Hitman: Blood Money - January 16th, 2010

2010-01-16 01:29:21 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/HitmanBloodMoney.html

Mark 'ExplodingCabbage' Amery's new game + individual level runs on Professional difficulty

Verifier Responses

Quote:

Verifier: so... the run
Verifier: not much to say, all the missions are extremely optimized
Verifier: the only one i could see improved is Amendment XXV, the mine could be thrown a bit sooner
Verifier: it would take much more luck and only save maybe 2 seconds, so it's fine by me
Verifier: the thing i don't like about this run is that the player never shows that it's on pro by trying to save/load during a mission. It's not like that actually proves much, it seems like a part of a Hitman run to me
Verifier: but if the lack of that is okay for SDA, then it's okay for me
Verifier: definitely approving this, would be stupid not to do so

Quote:

Verifier: also, blood money!
Verifier: the runs are really good
Verifier: they're on the highest difficulty and, well, that difficulty deserves to be called hardest
Verifier: despite that, the runner makes a great effort, and oftentimes ends with just barely enough health to survive
Verifier: there are some impressive tactics and a few surprising tricks
Verifier: for the most part the runs are really solid but there are places you could still 'stick a needle into', but they are few and far between
Verifier: overall, they're really nice runs on a hard difficulty, and I think they deserve an accept

Quote:

Video/audio quality: No problems
Cheating: Didn't see anything.

Death of a Showman: Nice usage of shotgun to get a dead body closer to the box. I didn't see any mistake, but I think the ending part could be done slightly faster.

A Vintage Year: Heh, love this run. Just a run straight through the level killing everything on the way.

Curtains Down: Perfect.

Flatline: This is one of those levels that are really hard to verify, because I never even attempted a speedrun of Hitman 4, so I can't really confirm the stuff runner mentions in his comments apart from the reviving part. The only improvement I could see is to kill the working out guy a bit sooner.

A New Life: If SDA decides to time this run according to the game timer, then this level is perfect. If otherwise, then it would be maybe faster to kill every bodyguard on the way to target's wife instead of "bullet-time" and 2 healings.

The Murder of Crows: Probably a perfect run as well.

You Better Watch Out...: Really nice trick with the mine and probably a perfect run.

Death on a Mississippi: Easy and good run. The stair trick at the end works.

Till Death Do Us Part: Good run, nothing to comment.

A House of Cards: Since all is timed here, he only needs to detonate mines asap, which he does, everything else is not important.

A Dance with the Devil: One missed shot when killing Vaana and another one when killing CIA agent, but both mistakes barely lost any time.

Amendment XXV: For some reason he didn't use the first person view, which would be really helpful in this level, but other than that this run looks very optimized with just a couple tiny mistakes.

Requiem: One thing I don't like about this run is that he wastes entire MP5 clip on a wheelchair guy instead of going after the running guys that cause him quite a trouble. He either could have killed him with 4 bullets left in silverballs (if I see the ammo count correctly), then take MP5 and kill everyone else, or he could have ignored him, take MP5, kill everyone else, then turn around and kill him. It could save a second.

Since this is a New Game+ run, it should be a separate category, because all upgrades are available.

Verdict: ACCEPT. Apart from the last level, this run is really amazing.

Decision: Accept

Reason: Great runs with almost no mistakes.

Thread title:

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/HitmanBloodMoney.html

Mark 'ExplodingCabbage' Amery's new game + individual level runs on Professional difficulty

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]Verifier: so... the run
Verifier: not much to say, all the missions are extremely optimized
Verifier: the only one i could see improved is Amendment XXV, the mine could be thrown a bit sooner
Verifier: it would take much more luck and only save maybe 2 seconds, so it's fine by me
Verifier: the thing i don't like about this run is that the player never shows that it's on pro by trying to save/load during a mission. It's not like that actually proves much, it seems like a part of a Hitman run to me
Verifier: but if the lack of that is okay for SDA, then it's okay for me
Verifier: definitely approving this, would be stupid not to do so[/quote]

[quote]Verifier: also, blood money!
Verifier: the runs are really good
Verifier: they're on the highest difficulty and, well, that difficulty deserves to be called hardest
Verifier: despite that, the runner makes a great effort, and oftentimes ends with just barely enough health to survive
Verifier: there are some impressive tactics and a few surprising tricks
Verifier: for the most part the runs are really solid but there are places you could still 'stick a needle into', but they are few and far between
Verifier: overall, they're really nice runs on a hard difficulty, and I think they deserve an accept[/quote]

[quote]Video/audio quality: No problems
Cheating: Didn't see anything.

Death of a Showman: Nice usage of shotgun to get a dead body closer to the box. I didn't see any mistake, but I think the ending part could be done slightly faster.

A Vintage Year: Heh, love this run. Just a run straight through the level killing everything on the way.

Curtains Down: Perfect.

Flatline: This is one of those levels that are really hard to verify, because I never even attempted a speedrun of Hitman 4, so I can't really confirm the stuff runner mentions in his comments apart from the reviving part. The only improvement I could see is to kill the working out guy a bit sooner.

A New Life: If SDA decides to time this run according to the game timer, then this level is perfect. If otherwise, then it would be maybe faster to kill every bodyguard on the way to target's wife instead of "bullet-time" and 2 healings.

The Murder of Crows: Probably a perfect run as well.

You Better Watch Out...: Really nice trick with the mine and probably a perfect run.

Death on a Mississippi: Easy and good run. The stair trick at the end works.

Till Death Do Us Part: Good run, nothing to comment.

A House of Cards: Since all is timed here, he only needs to detonate mines asap, which he does, everything else is not important.

A Dance with the Devil: One missed shot when killing Vaana and another one when killing CIA agent, but both mistakes barely lost any time.

Amendment XXV: For some reason he didn't use the first person view, which would be really helpful in this level, but other than that this run looks very optimized with just a couple tiny mistakes.

Requiem: One thing I don't like about this run is that he wastes entire MP5 clip on a wheelchair guy instead of going after the running guys that cause him quite a trouble. He either could have killed him with 4 bullets left in silverballs (if I see the ammo count correctly), then take MP5 and kill everyone else, or he could have ignored him, take MP5, kill everyone else, then turn around and kill him. It could save a second.

Since this is a New Game+ run, it should be a separate category, because all upgrades are available.

Verdict: ACCEPT. Apart from the last level, this run is really amazing.[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: Great runs with almost no mistakes.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-01-16 04:18:28 pm

2010-01-16 03:40:43 pm

Thanks for verifying.

I agree with everything the first two verifiers said besides the first verifier's point about showing the difficulty. As he says it doesn't really prove anything, and I find it breaks the video flow a bit and is a nuisance to do in any level that doesn't have any downtime since then you have to reach for the menu key while running and then keep your flow when leaving the menu. Finally, this kind of rough-and-dirty method to try and prove the legitimacy of a run feels suitable for YouTube but not really for SDA (where legitimacy is assumed by default), especially since you can pretty much tell it's on Pro from enemy accuracy and damage anyway.

I do however particularly agree with the first verifier that the level with the most room for improvement is Amendment XXV.

Disagree with some of the things the third verifier, said, though (although they're mostly sensible things to say, his mistakes owe purely to the verifier lacking first-hand experience of some important things in the run). Here's the things I think he's wrong about:

Quote:

Death of a Showman: Nice usage of shotgun to get a dead body closer to the box. I didn't see any mistake, but I think the ending part could be done slightly faster.

I don't see how; besides the unfortunate wiggle right when I kill the target, which I reckon costs well under half a second, I run straight to wherever I need to go at all times. Where do you envisage the time being saved?

Quote:

Flatline: ... The only improvement I could see is to kill the working out guy a bit sooner.

Wouldn't make a difference since I'm waiting for the agent's body to reach the morgue anyway.

Quote:

The in-game timer is used. (This was settled with Mike way back when I submitted my SS.) If timing were to be done manually, all my runs would be shit due to the large amounts of time spent in menus and dragging out the bullet time as much as possible at every opportunity.

Quote:

You Better Watch Out...: Really nice trick with the mine and probably a perfect run.

Nah I think that due to a few collisions with civilians this is one of the few levels with a full second to be saved. (The only others where I think a second or more can be saved are the final three levels: ATWTD, AXXV and Requiem.)

Quote:

Amendment XXV: For some reason he didn't use the first person view, which would be really helpful in this level

I disagree strongly with this statement for a whole host of reasons. I know it was just a throwaway comment and this reply is probably going to be overkill but here are all the reasons not to use the first person view here:

Firstly, I can't use the first person view prior to throwing the mine because throwing anything forces you back to third person and the first person mode is bugged such that if you use it for a while and then swap back to third person, the camera angle changes (I'm not sure precisely what makes the camera angles 'desync' in this way but it always happens within a few tens of seconds of normal play after swapping to first person). In other words if I'd used first person prior to the mine throw, I'd have lost half a second to suddenly being jerked off course and having to correct my direction of movement.

As for using it after the mine throw, there are lots of reasons not do this:
* In first person mode, you move slower in all directions except straight forward, meaning I would've lost time while aiming at the Vice President.
* I need the higher vantage point of the third person view at the end to give me a better view of the lobby so I can quickly assess the situation and decide who to immediately shoot, whether to allow myself to be reduced to 0hp for bullet time, and who to headshot to stay alive after hitting 0hp. Also to avoid losing speed when aiming, as above.
* Taking 90 degree corners in first person mode is really awkward because since you only move at full speed when going straight forward, you lose time if you turn the view 45 degrees before you reach the corner and another 45 as you reach it (which is the natural way to take a corner in a shooter); instead, you have to yank the view 90 degrees at the instant you reach the corner, which is tricky and feels really unnatural. Also, you can't see guards around corners in first person which increases the risk of bumping into one.
* All the shots that need to be made in this level are across long corridors with high ceilings where there is plenty of time to line up the shots and the issue of 47's body obstructing your aim doesn't come into play, so third person view is fine for this.

Contrast this to Death On The Mississippi, where I did use the first person view: there, there are far fewer tight corners, the corridors have low ceilings so your body obstructs your view in third person, and you potentially have to headshot several targets at point-blank range in short, narrow doorways, where the third person view really fucks you over.

Basically, there are some circumstances where first person is appropriate and some where third person is, and AXXV is definitely the latter.

Quote:

Okay:
I guess I should have instructed Mike to send verifiers the HQ version so they could read the text. There are actually only 2 bullets left in the ballers, which is in fact only one shot since I'm dual wielding and have no quick means of turning dual wielding off. That one shot is potentially enough to kill the wheelchair guy if both bullets are headshots (although the wheelchair guy's hitbox is fucked and headshots only seem to count from behind, which makes it harder because most of his head is covered by the chair) but this is all moot because if I fire off the final shot from the ballers then 47 automatically starts reloading them and there's nothing I can do about it, and the reload time on the dual ballers is longer than the time it takes me to finish the entire level after headshotting the guards. In other words, I definitely have to grab the mp7 after headshotting the first 8 guards.

As for using the mp7 to kill the people outside, it is NOWHERE NEAR accurate or powerful enough to do the job quickly with any degree of consistency. I grab the Custom 1911 because it's the only weapon in the level with enough accuracy and firepower to reliably take out the two guards coming up the hill. If I were to use the mp7, I'd need two headshots, and have little realistic chance of getting them. Perhaps with a few hundred attempts spraying with the mp7 and hoping for headshots could prove to be a better method, though.

Thanks for making these points abouit Requiem because it's made me realise that the level is slightly more complicated than I first realised and I ought to explain these decisions in the comments. I'll have to mail Mike one final updated version of the comments before the run goes up on the site. Tongue

Quote:

Since this is a New Game+ run, it should be a separate category, because all upgrades are available.

Well, it should be labelled as New Game+, sure, but it's not really a 'seperate' category since you can't really have a non-New Game+ IL table - if you did, who would decide what upgrades and weapons you're allowed on what levels? (Availability of custom weapon upgrades depends upon your rank on previous levels, and you can only use standard weapons you've carried out of a level previously.)

Besides the ones I've quoted, I agree with your comments, though.

Thanks for verifying.

I agree with everything the first two verifiers said besides the first verifier's point about showing the difficulty. As he says it doesn't really prove anything, and I find it breaks the video flow a bit and is a nuisance to do in any level that doesn't have any downtime since then you have to reach for the menu key while running and then keep your flow when leaving the menu. Finally, this kind of rough-and-dirty method to try and prove the legitimacy of a run feels suitable for YouTube but not really for SDA (where legitimacy is assumed by default), especially since you can pretty much tell it's on Pro from enemy accuracy and damage anyway.

I do however particularly agree with the first verifier that the level with the most room for improvement is Amendment XXV.

Disagree with some of the things the third verifier, said, though (although they're mostly sensible things to say, his mistakes owe purely to the verifier lacking first-hand experience of some important things in the run). Here's the things I think he's wrong about:

[quote]Death of a Showman: Nice usage of shotgun to get a dead body closer to the box. I didn't see any mistake, but I think the ending part could be done slightly faster.[/quote]

[quote]Flatline: ... The only improvement I could see is to kill the working out guy a bit sooner.[/quote]

Wouldn't make a difference since I'm waiting for the agent's body to reach the morgue anyway.

[quote]A New Life: If SDA decides to time this run according to the game timer, then this level is perfect. If otherwise, then it would be maybe faster to kill every bodyguard on the way to target's wife instead of "bullet-time" and 2 healings.[/quote]

[quote]You Better Watch Out...: Really nice trick with the mine and probably a perfect run.[/quote]

[quote]Amendment XXV: For some reason he didn't use the first person view, which would be really helpful in this level[/quote]

Firstly, I can't use the first person view prior to throwing the mine because throwing anything forces you back to third person and the first person mode is bugged such that if you use it for a while and then swap back to third person, the camera angle changes (I'm not sure precisely what makes the camera angles 'desync' in this way but it always happens within a few tens of seconds of normal play after swapping to first person). In other words if I'd used first person prior to the mine throw, I'd have lost half a second to suddenly being jerked off course and having to correct my direction of movement.

As for using it after the mine throw, there are lots of reasons not do this:
* In first person mode, you move slower in all directions except straight forward, meaning I would've lost time while aiming at the Vice President.
* I need the higher vantage point of the third person view at the end to give me a better view of the lobby so I can quickly assess the situation and decide who to immediately shoot, whether to allow myself to be reduced to 0hp for bullet time, and who to headshot to stay alive after hitting 0hp. Also to avoid losing speed when aiming, as above.
* Taking 90 degree corners in first person mode is really awkward because since you only move at full speed when going straight forward, you lose time if you turn the view 45 degrees before you reach the corner and another 45 as you reach it (which is the natural way to take a corner in a shooter); instead, you have to yank the view 90 degrees at the instant you reach the corner, which is tricky and feels really unnatural. Also, you can't see guards around corners in first person which increases the risk of bumping into one.
* All the shots that need to be made in this level are across long corridors with high ceilings where there is plenty of time to line up the shots and the issue of 47's body obstructing your aim doesn't come into play, so third person view is fine for this.

Contrast this to Death On The Mississippi, where I [i]did[/i] use the first person view: there, there are far fewer tight corners, the corridors have low ceilings so your body obstructs your view in third person, and you potentially have to headshot several targets at point-blank range in short, narrow doorways, where the third person view really fucks you over.

Basically, there are some circumstances where first person is appropriate and some where third person is, and AXXV is definitely the latter.

[quote]Requiem: One thing I don't like about this run is that he wastes entire MP5 clip on a wheelchair guy instead of going after the running guys that cause him quite a trouble. He either could have killed him with 4 bullets left in silverballs (if I see the ammo count correctly), then take MP5 and kill everyone else, or he could have ignored him, take MP5, kill everyone else, then turn around and kill him. It could save a second.[/quote]

As for using the mp7 to kill the people outside, it is NOWHERE NEAR accurate or powerful enough to do the job quickly with any degree of consistency. I grab the Custom 1911 because it's the only weapon in the level with enough accuracy and firepower to reliably take out the two guards coming up the hill. If I were to use the mp7, I'd need two headshots, and have little realistic chance of getting them. Perhaps with a few hundred attempts spraying with the mp7 and hoping for headshots could prove to be a better method, though.

Thanks for making these points abouit Requiem because it's made me realise that the level is slightly more complicated than I first realised and I ought to explain these decisions in the comments. I'll have to mail Mike one final updated version of the comments before the run goes up on the site. :P

[quote]Since this is a New Game+ run, it should be a separate category, because all upgrades are available.[/quote]

Well, it should be labelled as New Game+, sure, but it's not really a 'seperate' category since you can't really have a [i]non[/i]-New Game+ IL table - if you did, who would decide what upgrades and weapons you're allowed on what levels? (Availability of custom weapon upgrades depends upon your rank on previous levels, and you can only use standard weapons you've carried out of a level previously.)

Besides the ones I've quoted, I agree with your comments, though.