as they spawn, Nice shortcut at the end
Enclave - Strange video glitch occuring, fast kill otherwise
Factory - noticed Some video lag, longest stage by a long shot, those commandos just seem to take forever to kill :-P, nice trick on the ladder at the end, unfortunate that there are no larger sequence breaks
Forest - good shortcut to the second half of the stage, those witches are a pain to kill!
Opera - that was quite a fall! Definitely shortened this stage up a good amount
Palace - Fantastic barrel boost near the end, nearly killed by fireworks
Prison - Wow, surprised that there aren't shortcuts like this in any other stages!
Ruins - Not much to say, quick efficient kill
Station - So many side rooms to clear! Little close on the health at the end, good thing the enemies had to funnel around that corner
Swamp - Another very fast boss kill
Tower - First form went down so fast! Nice job minimizing fall damage, Also, was that the expansion gun that was equipped at the start?
Town - I stand corrected on my prison statement :-P
Here are my detailed notes on the runs:
Asylum - Pretty good, not much more can be done considering all enemies need to be killed
Atrium - Efficient killing of most enemies just about as they spawned, good shortcut through the bars
Babel - Good herding of enemies early while collecting ammo, close call in the crushing ceiling room, nice sequence break into the window near the end
Base - Nice sequence break early on, pretty quick tank killing, seems tougher to finiish off the hordes of zombies as fast as the tanks, very nice jump off of the airplane and into the hanger near the end, would it have been better to stay up on the second floor when finishing off the enemies at the end?
Bridge - crazy jumping after going down the cables, how did that work? :-P I'm assuming it was an invisible ceiling, nice running arcoss the cable at the end too, sure were alot of those wierd short four legged things at the end!
Castle - Good jumping skipped most of the stage
Catacombs - Lots of downtime killing all enemies in the large room before the end, not sure if much can be done about it, though
Cathedral - Failed on using a body for a shortcut once, lost just a few seconds, some hunting to finish off all of the enemies in the next area
Cemetary - Very efficient on killing things as they spawn, Nice shortcut at the end
Enclave - Strange video glitch occuring, fast kill otherwise
Factory - noticed Some video lag, longest stage by a long shot, those commandos just seem to take forever to kill :-P, nice trick on the ladder at the end, unfortunate that there are no larger sequence breaks
Forest - good shortcut to the second half of the stage, those witches are a pain to kill!
Opera - that was quite a fall! Definitely shortened this stage up a good amount
Palace - Fantastic barrel boost near the end, nearly killed by fireworks
Prison - Wow, surprised that there aren't shortcuts like this in any other stages!
Ruins - Not much to say, quick efficient kill
Station - So many side rooms to clear! Little close on the health at the end, good thing the enemies had to funnel around that corner
Swamp - Another very fast boss kill
Tower - First form went down so fast! Nice job minimizing fall damage, Also, was that the expansion gun that was equipped at the start?
Town - I stand corrected on my prison statement :-P
Quote:
Right, here's my Painkiller verification. Sorry it took so long - stuff has been going on and needed sorting out.
Asylum: Ran out of freezy-juice at the end, but that cost hardly any time at all as did jumping into the doorframe.
Base: That one soldier guy REALLY doesn't wanna die, but at least he doesn't slow the runner down in any way. SOVJET UFO!!
Bridge: Ran out of rokkit-juice and almost ran out of shotgun-juice as well - Almost flawless ammo management!
Castle: Some pretty nasty interlacing here - I hope that's just the verifier copy... Other than that: Speedy fast of the quick variety.
Cathedral: I once managed to get to the upper floor by getting hit by a rock from the sub-boss - Probably wouldn't speed anything up as you still have to kill everything that moves to get the doors to open...
Enclave: The Necrogiant has a bad tumor on his shoulder, but that's purely cosmetic and not as deadly as the runner.
Factory: There's that interlacing again...
Forrest: Woosh! And more interlacing
Palace: ...and that is why you shouldn't play with fireworks!
Station: Run out of rokkit-juice again - looks like the runner lost a few seconds there trying to improvise, but overall that's nothing major
Swamp: "Killed the Swamp Thing in less than 4:00" - You bet!
Town: Wait, what?
Pretty solid runs! Butchered some of the levels in creative and fast ways. There's almost no execution errors, no cheating that I could detect and the videoquality/gfxglitch is no reason to reject any of this IMHO.
Solid accept!
Now I wanna see BOOH!
Asylum: Ran out of freezy-juice at the end, but that cost hardly any time at all as did jumping into the doorframe.
Base: That one soldier guy REALLY doesn't wanna die, but at least he doesn't slow the runner down in any way. SOVJET UFO!!
Bridge: Ran out of rokkit-juice and almost ran out of shotgun-juice as well - Almost flawless ammo management!
Castle: Some pretty nasty interlacing here - I hope that's just the verifier copy... Other than that: Speedy fast of the quick variety.
Cathedral: I once managed to get to the upper floor by getting hit by a rock from the sub-boss - Probably wouldn't speed anything up as you still have to kill everything that moves to get the doors to open...
Enclave: The Necrogiant has a bad tumor on his shoulder, but that's purely cosmetic and not as deadly as the runner.
Factory: There's that interlacing again...
Forrest: Woosh! And more interlacing
Palace: ...and that is why you shouldn't play with fireworks!
Station: Run out of rokkit-juice again - looks like the runner lost a few seconds there trying to improvise, but overall that's nothing major
Swamp: "Killed the Swamp Thing in less than 4:00" - You bet!
Town: Wait, what?
Pretty solid runs! Butchered some of the levels in creative and fast ways. There's almost no execution errors, no cheating that I could detect and the videoquality/gfxglitch is no reason to reject any of this IMHO.
Solid accept!
Now I wanna see BOOH!
Quote:
Finally checked all the stuff...
As has already been pointed out, 4 levels are interlaced (Castle, Factory, Forest, and Town), so that should be fixed. Babel also had a bit of sound hiccups.
No cheating detected, although I wonder what "Access to all levels granted" in the beginning of the Babel run is exactly. It's not a cheat (I checked GameFAQ's), so I'm not sure what it is exactly but it probably does as it says, unlocking all levels, so no biggie then (Couldn't find anything fishy either).
EDIT: After some more checking it seems this is a cheat from the PowerMad mod. It's just to unlock the levels so I guess it's no problem.
The gameplay in the runs is very good, although there are some faster times currently ( http://personal.inet.fi/cool/allaboutpainkiller/speedrun.html ), but since the gameplay is up to par I'd say accept. They can always later on be improved.
In the list of videos to download there was also City on Water, which has been done on Nightmare since it can't be done on Trauma. But that actually makes me wonder if the levels from Chapter 5 should be done on Nightmare and added to the table. They're still part of the game and so I think they should be included in the table.
Accepted
As has already been pointed out, 4 levels are interlaced (Castle, Factory, Forest, and Town), so that should be fixed. Babel also had a bit of sound hiccups.
No cheating detected, although I wonder what "Access to all levels granted" in the beginning of the Babel run is exactly. It's not a cheat (I checked GameFAQ's), so I'm not sure what it is exactly but it probably does as it says, unlocking all levels, so no biggie then (Couldn't find anything fishy either).
EDIT: After some more checking it seems this is a cheat from the PowerMad mod. It's just to unlock the levels so I guess it's no problem.
The gameplay in the runs is very good, although there are some faster times currently ( http://personal.inet.fi/cool/allaboutpainkiller/speedrun.html ), but since the gameplay is up to par I'd say accept. They can always later on be improved.
In the list of videos to download there was also City on Water, which has been done on Nightmare since it can't be done on Trauma. But that actually makes me wonder if the levels from Chapter 5 should be done on Nightmare and added to the table. They're still part of the game and so I think they should be included in the table.
Accepted
Quote:
Mike here is my comments on the set of runs for Painkiller.
First I owe you an apologize. It took me much more time to analyse this set of runs than the Left4Dead one and by the time I had it done, life kicked my ass a bit. I was out of any internet connection for something like a month. Didn't play any online game, didn't connect with any community. So sorry for the delay and I must say it was totally out of my hands. I am now connecting from work to post this and I may get an internet connection later.
Let's get back on the subject:
Painkiller speedrunning was started by SDA member Risto Jouslahti who produced a full set of runs. I don't know if it was because of the use of a mod for the last chapter or the average video quality (seemed good enough to me ^^) but the set never made it to SDA. Artas took these times as reference for his runs and has beaten every last one of them here.
Some notes about the rules chosen by the runner:
- It should be noted that artas didn't include the levels that weren't done on trauma. The last campaign for an obscure reason can only be played on nightmare which is an easier mode. Since they can be played on nightmare I suggest that the table is completely filled with these.
- The runner deliberately decided to not make use of any tarot card (powerups given at start of a level). This is a custom rule as tarot cards can help achieve faster times. But PK running has historically decided to ignore these (mostly for the sake of difficulty increase at the start I guess) so it seems fine to continue like this.
- Another custom rule is occasionnally allowing use of weapons that are not to be found until later levels. The game allows the player to replay any level using every weapon he has collected on a given profile so it is not cheating at all but strange enough to be noted.
Painkiller is a game with a lot of different options for runners and I'm pretty sure new categories may appear later if some interest bring player to run it more. I would have said all weapons and all tarots should be bound together but I don't believe this is enough of a concern to reject runs of high quality for a game that deserve a place on SDA.
I spotted a cheat unlocking all levels at some point but nothing is altering the standard gameplay at any time.
There are a couple of lags in some runs. Nothing too important but worth noting. PK engine is demanding a bit too much for the result.
Some runs aren't the current best times. It doesn't go against SDA rules which implies that SDA hosts runs and not records. All runs produced by artas are of great gameplay quality and up to SDA standards in that sense. I'll focus comments on runs where the time difference with the best run is the most important.
Chapter I
C1L3 - Catacombs
Great hoping sequences in the caves. The last battle before the boss is slow due to single ennemies leftovers. It is actually faster than RJ's first performance there but a new run proves that close to 20s can be saved here. No problem accepting it.
Chapter II
C2L4 - Snowy Bridge
Another awesome run with very few mistakes which tells a lot about the quality of the best existing run since artas is down 22s. Samourais soldiers can be avoided at 2:09 which explain a part of the time lost. Accept.
Chapter III
C3L1 - Train Station
It looks strange to see him make use of the Rocket Launcher just before picking it up. The run in itself is solid and yet the difference with the best run is over a minute (1:02) worth of better strategy, spamming spawn points and all. I wouldn't mind seeing this run accepted as it's still a solid run though runner is capable of pulling it better.
C3L3 - Military Base
There is a huge skip missing for this run but if I remember well, artas or risto said that the trick to make it is very hard to pull. Couples of mistakes here and there but artas is still very efficient to run the level. Two minutes of differences is alot, if it wasn't for the existing run showing the trick this would be easy to accept. Accepting this run depends on SDA tolerance in this case.
Chapter IV
C4L2 - Palace
A new shortcut has been brought up I believe after artas produced his run, allowing quite a nice skip. The time difference in the end is still relatively low (27s). Depends if the runner wants to give it a shot, no shame accepting it really.
All these runs are missing:
Chapter V
C5L2 - Docks
C5L3 - Old Monastery
C5L4 - Hell
I don't want to be too picky since this game deserves a place on SDA but...
First I can't accept that the game isn't presented in full. The last levels can't be played on trauma (hardest mode) but can be on nightmare. Mod unlocking the levels in trauma wouldn't be allowed for SDA so providing a set of nightmare runs for the last campaign is required. The most important ennemy is time and an easier difficulty should just mean more aggressiveness and time saved to compensate. City on Water run was included so why not the others?
There are runs that look pretty far from the current best runs. Artas stopped trying when he had RJ's times beat but depending on his will I would suggest to either give some a second shot or submit the set of runs in partnership with other runners (the later would be best since I'm pretty sure other runners will want to submit their runs to SDA soon after). This point is not as important given the good gameplay quality.
The run should be put on hold until the first point is sorted out. We are very very close to finally see this game hosted on SDA so I hope things will be corrected. I think only C5L4 Hell hasn't seen a new run since RJ's first set of runs.
First I owe you an apologize. It took me much more time to analyse this set of runs than the Left4Dead one and by the time I had it done, life kicked my ass a bit. I was out of any internet connection for something like a month. Didn't play any online game, didn't connect with any community. So sorry for the delay and I must say it was totally out of my hands. I am now connecting from work to post this and I may get an internet connection later.
Let's get back on the subject:
Painkiller speedrunning was started by SDA member Risto Jouslahti who produced a full set of runs. I don't know if it was because of the use of a mod for the last chapter or the average video quality (seemed good enough to me ^^) but the set never made it to SDA. Artas took these times as reference for his runs and has beaten every last one of them here.
Some notes about the rules chosen by the runner:
- It should be noted that artas didn't include the levels that weren't done on trauma. The last campaign for an obscure reason can only be played on nightmare which is an easier mode. Since they can be played on nightmare I suggest that the table is completely filled with these.
- The runner deliberately decided to not make use of any tarot card (powerups given at start of a level). This is a custom rule as tarot cards can help achieve faster times. But PK running has historically decided to ignore these (mostly for the sake of difficulty increase at the start I guess) so it seems fine to continue like this.
- Another custom rule is occasionnally allowing use of weapons that are not to be found until later levels. The game allows the player to replay any level using every weapon he has collected on a given profile so it is not cheating at all but strange enough to be noted.
Painkiller is a game with a lot of different options for runners and I'm pretty sure new categories may appear later if some interest bring player to run it more. I would have said all weapons and all tarots should be bound together but I don't believe this is enough of a concern to reject runs of high quality for a game that deserve a place on SDA.
I spotted a cheat unlocking all levels at some point but nothing is altering the standard gameplay at any time.
There are a couple of lags in some runs. Nothing too important but worth noting. PK engine is demanding a bit too much for the result.
Some runs aren't the current best times. It doesn't go against SDA rules which implies that SDA hosts runs and not records. All runs produced by artas are of great gameplay quality and up to SDA standards in that sense. I'll focus comments on runs where the time difference with the best run is the most important.
Chapter I
C1L3 - Catacombs
Great hoping sequences in the caves. The last battle before the boss is slow due to single ennemies leftovers. It is actually faster than RJ's first performance there but a new run proves that close to 20s can be saved here. No problem accepting it.
Chapter II
C2L4 - Snowy Bridge
Another awesome run with very few mistakes which tells a lot about the quality of the best existing run since artas is down 22s. Samourais soldiers can be avoided at 2:09 which explain a part of the time lost. Accept.
Chapter III
C3L1 - Train Station
It looks strange to see him make use of the Rocket Launcher just before picking it up. The run in itself is solid and yet the difference with the best run is over a minute (1:02) worth of better strategy, spamming spawn points and all. I wouldn't mind seeing this run accepted as it's still a solid run though runner is capable of pulling it better.
C3L3 - Military Base
There is a huge skip missing for this run but if I remember well, artas or risto said that the trick to make it is very hard to pull. Couples of mistakes here and there but artas is still very efficient to run the level. Two minutes of differences is alot, if it wasn't for the existing run showing the trick this would be easy to accept. Accepting this run depends on SDA tolerance in this case.
Chapter IV
C4L2 - Palace
A new shortcut has been brought up I believe after artas produced his run, allowing quite a nice skip. The time difference in the end is still relatively low (27s). Depends if the runner wants to give it a shot, no shame accepting it really.
All these runs are missing:
Chapter V
C5L2 - Docks
C5L3 - Old Monastery
C5L4 - Hell
I don't want to be too picky since this game deserves a place on SDA but...
First I can't accept that the game isn't presented in full. The last levels can't be played on trauma (hardest mode) but can be on nightmare. Mod unlocking the levels in trauma wouldn't be allowed for SDA so providing a set of nightmare runs for the last campaign is required. The most important ennemy is time and an easier difficulty should just mean more aggressiveness and time saved to compensate. City on Water run was included so why not the others?
There are runs that look pretty far from the current best runs. Artas stopped trying when he had RJ's times beat but depending on his will I would suggest to either give some a second shot or submit the set of runs in partnership with other runners (the later would be best since I'm pretty sure other runners will want to submit their runs to SDA soon after). This point is not as important given the good gameplay quality.
The run should be put on hold until the first point is sorted out. We are very very close to finally see this game hosted on SDA so I hope things will be corrected. I think only C5L4 Hell hasn't seen a new run since RJ's first set of runs.
Decision Accept, but maybe the Chapter 5 runs should be completed first?
Reason: Good runs with creative methods, but Chapter 5 can't be done on Trauma difficulty. Either chapter 5 shouldn't be included for a Trauma table, or Chapter 5 should be done on Nightmare difficulty and be added to the table.
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