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Edit history:
WarMech: 2014-12-01 01:33:51 pm
WarMech: 2014-12-01 01:32:53 pm
WarMech: 2014-08-26 05:41:04 pm
WarMech: 2010-11-11 05:27:46 pm
WarMech: 2010-09-27 08:08:05 pm
WarMech: 2010-09-27 08:02:34 pm
WarMech: 2008-02-15 12:51:01 am
UPDATE (08/28/14): Recording complete, though I may attempt to improve the last segment.  The next steps are to record the run on DVD and send it to SDA!

UPDATE (9/27/10):  Final route complete.  Recording will being once I obtain a DVD recorder.

UPDATE (9/09/14): Recording complete.

UPDATE (12/01/14): Run submitted to SDA.

ORIGINAL POST:
Hey Everyone.  I've been a fan of SDA for several years now and continue to be amazed with all the dedication that is put into making such awesome runs.  Now that I'm home for the summer, I plan on running a game that has been missing from the SDA list for a long time: Final Fantasy 1.  So far, I've spent about 50 hours planning, testing, timing, and analyzing my own work to try to perfect a game that I thought couldn't be completed in less than 10 hours.  My last run timed in at 3 hours and 13 minutes (193 minutes) but I think with the help of this community and a little more perseverance, I can bring it down to less than 3 hours.

NOTES:

1) I am running the game on the original cartridge for the NES using the American version.  The PS1 (the game's remake) would probably be fast but I don't really care because I think there is a bigger fan base for this one and it is much more fun.  In this way, the TAS, the thread on the Single-Segment run, and Red Scarlet’s run were of very little help to me.  I’ve come up with this route on my own completely.

2) I use three fighters and a red mage for this run, and I am 99% certain that this is the fastest group for the type of run I'm doing.  The fighters can push through most parts of the game at extremely low levels and can use the best weapons and armor.  The red mage complements them perfectly by being able to learn all of the basic spells that are essential for this run (Cure, Fire 2, Warp, etc).

3) I use the so called "Peninsula of Power" or PoP quite frequently to gain massive amounts of experience and gold early on in the game.  For those of you not aware of what this is, it is a small segment of land by the second town that has enemies that aren't supposed to be fought until the end of the game.  I use it to gain full levels in one or two fights.

4) My other massive segment of leveling comes in the ice cave by fighting the EYE repeatedly.  After I get the airship and 4 Pro-rings, I am completely invincible to his attacks, and he is the most "cost-effective" enemy to kill in the game by factoring in XP, Gold, HP, and the miniscule amount of time it takes to defeat him.  I can run into him every step by walking over the square next to the Floater and I do not need to segment every fight.  At the end of this power-leveling segment, I have all the gold and XP I need to beat the game.

5)  If you have a good understanding of this game, please read my next post and really analyze it to find spots where I can improve even the smallest things.  I'm open to any suggestions on how to make this run truly perfect.

USEFUL WEBSITES:

http://collector.5gigs.com/index.html
(Great overview of the game with detailed info on enemies and maps)

http://blake.prohosting.com/coleco/goodies/techfaq.txt
(A mathematical analysis of the game's programming)

http://www.ffnemesis.com/ff1/
(Good info on weapons and armor)
Thread title:  
Edit history:
WarMech: 2010-09-27 08:06:29 pm
WarMech: 2010-09-27 08:03:10 pm
UPDATE (9/27/10):  Final route.  See spreadsheet above for details where in the power cycle each segment states, what the target time for each segment is (rounded to the nearest 30 seconds), how experience, gold, and items are gained and lost each segment.

Final Fantasy 1 Speed Run

3 Fighters (B, T, M)
1 Red Mage (J)

EVERYTHING measured in Group Total Experience.

Segment 1
*Enter Coneria and buy and equip 4 Rapiers, 3 Chain, and Cure 1
*Kill Garland in two rounds or less
*Talk to King and Princess
*Return to inn and save

Segment 2
*Go to Pravoka and Kill Pirates
*Ship
*Buy 6 Tents, and 1 Chain
*Inn

Segment 3
*5 Kyzokus (strike first)
*Use Cure 1 and tent
*Gives group level 3

Segment 4
*5 Kyzokus
*Use Cure 1 and tent

Segment 5
*5 Kyzokus
*Buy 2 Short Swords and Ice
*Sell Rapiers
*Equip Short
*Buy 3 more tents
*Inn

Segment 6
*Head up to PoP
*One Battle
*Tent (one step short of the forest)

Segment 7-10
*1 Zombull per segment
*Use Ice 1 in first two segments
*Use only ONE Cure 1 per segments
*Gets level 4,5
*If we need more HP use an extra tent

(Add segment(s) here if I don’t use all my tents)

Segment 11
*Ship back to Coneria and end 5 Pures, and 12 Tents
*Inn

Segment 12
*Ship to Elfland
*Buy Silver Sword
*Tent

Segment 13-15
*To Marsh Cave (*no random encounters from this point forward*)
*3 Tents

Segment 16
*Get Short Sword, Iron Armor, and House
*2 Wizards
*Crown
*Tent

Segment 17
*To Astos
*Tent

Segment 18
*Kill Astos for crystal
*Battle isn’t tough when Rub is ineffective (Astos dead at 1 minute)
*Use Ice 1
* Level 6 = Fire 2 = Peninsula of Power
*Tent

Segment 19-24
*To Elftown
*Fire 2
*Inn
*To Matoya
*Herb
*To Elftown
*4 Tents

Segment 25
*Mystic Key
*To Coneria
*Buy 13 Tents
*Get Iron Armor, Iron Shield, and TNT in castle
*Tent

Segment 26
*To Dwarf Cave
* 1025  gold
*Treasure
*Use TNT
*Equip Weapons and Armor (Don’t drop Chain yet!)
*Tent

Segment 27-30
*To PoP
*4 Tents

Segment 31-34
*4 Zombulls
*3,3,2,2 rounds or fewer
*Level 7,8
*2 Houses and 4 Tents

Segment 35-36
*To Marsh
*2 Tents

Segment 37
*Buy 2 Silver Swords and Cure 2
*Sell Short Swords, Silver Knife, and Dragon Sword
*Buy 1 Iron Armor and Iron Shield
*Sell Chains
*Buy 10 Pures, 3 Softs, 16 Cabins, and 99 Heals
*Buy Fast
*Inn

Segment 38-40
*To Earth Cave
*3 Tents/Cabins

Segment 41
*Vampire (w/out Fire 2)
*Ruby
*Use 1 soft max
*Cabin

Segment 42-47
*Get Rod
*Return to Earth Cave
*6 Cabins

Segment 48
*No mis-steps
*Kill Lich
*Cabin

Segment 49-50
*To Crescent Lake
*2 Cabins

Segment 51
*Inn
*Buy 18+ Cabins and X Pures,
*Canoe
*Cabin

Segment 52-55
*To Ordeals
*4 Cabins

Segment 56 (1 minute 30 seconds)
*Always enter bottom most trash can
*Use Magic as needed
*Get treasures on 3rd floor
*1 Zombie Dragon
*TAIL
*Level 9
*Cabin

Segment 57-62
*To Ice Cave
*6 Cabins
*1 House

Segment 63
*Frost Giant
*Flame Sword, Gold, Ice Shield, Heal, Tent
*Use Zeus Gauntlet for Red Mage
*Kill EYE
*1 Fighter dies
*Floater
*Cabin

Segment 64-66
*To Airship
*3 Cabins

Segment 67
*Airship
*Bahamut
*Bottle
*Gaia
*Sell Heal Rod and 2 Silver Swords
*Sell Gold Bracelet, 2 Iron Armor, and 2 Iron Shields
*Buy 3 ProRings
*Buy 2 Houses and X Cabins
*Equip
*Oxyale
*Ice Cave
*Cabin

Segment 68
*36+ EYE’s
*Frost Giant
*Wizards
* Level 16
*Cabin

Segment 69 (6? minutes)
*Re-Order Group so Knight with STR/BAT second, AGL/LUCK first, and Red last
*Melmond,
*Buy Life, Warp, and Bane
*Buy 2 Steel
*Warp
*Cabin

Segment 70
*To Waterfall
*Cabin

Waterfall 71
*Waterfall
* Cube, Ribbon 2nd box, Gold, and Defense
*Equip it and drop Iron Armor!
*Warp Out
*Cabin

Segment 72-73
*To Onrac
*2 Cabin

Segment 74
*Item shop and end with 3 houses and 3 cabins, 3 softs, and 99 heals
* Opal Bracelet, Slab, Opal Helmet on 5th floor.
*Warp twice
*Get Ribbon on Floor 2b?
*Water?
*Equip and heal right before Kraken
*Kraken
* House/Cabin

Segment 75-80
*To Melmond and give Slab to the guy in the upper-right corner
*Warp Out
*To Lefein and get Chime from guy in bottom middle
*Warp Out
*House/Cabin outside of Mirage Tower

Segment 81
*Sun Sword and Dragon Armor
*Blue D with Fast in one round
*Ribbon, Opal Shield, and ADAMENT
*Tiamat with Bane
*House/Cabin

Segment 82
*To Dwarf Cave
*Excalibur
*Warp Out
*To Volcano
*Cabin

Segment 83
*Walk on fire if possible = No enemy encounters
*Kary  in two rounds
*To Coneria
*Inn
*99 heals
* ToF and use last Houses/Cabins so that Heals are in a good spot!

Segment 84
*Extra Fight before Kary to avoid Water and Sorceror fight
*Masamune
*Warp
*Life if needed
*Use one Fast for Kraken, one for Tiamat, and 2 for Chaos
*Pray

TOTAL ESTIMATED TIME (<170 minutes: 2 hours and 50 minutes)
Major Run Questions (please respond to these if you plan to give advice in your posts)

-Like I said, I’m 99% sure that the group I’m using is the best, but if you have ideas for another group that is superior to this one for a segmented run, I’m open to suggestions.

-I’m also confident that the class change (becoming Knights and a Red Wizard) saves time overall in this run.  Although the entire Castle of Ordeals and Bahamut costs about 10 minutes, it does allow me to use Warp, make $$$ from treasures, No need for a second trip to Gaia (Bottle can be bought earlier), equip Dragon/Opal stuff for knight, equip Excalibur and Defense (HUGE time savers in the last segments, and teach Cure 1 and 2 to fighters.

-Rumor has it that Tiamant is weak against poison (Bane).  I’m debating whether it would be worth it to buy Bane or get the Bane sword and try to 1HKO him to get the final orb.  I normally kill him in 2-3 rounds.  This might save time but it means I couldn’t learn Fire 3 if I get Bane or it costs time to get the Bane Sword itself.

-Other little things here and there are also marked with a ?

Technical Questions

-Save Warping: When I save the game and end a segment at the Inn, I am automatically teleported out to begin the next segment.  Technically, this is save warping but I see very little way of avoiding it.  I don’t want this run to be labeled as such.  I suppose I could go to the inn and then simply walk outside and use a tent, but that seems like a pointless use of time and money if the admins don’t care about the inn thing.  I would like an official confirmation on what constitutes save warping in this game.

-Death Abuse: This run will not abuse death in any way.  Some people suggested that I intentionally kill off my party to have one person gain huge XP.  I really think this is a bad idea because of decreasing marginal returns, etc, but this will not occur in this run.  The only possible “deaths” might occur in the final segment or if an enemy uses “stone” on me and I can’t avoid it.  Obviously, this isn’t “abuse” in anyway, so I don’t think I need to worry about it.

-Recording:  Because I’m pretty technically impaired, I just plan on recording using VHS if I can get this run done by January (hoping I can by the end of the summer).  Are there any VHS tapes or recorders that produce a higher quality play back?  Sorry I’m such a noob.

Please post any comments or advice you have for me! 

WarMech
Grin
wise fwom yo gwave
This is one of the few rpg's i know anything about, but i haven't played it in so long that all i can help with are the technical questions.

First, save warping is not a negative thing by any means. It is really dumb to not use save warping in a game that allows it. For example the super mario sunshine run (i know done before save warping was allowed) looks really dumb with the guy having to run back to a save point every single time he wants to save. Please use it.

Second, I am not sure it is considered death abuse in RPG's to kill off party members. I'm not even sure it would be considered death abuse unless you yourself died. If a pokemon dies in a pokemon run, it is not considered death abuse. This rule is more applied to games where you have a defined "death." A death in this game would be losing all members of your party. So you should abuse killing off party members, as your run won't even be marked abuses death AFAIK.

For VHS: Don't buy the cheapest tapes you can find and don't re-record over them a million times. Then, pray that nothing else goes wrong.
THE GAME!!
That's great that you're doing a run for the NES version. I wouldn't mind if you did the Origins/DOS version but the NES version would be loads better to see!
Edit history:
snorlax: 2007-05-14 09:41:58 pm
zzzzzzzzzz
I agree with everything Stanski posted.  I'm also quite happy you're running the NES version, as that's the only version I'll ever really care about.  Every day I think about playing this game.  I will comment on your long posts, and I promise I will have suggestions, but I don't have enough time to give it my full attention until later tonight.

One thing:  you should seriously consider buying a DVD recorder; they're not really much more complicated than VCR's, they're not too expensive, and the recording quality is much better.
Fucking Weeaboo
Wouldn't a party of Black Belts be better than Fighters?  They may suck at the start, but they can hit quite hard after gaining a few levels.  Plus they're cheap to equip.
Talk to the Hand
Quote:
Wouldn't a party of Black Belts be better than Fighters?  They may suck at the start, but they can hit quite hard after gaining a few levels.  Plus they're cheap to equip.


I think for a speedrun, you want Fighters/Knights. A couple reasons for this:
1. You have to get Black Belts up to about Level 10 before they start doing the serious damage.
2. Black Belts get NO benefits from class change (In other words, no Cure1/Cure2 like you get with Knights).
3. Black Belts have terrible defense.
Thanks for the support so far everyone. 

Stanski: I only asked about the death abuse thing because FF1 has a sort of different way of dealing with death.  If one character dies, the other characters get his experience (a little different from Pokemon in that way) so it might be possible for one character to get 4 times as much XP as usual.  There is no way to "abuse" death for the party on the whole because a group death brings you back to the last time you saved it and you lose everything up to that point.  Also, I do plan on "save warping" to save time because you're right, the other way is pointless.  I might need an admin like Nate or Radix to determine if the warping is severe enough to warrent a separate category.  It's pretty inevidable though.  Also, thanks for the VHS advice.  Tapes are pretty cheap so even if I need 10 or 20 of them, it's not a big deal.  I just hope a tape doesn't run out during a long, critical segment.

Snorlax: I would appreciate all the advice that you have for the run.  Upon reading your posts on the Single Segment thread, I got the idea that you have a really strong understanding of the game, so I know you'll be helpful whenever you have a few days to read my endless posts... I'm pretty long-winded if you hadn't noticed.  Roll Eyes

Lord_VG: As Emptyeye mentioned, I believe the fighters are better at every level until VERY high levels like 30 or higher.  Because I'm beating the game at level 17, the fighters actually have more HP, attack (when combined with the weapons they use), and defense (HP and armor) during every point in the run.  I also considered using a black mage in place of the Red Mage because he get his spells earlier and has more of them, but like the Black Belts, he is just too weak to stand up to bosses at low levels.

WarMech
wise fwom yo gwave
Don't get me wrong, you can definately re-record over previous segments. Just don't do it 500 times. When I was doing VHS, I'd check them every 25 full re-records to make sure the quality was still decent enough.

As said, DVD player is better and getting very low in price. They are pretty useful for other stuff besides just speedrunning as well.
zzzzzzzzzz
Here are some more detailed comments.  The numbers are only for easy reference and do not refer necessarily to your segment numbers.

1.  Are we assuming you're running from all fights not listed?

2.  Explain your dilemma here:  "*Buy Cure 1 FIRST? (-100 Gold) "

3.  At the end of Segment 10 you should consider going to Coneria instead of Pravoka.  The inn and items shops are less out of the way, the inn is cheaper, and it will make your next segment (probably a trying one) slightly shorter.

4.  For your consideration, there is a long sword right along the path in the Marsh Cave as well.  That probably won't fit your route, but it's just a thought.

5.  Segment 11 looks pretty difficult, with the long journey plus the Marsh Cave ordeal.  If you have trouble getting good times on this segment, you should consider tenting outside of the Marsh Cave.  There are a lot of battles in the Marsh Cave that are tough to run from, making things difficult for you.

6.  What does "Marked Chest A" refer to?

7.  You should consider buying silver swords at the end of Segment 12.  I would think they'd save time on the Zombulls.  You could then use the inn in Elfland instead of the inn in Pravoka to end the segment if you wished.

8.  His name is Astos.

9.  What monster group is after the Zombulls in the battle sequence for that region?  If it's something like Frost Wolves, manipulating a group of eight or nine of them, which you can basically kill with one hit of FIRE 2, might be worthwhile to do after a Zombull battle instead of resetting once you have reached Level 7.  You'd have to look at the numbers and the feasibility.

More to come later.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Quote:
2) I use three fighters and a red mage for this run

As soon as I saw this, I knew this run was in good hands. Smiley

Agree with your party choice (I've also seen 2F/2RM thrown around, but 3F/1RM is better if you can do it) and class change (for WARP if nothing else). I am pretty sure (but don't take my word for it) that the Tiamat BANE thing is baloney. I think it came from the chart that came with the game, and like these things usually work, was repeated ad nauseum without being tested by anyone until it is somehow considered fact today.

What you said might be save warping wouldn't even be considered save warping at all. It's unavoidable. Same with death abuse, it doesn't apply to this run. For recording, just make sure to record in SP mode for higher quality.


In general (you only asked once), I don't think you should combine segments.

If this is what you're asking, I think you should just buy CUR1 after getting the ship, if this is less walking.
Pudding%
Quote:
I am pretty sure (but don't take my word for it) that the Tiamat BANE thing is baloney.


Don't take my word for this either, but I'm pretty sure that way back in the day, I managed to hit Tiamat with BANE. He didn't seem weak to it at all (it could still miss) but I'm pretty sure it DOES indeed work on him.
100% runs=great to watch
I'm almost 100% positive I saw Bane and such put to use on the TAS.  Might want to check the FF1 NES TAS.
Stupor is as Stupor Does
BANE works on Tiamat.  It works better in the first fight, but it works on both (NES version, I don't know about the others).

I seem to recall it being thrown around that it also worked on CHAOS as well.  IIRC it is supposed to work on any enemy with low probability.
zzzzzzzzzz
Bane works on even enemies that are immune to Bane with a 1/256 probability.  (I believe the Eye's attacks can still hit with you with a Proring with the same probability.)

Bane does work with a higher percentage on the first Tiamat, but I still don't think it would be worthwhile.  Getting it to work on the first round would save less than a minute, and it could easily ruin a great segment. 

Plus you would have to do one of two things before that.  You could pick up the Bane Sword, which would mean a decent number of extra steps plus at least one more battle that you would have to fight or run away from, which would take way too much time.  Otherwise you would have to buy the BANE spell, which would cost too much for a one time use when you could be using the money for other things.  (I suggest possibly a Silver Sword for the Red Mage.)
I just watched the TAS, what are the chances of killing Chaos in one hit just by throwing a Bane sword at him?
zzzzzzzzzz
1/256.
Quote:
1/256.

Good luck on the luck manipulation Tongue
Quote:
Good luck on the luck manipulation Tongue


You only need 178 attempts to have at least a 1/2 probability of being successful at least once Tongue
Insert text here later
Quote:

You only need 178 attempts to have at least a 1/2 probability of being successful at least once Tongue


At least it's not being run on a 16 bit platform.  Since if it was 1/2^16, then he'd have to run 45426 times before having the 1/2 probability.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Wow, gotta love being taken out of context. I know BANE works on everyone, I've seen the TAS. I just mean that conventional wisdom is that you should kill Tiamat with BANE, but that if anyone actually tested it out, it's not like it's such a great idea. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing you would want to do in a speedrun, because then why not BANE everyone to death?

In keeping with the geometric distribution theme, it would only take 74 attempts for a 25% chance. Roll Eyes
Yes, Bane does indeed work on all enemies including Chaos with a 1/256 probability.  This of course has no practical use in this run, even though it's segmented, because there just no way I can rely on those kinds of odds consistently.  However, I believe Tiamant is vulnerable to Bane with 1/4 or 1/5 odds of a 1HKO, which is possible but like Snorlax said, it could ruin a good segment.  The other problem is that I need a Warp or two in that segment which is also a level 5 spell, and getting the Bane sword uses up the minute that you save.  I'll probably abandon the idea.

The main reason why I found the TAS so useless as aid was because he could defeat every enemy with Bane using only 1 low-level fighter.  It could take me tens of thousands of attempts for every segment just to manipulate luck like he does.

Enhasa: I'm glad you're showing interest in the run too.  The save warping and death abuse things were questions on technicalities because I'm not sure exactly what the admins might consider a violation like this.  Your answer makes me feel better.  Also, I planned on getting Cure 1 after Garland and before the ship because the game automatically teleports you back to the castle after you beat him, and I will have enough money to afford it then because you only start with 400G.  I also plan on using Cure 1 as needed while I'm fighting the Kyzokus if one character gets beat up more than the others.  Lastly, I think you're right; combining those segments really isn't a good idea.  They are already long enough as it is.

Snorlax: Thanks for the suggestions.

1.  Yes, I am running from all fights that I can.  The obvious exceptions are bosses and certain other fights against enemies from whom the group can't escape (Wizards, Sorcerers, Earth, Fire, Water, Phantom, Eye, Worm, Purple Worm, Dragons, Cerebus, Ghost, Frost Giants, Zombulls).  I usually reset run where I encounter these enemies, but towards the end of the game, it's sometimes just faster to kill them.  If I get too many of these "unrunnable" fights in any segment (especally the last one), I just reset.  Ironically, I'll also reset if I run into WarMech  Roll Eyes

2.  The Cure 1 problem was just one of when it is most useful to buy it, and whether or not it might be worth it to buy Fire 1 (for the Zombulls) or Lightning 1 (for the Kyzokus).  I'm leaning towards only buying Cure 1 just because it seems like I'll need it in these early, difficult battles.

3.  GREAT suggestion!  I counter the number of additional "steps" it would take to visit the inn and the item shop in each place and Coneria is about 56 steps while Pravoka is over 100!  Awesome.  I'll have to see if I can make use of that later in the run...

4.  I'll have to think about getting the short sword in the March Cave instead of fighting the last group of Kyzokus and buying 3 in Pravoka.  The advantage is the time I save in not fighting the Kyzokus, but I would lose time fighting the sets of 1 Zombull because only two of my three fighters would have short swords.  I'll test it and see if it's worthwhile, cuz either way, I'll have them to fight the wizards and Astos.

5.  I also might find that I have to split up segment 11 like you suggested.  It's not the worst part of the game, but it can be a little annoying to get 2 wizards AND avoid getting a bad couple of fights.

6.  Marked Chest A refers to the map the site http://collector.5gigs.com/ff1/maps/index.html that has maps of game with all the treasure chests labeled.  On the basement floor, they call the chest with the iron armor "A" and so on.  I wrote myself all sorts of personal notes in my route planning which might not make sense to everyone else.

7.  Another AMAZING suggestion Snorlax and I'm beating myself for not thinking of it sooner.  As it turns out, I have almost EXACTLY 4000G at that point in the game after I beat Astos, especially if I sell one of the short swords.  This also could save well over a minute with all those Zombulls if not more!  Great idea, I can't say it enough.

8.  Ha ha, you're right on this one.  I think my dad called him "Astros" when I first played this game 10 years ago and the name kind of stuck.  Maybe I should invent my own code names for ALL the bosses to confuse you guys even more  8)

9.  I'm glad you brought up the frost wolves thing because that's something that I fought with for the first several runs of the game.  As it turns out, the wolves come in packs of 4-7, and even 7 of them only give you 2814XP and 1400 gold which isn't bad considering you can kill them 2-3 times faster with a blast of Fire 2, but the real limiting factor is the fact that I only have 1-2 Fire 2's before I need to recharge at the inn.  By fighting the 4 Zombulls, I only need to make 1 trip back to the inn total and use 1 House whereas if I fought Frost Wolves, it could take as many as 3-4 more trips back to the in since I just don't have enough Fire 2's with my red mage to take them out non-stop.  Inn trips take over a minute and so that, combined with the additional number of fights and segments just makes the Frost Wolves not at all worth it.

Hope this makes sense!  Keep these great suggestions coming everyone... we've already cut a few minutes off what I thought was a well-optimized part of the game!

WarMech
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I believe what Snorlax meant, having to do with the Frost Wolves, is that they are sequentially the next battle in that area after Zombull, so even if you only replaced one Zombull fight with Frost Wolves, it would eliminate an extra segment.

Sorry if I misunderstood this, haha.
zzzzzzzzzz
Quote:
I believe what Snorlax meant, having to do with the Frost Wolves, is that they are sequentially the next battle in that area after Zombull, so even if you only replaced one Zombull fight with Frost Wolves, it would eliminate an extra segment.

Sorry if I misunderstood this, haha.


Actually, I don't know what the next battle is, though I think there is a list somewhere.  I just thought that fighting something like that might be a good idea if it is the next battle in the list.