Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! - February 2, 2021

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2021-02-02 01:45:13 pm

2021-01-08 02:45:57 am

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/NewAndTasty.html

Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Hard] [Deaths] [Resets] [Large-skip glitches]

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to Sam 'Samtastic' Locke!

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2021-01-08 02:45:57 am

Run Information

Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty! () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Hard] [Deaths] [Resets] [Large-skip glitches]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/NewAndTasty-20201226/New%20%27n%27%20Tasty%20any%25%20Speedurn%20in%202009%20IGT.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

Worn_Traveler

2021-01-11 11:38:25 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

A/V is fine. No cheating detected.

This run is cleaner and faster than the current run. It's the usual Abe appearing and disappearing all over the place (I keep thinking that's a different Mudokon outside the Zulag transports), and ignoring the plight of those around him in an effort to stop the corporation as a one mudokon army...

I accept this run for publication to replace the current one.

LotBlind

2021-01-16 02:58:03 pm

Because of reasons I wasn't able to listen to the audio this time. Video looks clean.

Like Worn says, "it's the usual", but I don't think these any% runs even end up stopping any evil entities... that takes a team effort.

I don't really understand how the new run saves so much IGT. While parts are a bit faster, many parts are also slower than before when factoring out the loading times, which are shorter. Especially the part where you approach the Boardroom on the elevator (21:25) looks like the old run does it faster, and also there's several deaths around the grinders as mentioned in the comments. I really don't understand how the difference is made. Somehow manipulating the game's timer in an intensive way? Both the runs have a 20-minute time shown on the save file as well, so how can over a minute have been saved? Really confused. Would like some more comments or something to explain this more.

Samtastic

2021-01-17 05:39:31 am

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

My RTA time was improved as well. I had 23:39 in my previous run and this time my time was 22:50.

Quote from LotBlind:

Because of reasons I wasn't able to listen to the audio this time. Video looks clean.

Like Worn says, "it's the usual", but I don't think these any% runs even end up stopping any evil entities... that takes a team effort.

I don't really understand how the new run saves so much IGT. While parts are a bit faster, many parts are also slower than before when factoring out the loading times, which are shorter. Especially the part where you approach the Boardroom on the elevator (21:25) looks like the old run does it faster, and also there's several deaths around the grinders as mentioned in the comments. I really don't understand how the difference is made. Somehow manipulating the game's timer in an intensive way? Both the runs have a 20-minute time shown on the save file as well, so how can over a minute have been saved? Really confused. Would like some more comments or something to explain this more.

It might be to do with the way I restarted the chapter in the run.

My RTA time was improved as well. I had 23:39 in my previous run and this time my time was 22:50.[quote="LotBlind"]Because of reasons I wasn't able to listen to the audio this time. Video looks clean.

Like Worn says, "it's the usual", but I don't think these any% runs even end up stopping any evil entities... that takes a team effort.

I don't really understand how the new run saves so much IGT. While parts are a bit faster, many parts are also slower than before when factoring out the loading times, which are shorter. Especially the part where you approach the Boardroom on the elevator (21:25) looks like the old run does it faster, and also there's several deaths around the grinders as mentioned in the comments. I really don't understand how the difference is made. Somehow manipulating the game's timer in an intensive way? Both the runs have a 20-minute time shown on the save file as well, so how can over a minute have been saved? Really confused. Would like some more comments or something to explain this more.[/quote]

It might be to do with the way I restarted the chapter in the run.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2021-01-17 11:10:49 am

2021-01-17 11:09:47 am

Before I forget, you said you were going back to Oddyssee next. If you're going to use a new method to get the precise IGT in the old games through some kind of RAM watch, make sure it's not shown on the game window itself, as you know.

""In-Game timer ignored for being badly wrong. It doesn't count chapter resets into account and probably other stuff. The in-game timer at the end of the video is also 5 seconds less than the one shown on the leaderboards, and it also doesn't count resets, so that is ignored as well."

Is that something someone said? But you're still showing the chapter times at the end as if they meant something... Because of those resets making the IGT inaccurate, Israeli would have timed this as RTA instead. So basically the IGT in the run title and the ones you're showing at the end are just a red herring (although I'm sure if the IGT is faster, likely the real time is faster as well). I wonder if they should be cut from the video for being confusing then?

I still don't understand: I watched the videos side by side and I swear I couldn't see such massive sources of improvement when loading times are factored out (which I did). The Boardroom part was the biggest difference and it was all in the old run's favor. Could you point at the moments where that big difference is made up for in the new run?

Before I forget, you said you were going back to Oddyssee next. If you're going to use a new method to get the precise IGT in the old games through some kind of RAM watch, make sure it's not shown on the game window itself, as you know.

""In-Game timer ignored for being badly wrong. It doesn't count chapter resets into account and probably other stuff. The in-game timer at the end of the video is also 5 seconds less than the one shown on the leaderboards, and it also doesn't count resets, so that is ignored as well."

Is that something someone said? But you're still showing the chapter times at the end as if they meant something... Because of those resets making the IGT inaccurate, Israeli would have timed this as RTA instead. So basically the IGT in the run title and the ones you're showing at the end are just a red herring (although I'm sure if the IGT is faster, likely the real time is faster as well). I wonder if they should be cut from the video for being confusing then?

I still don't understand: I watched the videos side by side and I swear I couldn't see such massive sources of improvement when loading times are factored out (which I did). The Boardroom part was the biggest difference and it was all in the old run's favor. Could you point at the moments where that big difference is made up for in the new run?

Samtastic

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2021-01-18 12:23:32 pm

2021-01-17 01:43:42 pm

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Have a look at Zulag 3 around 18:48 I do a teleport glitch there that I didn't do in my previous run.

LotBlind

2021-01-18 12:59:22 pm

You save about 4 seconds there... You lose over 15 seconds in the Boardroom because it looks like in addition to dying to the grinders, you also seem to miss the strategy that lets you get through the door faster (or whatever the reset there does) the first time around. What am I missing? There was one other part where I thought the new run was noticeably faster but that can't create that kind of difference.

Samtastic

2021-01-19 10:28:59 am

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Quote from LotBlind:

You save about 4 seconds there... You lose over 15 seconds in the Boardroom because it looks like in addition to dying to the grinders, you also seem to miss the strategy that lets you get through the door faster (or whatever the reset there does) the first time around. What am I missing? There was one other part where I thought the new run was noticeably faster but that can't create that kind of difference.

It's probably due to how fast Abe teleports between maps.

LotBlind

2021-01-21 03:56:38 am

"teleports between maps": Are you talking about loading times?

Samtastic

2021-01-22 01:38:00 am

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Quote from LotBlind:

"teleports between maps": Are you talking about loading times?

I'm talking about when Abe does the teleport glitch the time it takes between Abe goes up in the air and lands on the spot.

LotBlind

2021-01-22 10:25:07 am

I did notice that you optimized that a little bit in many parts... but again, there are other parts where the old run does it faster by going less high up and thus landing faster. That still doesn't add up to that much IMO. You're trying to tell me it's almost 50 seconds better RTA. Unless I fell asleep while watching, that's not even nearly the case. Are you sure you factored out the faster loading times when making that estimate?

Samtastic

2021-01-22 12:07:10 pm

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Quote from LotBlind:

I did notice that you optimized that a little bit in many parts... but again, there are other parts where the old run does it faster by going less high up and thus landing faster. That still doesn't add up to that much IMO. You're trying to tell me it's almost 50 seconds better RTA. Unless I fell asleep while watching, that's not even nearly the case. Are you sure you factored out the faster loading times when making that estimate?

It's probably due to faster loading times yeah because the last run was done on a computer that wasn't fit for recording this game.

ktwo

2021-01-24 12:49:29 pm

Sam,
1. Are you absolutely sure this run is faster than your previous pb?
2. Since there appear to be new time savers found since the previous run, are you intending to go back to this category in the near future and try to get a run that's clearly faster?

If you're saving time in some parts and losing time in others and considering LotBlind's comments, it seems like the only way to confirm without a doubt that it's faster would be to time the new run. That's doable, but quite time-consuming for a game like this (PC game with loading times). So if you're planning to continue working on lowering the time, the easiest would be to put this submission on hold. But if you feel like you're done with the category, then we'll take a closer look at how this compares to the old run (assuming you're confident the new run is faster).

Samtastic

Edit history:

Samtastic: 2021-01-25 12:56:06 am

2021-01-25 12:54:23 am

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Quote from ktwo:

Sam,
1. Are you absolutely sure this run is faster than your previous pb?
2. Since there appear to be new time savers found since the previous run, are you intending to go back to this category in the near future and try to get a run that's clearly faster?

If you're saving time in some parts and losing time in others and considering LotBlind's comments, it seems like the only way to confirm without a doubt that it's faster would be to time the new run. That's doable, but quite time-consuming for a game like this (PC game with loading times). So if you're planning to continue working on lowering the time, the easiest would be to put this submission on hold. But if you feel like you're done with the category, then we'll take a closer look at how this compares to the old run (assuming you're confident the new run is faster).

Quote from ktwo:

Sam,
1. Are you absolutely sure this run is faster than your previous pb?
2. Since there appear to be new time savers found since the previous run, are you intending to go back to this category in the near future and try to get a run that's clearly faster?

If you're saving time in some parts and losing time in others and considering LotBlind's comments, it seems like the only way to confirm without a doubt that it's faster would be to time the new run. That's doable, but quite time-consuming for a game like this (PC game with loading times). So if you're planning to continue working on lowering the time, the easiest would be to put this submission on hold. But if you feel like you're done with the category, then we'll take a closer look at how this compares to the old run (assuming you're confident the new run is faster).

1. I am sure that it’s faster than my previous run.
2. I timed it live during a stream and it got a 22:50 RTA and 20:09 ingame time whilst in my old run I had 23:39 RTA and a 20:18 ingame which makes this 10
seconds faster than my old WR.

[quote="ktwo"]Sam,
1. Are you absolutely sure this run is faster than your previous pb?
2. Since there appear to be new time savers found since the previous run, are you intending to go back to this category in the near future and try to get a run that's clearly faster?

If you're saving time in some parts and losing time in others and considering LotBlind's comments, it seems like the only way to confirm without a doubt that it's faster would be to time the new run. That's doable, but quite time-consuming for a game like this (PC game with loading times). So if you're planning to continue working on lowering the time, the easiest would be to put this submission on hold. But if you feel like you're done with the category, then we'll take a closer look at how this compares to the old run (assuming you're confident the new run is faster).[/quote]
[quote="ktwo"]Sam,
1. Are you absolutely sure this run is faster than your previous pb?
2. Since there appear to be new time savers found since the previous run, are you intending to go back to this category in the near future and try to get a run that's clearly faster?

If you're saving time in some parts and losing time in others and considering LotBlind's comments, it seems like the only way to confirm without a doubt that it's faster would be to time the new run. That's doable, but quite time-consuming for a game like this (PC game with loading times). So if you're planning to continue working on lowering the time, the easiest would be to put this submission on hold. But if you feel like you're done with the category, then we'll take a closer look at how this compares to the old run (assuming you're confident the new run is faster).[/quote]

1. I am sure that it’s faster than my previous run.
2. I timed it live during a stream and it got a 22:50 RTA and 20:09 ingame time whilst in my old run I had 23:39 RTA and a 20:18 ingame which makes this 10
seconds faster than my old WR.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2021-01-25 12:05:24 pm

LotBlind: 2021-01-25 12:04:26 pm

2021-01-25 12:03:44 pm

Those RTA times check out so long as you count in loading times. Therefore they're bollocks as we obviously don't count them. You can't have removed them from your splits if you timed it live. Didn't you notice you're saving a massive amount of time during every loading screen?? If this run somehow is still faster than the old one, no-one seems to be able to show where that happens.

We are NOT using IGT. This quote is from someone, probably IsraeliRD: "In-Game timer ignored for being badly wrong. It doesn't count chapter resets into account and probably other stuff. The in-game timer at the end of the video is also 5 seconds less than the one shown on the leaderboards, and it also doesn't count resets, so that is ignored as well." You didn't comment on it in any way. It does represent how the old run was actually timed though: not IGT. You can't use IGT when there's resets that mess it up. I'm guessing the in-game timer doesn't account for the extra reset in the last area at all.

Samtastic

2021-01-26 12:46:16 am

Oddworld Speedrun Master!

Quote from LotBlind:

Those RTA times check out so long as you count in loading times. Therefore they're bollocks as we obviously don't count them. You can't have removed them from your splits if you timed it live. Didn't you notice you're saving a massive amount of time during every loading screen?? If this run somehow is still faster than the old one, no-one seems to be able to show where that happens.

We are NOT using IGT. This quote is from someone, probably IsraeliRD: "In-Game timer ignored for being badly wrong. It doesn't count chapter resets into account and probably other stuff. The in-game timer at the end of the video is also 5 seconds less than the one shown on the leaderboards, and it also doesn't count resets, so that is ignored as well." You didn't comment on it in any way. It does represent how the old run was actually timed though: not IGT. You can't use IGT when there's resets that mess it up. I'm guessing the in-game timer doesn't account for the extra reset in the last area at all.

It doesn’t no. But we do have an accurate in-game time for Oddysee and Exoddus which Livesplit now recognises so we’ll be able to use that time for my next Oddysee run I submit.

[quote="LotBlind"]Those RTA times check out so long as you count in loading times. Therefore they're bollocks as we obviously don't count them. You can't have removed them from your splits if you timed it live. Didn't you notice you're saving a massive amount of time during every loading screen?? If this run somehow is still faster than the old one, no-one seems to be able to show where that happens.

We are NOT using IGT. This quote is from someone, probably IsraeliRD: "In-Game timer ignored for being badly wrong. It doesn't count chapter resets into account and probably other stuff. The in-game timer at the end of the video is also 5 seconds less than the one shown on the leaderboards, and it also doesn't count resets, so that is ignored as well." You didn't comment on it in any way. It does represent how the old run was actually timed though: not IGT. You can't use IGT when there's resets that mess it up. I'm guessing the in-game timer doesn't account for the extra reset in the last area at all.[/quote]

It doesn’t no. But we do have an accurate in-game time for Oddysee and Exoddus which Livesplit now recognises so we’ll be able to use that time for my next Oddysee run I submit.

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2021-01-28 11:19:06 am

2021-01-28 11:17:25 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Haio, I timed the new run and it is 6 seconds faster than previous. It has some points where it's equal or slower than previous run by usually up to 2 seconds, and some cases where it's faster 2-3 seconds, with one room being almost 4 seconds. The biggest time loss is the boardroom with 8 seconds.

Watching the new run it definitely is cleaner but it seems like every new submission has some rooms faster and some slower but they usually average out to under a second every time. The boardroom in this run is extremely ugly but otherwise a good run. Accept as improvement.

Edit: for some weird reason on a lot of extremely short rooms (4-7 seconds) where Sam goes between one door to the next, he usually loses time by about half a second compared to previous run. Point of thought for next run.

LotBlind

2021-01-28 01:47:06 pm

So my method for timing the Boardroom (and other parts) was obviously more primitive than Israeli's. Also I didn't notice that there is a chapter reset in both runs there, just in different places (I think one just messes around where the other one waits for the lift). I guess it is just 8 seconds then. So I was of course right that there was no way it could be as much faster as indicated by the times given by the runner, neither of which turned out to be directly relevant here. Ideally, the verifiers would always know how exactly the run is timed but we don't usually have verifiers who know the game that well, so the runner needs to know their game instead. Sam couldn't have known what the SDA time was without timing the run the SDA way, so the fact it is a little bit faster is just kind of lucky (though a correlation is to be expected in the coarse in-game time and SDA time). I just don't want to have to verify runs that turn out not to save time, so please be extra sure in the future.

Well, accept

PS: Another reminder not to put the new precise Oddyssee/Exoddus RAM watch timer on the game video itself. I'm sure you weren't going to but don't wanna have to reject runs because of that. It's not part of the game's graphics after all even if it's used for a better way to time the run.

BTW: How are we going to compare the old records with new ones then for those games? Israeli?

So my method for timing the Boardroom (and other parts) was obviously more primitive than Israeli's. Also I didn't notice that there is a chapter reset in both runs there, just in different places (I think one just messes around where the other one waits for the lift). I guess it is just 8 seconds then. So I was of course right that there was no way it could be as much faster as indicated by the times given by the runner, neither of which turned out to be directly relevant here. Ideally, the verifiers would always know how exactly the run is timed but we don't usually have verifiers who know the game that well, so the runner needs to know their game instead. Sam couldn't have known what the SDA time was without timing the run the SDA way, so the fact it is a little bit faster is just kind of lucky (though a correlation is to be expected in the coarse in-game time and SDA time). I just don't want to have to verify runs that turn out not to save time, so please be extra sure in the future.

Well, accept

PS: Another reminder not to put the new precise Oddyssee/Exoddus RAM watch timer on the game video itself. I'm sure you weren't going to but don't wanna have to reject runs because of that. It's not part of the game's graphics after all even if it's used for a better way to time the run.

BTW: How are we going to compare the old records with new ones then for those games? Israeli?

SDAVerification

2021-02-02 01:45:14 pm

Decision posted.