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My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Diablo2LoD.html

Laszlo Seta's Assassin run

Verifier Responses

I'm not sure why the first verifier thought the run was single-segment. The load and save screens were not cut out of the video.

Quote:
The run is very nice. The fact that it is one segment and has no deaths is just spectacular. A lot of luck is involved with running this game and I commend him for even trying it.

accept


Quote:
Well, the run is kosher and the A/V is definitely acceptable, but there are a lot of hiccups that kind of bother me.  Not enough to get in the way of my accepting this, but enough that I want to give a stern glare to bimanc for a few seconds.

Firstly, I am very against the idea of Countess segments.  Sure, they give exp and runes, but runes can be manipulated off of normal packs, and there are better ways to farm for exp.  Since you get both at once, and the speed was kept fairly high, it seems more that my personal taste is getting in the way.  I would have liked to see more manipulation of runes in better places, though.  Oh well.

A big pet peeve of mine is when people run past the set chests in the tower.  I know that early on in Normal, you aren't going to be getting a lot of good drops.  However, these chests have abnormally high drop rates and are on the way.  A few times, bimanc runs right past them without even popping them open.  The chance of a random rests charm or some gems worth money seems too high to pass these up.  Granted, the chests sometimes do get opened, but it seems silly to pass them up so often.  This takes place during segments where rune drops and exp takes precedence, though, so I concede this as well.

Getting level 12 before Andariel seems like a no brainer.  This, coupled with the fact that an extra leveling segment was needed to hit 20 on time, seems like a good improvement to make on the next version.  Bimanc admits that this was a possibility, and that the Fire Blast method seems to have a faster short term investment, but I think WoF by Andariel would have been possible with more exp shrines/less skill shrines.  The saves of extra levels early on would be easily felt through the rest of the run by means of more health, stronger WoF, and earlier Stealth/Leaf.

Otherwise, all of Act 1 is pretty good.  There were a few tiny mistakes pertaining to movement and inventory stuff, but everyone is going to make them anyways, so whatever.  Good gamble, though.

Act 2 is high quality as well.  Map routing seemed spot on, Maggot Lair was great, and exp was flowing faster than I had expected.  I wish the Arcane was it's own segment, though, since there were a few chokepoints that could have been manipulated elsewhere.  I would also suggest redoing Duriel for better drops, as bimanc admits that he gets no really good drops at any point in the game.  Something with FRW, CBF, or +mana would be great.  The Duriel fight itself was pretty quick for the painful event it always seems to be.

Act 3 is a toss up.  The quality of play is good and the map movement is planned out very well, but it seems like better usage of the traps would have lead to better exp gains.  Some large groups are passed up, others leave some survivors, and the lack of exp or skill shrines really cuts in to these.  Skipping the Gidbinn (twice, which I'll get back to) is faster, but the chance of a really nice ring seems worth the 5-10 seconds.  Not killing a lot of uniques/all of the council also caused a huge loss of exp.  The time running through the Durance without any weapon was non-negligible, and I can't think of why bimanc didn't just hold on to the Eagle Scratch for just a bit longer.  I would have liked to see Travincal and Durance as their own segment so that better drops would be managed.  Oh well.  The Meph fight was a bit of a doozy, but I have no real complaints about it.

Now, I know that the exp all syncs up at the very last second of the run, but I still think that the leveling segment that takes place in the middle of Act 4 could have been counteracted with more killing earlier and occasionally killing some of the enemies in Act 4.  They are all huddled together and will still give some exp, so stopping for ~3/4 of a second to drop a trap and kill 10 demons seems like it would be worth it.  I know that it's faster to get exp in A3, but the time spent there could have been negated.  Furthermore, if you are trying to avoid killing due to bad exp, why was so much of the Chaos Sanctuary killed off when they could have been avoided?  I know that it's risky to keep them around, but I think that more than a few negligible seconds were lost mopping up random mobs.

The Diablo fight was pretty fluid.  I don't know if bimanc's method is necessarily faster than marsh's hiding method, but I do know that marsh didn't have to use as many health potions and didn't have to dodge lightning hoses.  Just food for thought.

Act 5 was to be expected.  Lots of running and avoiding.  I have the same question as to whether random traps here would have lowered the exp deficit a bit and made the extra leveling segment unnecessary.  I think a very very small amount of time could be saved by segmenting at Frigid Highlands, but bimanc already addressed that.  Getting level 20 at the last second was cute, though I think getting that in Act 4 would have been better.  Ancients went way faster than I had predicted, parking the last two Minion groups was really great, and the Baal fight went from iffy to awesome pretty fast.  Bimanc ran out of money for potions (which ended up not mattering) despite the fact that a few things could have been sold from the throne room floor.  You could have maybe even afforded your cold merc again, which would have slowed Baal enough to get maximized damage output.  Oh well.  Getting Baal to stand still in the WSC was really great and it more than makes up for the small mistakes otherwise.

So, things to note for possible improvements:
Try to get runes outside of Countess runs.
Try to hit 12 before Andariel, as it speeds her up and makes leveling faster in Act 2.
Don't have a bonus leveling segment (duh).
Get better drops.  If not for the stats, at least for a money surplus.
Try to get something with CBF to speed up everything, but the Baal fight needed it most of all.

Piddly, stupid improvements that will save seconds overall:
Hotkey Melee and Fire Blast on left click.
Don't pass up simple drop points that could speed you up in the process.
Make more segments to better manipulate mob locations.
Use Cain to identify lots of things at once, rather than buying scrolls yourself.
Shortcuts to sell, which bimanc forgot to do sometimes.

That being said, the run is great, it improves on the old run by a lot, and really shows how overpowered a low level trapper can be.  I would have liked an inventory and stat glimpse at the beginning of every segment to help verify consistency, but it's not a big deal.  Someone else can check if his gold count doesn't change.

P.S. Oh, and maybe having a belt of 3 mana/1 health would have made things a bit faster.  Maybe a few stat points in Energy to help reduce the need for mana potions.  Food for thought.


Quote:
0:07: Video quality is not very good, but it looks like an encoding thing. Hopefully there's a higher quality video included... still good enough to read text and see what's going on though.

0:12 After watching the first segment, the leveling looked really fast, so just to satiate my paranoia, I'm adding up all the exp for the first 2 levels. I'm not accusing the runner of being dishonest, it's just how I do things.

0:44 good find on stamina potion

1:05 First level looks legit, i'm satisfied, no more counting

1:14 really sexy bosspack, and it gives a full level by itself. Nice stuff, that fire ballr eally kicks ass

1:41 wow another exp shrine, amazing segment

2:10 Not really spending all the points, I'm assuming it's gonna go towards energy, but for the upcoming raka fight would be better to put them in now

2:30 damn that xp is nice!

2:45 it's unfortunate that this xp shrine is so far away, but the runner makes up for it by having an extra bosspack to kill.

3:15 this leveling is incredibly fast

4:31 as the runner notes, the skill shrine for BoS is great.

5:43 arg! spend those stat points!

5:59 this fire and forget leveling is really what the assassin is all about, it's very nice

6:34 I'm surprised the runner went to stony at all here, I can't tell if the shrine in blackmarsh is a real shrine or just a health shrine, but he could have gotten that one if the former. It's just surprising to see going out of your way to kill without an exp shrine, although it seems to work quite well. No points deducted

7:54 clean, well rehearsed town segment

8:10 good job s+e'ing before checking the katar, that does save a couple seconds off the run if you check it after.

8:12 I really wish this wasn't the closest shrine, the exp is starting to get bad for raki

9:50 clean countess run

10:10 It looks like this raki kill was mostly for potions? No shrine - that's kinda odd, but runner is right, it's probably better than getting them at town. Ithink he shoulda gotten an exp shrine here though, for all the killing he does in the tower. The runner comments on the otherwise high luck manipulation needed on this segment, but the exp shrine would have saved time, so there you go

11:21 god i'm sick of that baby crying music. Nice runes

14:00 the leveling in that segment was great as the runner notes

15:03 Now this I don't like. He goes out of the way to get the exp shrine and kill raka (again mostly for potions i believe). Then he gets a really light spawn of enemies, which is fine because of the running, but his first bosspack he gets his exp shrine cursed off him (on a bolt he could have avoided nonetheless). I would have restarted the segment here since the only thing that's gone right so far has been the exp shrine.

15:30 Not much to fight and the segment is mostly just a run to the next wp, so I have to question the wisdom of getting the xp shrine in the first place. I think that segment was relatively weak.

17:00 it was a good idea to get the skill shrine here, considering it lasts all teh way to andy and she gets burned up pretty easily. Frightening fight, but I would have put some antidote potions in the belt while running to andy, would have saved a few seconds on the andy fight. Still very good.

18:30 I was expecting this to be an exp shrine, raka kill, and a couple bosspacks outside A2 to hit level 12, but it was a run to the WP, which I think works just fine. Hopefully he can get 12 soon, it will save him quite a lot of time moving forward.

19:20 For all this reliance on that stony field shrine, it's really far from the WP. It's nice to have it sooo close to stones as well, but I hope any A2 leveling is done with an shrine near the A2 wp as raka is going to become pretty meaningless.

20:02 gotta love that wake of fire. Obscene leveling power.

20:30 man this is a very nice map for things like this tp drop. Very impressd witht he map manipulation

21:36 we can see the raw power of wake of fire for leveling. Very nice.

22:07 It's curious that the runner didn't sell any of those minor potions - he hasn't been adding potions from his inventory much if at all, and they're just taking up space.

22:56 This is a hard place, but the runner still wastes a lot of time in inefficient clicking. There's a couple places where he stops by accident, and also lays traps when fire bombs would just be plain better. Still, the map is relatively empty of mobs compared to how you often see it, so great manipulation here. Extremely fast for a trapsin run of maggot lair.

25:00 Sad that this is the closest shrine, there's gonna be a lot of total time lost if this is used forever. I know this is the third time i've commented on it, but whatever. The runner does a good job compensating for this by having fewer longer leveling segments, like this one.

28:41 another rough spot for the trapsin. I believe a lot of these enemies are fire resistent which makes fighting here even more difficult. Not much that can be done about it, you're going to face something similar no matter what when you come here, though I would have liked to see some preemptive traps on the 'joints' of the sanctuary where there's always big groups.

30:01 i don't know why he didn't use spacebar to cancel the dialague without moving the mouse, he lost almost a second in just talking to warriv!!

30:30 I really think he should have held out for a skill shrine here, the running is nontrivial, there's no manipulation up to that point, and it would help a lot more than CR on duriel - especially with the thaws already bought.

32:20 Pretty smooth battle for being so underlevel. Well fought.

37:00 finally able to use the armor and the runs peed shows. Only interesting point is that the runner bothered to get and turn in the jade statue - it costs a decent amount of time to turn in and the hp it adds is not very important.

41:30 Really light spawns in this dungeon, which isn't uncommon, but props to the runner for memorizing all these maps so well. It's a long segment

42:10 Now this surprises me - why does the runner want a mana recharge shrine? It's at the beginning of the segment so he can manipulate anything - why not skill or exp or stamina? He has three rows of mana potions in his belt as well - i don't agree with this choice, it makes me wonder if it was manipulated or not.

47:14 The runner barely manages to hit level 19 and equip the Leaf staff for the Meph fight - which is greay well done. I'm not sure why he runs away during the fight though, althought he runner mentions his paranoia in the comments. Still, this segment started with manipulating a shopkeeper item, so I can't held too much contempt.

49:33 This is a long fight for two synergy points - but the assassin has no way to cheat boss battles, which means dia/ancients/baal will all be long fights too - I think the time spent was worth it.

52:05 The runner miscalculates the exp in act 4 and has to go back to level. It's really deceptive how low the exp is, but it's because the monsters there jack up in level so fast that the monster exp scales so heavily (why does it do that anyway?). It's not bad, because at least now he can wear an exp shrine while killing. Pretty good enemy spawns for leveling too, and ther unner uses the gidbin to spawn an extra pack which is smart.

54:50 I was wondeirng how the asn was going to kill this guy, and here's the answer. I can't say it's a bad decision, and I don't see any better solution. The poor guy sticks around even thouhg his job is done and his death is assured.

58:45 Hmm, I woulda done two things different here: 1) lure diablo to the same corner Marsh did and fight him there, 2) go back to an A1 wp near a shrine and get a skill shrine. This fight is kinda sloppy, although one can't put too much blame on the runner.

1:06:43 Ouch the mana burn proves an early set back. Again I wonder why the runner didn't manipulate a skill shrine - i really don't think there's much cold damage to take - and she already has cold resist on her gear. Curious.

1:09:00 Wow, impressive that the runner is skipping the WSK WP and going right to kill baal int he same segment. He notes the WP's were out of the way, so this was probably a good idea, and there's no real ways to cheat killing speed, so the only real goal is to not die and not mess up. Again the fire immune has to be cold bolted to death by mister dispensable.

01:11:08 Why is the main menu music playing?? I didn't know it did that... Bye bye merc.

1:13:20 I'm really surprised the minions didn't follow the runner into the throne room - i guess it goes along with the fast run speed.

1:15:46 Why didn't the runner sell some unneccesary gear, or the gems sitting in his inventory to afford some more potions? It is probably enough, but it still feels wrong to me.

All in all this was a very good run. It's hard to look everywhere for consistency between segments since the inventory is often hidden to us, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.  I say approve.


Quote:
there are various audio desyncs (different each segment unfortunately)

my main problem is that he doesn't wait for Tyrael to appear at the end and click on him, so he doesn't technically complete the game (doesn't get the ending FMV, for instance)

that's bad


I talked to the verifier about these issues.

Quote:
me: IIRC, you get the ending even if you don't click on Tyrael at the end.
me: I'm not noticing any desync
me: and none of the other verifiers mentioned one
Verifier: weird. i got very distinct and varying desyncs
Verifier: -0.4 on first segment, about right on second, etc.
me: oh yeah do you have anything to say about the run?
me: aside from the ending?
me: I can ask other verifiers about the ending btw
Verifier: it's good but i'm not sure it's as good as the sorc run
Verifier: the xp shrines he uses aren't very close to the waypoints
Verifier: and he has some stupid play early on but he gets r id of that fast
Verifier: those are the only negatives really
Verifier: also one of his maps sucked but you can't win them all


Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a huge improvement over the previous run.
Thread title:  
Well I was the first verifier and to tell you it was because when you save in single player it takes you back to the character select screen, I believe. So I thought he was saving to get back to town faster than warping. The fact that it looked very much like he was saving and loading over and over, it never occurred to me that it was multi-segmented. Is that weird? I just thought he has the best luck in the world and he needed to come to Vegas with me. Grin
The Dork Knight himself.
Speedrunners aren't allowed in Vegas, apparently they don't like us trying to "segment" the card games and "manipulate" the "enemy AI." Must be run by the TG staff.....
Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!
Quote from Steagle Colbeagle:
Well I was the first verifier and to tell you it was because when you save in single player it takes you back to the character select screen, I believe. So I thought he was saving to get back to town faster than warping. The fact that it looked very much like he was saving and loading over and over, it never occurred to me that it was multi-segmented. Is that weird? I just thought he has the best luck in the world and he needed to come to Vegas with me. Grin


When you save in a run, that's already segmented. Wink And saving in D2 throws you back to the main menu, not in the chara select screen.

Anyway, Thank you everyone, i'm happy it is accepted, and i know that this run has many flows, so i want to improve it.

Some answers to the verifiers:

To the mysterious second verifier (hi there, Zurreco):

- I don't like the idea of manipulating runes from normal enemies/chests, but i will probably try something like that.
- Getting lvl 12 early, level up earlier, leveling segment in a4, these are the main problems of this run. This was a good lesson in diablo speedrunning, and i will definitely concentrate more on this matter.
- High council gave me tiny exp, so i didn't bothered with them.
- In Chaos Sanctuary i was a little scared chicken, i admit. I will try to make that place go down much faster.
-

To the third verifier:

- Not spending the stat point at 2:10,  i clicked with shift+mouse, but the game didn't recognized it, and i didn't noticed, that i only spent 1 point.
- At 30:30, i wanted to have either a skill or a cold res shrine, but the shrine was a bitch, and the attempt didn't go well, so i bought thawings, just to be safe.
- At 42:10, i didn't manipulate any shrine, just picked up it if it was useful.
- At 1:06:46, again i didn't manipulate the shrine, just picked it up. I didn't count on shrines at that point. It has a very interesting reason. (below)
- About the last segment: it was a bit risky to do ancients and baal all at once, plus i forgot to sell those gems, or other items, i screwed up a few things, but that segment was simply blind luck, because i was umm, a bit drunk and didn't expect to have anything good from that recording session.

Overall, you pointed out many possible improvements and mistakes, i thank you for that, and i will surely implement them in my next assassin run, which will be the "real one".
m00
Quote:
Firstly, I am very against the idea of Countess segments.  Sure, they give exp and runes, but runes can be manipulated off of normal packs, and there are better ways to farm for exp.

I think there are only three monsters in act 1 that can drop runes: Andariel (Nef), Countess (Ral) and Cows (duh). Chests don't drop runes until act 2, either.

For a Ral rune, some of your chances are:
1:8 Countess
1:479 Duriel (Quest)
1:482 Mephisto (Quest)
1:884 Council Members (Travincal)
1:4349 Chests in act 3 onward (doesn't drop from chests in act 1 or 2)

When using Leaf, a visit to the countess is hard to avoid.


Quote:
Try to get something with CBF to speed up everything

"something"? The only item with CBF that can be worn before lvl 28 is Death's Guard (set sash). Again some chances (with 0% mf):

1:744 The Smith
1:758 Griswold
1:833 Andariel (Quest)
1:881 Rakanishu
1:881 Treehead Woodfist
1:2341 Mephisto (Quest)

if you're lucky, Rakanishu spawns close to the waypoint. An extra segment to manipulate the sash wouldn't hurt, if your sanity permits it.


(as usual, shameless plug to my drop-calculator, which is still correct for any monster on normal difficulty).
a sash would have slowed down the run since it has few slots and thawing potions are a better choice for a few secs of coldness then.

When will the run be posted? I want more than youtube quality!