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Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-08-30 05:30:55 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-30 03:57:36 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-30 03:56:15 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-30 02:32:41 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 03:51:08 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 01:24:39 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-27 08:58:08 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-26 04:40:36 pm
Sir VG: 2011-08-26 04:19:23 pm
Sir VG: 2011-08-26 04:01:18 pm
Fucking Weeaboo
I was playing this while taking advantage of some fun glitches that would make this version a fun candidate for a run.  I don't know if they work on the PS1/GBA games, so I don't know if they'd be a separate category.

The glitch is the Equipment Glitch.  It's a fun (yet somewhat tricky) glitch to pull off.  It allows you to do the following:
1. Equip an item on a class that normally can't equip it (such as a Sword on a White Mage).
2. Convert a weapon to an armor and vice versa.
3. To go along with #2, duplication of items.

With this, you can absolutely break the game.  I'm still working on figuring out exactly what classes to take and while items to glitch, but here's what I've got so far.

Cornelia: Glitch Hammer to create Knight Armor (For physical defense)
Chaos Shrine: Glitch Leather Cap to create Judgment Staff (Casts Flare on all enemies)
Provoka: Glitch Leather Gloves to create Gladius (For physical attacks) See testing note below.
Melmond: Glitch Steel Gloves into Barbarian's Sword for everybody.
Waterfall Cave: Duplicate Ribbon for everybody.
Sunken Shrine: Giant's Gloves (For casting Saber)
Crescent Lake: Glitch Mythril Gloves to create Lust Dagger Not needed anymore, due to Barbarian's Sword
Crescent Lake: Glitch Mythril Sword to create Crystal Armor (put on both Armor & Gloves for added defense)
Chaos Shrine Revisited: Masamune (For supreme damage!) Not supreme anymore!

Spells:
White Magic (Some of these may not be needed)
Lv 1 - None
Lv 2 - NulShock
Lv 3 - NulBlaze, Heal (White Mage Only)
Lv 4 - NulFrost
Lv 5 - Curaga, Healara (White Mage Only)
Lv 6 - None
Lv 7 - Curaja (White Wizard Only), Healaga (White Mage/Wizard Only)
Lv 8 - Probably won't get high enough level to use it.

Black Magic:
Lv 1 - None
Lv 2 - Temper
Lv 3 - None
Lv 4 - Haste
Lv 5 - Teleport (For warping?  May not be useful) Wasn't high enough by the Sacred Shrine, so no point.
Lv 6 - None
Lv 7 - None
Lv 8 - None

Party:
Fighter is absolutely needed for the initial duping.  If Teleport turns out to be needed, Black Mage will be needed (I'm thinking for the Sacred Shrine?), otherwise a Red Mage (since they can caste both Temper and Haste) for higher HP.  White Mage is a must for healing for Chaos.  The 4th probably a Black Belt, since they seem to have a higher damage output then the Fighter.

The other idea would be Fighter, Black Belt, Black Belt, Red Mage, if you can get by with only Lv 5 healing (Curaga and Healara), which a Red Mage can use those.  That would save some time by not having to do the class change, since you wouldn't need the Lv 7 White Magic spells, which only a White Wizard can use.  If the Null spells are needed, a Red Mage can use them too, but frankly with a 3 fighter setup, he'll be too busy using Haste and Temper.  Maybe Fighter, Black Belt, 2 Red Mages?

These are just initial thoughts.  Would like to hear some input.

----
Initial Testing with 2 Fighters and  Red Mages:
Judgment staff is a higher attack (30) on a fighter then a Gladius (28), though it has lower accuracy and evasion.  Generally accuracy isn't an issue and evasion is pretty unnecessary with a good armor.  Same is true for a Red Mage (26 vs 28).

Beating only Garland & the Pirates will put you at Magic Lv 2 before leaving Pravoka.

Can't use Heal, but when you can just Flare everything to death, what's the point of healing?

Tested out skipping the Earth Cave and going straight for the Canoe so I can get the airship early, but the game won't give it to you until you've beaten Lich.  DAMN YOU SQUARE ENIX.
Thread title:  
Quote:
Spells:
White Magic (Some of these may not be needed)
Lv 1 - None
Lv 2 - NulShock
Lv 3 - NulBlaze, Heal
Lv 4 - NulFrost
Lv 5 - Curaga, Healara
Lv 6 - None
Lv 7 - Curaja, Healaga
Lv 8 - Probably won't get high enough level to use it.

You won't need any of the Nulls, since you'll likely have 3 Ribbons and something to help that fighter, though Dragon Armor is a bit out of the way. You may get to a high enough level for level 7 magic, but I wouldn't count on it. If you absolutely need group healing that badly, farm Tiamat 2 for the Rune Staff (it casts Healra). Though it's moot at that point.

Quote:
Black Magic:
Lv 1 - None
Lv 2 - Temper
Lv 3 - None
Lv 4 - Haste
Lv 5 - Teleport (For warping?  May not be useful) Wasn't high enough by the Sacred Shrine, so no point.
Lv 6 - None
Lv 7 - None
Lv 8 - None

Judgment Staff covers all the damage the BM needs to do, so this list looks pretty good.

Quote:
The other idea would be Fighter, Black Belt, Black Belt, Red Mage, if you can get by with only Lv 5 healing (Curaga and Healara)

I second this party. You should be able to wreck the game fairly easily with it, along with the item swapping. If you want suggestions for equipment to grab, I'd throw in Great Axe->Diamond Armlet, which will really help that pathetic glass buffer. If I'm remembering correctly, the axe is in Titan's Tunnel. If the Braveheart is worth it (class change for Fighter?) you could potentially swap a Mithril Helm for it. Everything else appears too out of the way to try for.

Quote:
which a Red Mage can use those.

Since when? o_O I was pretty certain only the white mages could use the Heal-line spells, or is that a change to the PSP that I forgot about?

Quote:
Tested out skipping the Earth Cave and going straight for the Canoe so I can get the airship early, but the game won't give it to you until you've beaten Lich.  DAMN YOU SQUARE ENIX.

But you can still sequence break getting into the Ice Cave before the Volcano! Tongue
imo it's hardly a sequence break unless you believe that a bundled-in strategy guide tells you it's the proper sequence. iirc they never explicitly state that in the game ;-p
Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-08-27 01:48:37 pm
Fucking Weeaboo
Well, with Heal out for the Red Mage, Curaga isn't enough.  Basically I either need to find a way to buff up the defense.  Mythril Sword (bought from Crescent Lake shop) can glitch to Crystal Armor, which gives probably the best defense from the list I see.  And since I can glitch it into multiple spots on the same person (armor and gloves, don't want to put it on shield to avoid a game stopping glitch), that should really help over the Knight's Armor.  I can't glitch to get the Rune Staff though, since the item I need is not gonna be available.  For a SS run, I can't count on a drop from Tiamat 2 (I can't get the damn thing to drop at all!).  Ribbon will be the helmet and Genji Shield (which you can glitch from Masamune) can serve for an actual shield.


And yeah, getting the Canoe before going to the volcano isn't a sequence break.  The game's dialogue even changes based upon what fiends you've beaten when you talk to Tiamat and Maralith.  I generally save Maralith for last, since then I'm close to Crescent Lake for a final stock on items before going to the Temple of Chaos.


---
Yeah, Crystal Armor x2 is better then Knight's Armor x2 (even with a Genji Shield equipped!).  Fighters with 2 Crystal Armor + 1 Ribbon = 89 Defense, while Genji Shield + Ribbon + 2 Knight's Armor = 83 (even 6 levels up!).  Now if I get a Genji Shield on, that should help cut down some of the brute force of the physical hits.
Quote:
Now if I get a Genji Shield on, that should help cut down some of the brute force of the physical hits.

Just remember that critical hits ignore all defense.
Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 07:57:07 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 07:44:44 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 07:25:20 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 07:23:16 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 07:16:06 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 06:53:37 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 05:48:34 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 03:36:34 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 03:36:06 am
Sir VG: 2011-08-29 03:36:00 am
Fucking Weeaboo
Taking another crack at the 2F 2RM route.  Boss strats based upon duplications:

Garland: Physical attacks will kill him in 1 round easily.  No need to flare.
Pirates: Use the Judgment Staff to Flare, since you can then kill all 9 in 1 round (likely 1 hit).
Astos: 4 Flares kill in 1 round, though it took me 6 physical hits.
Vampire: Easily killed in 1 round w/ Physical Attacks.  Otherwise it took 3 Flares, so physical is faster.
Lich: 11 Flares (Min 3 Rounds) or about 5 rounds of Physical Attacks + Tempers (will depend on how turn order goes).  The latter is much more risky, since a good Blizzara will pretty much wipe out the party.
(You'll be at about 45min at this point)
Maralith: Easily beaten in 5 hits w/ Lust Dagger, w/o needing Temper, Haste, or Saber.  It took the same # of turns when using Temper, so might as well go all out.
Kraken: Beaten in 2 rounds w/o Saber, Haste, or Temper.
(Time: About 1:35)
Tiamat: Beaten the quickest using Saber 1 turn (both fighters) and then attacking, while the Red Mages use Temper every turn on the Fighters.  Took about 3 rounds (Flare took 4 and no enhancing took 5).
(Time: About 1:55)
Lich 2: Fighters use Saber first turn, Red Mages use Haste.  Switch to Fight/Temper respectively.  Won in 2-3 turns.
Maralith 2:  Same as Lich 2.  Won in about 3 turns.
Kraken 2: Rinse and repeat with the Lich 2 Strat.
Tiamat 2: Same strat, just takes 4 rounds due to more HP.
(Time: About 2:20 knocking on Chaos' Door.)
Chaos: Saber by Fighter 1 for 2 rounds, then attack.  Fighter 2 will use High Potions.  Red Mages use Haste and Temper on Fighter 1.  Hope for good luck.  You'll need it. ^^;;
Beaten at Lv 32.  Time at clear save: 2:25

One thing I need to figure out is what really gets me the Giant's Gloves.  One list doesn't have it, but when I glitched it back into a weapon before, I think it created a knife.  So maybe I can get it right from the start and not need it from Sunken Shrine.  Would also like to test out the idea of 1 Fighter, 1 White Mage, 2 Red Mages, which would give me Healara for the final battle, which isn't very strong, but very beneficial since Chaos can do a lot of all party spells.

Edit: Apparently, there's two different "Knife" weapons.  The one at the start creates Leather Armor.  There's a different one that creates the Giant's Gloves.  The one that does has 5 more ATK and 10 more ACC.
Quote:
Lich: 11 Flares (Min 3 Rounds) or about 5 rounds of Physical Attacks + Tempers (will depend on how turn order goes).  The latter is much more risky, since a good Blizzara will pretty much wipe out the party.

If you're at as low level as I expect, it won't even take a good one to wipe you out. :s You'll need some generous RNG for everyone to survive it. During both of my memosave runs (the practice run and the real attempt that died), I reset at Lich about 150 times because of Blizzara alone. Lost about another 70 or so attempts because the targeted Fighter went before my Black Mage.

Still, I would still consider the physical route for Lich cause it still has decent magic defense.

Quote:
Lich 2: Fighters use Saber first turn, Red Mages use Haste.  Switch to Fight/Temper respectively.  Won in 2-3 turns.

Try and get the one-round kill, because Lich still uses Flare, if memory serves.

Quote:
One thing I need to figure out is what really gets me the Giant's Gloves.

Quote:
Due to the difference in numbers between armors and weapons available in the
game, several armors will result into dummy 'knives', which have varying attack
powers due to the glitch. They have no graphic nor sound, but they do not
crash the game unlike the shield if you ever leave them equipped.

Angel's Ring
Crystal Gloves
Crystal Ring
Diamond Gloves
Genji Gloves
Giant's Gloves
Protect Ring
Thief's Gloves

Looks like you'll have to pick them up normally. =\
Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-08-30 04:30:58 am
Fucking Weeaboo
Gonna have to rethink my strategy a bit.  I missed the Steel Gloves glitching to Barbarian's Sword.

Let's put it this way...

Lust Dagger ATK on a Fighter at Lv 26 -> 62.
Masamune ATK on a Fighter at Lv 30 -> 69.
Barbarian's Sword ATK on a Fighter at the same level -> 146!

Sure it has lower accuracy and evasion, but man, I could kill things before they had a chance to hit me.  I can get the Steel Gloves in Melmond, so my strats from the Vampire on will need to be looked over again.  Wonder if there's anything else more gamebreakerish...

Nope.  Comparing the boss refights to before:

Lich 2: 1 round kill.  No boosting necessary.
Maralith 2: Took 5 hits, still no boosting.
Kraken 2: 5 hits as well.  No boosting.
Tiamat 2: 7 hits, though several were criticals.  Still no boosting.
Chaos: Still need some help.  I think for a SS run not having a White Mage w/ Lv 7 magic is just too risky.
Fucking Weeaboo
Completed a SS run today using a party of a Fighter, White Mage, and 2 Red Mages.

Since I can't get up to Lv 33 normally, I have to grind for a few minutes at the top of Mirage Tower.  The Blue Dragon there (forced encounter) gives off over 3000 exp), so if I kill off my other 3 people and let my White Mage grind alone, she'll get up there quickly.  Healaga made all the difference...Chaos went down like he was nothing.

In-Game Timer at the clear save was 2:15.
Fucking Weeaboo
New SS record - 2:07 via the in-game timer.  I made a mistake during the Cavern of Ice that cost several minutes (accidentally fell back down the holes while going for the floater), had a brain fart while going through the Sunken Shrine, and Chaos decided to be a jerk and used Curaja once (which heals him for 9999 HP).  I don't know if it's enough for sub-2:00, but I'm gonna push it down as much as possible.
Make it so.
Quote from Sir VG:
New SS record - 2:07 via the in-game timer.  I made a mistake during the Cavern of Ice that cost several minutes (accidentally fell back down the holes while going for the floater), had a brain fart while going through the Sunken Shrine, and Chaos decided to be a jerk and used Curaja once (which heals him for 9999 HP).  I don't know if it's enough for sub-2:00, but I'm gonna push it down as much as possible.


The amount I want to see this cannot be expressed in mere words.

Great job Sir VG, 2 hours would be sick but even if it's not possible this sounds like it's going to be a great run!
Fucking Weeaboo
Hehe.  Got it.

1:57 IGT.  Despite another stinking Curaja from Chaos.  Overall most of my timing marks were ahead, though I did get some bad luck going for Lich (I think that section I had the most additional encounters (I think I lost my entire 4 minute advantage I had prior to beating the Vampire there).  But that's the luck of the random encounter for you.  Some sections I got virtually none, some sections I didn't.

Will be working on submitting it. Smiley
.
If you're still making improvements to the tune of 10 minutes, maybe you should iterate on it a bit more before submitting? Make sure you can't really do better.
Edit history:
Rakuen: 2011-09-04 06:42:16 pm
Weegee Time
From a different angle, I'd say losing a good 3.5% of your run to one bad section is something you might be able to either normalize or remove with a few more attempts.

You've done a good job cutting down the time so far, but potential is still there. Smiley
Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-09-05 12:11:35 pm
Fucking Weeaboo
10 minute improvement may sound impressive, but that was mostly due to not screwing up in the Cavern of Ice when going for the floater.  That was at least 5 minutes worth there.

As for the section from Vampire to Lich, I think on the 2:07 I must have gotten lucky, because I'm always losing time in that section now.

I'm fiddling with a few more cracks, but right now I think unless I get lucky on the random encounters, I'm not gonna drop the time down further.  I may surprise myself, but right now with the playing around I've done, 1:57 is gonna be it.

Yeah, even with a better Vampire-to-Lich segment compared to the 2:07 and no Curaja, I STILL lost to the 1:57 by 3 minutes.  Without the game being nice and giving me good luck in regards to the # of random battles, I'm not beating it.
Balls jerky
Perhaps you should try for longer than a week? If previous verifications are anything to go by (they are), verifiers don't like it when you settle for a run.
Quits halfway
Is it impossible to skip the white mage? Seems like if you could find a way around that it'd bring down your time quite a bit (even if it's risky). I haven't played the game, but it'd be great if you could get away with not needing to grind for some minutes to get the lv33 on white mage.
Fucking Weeaboo
Quote from Aftermath:
Is it impossible to skip the white mage? Seems like if you could find a way around that it'd bring down your time quite a bit (even if it's risky). I haven't played the game, but it'd be great if you could get away with not needing to grind for some minutes to get the lv33 on white mage.


I've tried it w/o the White Mage and w/o grinding to Lv 33.  Chaos just hits way too hard for the levels I'm at w/o having Healaga.  Even Healara isn't good enough.  Virtually all of Chaos' attacks hit for 200+ and Healara only does for around 150.  And when half of your party is barely above 300 HP, you'll die REALLY quick without a good healing spell.
It would be worth the risk if Chaos had Origins' HP (4000), but he has 20,000 in the GBA and PSP versions. So yeah...
Jump, Gypsy, Jump!
I think the time could be reduced by taking those kind of risks in a segmented run, but in single segment it's going to be really rough swinging it since it's at the very end of the run. I don't know if it's worth trying to do 50+ attempts just to get the one attempt where you manage to stay alive through Chaos without the white mage.
Fucking Weeaboo
If he had 4,000 to even 10,000 HP, I would be fine, since I could deal that in 4 rounds or less (everybody attacking with Barbarian's Sword, maybe after hasting and/or tempering/Sabering once) and could potentially survive that long at the HP levels I'd be at.  But 20,000 HP just takes too long to take out without having somebody sitting there constantly casting Healaga.

About the only thing I can think of to cut some time out would be to skip the Giant's Gloves and just rely on using Haste/Temper for the final fight instead of having it for casting Saber as well (which it's basically Temper & Accuracy+).  Might cut out a minute.
Well, let's use some logic here. Saber ups attack by 16 points, Steel ups by 14 points. The main benefit to Saber is you get a free cast and anybody can do it. If you already have 2 red/black mages in the party, you don't really need the gloves per sé, but they could still benefit you for a few battles (both Krakens, Tiamats, Chaos). Is it enough to warrant picking them up? I think so, because they can definitely cut a minute worth of time in those 5 battles.
Edit history:
Sir VG: 2011-09-07 05:01:46 pm
Fucking Weeaboo
Well, here's how things went in my 1:57 run which should probably answer the question.

Kraken: Died in 2 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.
Tiamat: Died in 4 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.
Lich 2: Died in 5 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.
Maralith 2: Died in 5 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.
Kraken 2: Died in 6 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.
Tiamat 2: Died in 9 hits.  No haste/saber/temper.

Yeah, virtually ALL of these it would actually COST time to use those abilities.  They just die too fast at the hands of the Barbarian's Sword.  I'm guessing even on Tiamat 2 I'd lose time, even though I go just barely into the 3rd round.

So the question is basically...is it worth it to go out of the way just for Chaos for like 2 castings of it?  Do I save enough time on Chaos to counter the time spend going to get the item?  I think it isn't now and will drop it from further attempts.

(BTW, I timed now how long the diversion for getting it is.  In my 1:57 it took me 1m30s from the split (Just after the H in the map below) until I hit the split where I'd be on track (the "upside-down fork" left of where items W,X,Y,Z are on the map.  So the time saved from dropping it would probably be at least 1 minute, since I'd have to subtract some time for taking the shorter route, which I estimate is 15-30 seconds, depending on how many random battles I get.)

Sunken Shrine Map (NES Version, but it works just as well): http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/522595-final-fantasy/faqs/49417

-----

One other idea has come to mind that needs more testing - is there a theoretical limit to the # of tempers that will stack?  Because I casted a ton of them on the fighter and he never got over 3000 damage on Chaos.  I wonder if it would be better to at a certain point then start stacking temper/haste on one of the red mages and have them attack?  Maybe it would be Chaos faster?  Something I really need to look into.
Weegee Time
Hmm, well I booted up my GBA copy and I see my Accuracy is maxed out at 255.  I imagine the other stats would have the same cap, and I don't see why something like that would change between versions.  So Temper probably stops having an effect once you reach 255 Attack.

You could probably test this out by whacking a few weak enemies around with varying counts of Tempers.  They have lower Defensive stats, so you should get a better idea of where your power will top out.  Also, I have no idea if it's a stat boost that wears off over time, so you might try casting it a few times and then waiting several rounds to see if your power drops.
lalala
Makes me want to continue working on the gba tas I started of this game. >.>