Kung Fu Heroes - December 27, 2016

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2016-12-27 03:11:00 pm

2016-12-13 01:02:24 pm

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Kung Fu Heroes (ntscus) (nes) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to 'TheBlueWizard'!

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2016-12-13 01:02:24 pm

Run Information

Kung Fu Heroes (ntscus) (nes) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/kungfuheroes-20161207/KungFuHeroes747WR_HQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

ktwo

2016-12-15 02:23:27 pm

1-1
- G-ball
- Punch power-up (1)
- Miracle kicks (1)
One Miracle kick was used, which seemed to be in order and saved a little time. The G-ball was clearly also put into good use. One or two enemies trolled a bit, but overall it was well and efficiently played. However, the last jump towards the exit could have been done diagonally for a small time save without risk.

1-2
- Punch power-up (2)
- S. Temple Mark A
- Money bag (1)
Not much content, but looked well played. However, again a missed diagonal jump opportunity (right at the start).

Warp
Completely unnecessary time loss of one second by walking in straight lines, instead of jumping twice diagonally.

3-1
- Punch power-up (3)
- S. Temple Mark B
- Scroll A, moneybag
- Miracle kicks (2)
- G-ball
One Miracle kick was used efficiently. The G-ball was also a time saver. The level was well played. However, guess what, a diagonal jump opportunity was missed (towards the exit)...

3-2
Short level, but no issues spotted. Except... for a missed diagonal jump opportunity (at the start)...
- Mirror
- Sword

Warp
Same time loss as in the previous warp... Another second down the drain for no reason...

5-1
- Mirror
- Money bag (3)
- Money bag (4)
Unless there is some undocumented use for collecting the mirror again, this was a an unprovoqued one-second mistake. There was also a double-KO death, which looked extremely unlucky. The time loss was small though since the character re-spawned next to an enemy. It's not too surprising that there are a few unintentional deaths in this game though. Either way, not a huge time loss. There is a G-ball in this stage as well, but considering how efficiently the enemies were disposed of and spread out, I'm not sure it would have saved any time. The last stretch to the exit could have been done with a... diagonal jump...

5-2
Straight to the warp, not much to say.

Warp
No diagonal jumps... :-( (this is the last time I'm mentioning missed diagonal jump opportunities, even though this was not the last occasion that was missed)

7-1
- P-ball
One Miracle kick was used. It didn't look entirely necessary, but not wrong either. Other than that, not much to comment on. Collecting the P-ball was well worth it.

7-2
- Money bag (5)
- Money bag (6)
One death that cost 3-4 seconds. However, that might just be the price when trying to be aggressive in RNG-heavy games like this. The rest looked fine.

7-3
Well played. One miracle kick used. I assume it was by accident, as it didn't look like it was necessary at that spot.

7-4
Here the money was converted into the P-ball, which allowed for a few easy kills. The run's third death happened against the Uni-gon. Those enemies are pretty annoying though when you have to play aggressively, so also this death is just part of what the game throws at you.

8-1
Well played.

8-2
The first Uni-gon was dealt with perfectly. Then followed some non-perfect execution that still ended up getting the job done without too much time lost. However, a miracle jump to the second Uni-gon then ended up incurring the fourth death, which I believe was the reason why it was decided to wait it out instead of trying to defeat it. That turned out to be pretty costly. Maybe 8-9 seconds lost compared to successfully taking it out. Since the death count was at 11 and considering your lives are reset to 3 for the next level if you're below that, I think this was a bit conservatively played. If it had been on the last life, I could have better understood that kind of hesitation though.

8-3
This stage is a good deal more manageable than 8-2 and the runner blasted through it without problems.

8-4
- Scroll B
- G-ball
I don't really see what scroll B does and the gamefaqs guide doesn't seem to know that either. None of the other playthroughs or speedruns of Kung Fu Heroes pick up that scroll, so there is definitely a question mark regarding that pick-up.
Anyways, the first Uni-gon was taken care of perfectly, similar to the first one in 8-1. The next part looked like a bit of bad luck, where the dragon just wouldn't give up chasing the runner and ended up inflicting another death for a few seconds lost. Then two Uni-gons appeared in rapid succession. The first one was again dealt with perfectly. The setup for the second one looked right as well, but bad luck struck and resulted in another death. Down to the last life and with a Dragon on screen, the runner was forced to play it conservatively and still barely escaped unscathed. While having escaped the Dragon and with the G-ball active, I don't see why it wasn't used until the Dragon had disappeared though? It could have been used at 7:48. Now the runner waited another 5 seconds to nail the last enemy in a spot, where it wasn't even needed to use fireballs.

Overall, this is a bit of a tricky one in my eyes. This is far, far better than the previous fastest run. It uses more or less the same pick-up strats as that run (and they look sound to me), but it's better in every imaginable way in terms of execution. It's also clear from watching that there is some practice behind this run that has led to efficient ways of aggressively dealing with the enemies. Still, there are many questionable parts and decisions in the run. Things that look like glaring oversights that could have been corrected and implemented with virtually no risk involved. Despite the potential for improvement, I'd say this is a good display of what this game should look like when speedrunned. While I very much hope the runner continues to work on this game to push the time further down, I'm gonna a say

Accept

1-1
- G-ball
- Punch power-up (1)
- Miracle kicks (1)
One Miracle kick was used, which seemed to be in order and saved a little time. The G-ball was clearly also put into good use. One or two enemies trolled a bit, but overall it was well and efficiently played. However, the last jump towards the exit could have been done diagonally for a small time save without risk.

1-2
- Punch power-up (2)
- S. Temple Mark A
- Money bag (1)
Not much content, but looked well played. However, again a missed diagonal jump opportunity (right at the start).

Warp
Completely unnecessary time loss of one second by walking in straight lines, instead of jumping twice diagonally.

3-1
- Punch power-up (3)
- S. Temple Mark B
- Scroll A, moneybag
- Miracle kicks (2)
- G-ball
One Miracle kick was used efficiently. The G-ball was also a time saver. The level was well played. However, guess what, a diagonal jump opportunity was missed (towards the exit)...

3-2
Short level, but no issues spotted. Except... for a missed diagonal jump opportunity (at the start)...
- Mirror
- Sword

Warp
Same time loss as in the previous warp... Another second down the drain for no reason...

5-1
- Mirror
- Money bag (3)
- Money bag (4)
Unless there is some undocumented use for collecting the mirror again, this was a an unprovoqued one-second mistake. There was also a double-KO death, which looked extremely unlucky. The time loss was small though since the character re-spawned next to an enemy. It's not too surprising that there are a few unintentional deaths in this game though. Either way, not a huge time loss. There is a G-ball in this stage as well, but considering how efficiently the enemies were disposed of and spread out, I'm not sure it would have saved any time. The last stretch to the exit could have been done with a... diagonal jump...

5-2
Straight to the warp, not much to say.

Warp
No diagonal jumps... :-(  (this is the last time I'm mentioning missed diagonal jump opportunities, even though this was not the last occasion that was missed)

7-1
- P-ball
One Miracle kick was used. It didn't look entirely necessary, but not wrong either. Other than that, not much to comment on. Collecting the P-ball was well worth it.

7-2
- Money bag (5)
- Money bag (6)
One death that cost 3-4 seconds. However, that might just be the price when trying to be aggressive in RNG-heavy games like this. The rest looked fine.

7-3
Well played. One miracle kick used. I assume it was by accident, as it didn't look like it was necessary at that spot.

7-4
Here the money was converted into the P-ball, which allowed for a few easy kills. The run's third death happened against the Uni-gon. Those enemies are pretty annoying though when you have to play aggressively, so also this death is just part of what the game throws at you.

8-1
Well played.

8-2
The first Uni-gon was dealt with perfectly. Then followed some non-perfect execution that still ended up getting the job done without too much time lost. However, a miracle jump to the second Uni-gon then ended up incurring the fourth death, which I believe was the reason why it was decided to wait it out instead of trying to defeat it. That turned out to be pretty costly. Maybe 8-9 seconds lost compared to successfully taking it out. Since the death count was at 11 and considering your lives are reset to 3 for the next level if you're below that, I think this was a bit conservatively played. If it had been on the last life, I could have better understood that kind of hesitation though.

8-3
This stage is a good deal more manageable than 8-2 and the runner blasted through it without problems.

8-4
- Scroll B
- G-ball
I don't really see what scroll B does and the gamefaqs guide doesn't seem to know that either. None of the other playthroughs or speedruns of Kung Fu Heroes pick up that scroll, so there is definitely a question mark regarding that pick-up. 
Anyways, the first Uni-gon was taken care of perfectly, similar to the first one in 8-1. The next part looked like a bit of bad luck, where the dragon just wouldn't give up chasing the runner and ended up inflicting another death for a few seconds lost. Then two Uni-gons appeared in rapid succession. The first one was again dealt with perfectly. The setup for the second one looked right as well, but bad luck struck and resulted in another death. Down to the last life and with a Dragon on screen, the runner was forced to play it conservatively and still barely escaped unscathed. While having escaped the Dragon and with the G-ball active, I don't see why it wasn't used until the Dragon had disappeared though? It could have been used at 7:48. Now the runner waited another 5 seconds to nail the last enemy in a spot, where it wasn't even needed to use fireballs.

Overall, this is a bit of a tricky one in my eyes. This is far, far better than the previous fastest run. It uses more or less the same pick-up strats as that run (and they look sound to me), but it's better in every imaginable way in terms of execution. It's also clear from watching that there is some practice behind this run that has led to efficient ways of aggressively dealing with the enemies. Still, there are many questionable parts and decisions in the run. Things that look like glaring oversights that could have been corrected and implemented with virtually no risk involved. Despite the potential for improvement, I'd say this is a good display of what this game should look like when speedrunned. While I very much hope the runner continues to work on this game to push the time further down, I'm gonna a say

Accept

8BitSteve

Edit history:

8BitSteve: 2016-12-15 03:20:37 pm

2016-12-15 03:19:50 pm

www.8BitSteve.com

I appreciate the accept KTWO. I will address some of the issues you brought up starting with the elephant in the room.

Diagonal jumping: This may sound weird but it had not even occurred to me to diagonal jump. I am sure you can figure this out but are we even sure it's faster than walking? It probably is but I will implement it as I work on this game more.

5-1: When attacking enemies that are on top of hidden items or floating items the enemies are invincible until those are taken care of. I activate the mirror to prevent a pattern where an enemy walks over the hidden mirror and I have to wait to kill it. I barely go out of my way to collect this mirror and it prevents a reset with some patterns. The G-ball is mostly useless on the level because it can only effectively kill vipers.

7-1: The miracle kick was necessary but does save a bit of time when traveling.

7-2: The hit boxes are very strange in this game and the enemy movement patterns are mostly random. Because of the multiple shooting enemies and the dragon heads that I can only kill by jumping this level is tough to avoid dying. I can certainly play better in the future but I am not gonna lose sleep over a death on this stage.

8-2: I got pretty good RNG on that first Unigon. Something to keep in mind on the second Unigon is that I can only attack him slightly above his head. If he spawns on the top of the screen I can't even attack him unless I jump down. If he spawns on the bottom of the screen and moves up at all that prevents me from attacking him due to the river and the fireballs. It takes 5 hits to kill the unigon and after I messed up the jump after the miracle kick he was in the worst position possible and I decided to not risk it anymore because I was so far ahead.

8-4: I made a large mistake with the dragon and wasted way too much time running from it. It would have been faster to just die and I had several escape paths that I failed to utilize. Again I pick up the item in the center to prevent it from causing problems for me later in the level. There are so many random elements on 8-4 and while this is not ideal it is still among the four fastest times on 8-4 I have had in over 3 months of attempts.

I appreciate the accept KTWO. I will address some of the issues you brought up starting with the elephant in the room.

Diagonal jumping: This may sound weird but it had not even occurred to me to diagonal jump. I am sure you can figure this out but are we even sure it's faster than walking? It probably is but I will implement it as I work on this game more.

5-1: When attacking enemies that are on top of hidden items or floating items the enemies are invincible until those are taken care of. I activate the mirror to prevent a pattern where an enemy walks over the hidden mirror and I have to wait to kill it. I barely go out of my way to collect this mirror and it prevents a reset with some patterns. The G-ball is mostly useless on the level because it can only effectively kill vipers.

7-1: The miracle kick was necessary but does save a bit of time when traveling.

7-2: The hit boxes are very strange in this game and the enemy movement patterns are mostly random. Because of the multiple shooting enemies and the dragon heads that I can only kill by jumping this level is tough to avoid dying. I can certainly play better in the future but I am not gonna lose sleep over a death on this stage.

8-2: I got pretty good RNG on that first Unigon. Something to keep in mind on the second Unigon is that I can only attack him slightly above his head. If he spawns on the top of the screen I can't even attack him unless I jump down. If he spawns on the bottom of the screen and moves up at all that prevents me from attacking him due to the river and the fireballs. It takes 5 hits to kill the unigon and after I messed up the jump after the miracle kick he was in the worst position possible and I decided to not risk it anymore because I was so far ahead.

8-4: I made a large mistake with the dragon and wasted way too much time running from it. It would have been faster to just die and I had several escape paths that I failed to utilize. Again I pick up the item in the center to prevent it from causing problems for me later in the level. There are so many random elements on 8-4 and while this is not ideal it is still among the four fastest times on 8-4 I have had in over 3 months of attempts.

ktwo

2016-12-16 08:17:51 am

Re diagonal jumping. I have to start by asking you something in return. Aren't you using emulator to practice and try things out? Your question takes literally just a few seconds to find the answer to with easy-to-use emulators like fceux (and the answer is yes, diagonal movement saves time over horizontal+vertical movement in this game). I understand if not everyone bothers to time all details for a casual speedrun, but the level at which you're playing this game is far beyond the point where it's worth comparing the time of different strategies. And if we talk specifically about the warps, then they are setup perfectly for a miracle kick from your starting position to the warp hole.

5-1: Ah, I see. Makes sense. However, then I suggest you break those hidden items with a jump, which is a little faster than standing still and punching. Not much faster, but faster.

8-2: I rewatched that part and I see what you mean. Maybe even with a miracle kick, it wouldn't have been possible to get back into position to deal damage again.

8-4: Yeah, this stage looks very tricky and random to do well in. I guess with enough practice, you might get a kind of muscle memory sense of what to do in different situations. Like you said, in hindsight it looks like you had some options to get out of the situation.

Re diagonal jumping. I have to start by asking you something in return. Aren't you using emulator to practice and try things out? Your question takes literally just a few seconds to find the answer to with easy-to-use emulators like fceux (and the answer is yes, diagonal movement saves time over horizontal+vertical movement in this game). I understand if not everyone bothers to time all details for a casual speedrun, but the level at which you're playing this game is far beyond the point where it's worth comparing the time of different strategies. And if we talk specifically about the warps, then they are setup perfectly for a miracle kick from your starting position to the warp hole.

5-1: Ah, I see. Makes sense. However, then I suggest you break those hidden items with a jump, which is a little faster than standing still and punching. Not much faster, but faster.

8-2: I rewatched that part and I see what you mean. Maybe even with a miracle kick, it wouldn't have been possible to get back into position to deal damage again.

8-4: Yeah, this stage looks very tricky and random to do well in. I guess with enough practice, you might get a kind of muscle memory sense of what to do in different situations. Like you said, in hindsight it looks like you had some options to get out of the situation.

8BitSteve

2016-12-17 12:11:13 pm

www.8BitSteve.com

I apologize for my previous remark regarding if diagonal jumping is faster or not. It clearly is and my remarks were kind of insulting honestly. I am new to speed running but I have been playing for a long time and I am a YouTuber. I appreciate all the feedback immensely. I want to become the best speed runner I can possibly be and I know that criticism and collaboration are are part of doing that. It does make me feel good to hear that you recognize the amount of planning, time, and acquired skill it took to get me to the point the run is at. With the additions discussed above the time can be significantly lower and with just a bit more luck on the Unigons on 8-2 and general luck and execution on 8-4 sub 7 might even be possible. KTWO you are obviously a seasoned runner and well respected in the community and SDA is in my opinion the last bastion of truly credible and verified runs. I want to contribute and help SDA grow and become as popular as it was when I was introduced to it about 4 years ago. Thanks again and I hope this run gets accepted.

LotBlind

2016-12-26 09:56:40 am

Just to be clear, despite ktwo's suggested improvements, you're not currently continuing work on this? I see it's pretty short... whatever, here's my verification then.

Some basic generic notes wouldn't have went to waste: I'm guessing the number of guys you need to whack in each one is fixed?

That's a pretty interesting game all in all! Graphics-wise for starters (I think those big enemies are actually 2 sprites?)

No real big blunders, just missing diagonal movement as per ktwo. A/V good.

accept

PS: If you want to help SDA, make sure you follow the verification thread, both the private verification listing and public, and give input on anything you know even a little bit about.

SDAVerification

2016-12-27 03:11:01 pm

Decision posted.

8BitSteve

2017-01-05 10:57:25 pm

www.8BitSteve.com

Quote from LotBlind:

Just to be clear, despite ktwo's suggested improvements, you're not currently continuing work on this? I see it's pretty short... whatever, here's my verification then.

Some basic generic notes wouldn't have went to waste: I'm guessing the number of guys you need to whack in each one is fixed?

That's a pretty interesting game all in all! Graphics-wise for starters (I think those big enemies are actually 2 sprites?)

No real big blunders, just missing diagonal movement as per ktwo. A/V good.

accept

PS: If you want to help SDA, make sure you follow the verification thread, both the private verification listing and public, and give input on anything you know even a little bit about.

I will be working on improving this at some point very soon. I finished another run of a different game I am about to submit and I am very close on another game. You are correct that there is a static number of enemy kills before the door opens which is exactly 12. Thanks both of you.

[quote="LotBlind"]Just to be clear, despite ktwo's suggested improvements, you're not currently continuing work on this? I see it's pretty short... whatever, here's my verification then.

Some basic generic notes wouldn't have went to waste: I'm guessing the number of guys you need to whack in each one is fixed?

That's a pretty interesting game all in all! Graphics-wise for starters (I think those big enemies are actually 2 sprites?)

No real big blunders, just missing diagonal movement as per ktwo. A/V good.

[i][u][b]accept[/b][/u][/i]

PS: If you want to help SDA, make sure you follow the verification thread, both the private verification listing and public, and give input on anything you know even a little bit about.[/quote]

I will be working on improving this at some point very soon. I finished another run of a different game I am about to submit and I am very close on another game. You are correct that there is a static number of enemy kills before the door opens which is exactly 12. Thanks both of you.