Metroid Zero Mission - May 3rd, 2009

2009-05-03 12:40:48 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MetroidZeroMission.html

Andrew 'spidey-widey' Brockmann's run

Verifier Responses

Quote:

Verifier: so i finished verifying the zm run
Verifier: i'm ambivalent about it, really
Verifier: it's pretty clear the runner wasn't lying when he said that it was rushed
me: yeah I heard there was a sloppy part or two
me: I mean it's only 3 segments
Verifier: yeah, he really should redo it
Verifier: if he doesn't, someone else will beat it eventually
Verifier: not eventually, but soon, even
Verifier: hell, i kinda wanna try :/
Verifier: but that said, accept it. it beats the pants off the old segmented run and still beats the ss by a minute
Verifier: the runner has a bunch of sub-second optimizations and stuff that shows that he knows what he's doing
Verifier: he just didn't take the time to do it properly Sad

Verifier: i actually took the time to watch the current ss and this one side by side
Verifier: it was instructive
Verifier: since i'd wondered how it could be so much faster with the mistakes it has
Verifier: oh yeah, audio/visual quality was fine, no sign of cheating, etc etc
me: okay fair enough

Quote:

End time is 27:40. I don't know what the runner was smoking in the bug room about 2-3 minutes into the run but I'm letting it slide. Accepting because it's an improvement to a previously obsoleted category.

Quote:

Video quality is good. No encoding errors I could see.

Run appears to be devoid of cheating, which is always good.

Now, onto the important part. It seems like a great run to me. There were some problems in places (Acid Worm skip and the hives are the most obvious), but most of those are quite difficult anyways and didn't cost that much time. Overall, it seems to be of good quality, and considering it beats the current record, it should be accepted.

Quote:

Segment 1: Great use of the morph ball for some extra speed. Some problems with the hives, but it didn’t waste much time. Impressive jumping up the corridors. Nice use of the charge beam to kill the enemies as well. Awesome bomb jumping after the power grip is gotten. The room before the Ice Beam was really cool to see. Very impressive segment.

Segment 2: Absolutely awesome Ridley fight. Again, some neat things when backtracking to Brinstar. Little minor fumble in the acid room, wasting about 5 seconds, no biggie though. Epic fight with Kraid too. Nice technique when killing the metroids also.

Segment 3: Decent Mother Brain approach. Really good escape sequence too. Well executed suitless segment. Fairly well done boss too. Good Mecha Ridley fight, great escape.

Accepted. No crippling mistakes, and it seems like it took a good deal of effort.

Quote:

Here are my comments for the MZM run:
Segment 1--Standard Zero Mission fare here. Got a ton of easy and/or required items and headed to Ridley for some more easy collection. No mistakes here.

Segment 2--Nice and fast through Ridley, minimal time in Kraid, and sped through Tourian. Again, no real mistakes were noticed here.

Segment 3--Mother Brain went perfectly, as did the entire stealth section (I spotted a one second mistake in the middle of it when the runner missed a wall jump, but it was nothing major), and the escape was perfect as well.

Overall--There are no sound/quality issues or cheating, and run is about as ideal as you can get, with minor boss improvements (such as the suit boss and Mecha Ridley. Accept this.

Quote:

found this to be a very impressive speedrun which showcased a nice array of skills and tricks.

There were some mistakes but that's forgiveable considering the long segment lengths.

However, there were some parts where you could save but chose not to. In my opinion, losing one second while saving is better since you can get a better performance afterwards.

I was particularly impressed with the 3rd segment, which you performed really well despite its length and difficulty.

Veredict: Accept

Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a minute faster than the current SS, and the verifiers liked it.

Thread title:

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MetroidZeroMission.html

Andrew 'spidey-widey' Brockmann's run

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]Verifier: so i finished verifying the zm run
Verifier: i'm ambivalent about it, really
Verifier: it's pretty clear the runner wasn't lying when he said that it was rushed
me: yeah I heard there was a sloppy part or two
me: I mean it's only 3 segments
Verifier: yeah, he really should redo it
Verifier: if he doesn't, someone else will beat it eventually
Verifier: not eventually, but soon, even
Verifier: hell, i kinda wanna try :/
Verifier: but that said, accept it.  it beats the pants off the old segmented run and still beats the ss by a minute
Verifier: the runner has a bunch of sub-second optimizations and stuff that shows that he knows what he's doing
Verifier: he just didn't take the time to do it properly :(
Verifier: i actually took the time to watch the current ss and this one side by side
Verifier: it was instructive
Verifier: since i'd wondered how it could be so much faster with the mistakes it has
Verifier: oh yeah, audio/visual quality was fine, no sign of cheating, etc etc
me: okay fair enough[/quote]

[quote]End time is 27:40.  I don't know what the runner was smoking in the bug room about 2-3 minutes into the run but I'm letting it slide.  Accepting because it's an improvement to a previously obsoleted category.[/quote]

[quote]Video quality is good.  No encoding errors I could see.

Run appears to be devoid of cheating, which is always good.

Now, onto the important part.  It seems like a great run to me.  There were some problems in places (Acid Worm skip and the hives are the most obvious), but most of those are quite difficult anyways and didn't cost that much time.  Overall, it seems to be of good quality, and considering it beats the current record, it should be accepted.[/quote]

[quote]Segment 1: Great use of the morph ball for some extra speed. Some problems with the hives, but it didn’t waste much time. Impressive jumping up the corridors. Nice use of the charge beam to kill the enemies as well. Awesome bomb jumping after the power grip is gotten. The room before the Ice Beam was really cool to see. Very impressive segment.

Segment 2: Absolutely awesome Ridley fight. Again, some neat things when backtracking to Brinstar. Little minor fumble in the acid room, wasting about 5 seconds, no biggie though. Epic fight with Kraid too. Nice technique when killing the metroids also.

Segment 3: Decent Mother Brain approach. Really good escape sequence too. Well executed suitless segment. Fairly well done boss too. Good Mecha Ridley fight, great escape.

Accepted. No crippling mistakes, and it seems like it took a good deal of effort.[/quote]

[quote]Here are my comments for the MZM run:
Segment 1--Standard Zero Mission fare here. Got a ton of easy and/or required items and headed to Ridley for some more easy collection. No mistakes here.

Segment 2--Nice and fast through Ridley, minimal time in Kraid, and sped through Tourian. Again, no real mistakes were noticed here.

Segment 3--Mother Brain went perfectly, as did the entire stealth section (I spotted a one second mistake in the middle of it when the runner missed a wall jump, but it was nothing major), and the escape was perfect as well.

Overall--There are no sound/quality issues or cheating, and run is about as ideal as you can get, with minor boss improvements (such as the suit boss and Mecha Ridley. Accept this.[/quote]

[quote]found this to be a very impressive speedrun which showcased a nice array of skills and tricks.

There were some mistakes but that's forgiveable considering the long segment lengths.

However, there were some parts where you could save but chose not to. In my opinion, losing one second while saving is better since you can get a better performance afterwards.

I was particularly impressed with the 3rd segment, which you performed really well despite its length and difficulty.

Veredict: Accept[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: It's a minute faster than the current SS, and the verifiers liked it.

MASTER-88

2009-05-03 03:03:07 pm

Master-88

This might be awseome run.

I just never believed someone can go game under 28 minutes. We know how hard it is break under 30 minutes limit with this game.
When i watch your SS run i think it was definitely possible beat game under 28 minutes but i surprised you got it in 27.40. This sounds really crazy, because old segmented run was truly awesome too.

I can,t wait see that run. Shocked

Sir VG

2009-05-19 06:27:14 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

Segment 1--Standard Zero Mission fare here. Got a ton of easy and/or required items and headed to Ridley for some more easy collection. No mistakes here.

I would like to know what this verifier was smoking, because I would consider the hive room a horrible mistake. Man, that room was ugly.

MatrixTN

2009-05-19 10:03:24 am

You got a deletion wish?

Quote from Lord_VG:

I would consider the hive room a horrible mistake. Man, that room was ugly.

I said the same (I was Verifier 2).

MASTER-88

2009-05-19 01:31:02 pm

Master-88

Yeah hive room was quite bad compared it how good it is done his SS run. But i don,t want blame with this, because run was overall very well done. His time in ridley lair save was alot better than other runners ever.

But i agree 1st segment was only where you really can lower this run. 2nd & 3rd segment was truly hardcore job and it is easy say: These segments rock :o. I just surprised how anyone runner can have super good refill luck with Tourian metroids and as well skip save point before metroids and play this all in at one go. Shocked

I almost always spend hours my real time if i try let full missiles & super missiles before save end of Tourian and i just can,t imagine how anyone can make that crazy manipulation end of long segment. Shocked

Full points with this. Wink

spidey-widey

2009-05-19 10:31:48 pm

I'm glad to finally see the run on the site. Thanks to everyone who verified/commented.

Seeing as how the hive room is a hot topic, I guess I'll discuss that first. Certainly the worst room in the run, although many people likely don't realize that only the second of the three falls could really be considered a bad mistake; the other two falls are most often unavoidable due to the moving patterns of the bugs. The hive room in my single segment run was just an extraordinary case and is definitely not the standard.

Quote from MASTER-88:

His time in ridley lair save was alot better than other runners ever.

Yeah, I'm kinda curious how low that save time before Ridley can go. I got 8:44 in this run but I only worked on the first segment for about an hour. I suspect around 8:30 might be optimal with ninja precision, flawless execution, and lots of luck.

Quote from MASTER-88:

But i agree 1st segment was only where you really can lower this run. 2nd & 3rd segment was truly hardcore job and it is easy say: These segments rock.

1st segment definitely has the most room for improvement. I could take some time off the 2nd segment with greater precision and not making the 3 second mistake at the acid worm skip. There's room for improvement in the 3rd segment also, especially if Mecha Ridley cooperates (which he didn't in this run). As I mentioned in my comments, though, I doubt a sub 27 run could be done with this route; about 27:10 to 27:15 looks like the limit to me.

Quote from MASTER-88:

I just surprised how anyone runner can have super good refill luck with Tourian metroids and as well skip save point before metroids and play this all in at one go.

Haha, don't expect me to ever do that again. It looks pretty cool, though.

I must say, I'm surprised by the remarkable lack of comments about other aspects of the run, such as the bad luck with Mecha Ridley, the speedy escapes, the astronomical luck on the metroids, etc. Are these just too boring to discuss? Sad

Lastly, I would like to improve this someday, but I have no idea when I'll have the time to do so; it might be just a few months or maybe a year or more.

I'm glad to finally see the run on the site.  Thanks to everyone who verified/commented.

Seeing as how the hive room is a hot topic, I guess I'll discuss that first.  Certainly the worst room in the run, although many people likely don't realize that only the second of the three falls could really be considered a bad mistake; the other two falls are most often unavoidable due to the moving patterns of the bugs.  The hive room in my single segment run was just an extraordinary case and is definitely not the standard.

[quote="MASTER-88"]His time in ridley lair save was alot better than other runners ever.[/quote]
Yeah, I'm kinda curious how low that save time before Ridley can go.  I got 8:44 in this run but I only worked on the first segment for about an hour.  I suspect around 8:30 might be optimal with ninja precision, flawless execution, and lots of luck.

[quote="MASTER-88"]But i agree 1st segment was only where you really can lower this run. 2nd & 3rd segment was truly hardcore job and it is easy say: These segments rock.[/quote]
1st segment definitely has the most room for improvement.  I could take some time off the 2nd segment with greater precision and not making the 3 second mistake at the acid worm skip.  There's room for improvement in the 3rd segment also, especially if Mecha Ridley cooperates (which he didn't in this run).  As I mentioned in my comments, though, I doubt a sub 27 run could be done with this route; about 27:10 to 27:15 looks like the limit to me.

[quote="MASTER-88"]I just surprised how anyone runner can have super good refill luck with Tourian metroids and as well skip save point before metroids and play this all in at one go.[/quote]
Haha, don't expect me to ever do that again.  It looks pretty cool, though.

I must say, I'm surprised by the remarkable lack of comments about other aspects of the run, such as the bad luck with Mecha Ridley, the speedy escapes, the astronomical luck on the metroids, etc.  Are these just too boring to discuss?  :(

Lastly, I would like to improve this someday, but I have no idea when I'll have the time to do so; it might be just a few months or maybe a year or more.

Frezy_man

2009-05-20 01:03:40 pm

bläää

I am not sure if the verifiers and member of the site really have that knowledge of the game. I have pulled of a 34 minute run myself but I still do not have the knowledge to discuss some of the rooms very close Tongue

I always waited for Mecha Ridley to swap his claw once before shooting the missiles. But that is probably because I am not very active at Mk2k and is always playing the game on busses Grin

Anyways. to bad interesting runs like these one is rarely posted. This made my day. Some new neat tricks for me. I loved the Ridley fight, Kraid Fight, tourian. And that there was some rooms for mistake so that someone eventually can pull off an even crazier time. I had hard to Imagine a time under 28 when I watched your SS.

And about the shoulder buttons at SP. The quality really sucks. My "R" button have been changed two times. Thanks to the M:ZM gaming. What should I have done without the guarantee Smiley

Good job.

JaggerG

2009-05-22 02:01:58 pm

Jumping Turtle

I usually let Iron Ted attack first, too, just hoping he does so immediately.

It kind of surprised me that he played it safe against the larva by hanging tight until the ripper got into position instead of trying to take it out beforehand, but I can understand playing it safe at the end of such a long run. Also his strategy for Ridley confused me. I expected injections of fury.

Considering the massive amount of luck he had in the Metroid section, it probably canceled out probably every minor mistake he made that far. Dfang's Brinstar Spark could probably have negated the need for such extreme luck, though. As for saving options, this is a trickier run, so I'm heavily impressed that he only saved 2 times. For future runs I figure good choices for your level of consistency is the first Norfair save, the save before Kraid, the last save in Tourian, then right before the Chozo Test. It lets you try for a better Hive room, diagonal bomb jumping after Grip, a better Larva fight, a short segment for the Super collection, less reliance on Metroid luck, and better attempts against the last couple bosses/escape. There's also a sexy Pre-Ice room shinespark, but that's probably even harder than getting the Brinstar super missile. I haven't really tested the Brinstar spark trick much, but I imagine it's approximately VERY hard. >_<

Also, someone mentioned taking a second to save to clean up some mistakes. I should clarify that continuing from a save takes six seconds, so it has to be six seconds of cleaning up the segment to make up for it. You can't exactly go Save-Happy.

I usually let Iron Ted attack first, too, just hoping he does so immediately.

It kind of surprised me that he played it safe against the larva by hanging tight until the ripper got into position instead of trying to take it out beforehand, but I can understand playing it safe at the end of such a long run. Also his strategy for Ridley confused me. I expected injections of fury.

Considering the massive amount of luck he had in the Metroid section, it probably canceled out probably every minor mistake he made that far. Dfang's Brinstar Spark could probably have negated the need for such extreme luck, though. As for saving options, this is a trickier run, so I'm heavily impressed that he only saved 2 times. For future runs I figure good choices for your level of consistency is the first Norfair save, the save before Kraid, the last save in Tourian, then right before the Chozo Test. It lets you try for a better Hive room, diagonal bomb jumping after Grip, a better Larva fight, a short segment for the Super collection, less reliance on Metroid luck, and better attempts against the last couple bosses/escape. There's also a sexy Pre-Ice room shinespark, but that's probably even harder than getting the Brinstar super missile. I haven't really tested the Brinstar spark trick much, but I imagine it's approximately VERY hard. >_<

Also, someone mentioned taking a second to save to clean up some mistakes. I should clarify that continuing from a save takes six seconds, so it has to be six seconds of cleaning up the segment to make up for it. You can't exactly go Save-Happy.

spidey-widey

2009-05-29 07:37:06 pm

Quote from JaggerG:

It kind of surprised me that he played it safe against the larva by hanging tight until the ripper got into position instead of trying to take it out beforehand, but I can understand playing it safe at the end of such a long run. Also his strategy for Ridley confused me. I expected injections of fury.

Larva: Yes, I was basically just playing it safe at the cost of a second or two.

I don't think the kamikaze style Ridley fight is really any faster but I'll gladly try it again if you think otherwise.

Quote from JaggerG:

For future runs I figure good choices for your level of consistency is the first Norfair save, the save before Kraid, the last save in Tourian, then right before the Chozo Test. It lets you try for a better Hive room, diagonal bomb jumping after Grip, a better Larva fight, a short segment for the Super collection, less reliance on Metroid luck, and better attempts against the last couple bosses/escape.

I'll likely try something like this in the future. Having to rely less on luck/refills will be very nice.

Quote from Frezy_man:

I am not sure if the verifiers and member of the site really have that knowledge of the game. I have pulled of a 34 minute run myself but I still do not have the knowledge to discuss some of the rooms very close

That's a good point. It seems to me that the verifiers should all be highly experienced and qualified, although I suppose there might not be very many Zero Mission players like that anymore. Such a pity.

Quote from Frezy_man:

I always waited for Mecha Ridley to swap his claw once before shooting the missiles.

Yes, that's how most of us speedrunners do it. I'm just complaining that Mecha Ridley didn't swipe right away, significantly lengthening the fight.

[quote="JaggerG"]It kind of surprised me that he played it safe against the larva by hanging tight until the ripper got into position instead of trying to take it out beforehand, but I can understand playing it safe at the end of such a long run. Also his strategy for Ridley confused me. I expected injections of fury.
[/quote]

Larva: Yes, I was basically just playing it safe at the cost of a second or two.

I don't think the kamikaze style Ridley fight is really any faster but I'll gladly try it again if you think otherwise.

[quote="JaggerG"]For future runs I figure good choices for your level of consistency is the first Norfair save, the save before Kraid, the last save in Tourian, then right before the Chozo Test. It lets you try for a better Hive room, diagonal bomb jumping after Grip, a better Larva fight, a short segment for the Super collection, less reliance on Metroid luck, and better attempts against the last couple bosses/escape.[/quote]

I'll likely try something like this in the future.  Having to rely less on luck/refills will be [i]very[/i] nice.

[quote="Frezy_man"]I am not sure if the verifiers and member of the site really have that knowledge of the game. I have pulled of a 34 minute run myself but I still do not have the knowledge to discuss some of the rooms very close [/quote]

That's a good point.  It seems to me that the verifiers should all be highly experienced and qualified, although I suppose there might not be very many Zero Mission players like that anymore.  Such a pity.

[quote="Frezy_man"]I always waited for Mecha Ridley to swap his claw once before shooting the missiles.[/quote]

Yes, that's how most of us speedrunners do it.  I'm just complaining that Mecha Ridley didn't swipe right away, significantly lengthening the fight.

Deathborn668

2009-05-29 08:16:20 pm

Quote from Lord_VG:

Quote:

Segment 1--Standard Zero Mission fare here. Got a ton of easy and/or required items and headed to Ridley for some more easy collection. No mistakes here.

I would like to know what this verifier was smoking, because I would consider the hive room a horrible mistake. Man, that room was ugly.

That would be me. I've done low% runs, and that room without the Long Beam is a total bitch to do perfectly. Yes, it was ugly and could have been done a bit better (especially so early in the run) but it wasn't run-ruining awful. It was fine since, again, perfection in the hive room is hard to achieve.