DVD recorders that have no lag

2010-09-22 06:38:00 am

Hi guys, does anyone have a list of DVD recorders that are confirmed to have no lag on their composite output ?

I have composite splitters, but if i can't use the output on the dvd recorder to play, then i can't stream and do attempts at the same time

Thread title:

Manocheese

2010-09-22 06:48:21 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Why not just send the DVD recorder's output to the capture card?

Siglemic

2010-09-22 07:20:19 am

that would definitely work since i'd be able to control everything in the dvd recorder using the preview box while streaming and such, but i'd have to have my capture card plugged in at all times to do an attempt, so i'd just prefer to buy one with no lag lol

Manocheese

2010-09-22 07:37:19 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

You'd have to plug in your capture card to stream whether or not your DVD recorder had lag.

Siglemic

2010-09-22 08:01:51 am

what i'm saying is, if i wanted to do an attempt without streaming, i would have to plug in my capture card to control my dvd recorder lol

Sir VG

2010-09-22 08:07:20 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, there is a way around the issue. It's a bit hard to explain, so I'll do the best I can. I use this setup myself.

I have one of those multi-input boxes (the ones where you can plug in 4 sets of s-video/composite cables). I plug my system into that, as well as my DVD recorder. Since there are two methods of output on my multi-input box, I have the better connection (S-Video) go into my DVD recorder input and the lesser connection (RF) go into my TV.

When I stream, I simply unplug my DVD recorder from the multi-input box and into my dazzle. Plug it back into the box when I need to see on the TV.

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2010-09-23 06:45:55 pm

2010-09-23 06:45:10 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

my setup allows for streaming and recording without the need to remove anything and also no-lag gameplay.

it was possible because the TV i have has an A/V out plug and i get the signal for the capture card from that output. on the console end, i used one of those cables that has both composite and s-video wires and Y cables for the audio and also i have an audio receiver where i plugged the DVD recorder and the split cables, so i just switch inputs to manage the DVD recorder and keep playing.

it is sure a hassle to set up all of this...

Xderekt21288X

2010-10-27 05:51:15 pm

I recently bought a new dvd recorder and I also have the same lag problem.

I was wondering if anyone knew of a 100% solution without spending too much money to do so. I have heard about splitters and all the ways to stop this but I would still rather find out a for sure way before I start buying things Smiley

I am in the middle of a run right now and want this stress to go away so I can focus on it again and finish

Much appreciated!

Derek

nate

2010-10-28 07:50:32 am

have you seen this?

http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/DVD#Reducing_Lag

Xderekt21288X

2010-10-28 08:36:33 am

That's exactly what I need to see Smiley

Thanks Nate!

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2010-11-08 05:33:24 pm

2010-11-08 05:31:47 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

If I've done my reading correctly, the Magnavox MDR513H (and the upcoming newer Magnavox MDR515H) is actually an updated version of the Philips DVDR3576H (no longer sold anywhere) that gets top billing in the SDA KB as being totally lag-free. The brand name changed only because the product line was sold from one company to another.

Does anyone know if the the MDR513H or MDR515H are also lag-free, like the DVDR3576H? I'm thinking of picking up the MDR515H, but it isn't sold at any store in Canada that I can find. So, I'll have to concoct some idiotic plan to acquire one from the US, and I'd like to know if it has that wonderful lag-free property before I go through the effort...

FlamingMage

2010-11-08 06:50:09 pm

I only use one splitter in my DVD recorder setup. Audio travels fast enough that I only have to split the audio.

/not really knowing what I'm talking about.

Poxnor

2010-11-09 11:13:18 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Poxnor:

If I've done my reading correctly, the Magnavox MDR513H (and the upcoming newer Magnavox MDR515H) is actually an updated version of the Philips DVDR3576H (no longer sold anywhere) that gets top billing in the SDA KB as being totally lag-free.

I've concocted my idiotic strategy for getting an MDR515H up to the frozen north. I'll post my results regarding whether or not it is lag-free sometime before Christmas (depending on how long it takes to arrive).

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2010-11-11 04:32:58 am

2010-11-11 04:24:30 am

I'm not sure the DVDR3576H was ever properly tested for lag here; as far as I know the only evidence was anecdotal (though a few people said the same thing). If there is lag then surely there's only a frame or two.

Poxnor

2010-12-22 05:24:56 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I tested the lag on the Magnavox MDR515H (as promised, before Christmas Wink

).

Experimental setup:
- Laptop with S-Video output, loaded with the NTSC (29.97 fps) timecode video available at http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/video/timecode/.
- Magnavox MDR515H
- Non-HD TV
- Digital camera (1/125 second shutter speed)

First, I ran the S-Video output from the laptop directly to the TV's S-Video input. I ran the timecode movie, and took ten photos with this setup. Typically (7/10 photos), the laptop and TV were in sync; in the other three photos, the TV was actually one frame ahead of the laptop.

Second, I ran the S-Video output from the laptop to the S-Video input on the DVD recorder; then, I ran the S-Video output of the recorder to the TV. The DVD recorder was not recording; it was just acting as a middleman here. Again, I took ten photos. Every photo depicted the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Third, I started recording in SP mode to the recorder's HDD. Ten photos again showed the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Finally, I changed the link between the TV and DVD recorder from S-Video to composite (just in case, e.g., someone whose TV doesn't have S-Video input was thinking of getting this model). Again, all ten photos showed the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Based on how you choose to interpret the odd control photos (with three of them showing the TV actually being one frame ahead of the laptop), we could conclude that the MDR515H induces two(ish) frames of lag.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

I tested the lag on the Magnavox MDR515H (as promised, before Christmas ;) ).

Experimental setup:
- Laptop with S-Video output, loaded with the NTSC (29.97 fps) timecode video available at [url]http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/video/timecode/[/url].
- Magnavox MDR515H
- Non-HD TV
- Digital camera (1/125 second shutter speed)

First, I ran the S-Video output from the laptop directly to the TV's S-Video input.  I ran the timecode movie, and took ten photos with this setup.  Typically (7/10 photos), the laptop and TV were in sync; in the other three photos, the TV was actually one frame ahead of the laptop.

Second, I ran the S-Video output from the laptop to the S-Video input on the DVD recorder; then, I ran the S-Video output of the recorder to the TV.  The DVD recorder was not recording; it was just acting as a middleman here.  Again, I took ten photos.  Every photo depicted the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Third, I started recording in SP mode to the recorder's HDD.  Ten photos again showed the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Finally, I changed the link between the TV and DVD recorder from S-Video to composite (just in case, e.g., someone whose TV doesn't have S-Video input was thinking of getting this model).  Again, all ten photos showed the TV as two frames behind the laptop.

Based on how you choose to interpret the odd control photos (with three of them showing the TV actually being one frame ahead of the laptop), we could conclude that the MDR515H induces two(ish) frames of lag.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2010-12-22 05:49:42 pm

2010-12-22 05:48:45 pm

Thanks for that, Poxnor, good stuff. 2 frames is around 0.067 seconds, which is unnoticeable in most cases but may still have a small effect on your play without you realising it. It's still really good for a DVD recorder though.

You've also got controller input lag, which is a minimum of 3 frames (0.05s at 60fps, 0.1s at 30fps) - usually a little more and sometimes a lot more - but that depends on the game and you'll have it no matter what setup you're using.

Poxnor

2010-12-22 06:01:03 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

My pleasure. If you were interested in adding this model to the KB: it has RF, composite, and S-video inputs. It can also output in component and HDMI; but since it doesn't accept those inputs, that's not really relevant for speedrunning. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-MDR515H-F7-500GB-HDD-and-DVD-R-with-Digital-Tuner/15080509.

DerekT21288

2011-03-13 06:56:36 am

I love SDA!

I'm still stuggling with this stuff guys. I stopped thinking about it for a few months but now I'm back and want it fixed.

Does it matter what TV you own or the console? I get told different solutions constantly and I can't just keep buying things that don't work. I really need an easy way to fix this that will most likely work for sure. I really feel like giving up speedrunning due to this.

Anything will help I guess and will be appreciated.

Sir VG

2011-03-13 07:22:14 am

Fucking Weeaboo

The console shouldn't matter. The TV might, but generally most LCD TVs seem to be pretty good now about the lag issue.

If you're having an issue with lag while recording on a DVD recorder, there's two ways around it. One is if you're not to worried about your video quality on the TV, get an input selection box that has S-Video and coax out. Depending on your TV, the video might not be that good. Usually this is the cheaper option. The other is to get a video signal amplifier box. This will typically have one input and 2+ outputs. These are kinda spendy (one I found on Amazon was $72), but you can get good signal on all the sources. There's a variation of what I linked for component too. I also have a different box for HDMI splitting.

(The box I linked, I have the component version, which works great. So if you can find that box cheaper [search ebay, which is where I got my component version], then it's worth it. Here is my HDMI powered splitter.)

The console shouldn't matter.  The TV might, but generally most LCD TVs seem to be pretty good now about the lag issue.

If you're having an issue with lag while recording on a DVD recorder, there's two ways around it.  One is if you're not to worried about your video quality on the TV, get an input selection box that has S-Video and coax out.  Depending on your TV, the video might not be that good.  Usually this is the cheaper option.  The other is to get a video signal amplifier box.  This will typically have one input and 2+ outputs.  These are kinda spendy (one I found on [url=http://www.amazon.com/Prograde-S-Video-Distribution-Amplifier-Analog/dp/B004AJLILC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1300022364&sr=8-4]Amazon was $72[/url]), but you can get good signal on all the sources.  There's a variation of what I linked for component too.  I also have a different box for HDMI splitting.

(The box I linked, I have the component version, which works great.  So if you can find that box cheaper [search ebay, which is where I got my component version], then it's worth it.  [url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015YRMXI]Here is my HDMI powered splitter.[/url])

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 08:16:10 am

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 08:12:04 am

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 08:09:36 am

2011-03-13 08:08:11 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

I'm a tech tard. Be weary.

So, I bought an HDTV the other day for my bedroom. I would like to play my xbox360 laglessly while also being able to record. This seems like the best place to post my question.

Can I send the HDMI out to the TV and the composite outs to the DVD recorder? This was a setup listed in the KB (by analogy), but I wasn't sure if anyone had tried this with a 360. It sure seems like it is possible, but I do not have an hdmi cable with which to experiment yet. The biggest problem is that the hdmi port on the xbox is nearly swallowed by the behemoth plastic around the composite cable. I've heard, though, that the plastic around the composite cable can be removed. Is this true? Sorry to derail the discussion.

Me

2011-03-13 09:51:17 am

Quote:

Can I send the HDMI out to the TV and the composite outs to the DVD recorder?

Unless my memory is hazy, the box will not output HDMI and composite at the same time. And yes, the HDMI will swallow up the composite port.

nate

2011-03-13 01:01:18 pm

yes, i believe the reason they make one cover the other is that it won't output both at the same time. so giving it a shave won't help. i could be wrong but that's what i remember, too.

Sir VG

2011-03-13 02:13:48 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from InsipidMuckyWater:

I'm a tech tard. Be weary.

So, I bought an HDTV the other day for my bedroom. I would like to play my xbox360 laglessly while also being able to record. This seems like the best place to post my question.

Can I send the HDMI out to the TV and the composite outs to the DVD recorder? This was a setup listed in the KB (by analogy), but I wasn't sure if anyone had tried this with a 360. It sure seems like it is possible, but I do not have an hdmi cable with which to experiment yet. The biggest problem is that the hdmi port on the xbox is nearly swallowed by the behemoth plastic around the composite cable. I've heard, though, that the plastic around the composite cable can be removed. Is this true? Sorry to derail the discussion.

No you can't. The Xbox 360 will not let you. You'll have to either split the HDMI or split the composite. Getting an HDMI splitter and a couple of HDMI cables isn't bad...it's the HDMI capture card I got that was the spendy part. But overall, that setup was about $125.

[quote="InsipidMuckyWater"]I'm a tech tard.  Be weary.

So, I bought an HDTV the other day for my bedroom.  I would like to play my xbox360 laglessly while also being able to record.  This seems like the best place to post my question.

Can I send the HDMI out to the TV and the composite outs to the DVD recorder?  This was a setup listed in the KB (by analogy), but I wasn't sure if anyone had tried this with a 360.  It sure seems like it is possible, but I do not have an hdmi cable with which to experiment yet.  The biggest problem is that the hdmi port on the xbox is nearly swallowed by the behemoth plastic around the composite cable.  I've heard, though, that the plastic around the composite cable can be removed.  Is this true?  Sorry to derail the discussion.[/quote]

No you can't.  The Xbox 360 will not let you.  You'll have to either split the HDMI or split the composite.  Getting an HDMI splitter and a couple of HDMI cables isn't bad...it's the HDMI capture card I got that was the spendy part.  But overall, that setup was about $125.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 05:59:12 pm

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 05:57:55 pm

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-03-13 05:29:40 pm

2011-03-13 05:24:58 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Shit. Cuz, my problem is that my dvd recorder does not have an hdmi port. The highest in-port it has is side video. And the tv does not apparently have any video outs.

I don't use capture cards, so that isn't a problem for me. I just record on dvd. So, now my problem is finding out how to get a setup that sends composite one direction and hdmi in another. Guess I should look into splitter boxes or something. Can I send hdmi to a splitter which then sends hdmi out to tv and then composite or side video to recorder?

Holy crap this is getting expensive quick!

EDIT: After further research, it's looking like I am screwed. My DVD recorder is just too old, so even a splitter wouldn't work unless it had out ports for other signal formats besides the kind being input. Hi-def composite leads to the same problem. Looks like my only real solution is to buy a newer dvd recorder, an hdmi splitter, AND two more hdmi cables. Ugh. This suuucks.

bmn

2011-03-13 06:06:04 pm

DVD recorders generally don't have HDMI input. Output, yes.

The Blackmagic Intensity Pro and Shuttle have HDMI input and HDMI/Composite output.