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mikwuyma: 2010-02-20 03:56:50 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet.

Janis 'Pendrokar' Lukss's run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
I've watched the Giants speedrun. Sorry for the delays, I just wanted to make sure I don't oversee something and even spent time trying things in the real game when I'm not sure.

I'm not sure whether or not to accept, with reasons given below. Please give the runner the chance to explain them first. In case the run is rejected, however, the runner should get the chance to improve the run (but this would raise another issue: how much needs to be improved for the run to be acceptable by SDA?).

Cheating/Consistency: no problems

Audio/Video quality: no problems

Timing: for each mission from player gaining control upon entering the mission to player losing control upon finishing the mission (or screen finally having faded out since player can do things important to the run during fadeout).

Gameplay quality: Route planning & gameplay are well done but there are a number of mistakes throughout the run.

Some levels just suck and so the runner probably did dozens of attempts each and kept the one that was fastest although to unsuspecting players they might seem suboptimal. These are especially levels 1.2, 3.3, 3.4, 4.2, 15.5

Also, in level 3.7 there's what looks like a mistake at the end, however since the runner has to wait anyway for fadeout there's no time lost so I'm okay with that.


Here are my complaints:

3.5: Why didn't the runner simply deliver the final shot to the 3rd log launcher as early as possible? He had enough health to survive the enemy bullets

3.5: In my own tests my teammates catched up after about 20 seconds into the level so one could exploit their bullets for destroying the log launchers faster. The runner didn't do this, however neither I succeeded in surpassing the runner's time.

3.6: why did the runner visit the shop right after the mission starts? He wouldn't have to if he:
* avoided the no-popup-bomb glitch by dropping any weapon in the mission before
* used a mine instead of grenade for launching himself (he would still have time after placing the popup bomb to visit the shop again and get grenades as well as the previously dropped weapon)

4.1: 1 or 2 seconds lost for unneccessarily collecting/discarding weapons *before* the restart

4.3: maybe getting another 4 mines would have improved this level's time, not 100% sure

6.1: runner mentioned himself that his time would be improvable, about 2 seconds were lost

6.2: Was it really neccessary to kill the reaper guard *before* using the spell on the smartie?

7.1:
* Getting vimps the last time could be unnecessary since there seemed to be more than enough souls already in the base.
* Why did the runner waste time killing reaper guards? I see no point. Neither they were a danger for the mission's completion nor did he need their souls.
* There were 10 "unused" seconds left after the player placed the portal. He could have placed it way closer to where he respawns in 7.3 without losing any time here.

8.4: the missed turbo. I see no point in the runner not wanting to segment here since the rules clearly state "Use as many segments as is optimal to achieve the fastest final time. We will not be more impressed if you use a small number of segments."

9.1: Base build issues again. The last time getting vimps might not be worth it, also killing guards while going to the enemy base just costs time but doesn't gain anything (except some souls which the runner didn't use). Also returning to the base for refilling teleport doesn't seem to be worth it. The setup costs about 15 seconds but each of the 3 teleports just saves about 3 seconds compared to using turbo.

10.1:  I wonder why the player took such a long tour killing enemies near the base. The two at the unfinished gate could have become a problem soon but the other ones? They don't harm the base build mission as long as they don't manage to harm buildings that are being built or destroy buildings that have been finished. But probably the player had to wait for the smarties to finish the other buildings anyway so this might not be a problem.

11.1, 11.2: in both cases there's an easy-to-get smartie later so I don't know whether it's faster to kill the first smartie one time less and get the second smartie instead. Not sure whether it's really faster.

13.3: The player lost 1 to 2 seconds at the start of mission 3 for running into the wrong direction


Runner's response

Quote:
3.5 Less than a second waste. I cannot see my teammates at 40+ seconds so I doubt they'd be any help

4.1 I drop the sniper rifle, then I pick up the mortar. Why I didn't throw mines while doing it? That might have been a little second waste on my part.

6.2 New sea reaper comes out of barracks faster with that kill...

8.4 Yes you're right. I just went for "Don't segment if it's not hard or based on randomness". I wouldn't get a 0.5 seconds penalty too just went with what I said...
Could redo! Would save 10-20 seconds.

9.1 I don't understand about the 15 second 'setup'...

11.1, 11.2 Tried it in the first level if I ran for the other not far from there a new smartie would rise up before or right at the same time I get to the other.
In second level there is a smartie on the way. But I haven't managed to catch him before he goes inside a building.

13.3 After throwing rock? I don't see any time wastes.


Quote:
> 3.5 Less than a second waste. I cannot see my teammates at 40+ seconds so I doubt they'd be any help
Strange. Maybe they get stuck at the gate for you. But since you need to aim precisely and their shots are difficult to control I don't know how much time their help would have saved.

> 4.1 I drop the sniper rifle, then I pick up the mortar. Why I didn't throw mines while doing it? That might have been a little second waste on my part.
No, I mean you picked up the mortar before going to the gate which you don't need because you're restarting the level after placing the popup which undoes all weapon changes. Not having collected the mortar *before* placing the popup wouldn't have made a difference, would it?

> 8.4 Yes you're right. I just went for "Don't segment if it's not hard or based on randomness". I wouldn't get a 0.5 seconds penalty too just went with what I said...
> Could redo! Would save 10-20 seconds.
There's no 0.5 seconds penalty in Giants since you cannot save anywhere. So no reason to not segment here.

@mikwuyma: please confirm: is it permitted to split up a recorded video spanning multiple levels in order to just redo one of them as long as consistency is preserved?

> 9.1 I don't understand about the 15 second 'setup'...
I mean the time spent for everything related to portals (getting to party house, placing portal, getting another smartie).
Also, I've noticed that the time saved by teleporting is actually more than 3 seconds when there's a large height difference. So you didn't lose that much time here.

> 13.3 After throwing rock? I don't see any time wastes.
Damn, I meant level 14, not 13. It's after smashing the door.


The runner decided to redo parts of the run, and here are the responses.

Quote:
This level is much better now. There are further mistakes but none of them are as easy to get rid of. Accept.


Quote:
Watched, liked, accepted the new segments. Nothing more to be said... really.

Regards
heledir


Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a good run of a cult-classic.
Thread title:  
I must say one thing when I was doing the run. I really thought it would be over two or three hours long. Cheesy
Run, you pigeons. It's Robert Frost!
I always wanted to play this game.  Maybe I'll just watch this run instead.
Giants has comedy. I was forced to skip cutscenes though.  Cry
Yes, my favourite game of all time. Please fast track this to the head of the queue... I am looking forward to watching this so much, thank you to the runner for making this happen!
Everything on the page says this was done in 34 segments, yet there are 44 parts to download. Am I missing something?
Quote from Nihilus:
Everything on the page says this was done in 34 segments, yet there are 44 parts to download. Am I missing something?

Fraps makes a new part of the video after getting close to 4 GB mark. So no you are not missing anything.
we have lift off
Quote from Pendrokar:
Quote from Nihilus:
Everything on the page says this was done in 34 segments, yet there are 44 parts to download. Am I missing something?

Fraps makes a new part of the video after getting close to 4 GB mark. So no you are not missing anything.


Single-segment runs recorded with Fraps aren't in parts to download, surely segments which ran in two Fraps segments could be appended when encoding with Anri?
According to verification the runner redid mission 8.4. I also did not spot a flaw in the video. However, the run page still lists the mistake.
Edit history:
atomicJo: 2010-04-21 11:08:57 am
Man, I watched your run, you raped that game ! as you did for Morrowind !
You found out so many bugs to speed up things that's insane !!
too bad you did'nt explain every one of them in comments ( huge speed in water in part14, map/turbo glitch, kabuto mountain climbing ...)

It's one of the best speedrun I've been given to watch!
Congrats and keep running games that fast ^^
atomicJo: there's an article in the knowledge base that explains most glitches: http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Giants:_Citizen_Kabuto