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Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MegaMan9.html

Any% SS run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
This run employs the Tornado 1st route, which is supposed to be superior to the early Hornet route.  The run was thoroughly unconvincing on this point because of hesitation and multiple errors in the boss battles.  I felt a pervasive lack of confidence throughout the run when mistakes were made and in almost every boss fight.  I thought this was at its worst with Hornet Man when he took almost a full second to fire at the robot master's back.

Worst of all would be Wily Machine 2, only because the runner took a hit from the tail of all things.

I like some of the stage runs, but the boss fights wrecked all hope of this run seeing the light of day.  The luck he had with Galaxy Man was for naught I'm afraid.  I might be more inclined to get into technical improvements and minor nitpicks when the execution issues are resolved.


Quote:
The A/V was fine, and I noticed no cheating, but in my opinion, there is too much sloppiness, not enough usage of "riskier" strategies to save time (the runner himself admits this), too much menu hesitation (particularly during the Wily Stages, during Wily 4 boss, the runner didn't seem to know what to do), and in general just a lack of confidence from the runner.

The biggest thing for me is the Magma Man stage - you can skip the flame pillars by shooting Concrete Shot high enough that the flame hits the Shots as they come down, leaving enough room for Mega Man to walk under them.

Boss battles could also use some work, particularly the Wily Stage ones.

Reject.. and hope to see another submission. I think you're almost there, but the execution needs to tighten up.


Quote:
This run is a 9 second improvement over the 21:37. But it's a mere 1 second faster than ZED's 21:29 which he never submitted. That run still fought Splash Woman first, and this new one uses the Tornado first route. Tornado first should save way more than one measly second, even on new game. You can tell just from looking at other videos that do Tornado first, the best of which I recall is 1:50. This run takes 2 minutes. About half of the loss here is because he doesn't get to the first rain room quick enough. That happens because of the room prior; he doesn't damage boost off the Sniper Joe properly. And that makes all the difference. If done properly, one is able to just make the second set of spinning things without having to wait. The other half comes from the boss fight, which is a luck factor. But it's the first stage, you can afford to start over at this point. He needs to set his standards higher. Throughout the run. And in general really; I can say the same about the Mega Man 10 run the runner did a few months ago.

Splash Woman was okay, but I feel the boss fight could be better. He mashes on the boss which really isn't a good idea, and he gets hit a couple times too many.

His Concrete Man time is two seconds behind ZED's even though he has T Blow to speed a couple things up. Screwing up the one T Blow shortcut definitely had a part in that. Jumping into the second elephant's ball was a pretty dumb mistake. And there's a better strategy for the elephants that MD9 used in his 19:18 NG+ that can be used here; Laser Trident at close range, pause cancel, repeat. Annoying, I know, but it saves quite a bit of game time. He's not using T Blow to the fullest either. He got a lucky refill early on, but missing that shortcut negated that. And he still had a Blow left over. He could've used that on a ladder or the first hit on the boss. Boss fight was improvable by a bit; there were a couple times he wasn't hurting him at all.

The first hit he takes in Magma Man's stage was easily avoidable. He barely ever jumps to freeze the magma pillars with C Shot. That really adds up over the course of the stage. Especially for the ones that you can just walk under when their frozen. After the Changkey Dragon, no way is the top route better than the bottom. Having to abort his plan is painful. Hitting Magma Man inbetween T Blows with regular shots sounds like a good idea on paper, but I think it actually screwed him out of a double hit.

Nice save on the clock flower. Again, he has a T Blow left over. Hornet Man fight's okay, but how can pausing worsen your timing? Sorry if I'm going off the runner's comments a lot here, but I just have to ask these things.

Why no C Shots on the first 2 ladders in Galaxy?  Missing the RC halfway through sucks. His fight was great.

RJing over the first corridor of Jewel Man's stage? I call that pussing out. It may be easier, but it's a bit slower. Stop using real time strats! Everything else was okay. Off topic, it irks me that the runner calls BHB Galaxy Bomb. It's such an easy name to remember, how can you get it wrong?

I'm not liking the safe approach in Plug. He's not doing things ZED did which were clearly faster. Which is why this stage is actually 3 seconds slower than that in the 21:37. Yet again he had a T Blow left over. Plug Man gave him a bad pattern, and he was a little twitchy. Now this run completes the first 8 stages in 12:49. That's 13 seconds quicker than the 21:37. But that really should be a larger number, what with having to wait in Tornado and his Concrete Man and Plug Man being slower than the current record.

In Wily 1 I've always believed it's better to Mega Coil over the big shield guy instead of just Rush Coiling into him. I don't like the use of BHB on the screen after that, either, cause BHB is more valuable elsewhere. There are quite a few weapon uses throughout the castle that I disagree with, really. Missing on the Changkey Dragon hurts. First Wily boss fight was really icky. His Plug Ball pacing was too slow.

What was up with the 2 Jewel Satellites in the second room of Wily 2? That was just wasteful. Pussed out before the clock flower, but gets a perfect fight. The last couple rooms in that stage weren't handled very cleanly. Good job getting 3 hits on the tail first round. It is possible to kill the head in one round. The runner really should learn how.

Nothing bad to say about Wily 3.

Bad call on the Concrete refight. There's definitely a method to using Hornet Chaser on Splash Woman. Pretty sure it doesn't involve shooting all 3 right away. Very bad Hornet Man. He should've reacted to that miss quicker. Same as before on Magma Man, I think the extra shots prevented the double hit. Icky Tornado Man. Some more bad patterns from Plug. Misses a couple eggs on Wily's first form. Second form is a train wreck, though I do like the idea of hitting with Mazooka after a C Shot. I don't know why he's switching back and forth between pauses on the Wily Capsule. It's just unnecessary. He didn't need Rush Coil after the first teleport, he could've just jumped and hit him with Plug Balls.

Video and audio are fine.

The route is better, but the execution is worse. The time is an improvement, but barely so, and it can be improved a lot more. The runner needs to use better strategies and improve execution. Reject.


Quote:
A/V quality = fine.
No cheating detected!

Tornado - Small mistakes throughout, but pretty good level run overall. Boss battle could have gone better, but it wasn't terrible.
Splash - Level went near-perfect, which says a lot, as this is arguably the most difficult (and critical) level of the Tornado-first route. Boss could have been a little faster.
Concrete - The stage was pretty bad, with slow elephants and the missed tornado jump. Boss went decently, though.
Magma - Very sloppy level execution with lots of mistakes throughout. After the rough spots on the previous level, I have a hard time believing that the runner didn't feel compelled to reset after this stage. The boss fight was okay.
Hornet - Pretty good level and boss, aside from the bad clock flower luck.
Gravity - Level was okay, except for the botched Rush Coil jump. There should have been a lot more concrete shot usage - there's absolutely no excuse for getting to the boss with full ammo. Boss fight was near-perfect.
Jewel - Level and boss were decent.
Plug - Level was pretty good, but the boss could have gone better.
Wily 1 - Level was okay, but the boss fight was a complete cluster-f.
Wily 2 - Level was pretty good, save for a few mistakes near the end. The boss fight was so-so.
Wily 3 - Pretty good level, near-perfect boss.
Wily 4 - The level portion was okay, just a couple mistakes. Boss refights were mostly okay, with the exception of tornado man and minor mistakes on concrete and hornet. The final boss went pretty well, except for the costly mistake in phase 2.

Conclusion: Overall, this is a rather unimpressive gain over the current record. The route change accounts for almost all of the time that was saved, while the number of mistakes keeps it from being as large an improvement as it should have been. Had this been the first run submitted for the game, I'd be less willing to accept... however, as it does beat our current record, I'm inclined to do so. I realize that I'm in the minority on this, and not everyone will agree with my reasoning, but an improvement's an improvement. If it's a subpar improvement, then hopefully it will just encourage future improvements sooner.

Verdict: Accept.


Decision: Reject

Reason: The new route could save much more time. This run is just too sloppy Sad

This run will be available for a month. PM me for a link.
Thread title:  
Willing to teach you the impossible
After watching this, I agree this is a bit on the sloppy side, But I can also see this being a great first SS run for SDA. That said, I do agree with the reject. Mostly because of how AMAZING the segmented run is. And most of the slop was really easy fixes and could be cleaned up rather easily.
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote from Heidrage:
After watching this, I agree this is a bit on the sloppy side, But I can also see this being a great first SS run for SDA. That said, I do agree with the reject. Mostly because of how AMAZING the segmented run is. And most of the slop was really easy fixes and could be cleaned up rather easily.


Um, what?

Quote:
Best time: single-segment 0:21:37 by Steven 'Master ZED' Ellis on 2008-12-08.


That looks to me like a Single Segment run of Mega Man 9 that's any%.  Did you forget about that?  Or Satoryu's run (that was obsoleted)?
from red to blue
MegaDestructor9's segmented run which he didn't submit for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MegaDestructor9
My name is unpronounceable
I was under the impression that the accepted categories for MM9 were SS and IL's. 
We all scream for Eyes Cream
IL's would be the Time Attack mode while Segmented would be the main game. Time Attack gives you all weapons for all stages so it would be different.
Not a walrus
Mega Man games just tend to not get segmented, but in most cases (everything past MM1) there's no reason they couldn't be.
Edit history:
puwexil: 2011-06-14 11:29:49 pm
Professional Second Banana
Using passwords to start each segment after the first would have to be allowed in order to segment MM2-7 or X1-X3 on NES/SNES.  The PS2/GC collections have a save feature for each game, but also gameplay differences that would put them in a different run category.

I'd have a hard time seeing much value in segmenting older MM games though, since there's generally only 1 password for Wily's castle - not for each individual level.
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote from puwexil:
Using passwords to start each segment after the first would have to be allowed in order to segment MM2-7 or X1-X3 on NES/SNES.  The PS2/GC collections have a save feature for each game, but also gameplay differences that would put them in a different run category.

I'd have a hard time seeing much value in segmenting older MM games though, since there's generally only 1 password for Wily's castle - not for each individual level.


Well, it's kinda like Rosenkruzestillette.  Though at least a later version of the game gave you one after the 1st castle (the original release didn't, if I recall correctly).
You can segment the older games if you play on the Anniversary Collection. That version uses auto-save features between levels so you can continue on without passwords (although as I understand it, all that does is save the passwords themselves).

If you need ANYTHING extra beyond just the weapons for the run (specifically, any energy tanks), then the run is not viable segmented.
Edit history:
Kryal: 2011-06-15 11:28:48 am
from red to blue
Quote from Sir VG:
Quote from puwexil:
Using passwords to start each segment after the first would have to be allowed in order to segment MM2-7 or X1-X3 on NES/SNES.  The PS2/GC collections have a save feature for each game, but also gameplay differences that would put them in a different run category.

I'd have a hard time seeing much value in segmenting older MM games though, since there's generally only 1 password for Wily's castle - not for each individual level.


Well, it's kinda like Rosenkruzestillette.  Though at least a later version of the game gave you one after the 1st castle (the original release didn't, if I recall correctly).


In RKS the earlier versions still accepted the password for Iris' castle, but it was just never given out.
that Metroidvania guy
What is this rule about needing to have a battery/mem card save in order to segment? MM5GB only uses passwords and that run was still submitted in segments and accepted. >_>

http://speeddemosarchive.com/MegaMan5GB.html
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote from romscout:
What is this rule about needing to have a battery/mem card save in order to segment? MM5GB only uses passwords and that run was still submitted in segments and accepted. >_>

http://speeddemosarchive.com/MegaMan5GB.html


I don't know what you're referring to, rom.  Rosenkruzestillette uses passwords and is on the site.  The thing about segmenting MM games is that you the Wily levels don't have separate passwords.  MM4-6 will have massively long final segments. Tongue
that Metroidvania guy
Yea, that's a given, but if that section is so long and you wanted to have it be optimized then segmenting would be especially important anyway. Also why did I even make that other post? I blame Lenophis for streaming SD3. Also I'm tired, bye.

As I recall, you wanted me to stream SD3. Tongue

Quote:
[22:58:26] <romscout> stream something plz
[22:59:46] <Lenophis> eating first
[22:59:52] <Lenophis> then sure
[22:59:54] <Lenophis> game?
[23:01:43] <romscout> seiken densetsu 3
that Metroidvania guy
dude I was at an all time new record for boredom