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My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet.

Giel Goertz's run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
hi Mike this is
my verification Zalibrquid Donkey Kong run:

Level 1: 4400 time remain
Perfect run here. Nice glitch without dying and overall error free run.

Level 2: 4200 time remain
He trying use TAS trick, but he mess up it. But we know this trick is really hard and pixel perfect. Overall good run. Wink

Level 3: 3500 time remain
He not use pixel turns like TAS. But his strategys was overall great and clean. Nice run overall.

I timed this was 1.26.69 and this mean it is about 3.30 sec faster than my rejected run which i trying submited before Zalibr run.

I say accept.
there is no real mistakes and overall run was fast and short.

So this run is easy accept. Wink


Quote:
I have verified the Donkey Kong run (didn't take too long).

The audio/video quality is great. The quality of the run is excellent, with perhaps 1-2 seconds of improvement possible (this would be a totally optimized run). I would recommend to accept the run.


Quote:
Hi,

Donkey kong is a pretty fast game to verify. This is a game that as been pretty often TASed and played. So we can easily compare the run to the 1.10min TAS version you can find on youtube. I want to make a note about the fact that a "less than 2 minutes" run can be tryed more than 40 times every hour and half, so more than 40 times during a soccer match, or a film with brad Pitt.

The runner expose all the reason why he is not as fast as the TAS.
Quote:
First level could have been a bit faster if that barrel I jumped over went down the first ladder.
Second ladder could have been faster if done like TAS, but that's hard as hell (never succeeded in doing it like that). I could have also waited for the next elevator so I wouldn't have to use the ladder, but I don't think that didn't cost me any time, because you need to wait and align yourself anyways because of those springs.
Third level could of saved time if that flame guy wasn't in the way for that ladder I think (and managed to pull of the return trick) from that point on I decided to go for save and not try the return trick as I'm not all that skilled in it and it fails about 80% of the time .
That's all there is too it I think.

the barrel go down at the first ladder something like every 2 tries. The flame at the ladder block the way on the right every 2 tries, and I think that with training you can do the return trick every 2 tries (*2 or 3 return tricks)
So you can do a perfect run every 16 or 32 runs... I know that is stupid maths but you have the idea : You can make a better run during the next brad Pitt film! So do it please. I don't want to read that a runner have some luck problems during a less than 2 minutes run...

So I reject the run.

(Video and audio quality are "good" for a nes game).


I decided to run this by the runner, and this is what he said.

Quote:
Ok, at first I wanted to post a but load of text, but I'll just try to keep it as short and simple as possible. (for a real fast explanation only read the last paragraph)

Assuming you can do the 1 frame trick 50% of the time is, imho, waaayy too optimistic. And yes that is with a hell of a lot of practising still too high of an percentage. (I do have some (read: a lot) expierence with 1-frame 'glitches' (kirby's adventure) so I think I'd know) I must admit I didn't practice it too much before doing this run, but that was also purely because I was under the impression it wasn't demanded (since 1-frame tricks (in general) are hellish imho).

Furthermore he really puts it too simple. Getting this run as good as the TAS, I think, would take WAAAAAAYYY too much time. I'd say it would take more time then I spend on my DuckTales run and I can tell you, that's a lot imho. (No, I don't have a number, sadly) I do agree that only pulling of the 1-frame return trick twice would suffice. (although if one can do it with a 50% accuracy, I'd expect him to do it all 4 times).

I would also say that what I pulled off in this run, if it's accepted, would have been seen as the bare minimum of what one could do for this run (with I mean just good enough for SDA).  (bleh, this is going to be a lot of text anyway)
I even doubted a bit if I shouldn't wait till I had a better run and already am trying to improve it, but I do believe it is good enough for SDA standards.

A small funny fact: if that flame guy wasn't there I probably would have died trying to pull that 1 frame trick off, when going into the 3rd level I told myself I should try it. (because everything went quite nicely I was hoping I'd have the luck there as well xD).

Anyway, I'd say if my runs would fail about a third of the times because of the 2nd level flame and also at least a third of the times because of the flames on the 3rd level (in my experience more realistic numbers especially in the 3rd level you die way more then 50% of the time because of flames, or they are simply in the way slowing you down). If you'd combine that with atleast 4 tries for 1 good 1-frame trick (which is too high I think) and the fact you need to restart 50% of the time because of the barrel in level 1 (which in my opinion is not a reason for reset). Plus ignoring the fact it also takes several tries before you succeed in doing the ladder glitch and assuming everything else always goes perfectly (which unfortunately it doesn't).
Then you'd have to at least try 288 times before you succeed. Of course that's just statistics talking so it could of easily be 500 times, but also 100. (depends on your luck :))
And yes I am very much convinced this number (288) is still on the low side.

Having said that, I'm still trying to actually accomplish this, but I was hoping, until then (and if..) my current run would suffice. (I am not saying I will succeed in such a run described above, but I am trying.) I submitted the current run because I would anticipate it would take a pretty long time before I would succeed in doing such a run (that is, if I succeed) and in the mean time people could enjoy the other one. At the moment when trying to do the 1-frame trick I'm too early most of the times (so the block doesn't get destroyed), but I hope I'm getting there...

Lastly I would like to note my run is a PAL run and the TAS is an NTSC run. I'm not sure if the verifier realises this, but I've had it before that they'd try to compare NTSC with PAL times.
If you'd convert my time to the NTSC run my run would be about 7 seconds slower then the TAS (that is rounded up). Also the time of the NTSC TAS run, when counted like it's counted @ SDA is 1:01 iirc, so that would make my run 1:08 in NTSC time. Just thought I'd point it out.

So that's my point of view/responds on it. Hope you enjoyed the reading Tongue

Bottom line: either I suck with 1-frame tricks or 50% really is too optimistic.
and either I have bad luck or the verifier is also too optimistic with the luck you need on the 2nd/3rd level. (In my math example I gave them the same amount of luck needed, but I'm a 100% sure you need more luck in the 3rd level, maybe numbers of 40% for level 2 and 30% for level 3 would have been more realistic, but that really wouldn't change much)


This was the verifier's response

Quote:
Hi
I have to answer as soon as possible to the runner, so I wrote everything this morning and I stupidly delete my

message... sorry for that.

First of all, I want to say that I didn't notice that was a PAL version, but you clearly don't loose 30 seconds on

this run with all your "mistakes" (or "imperfections" maybe...). As you said, there is maybe 7 seconds of

"improvement" in this whole run so it IS a good run. I want to say right now : I won't be sad if this run is on SDA.

It's a good run, particularly for a legit run. But i'll explain why I didn't accept it before :

You (the runner) explain nicely (wich is cool and honnest) every little detail of his run. But as I said before, you

said : "First level could have been a bit faster IF that barrel I jumped over went down the first ladder" or "Third

level could of saved time IF that flame guy...". So for me, it's look like : "I run the game to the end, even if I was

unlucky and I don't remake it even if I think it can be faster if I try". I said it's look like because I know that is

hard as hell to make even a 1.30 run with bug exploit and 1 frame glitchs. But for the casual gamer, it can be strange

to say that. I don't want you to change your comment. But if you really think that the jump over the barrel is slower,

why don't you try to make a run without it ? Did this ladder trick is so difficult not to try again ? (and yes, it is

so difficult...). All in all, I don't think that is the biggest problem in this run, because you should loose

something like 1/10 sec...

The second level is nearly impossible to run perfectly as you said. So I won't complain to much about it. You miss the

jump fom the 2nd elevator to the upper platform wich force you to loose 2 seconds to reach this stupid platform, and

probably at least 1 more because of the springs. So you loose 3 or 4 of the 7 seconds because of this jump. And to be

honnest, I watch the run and the TAS carefully, and I don't really see why you are late... So it's not a big problem

for me.

The third level... And the 1frame glitch. I'm aggree with you, my math were pretty abused, and I won't ask you to make

the 3. I think that the one ou can do in the upper left corner is cool, but for TAS run. The one on the upper right

corner... It's like if you miss the ladder, but you don't have to turn back so it's not so bad. If you are really

affraid of this glitch, make the jump. But I think that would be really entertraining, and save maybe 2 seconds to

take the left path on the 4th "pillar" (what is it eactly ? I never see anything else wich allows platforms not to

fall, even if the platform don't touch it...) and to make at least one of theese glitch... The problem is, in this

case, why not trying to make the three ones. It would be strange to make only one.

Overall, this run is really cool. I just think that it could be really more entertaining if you put something like the

1 frame glitch in it. Otherwise, seriously, what is really skilled in this run ? To be able to predict the flame move

to take the good path ? (And yes, I know that the run IS really difficult, but it don't look like so difficult). Maybe

you will say :" He is one of theese guys who want to see crazy things, even if the trick doesn't allow to win any

time...". Yes it's true, I love entertaining things, but I'm also one of theese guys who like to see "without bug"

(understand old) runs... And I'm one of theese guys who really enjoy taking time on SDA and want from the runners to

make theirs best to make the most beautiful, crazy, and particularly fast runs.

Runner, if you have some time to loose, just try to make one of theese glitch, and one or two funny things in this

game, but if you can't even more listen the "wet socks" (it's not from me... -_-') sound mario makes when he runs, I'm

aggree to accept this good run.


Decision: Accept

Reason: It's short and optimized.
Thread title:  
Hi! I'm andrewg!
I'm a little confused as to why it's only 3 levels. There are 4 levels total right like in arcade DK?

EDIT: oh, so I guess the NES version doesn't have the pie/conveyor level that I love.
You got a deletion wish?
Quote from andrewg:
oh, so I guess the NES version doesn't have the pie/conveyor level that I love.

Apple II version does.
DS Dictator
Quote from andrewg:
I'm a little confused as to why it's only 3 levels. There are 4 levels total right like in arcade DK?

EDIT: oh, so I guess the NES version doesn't have the pie/conveyor level that I love.


It's because of the memory limitations that didn't add on the pie/conveyor level and other stuff such as DK climbing up to the top of 25M (first level) and taking Pauline away after Mario clears a level.
Master-88
Congrats Zalibr nice run.:) Cheesy