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My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Single-segment run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
Gonna have to say "nay" to this.

There are just way too many minor flaws in this run to make it good. It's a four hour+ beast too.

The biggest issue is getting better at knowing the game, or being calmer when playing. He knows his mechanics, but he sure doesn't seem to know his route. This is in regards to getting lost doing the simple things more than one time, which just looks ugly. This especially applies to the menus. More than once, like, say, tens of times, I noticed him getting lost in them, be they the battle menus or out of battle menus. Sometimes, hestitation costs him too. In one battle in the Earth Cave, he encounters a group of zombie enemies. He has his WM use HRM2, goes to have his RM use FIR2, but stops, decides against it, and uses a standard attack instead. The WM was then stunned by the zombies, drawing the battle out. Stuff like that. The volcano is also a great example. Instead of spending as much time as possible in lava, he avoids it, and runs into a number of otherwise avoidable battles because of it. And the trial of ordeals can EASILY be skipped. Sure, you get all that cool spell-casting equipment, but it's no big deal if you miss it.

Cutting down on the number of party members might be an interesting decision as well. It don't have to be one guy like in the TAS - if you go with FI/FI/RM, you'll still gain EXP at a quicker rate. A party change could also be done. He used the party of FI/FI/RM/WM, using the one White Mage over FI/FI/FI/RM for HARM and added healing, and that he's done a run with the latter party ("very good results", though what very good is wasn't elaborated on) but why not use FI/FI/RM/RM? FIR2 ain't half bad either, and HARM isn't much at all up to then..

Don't get me wrong - this run is impressive for the fact that he actually pulled it off. But only that. It could be way better. I may be missing a few things, but the comments don't really go into enough detail on it to defend its case. Sure, it was a cool idea, but in practice, Final Fantasy I just isn't single segmentable in the same way as say, VI. What with the amount of random luck involved, especially with the missing, the missing an enemy that otherwise would've been dead, and having more than one attack an enemy to try and prevent the above but one killing them causing the others to have ineffective hits. But even with that, four hours? I'd say SS would have to at most be three hours to be accepted, and that's dancing on the edge.


Quote:
it took me a while to get my motivation back to watching ff1 after the first hour failed run heh
even though that one was funny like with solo vs pirates
first thing i gotta say is, since the different party configurations shouldn't and won't be different categories
i believe picking a white mage is flat-out wrong, go with another red mage for ss
i know he's sacrificing speed for consistency, but cmon that's like carlie in sd3
the standard choices for ff1 running are 3 fighter 1 red mage, which is fastest but riskier, or 2 of each
black mage can warp earlier, but he can't attack or heal or revive so it's not worth it
well, first thing i should really say is
the best thing about this ss ff1 run is that, it's a ss ff1 run, that's highly impressive
this run is going to pass on that fact alone, not that i have a problem with that at all, mind you
anyway, he pauses to think a lot, and goes to the menu a lot, goes back to the menu just to double check a lot
it's a long ss, it could happen much less often, but i can't really blame him too much
same with picking up a ton of stuff and fighting a ton of guys, running is actually more dangerous
there's some major stuff he could skip like masamune or even class change, i don't recommend that here though
also the rng is known so you can manipulate battles the whole game, again that's not necessary for now
luck is often bad but this is not a complaint in the least, he handles it well
this one bat just blocks his way for forever, that was kinda amusing really
equipping the masamune on white wizard was like nintendo power blast from the past, i'm pretty sure it's just wrong though
due to atk - def you typically want to put your best weapons on your best guys
plus they're actually attacking every turn bc they have nothing better to do
wiz doesn't even always attack and has crappy hit rate and also dies the fastest
put masamune and excalibur on fighters and use zeus gauntlet with white wiz if you really have to do damage i guess
due to ff1 all-or-nothing damage math, i bet his rationale is that he wants 4 possible damage dealers instead of 3
the problem is your good damage dealers could be dealing even more damage, which would be better
he's also a huge fan of healing all the time, no matter what, even if there's less than 1% chance it helps
like sometimes he uses the heal rod and only one guy is hurt and just gains a little bit of hp of course
but the animation still has to go through everyone, healing them nothing
and then say kraken will either miss or ink or just ohko guys from full anyway
i disagree with how he levels up, i think he should use peninsula of power and the eye boss
he takes an extra trip to buy spells once too
he did go class change before kary, that was good
the most impressively cool part is how he intentionally gets his white wizard petrified
the only other game i know with a strategy like that is lufia 1, where you have a hilarious spell that just petrifies your own guy
so he floats wiz past lich's nuke, uses a soft potion, and revives dead red wiz
as soon as the petrification happened, i had an inkling he was going for this
then when it happened, i thought it was really sweet and was like, oh that white wiz this entire time was basically for that?
but actually red wiz can do that too so 2 red mage would work just as well for this trick
anyway i hope these comments don't sound too harsh, i'm meh'ing this but it will probably and should be accepted so grats runner


Quote:
There were no clear signs of cheating or problems with audio, video, or syncing.

This is a pretty impressive run. Obviously the most significant feature is that its a single segment in FF1. However, aside from simply being SS, its also fairly fast in its own right. The routes are clearly well-planned. Obviously a LOT of things had to go just right for this run to work so I'm sure there were many, many restarts. The one thing I didn't understand was that there were several inexplicable pauses throughout the run almost as if the runner needed to run to the bathroom after killing a major boss. Also, before several major fights, the runner was overly cautious and spent quite a few seconds double checking inventory, character HP levels, etc. Despite the minor flaws, this run is quite an achievement.

Recommendation: Accept


Quote:
Verifier: Unfortunately Yama, I have come to a conclusion. I have to say that I am going to reject this run. This is sort of on a bias, I am willing to admit. (FF1)
Verifier: This is based on a couple of reasons
Verifier: 1. He has pauses, which are acceptable in a SS to a point, but re-entering menus many times, pausing for long periods and what not are just not that good.
Verifier: 2. His use of MASMUNE and black robe are iffy. Black robe is much more effective on the RED MAGE despite the lack of defense, as he can actually do something. The only time it should be on the white mage, is when the white mage will use it while the red mage FAST's the party.
Verifier: Also the runner should look into how combat works, to properly weigh in on who should get what. In regards to 2, the First fighter (the one with DEFENSE equipped) Should have gotten MASMUNE. Since his 8 attacks could do damage without having to crit (defense's atk mod isn't high enough to pierce the 100 def of CHAOS, and helps out on TIAMAT).
Verifier: yeah; i mean the rest of the run still has too many/long pauses
Verifier: And I am still sure that he wastes time in the end game based on his juggling of equipment and what not


Quote:
Verifier: might be academic since it's over three hours
Verifier: or might be academic because I'm not sure it'll get accepted
Verifier: I just finished watching the FF1 run all the way through, going to try to be as detailed as I can because there's a lot to consider here
me: okay
Verifier: There's a few things that really bug me though
Verifier: He wastes a LOT of time fucking with menus
Verifier: like I'm guessing on the order of 5-10 minutes altogether
Verifier: He also bought two spells that he never once uses
Verifier: I'm pretty sure he one case he makes a trip to town specificially to buy the spell and then never uses it
Verifier: Also in at least one battle he uses an item that boosts evasion for the entire party multiple times
Verifier: And I'm not entirely sure it stacks


Quote:
Hi Mike.

Here are my comments on the FF1 NES single-segment run:

Timing: 4 hours, 17 minutes, 4 seconds since start selected, 4 hours, 16 minutes, 32 seconds since names entered (not sure which is correct)

No obvious cheating, video & audio are OK.

I suppose I’ll start with my complaints about the run. I can’t fault the runner for some of the slow battles since fighting battles in general is tough, especially in the early going when the party’s level is low. However, there was a plethora of tiny mistakes here and there (picking the wrong item, fighting and then running in the same battle, moving slowly around the menus, etc) that do add up over the course of the run. Also, the runner seemed to have trouble remembering where to go in certain towns when a number of items or magic had to be bought and/or sold, especially later on in the run. I suppose this was an indication that not many runs reached the late stages of the game (understandably so, given the nature of this game). Also, after some of the battles (see: Astos, Kary), the runner waited for a few seconds after getting the “Monsters Defeated” dialogue instead of continuing on as usual, was the runner celebrating after a tough victory?

I do believe that the positives outweigh the negatives in this case. The characters chosen and the path taken through the game were very good. Most of the items and magic purchased and found were used to their fullest capability, although some of the magic purchased was never used. And to top it off, there were some INCREDIBLE close calls that went the runner’s way to combat some of the crappy luck (perfect Lich battle after being blocked by that stupid bat for about a minute, perfect Eye battle after surviving the Ice Cave even with an unfortunate early death, Aram somehow surviving during the Chaos battle, etc). The runner knew when to run and when not to run in random battles, and generally had decent luck escaping with little damage in tough battles.

Most importantly, and I can’t stress this enough, this is an original Final Fantasy single-segment run in under four and a half hours. I am impressed.

Accept


Decision: Reject

Reason: I'm not going to lie, this was a tough decision, but in the end all of the time spent in the menus and possible planning errors are too big to overlook.

The run is available upon request as long as if you PM me before February 16th.

Warning: The run doesn't start until an hour or so into the video.
Thread title:  
Hail Discordia!
Quote:
the runner waited for a few seconds after getting the “Monsters Defeated” dialogue instead of continuing on as usual, was the runner celebrating after a tough victory?


This made me chuckle. Cheesy
Highly Evolved
Wow, reading this made it look like it was almost a coin flip to whether this would be accepted or not. 

I'm really considering requesting to watch it.

Makes me wonder what is acceptable when it comes to menu manipulation, as that is an important part to any RPG run.
Quote from Darkwing Duck:
Wow, reading this made it look like it was almost a coin flip to whether this would be accepted or not. 

I'm really considering requesting to watch it.

Makes me wonder what is acceptable when it comes to menu manipulation, as that is an important part to any RPG run.


I was the last verifier, and I had a feeling that the vote would be really close and could go either way.

In a run this long, I feel that some leniency can be allowed for menu mistakes, but obviously that's purely a judgement call.
Talk to the Hand
I saw this topic and I went "Noooooooo!" like Guile throwing a temper tantrum.

Then I saw it was rejected and I went "Yes! Yes!" to an upbeat heroic fanfare, like M. Bison watching the Street Fighters get pummeled into dust.

Still the longest NES run on the site, baby! Cheesy

More seriously though, I don't actually care THAT much about that particular milestone, and I'm also considering asking to see this one to see just how close it really was. Also to see exactly how off the menu manipulation was in this, especially if he spends as much time in the menus as is claimed. This game is one of the more notable omissions on SDA at the moment (Along with ANY Dragon Warrior), so I'd actually like to see it get up.
Highly Evolved
Quote from Emptyeye:
I saw this topic and I went "Noooooooo!" like Guile throwing a temper tantrum.

Then I saw it was rejected and I went "Yes! Yes!" to an upbeat heroic fanfare, like M. Bison watching the Street Fighters get pummeled into dust.

Still the longest NES run on the site, baby! Cheesy

More seriously though, I don't actually care THAT much about that particular milestone, and I'm also considering asking to see this one to see just how close it really was. Also to see exactly how off the menu manipulation was in this, especially if he spends as much time in the menus as is claimed. This game is one of the more notable omissions on SDA at the moment (Along with ANY Dragon Warrior), so I'd actually like to see it get up.

Uh, my Dragon Warrior 3 run has been in verification for three months, so you have another bullet to dodge.  And before you say anything else, a single segment Dragon Warrior run will hopefully be done in the next month or two, so nyeh! Tongue
0-10
Quote:
Gonna have to say "nay" to this.

There are just way too many minor flaws in this run to make it good. It's a four hour+ beast too.

Four hours for this version of this game is mighty impressive. A lot of things have to go right to get a time like that.
I really hope the runner is not discouraged by this news because a time under four and a half hours is amazing for a run of this game.  Please keep up the good work at what could be one of the most difficult and frustrating games to single segment run that I know!
May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce!
I'm disappointed that this wasn't accepted. I think reviewers are just too quick to reject. The flaws may "appear" sloppy, but in reality they add only a small percentage to the overall time. This run is a mighty achievement, and its a shame few people will ever see it.
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Quote from OnyxShadow:
I'm disappointed that this wasn't accepted. I think reviewers are just too quick to reject. The flaws may "appear" sloppy, but in reality they add only a small percentage to the overall time. This run is a mighty achievement, and its a shame few people will ever see it.


Unless if they ask Mike right now if they can get a copy to watch it...  I'm not going to say much about it until I watch it.... If this was a SS, I can understand, but if it is a multisegment, then it makes sense as to why the verifiers wrote what they did...

How hope that the runner sees this rejection as a way of saying, "You can improve this run..."  We are long overdue for another FF run, and until the people who are planning FF8 get their act together, watching the speed run of the original FF would be nice...
I want off the ride....
Quote from MAS8705:
Quote from OnyxShadow:
I'm disappointed that this wasn't accepted. I think reviewers are just too quick to reject. The flaws may "appear" sloppy, but in reality they add only a small percentage to the overall time. This run is a mighty achievement, and its a shame few people will ever see it.


Unless if they ask Mike right now if they can get a copy to watch it...  I'm not going to say much about it until I watch it.... If this was a SS, I can understand, but if it is a multisegment, then it makes sense as to why the verifiers wrote what they did...

How hope that the runner sees this rejection as a way of saying, "You can improve this run..."  We are long overdue for another FF run, and until the people who are planning FF8 get their act together, watching the speed run of the original FF would be nice...

I can feel i wasn't too quick to reject.. I took some time and re-watched parts of this run.. There are just too much messing around in menus, which is fine... But when he messes around taking his time, then goes back into the menu to undo what he did.. then redo it. Its all a problem. I know there are a lot of parts where things can be confused, but the darn thing was just mmm not there.

I feel I was just in my thoughts, you guys are more than welcome to watch the run, and I do hope the runner re-does the run with a little more practice. And taking a few tips and it'll be more than badass
Highly Evolved
Well, I watched it and there are times where I was saying "why'd this get rejected," and then there'd be times where I'd say "wow, that's bad."

A big issue I had with the run was battling with randoms.  First, it seemed like the runner winged it a few times, which ends up being a time waster.  Second, I felt the runner didn't have quite enough information on enemies' HPs and actions and such.  While there are a lot of enemies, there are only a small select bunch that the runner actually fights.  I also believe that the runner didn't fully plan out what to do at each random grouping of enemies, something that really is needed in a game with randoms. 

The ice cavern was, I think, the best part of the run.  Well done, there.  Also each boss seemed to be planned out well. 

Concerning the White Mage/Red Mage use, my biggest gripe would be during the late game, the runner makes the White Mage nothing more than a healer in the majority of the instances before obtaining the Black Shirt.  There were several randoms where the Heal Staff was useless and a time waster, and with nothing to attack with, the runner used it anyway.  I think the Thor Hammer really needed to be used by the White Mage/Wizard more often.  Probably would have saved time.

I do think money could have been handled a bit differently and more efficiently.  Exactly how I'm not sure, but I do believe it can be improved there.

Still, a hard one to reject, in my opinion.  I don't know if I could have.

EDIT: As an aside, I do believe Ruse/White Shirt can be stacked once.  I'd have to look, but I think that two uses is maximum. 
0-10
Quote from Darkwing Duck:
EDIT: As an aside, I do believe Ruse/White Shirt can be stacked once.  I'd have to look, but I think that two uses is maximum.

Ruse raises evade by 80 points, and two casts raises it by 160. Go with the three casts to max it out. The White Shirt only raises evade by 40 points, so it needs to be cast 6 times just to raise evade by 240.