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mikwuyma: 2008-11-28 03:18:09 pm
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ConkersBadFurDay.html

Karl 'Normand Nubcake' Grenier's 100% single-segment run

Verifier Responses

Quote:
Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64)
100% run with deaths
Game time - 1:39:00

First of all I want to say that this speedrun is a stark improvement from SnapDragon’s run. It obsoletes the somewhat outdated attempt by over 31 minutes, which is quite a feat in itself.

Whilst the structure of the game does not lend itself to route manipulation, this run does highlight some clever tricks that promotes a fluid and fast completion of the game. Of notable mention is the glitch during the Zombies chapter that saves a large amount of time.

It is clear that the runner is highly skilled in CBFD, evidenced through his consistent and proficient approach to the game.  The Countdown chapter was skilfully run, a notoriously difficult section of the game. However the most impressive element was the excellent timing which could only be the result of careful planning.

The boss fights were quick and efficient, despite the slight hiccup on the Buga the Knut which was forgivable. A few mistakes hampered the run, such as missing the cog (28 min) and missing the jump during the Phlegm chapter (48 min), but they only added a few seconds. There were as a few sloppy sections such as when destroying the submarines (1h 30min). I can only see a mistake free run being 30 – 50 secs quicker. That being said, there were sections where the runner was very lucky. The sweet corn section just before the Great Mighty Poo battle was one of these sections, where the sweet corn seemed to fall into Conker’s hands (37:27).

The runner does die once in the War section. The comments suggest that this might be a form of death abuse. The question would be whether this could’ve been averted. From an aesthetic point of view, it doesn’t look all that great. However, I do see the benefit of this in speedrunning this section.

Both the video and sound quality are excellent for such a small file. There are no interruptions throughout the capture, and whilst the image quality is by no means high-def, it is of a quality that does justice to the game and the console. Of mention is the Rock Solid chapter and the tripping beats that will rattle any subwoofer.

From the best of my knowledge, the run is cheat free.

Summing up, the run is quick whilst being fun to watch. A worthy addition to SDA.


Quote:
This run is what SDA should be made of.  I noticed less than one minute of mistakes, and the only death was intentional.  It was played risky the whole way through.  No cheating, no audio/video problems.


Quote:
Cheating
Plenty.

Just kidding. There’s one area that might cause some questions to arise, but I’ve noted it and said why it isn’t.

Quality (Capture)
MP4’s in VLC are the greatest things ever (AKA: No problems here boss).

Quality (Gameplay)
Hungover:
- Jumps in and out of the water instead of swimming against the current.
- Manages to knock the key over on his first hit, and right next to the door.

Windy, part 1:
- Awesome slingshot shooting. Every shot hits and he doesn’t get hit like SnapDragon did in his run.

Barn Boys:
- Manages to knock down a cheese right away.
- Pulls off a cool timesaver which involves jumping to a ledge occupied by a block instead of waiting to go around… twice. There being limited room is what makes this trick so impressive.
- The haystacks go perfectly, which is rare. Frankie hits every one successfully. Sometimes the hit-boxes are iffy and even though he’ll stab right through a section, it doesn’t register the hit. Not making excuses (for something that didn’t happen), it’s just worth pointing out for people that didn’t know.
- Pulls off the switch warp trick which involves jumping and grabbing the switch at the right time, so after the cutscene is skipped, the runner is warped to grabbing the switch again instead of having to run over to it from the center of the room.
- Instead of doing the Tickly Bees, he goes into the barn to free Frankie and defeat Haybot first. He not only skips the third platform, but shows an interesting technique where you don’t have to throw 4 blades at Frankie, but instead two at the bats and then two at Frankie.
- Haybot is a fucking bitch. His attack pattern is random and he starts off in a different spot every time you fight him, including his attack/rest pattern. The runner gets knocked off Frankie once trying to pull off a hard trick, but I’m pretty sure the old run did too. The old run also had to wait for Haybot to stop attacking and sneak up behind him, the runner here gets REALLY lucky and manages to stab two consecutive times after getting knocked off, and before Haybot has a chance to knock him off again.
- No problems with Terminator Haybot.
- Again uses water jumping to go faster. Also uses jumps on the ladder.
- Manages to cut down all six electrical wires using only 6 knives (unlike the old run), even the far away ones. Wow.
- Has a sudden ADHD attack while the water is rising. No time lost.
- Uses a mega shortcut to get to the big-boobed flower involving some pretty risky high jumps.
- Loses 3 seconds to a failed high-jump on a sloped roof.

Windy, part 2:
- The bull part goes perfectly, which is really saying something because anyone who’s actually tried it will tell you horror stories. He even lines up the second bull so that he gets his head stuck in the side of the board. I thought you had to make him run straight, miss, and then line him up to go into the board. I thought you had to do this for the third bull too, but he gets him after one head butt to the boards. His timing on this is also incredible. If you’re holding that control stick at slightly the wrong angle, the bull will go charging all over the place and throw you off.
- Avoids getting squashed by all the dung beetles (unlike the last run).
- That jump he uses as a shortcut is a pretty big risk, because if he’s off just slightly, it’s ka-splat.

Bats Tower
- Ah yes, the ascent to heaven guided by the camera from hell. This area isn’t so bad once you know where it’s safe to jump from and far you can get.
- Pulls off a trick I thought was really hard to do when I was trying it. It has the runner jump from a rope to a very thin platform (landing it constantly was where I had trouble) and then over to the money, skipping having to circle the area to get to it.
- Cog catching/collecting goes perfectly.
- Does the OPEN with the sling-shot perfectly.
- Fire Imp pissing goes really well.
- While battling the Mumbling Brass Balled Furnace, if you pull the chain at the wrong time, a short real-time cutscene occurs, and it can even occur twice. The runner avoids activating it here.

Sloprano:
- Corn collecting goes fantastically well. He manages to sneak up behind them ALL and smack them. He even goes lucky and has one knocked over for him. He gets even more lucky when a lump of crap knocks over the last one, but he knocks it down again just to be safe. Man, he couldn’t have gotten more lucky.
- I had no idea you where invulnerable if you stayed in the starting position during the Great Mighty Poo fight. Cool trick.
- For the final phase of the fight, the runner manages to toss some toilet paper ahead of time into a spawn point, which goes right into the GMP’s mouth the second he comes up. He does this two more times, but not quite as quick. He still gets each one in on the first guess.

Uga Buga:
- The blades of doom get swam through lightning quick. This is pretty impressive, since they move fast and touching the sides means game over. Also, them touching even your pinky toe means the same thing.
- Manages to push the rock guy through the drunken rock guys pretty well, instead of around the outside like the last run did.
- Leading those 4 guys up the ramp can be troublesome, because sometimes one or two will fall behind for no reason and need to be retrieved. It doesn’t happen here.
- Rock Solid is the best of both worlds. It has the greatest music ever - it has the most fucking annoying speedrun-killer ever. The rock guys have different movement patterns. They can start off in different places and move when you’re just about to get to one. They can get caught on corners while being pushed with the piss. Being off one slight degree in your starting point could mean they get pushed where you don’t want them to go and there’s no way to get them back. Where you hit them with the piss determines their speed and direction, and you can’t move. Also, sometimes they just shoot off in one direction for no reason.
- The first guy lines himself up perfectly for the runner. He needs to waste piss after that anyway because the cure is on a timer.
- The next two guys go perfectly. Obviously it’s okay if he needed to manipulate the first of the two first.
- For the Bomb Run, he drops off the platform instead of going around like the old run did.
- The Surf Punks section goes perfectly. He misses a few frying pan shots on the last guy, but it doesn’t matter because he needs to wait to get to the gate anyway.
- The waves of club cavemen go good; he manages to knock two into the lava at once, twice. The spear guys get handled equally as well. The final wave of guys goes the same way, and he also knocks two in at once here. This is overall much faster than the old run.
- Loses at least 8 seconds to being knocked off Fangy by Bugga, but quickly recovers.

Windy, part 3:
- The hornet shooting goes really, really well for such a random battle.
- The runner scales the carnivorous worm hill much faster than the old run.

Spooky:
- Uses a jumping trick which prevents him from having to go around the map to grab a switch. He fails it the first time, but gets it the second.
- Zombie shooting goes a lot faster than it did in the old run, despite both getting munched at one point or another.
- Gets stabbed by the villagers in the Count Batula part, but this actually puts him closer to the guy he knocked down. Also, a stabbing in the library seems to happen 90% of the time anyway.
- He also has to take some time to get health.
- Gets stabbed by them again in the hallway. I thought raiding the garden would be faster.
- The big out-of-bounds run-breaker that saves well over 6 minutes happens here. I can tell you he’s not cheating because I tried it myself and pulled it off.

It’s War (Oh Rare, I love you so much for this chapter):
- Nothing goes wrong with the first part, except getting zapped by the electric eel.
- Yes, the bullets on the beach are that inaccurate.
- Instead of hopping over the fence with a crouch-jump, he runs right off a tank trap and jumps over quicker.
- The first 5 Tediz go very well, he doesn’t even get shot once.
- Another neat trick and great timesaver that I had no idea existed was that you could just run by all the Tediz in the hall and kill them at the end. This prevents you from having to switch back and fourth between your weapons and change views all the time.
- The runner uses this trick again for the next hallway, and it’s even more impressive because he needs to jump over killer laser while being set on fire by flamethrowers. This saves a ton of time compared to the last run.
- In the medical ward, he gets a better vantage point on all the doctor Tediz, but the final doctor knocks him off and stabs him, costing him at least 6 seconds.
- In a move that almost costs him the run and takes big balls to pull off, he only waits for one reload from the Rambo Tedi and runs right up the rope. He gets shot, taking off 2 health and leaving him one shot away (still has two) from death, but is able to kill him.
- Gunning them all down afterwards goes very well, and he gets shot again, which leaves him one shot away from death again.
- The runner has to take it slow here to make sure Rodent follows him. If he gets too far away, he gets stuck and you have to go back to get him.
- I noticed there’s a new rule in the guidelines that states to tell you if there’s a death, so in case you’re just skimming over this: THERE’S A DEATH IN THE RUN! But never fear, this is a case of death abuse used to save over well over a minute of game time in what is no doubt Lag.Com’s favorite part: The Lock. The Lock has four parts that need to be blasted, and after one gets shot, 4 enemies parachute in and sharp-shoot you from the riverbank. You’d normally need to clear them out before proceeding to the second part. By blasting all four parts off at once, the door opens and the runner dies instead of fighting waves of enemies. He comes back to life and the door is open and the enemies are gone. I understand the old run did this to avoid deaths, but it’s a good timesaver.
- Uses another good timesaver in Chemical Warfare where he jumps over the Spider Mines instead of jumping back across the acid and waiting for them to explode. Getting burnt by the acid also avoids more time-wasting knock-downs by the last Spider Mine which he couldn’t normally avoid.
- Employs a risky strategy that pays off - he manages to anvil drop the bridge just before The Tower sees him and get back to the tank. If The Tower starts shooting you, it’s game over.
- Uses another great trick in the tank where he peaks around the corner of The Tower and shoots its last support second. When he blows out the last one (normally the third), he is able to jump out and cross the gap to the lower level instead of going around and across a narrow bridge.
- The runner unintentionally demonstrates the iffy hitboxes of the submarines perfectly here. He looses at least 15 seconds, but not compared to the old run, and he doesn’t get knocked down.
- The Experiment gets taken out without any trouble and with record speed.
- In another risky move, he runs by all the Tediz in the hallway again while jumping through many lasers.
- You know, I never saw the last part of this level coming. It’s simple yet I never thought to do it. I was like, “Why didn’t he jump the fence?” and I was amazed by the reason why: he was going for a bigger and better trick. This section features Tediz all armed with bazookas that will instantly cause a game-over if they hit you. The last dash is particularly tricky, because it has three of them all aiming at you at once and if you don’t jump at the exact right time, it’s boom. The runner avoids all of this by jumping off a tank trap over the fence to the exit.

Windy, part 4:
- Jumps from the edge to the hill, which is pretty far. This also means he avoids going around the long way like the old run did.

Heist:
- Handles all the weasels very well. There’s one part at the end where the rolling weasel glitch happens. It’s where you shoot one in bullet-time, only he doesn’t enter the death animation and keeps rolling in place, even after you’ve come out of bullet time. The runner decides to shoot him to get him out of it instead of waiting for him to just die, and is almost killed himself. It’s funny and scary at the same time.
- The battle against Heinrich goes well, in the way that he has one piece of health left and doesn’t die. The third phase goes a bit unlucky for attacks being launched by him, but the runner survives.

Timing
Player moves Conker at: 2422 (00:01:20.814)
Final cutscene starts at: 178616 (1:39:19.826)

Overall time: 1:37:59.012

Importance
Damn. Just damn. This speedrun totally obliterates the old one by OVER HALF AN HOUR. Sorry, I’m just excited. I think I’ve said more than enough by this point. This run is a lot harder than it looks, but the runner kept practicing until all those hard parts were mastered. There are still some mistakes, but in the long run, they are far overshadowed by the other things that are pulled off instead. This is a perfect situation for SDA. It replaces the old ways of an SDA-then speedrun with the up-to-date standards of an SDA-now speedrun. It’s the oldest run on SDA, but it’s time that it got a much-needed update.


Quote:
Video Quality:
Fine. No Complaints.

Cheating:
I spotted no inconsistencies or cheating.

Gameplay Comments:.

Overall: The gameplay is of great quality. Great routes, nice shortcuts, great sequence.

Criticisms/Compliments:

Getting hit by HayBot was unfortunate, but a great fight nonetheless.

Great Mighty Poo Fight was great despite the hit. THE best toilet paper throwing i've seen.

"Meh" fight with Unga Bunga. not bad though.

Not sure why he stood in poo mountain in the crevice so long.

Spotty operation of the turret.

Fantastic shortcut at the beginning of "Spooky".

The glitch in the mansion is done great. Although confusing looking, i feel it's perfectly legit as far as edits etc.

The beginning of "War" is great. Running past the teddiz is hard.

Unfortunate that the Surgeon Teddi was very aggressive.

**Death: The comments say the death was intentional, and it does look like it, but did it really need to be done? Eh..

Unlucky with the subs not getting hit, but not bad. Just not aiming high enough most of the time.

Perfect Giant Teddi fight.

Fantastic navigation of the lasers. Can be really nerve-racking that far in a run.

Near death in the Heist. Sloppy, but acceptable at this point. Made the last boss fight better since he had 1 hit.

Overall: Good play quality and execution. Some time could be saved, but not as much as he saved over the previous run.

Accepted.


Quote:
Been waiting for a faster version of this game. This really needs a sequal.

Timing: From the second you can move Conker till when the Alien cutscence comes up after throwing him for the 3rd time.

Sound Quality: Great

Graphics Quality: Great

Speed and Mistakes: Seems great, fast and fluent. Obviously a good knowledge of the game and routes have been planned. Shame about that the 3rd cog in Bats Tower and the Buga fight but maybe one day we'll see a run minus these mistakes.

Overall Decision: Approve. Really awesome run. Loved this game as a kid nice to see all the shortcuts and tactics used. Well done.


Quote:
I've watched the run and I spotted no signs of cheating. There was a couple of legal glitches used to save time, which I don't consider cheating. The runner DOES die in the playthrough, however, it was intentional as a use of deathwarping. So this might qualify for a separate category. Either way, this run is very impressive and faster than the old run by nearly half an hour. Definitely accepted.


Decision: Accept

Reason: This run annihilates the current run.

Question for anyone who has played through the game. It sounds like any% and 100% are very similar, with only one tiny difference. Should I make 100% a requirement?
Thread title:  
Fucking Weeaboo
Well, looking at the notes on the page...

Quote:
I played the game in Chapters mode so I could skip the hours of cinema scenes (as I'm sure any sane person would do). Also, I get all the money in the game; you can only skip $100, so why not get it all? (Technically this is a 100% run, as opposed to a "minimal" 99% run...)


That sounds like virtually no difference.  Might as well make it the requirement.

(Note: I have never played the game.  I only remembered reading this on our current run page.)
You got a deletion wish?
Quote:
Overall time: 1:37:59.012


Oh shit, it's Radix cursed! Shocked
Cowabunga? Cowa-piece-of-fucking-dog-shit!
i'd day yeah. make a 100% requirement.
Complete. Global. Saturation.
If you were to skip any $100, it'd probably have to be the one in the Sunny Days section with the sunflower. I think it'd only make a minute's difference anyway. Plus, getting all those bees and every bundle of cash is better to see in a speedrun.
two rows of links on main page pretty nifty
Quote from The_Quiet_Man:
If you were to skip any $100, it'd probably have to be the one in the Sunny Days section with the sunflower. I think it'd only make a minute's difference anyway. Plus, getting all those bees and every bundle of cash is better to see in a speedrun.

The only $100 that is skippable is the one right after the Spooky chapter behind the waterfall.  It can be jumped.
Complete. Global. Saturation.
Quote from RJWaters2:
The only $100 that is skippable is the one right after the Spooky chapter behind the waterfall.  It can be jumped.


I could have sworn that you didn't need all the $100 bundles to ride that barrel down the hill. Maybe I'm just not remembering it correctly.
Heh, I didn't think this run would get six verifiers. Thanks for verifying this run, I especially liked how the third verifier highlighted some things I thought most people would overlook. A few clarifications though :

Quote:
**Death: The comments say the death was intentional, and it does look like it, but did it really need to be done? Eh..

I could have killed all the teddies, but it would have wasted so much time. If you try to kill only a few of them, you end up having to kill them all, since the delay between the moment you kill a teddy and the moment another one gets parachuted is pretty short. Also, as I mentioned in the Conker's BFD thread in Older Consoles, you can reach the door without killing any teddies and without getting hit by a single bullet, but it's very unlikely to happen in a single-segment. I tested a few strategies, but there doesn't seem to be any way to manipulate the teddies' firing range, so it's all about randomness

Quote:
Not sure why he stood in poo mountain in the crevice so long.

Normally, the dung beetle flies in front of that crevice right when I'm about to make that jump. If that happens, Conker gets squashed, so I just waited till he flew past it

Quote from RJWaters2:
The only $100 that is skippable is the one right after the Spooky chapter behind the waterfall.  It can be jumped.
No, you can skip any of them, except the ones you get as part of the scenario (getting the hive back to Mrs. Bee, or the 10$ at the end of the Bats Tower chapter). You only need to give $2110 to Mr. Barrel ($2210 being the maximum of money you can have at this point in the game)



Mike : In my opinion, an any% category is pointless. As TQM said, the only part you'd skip would be "Sunny Days", obviously, and it would shave roughly a minute and a half off a 100% run. On the other hand, if someone comes up with a good any% run and it gets rejected because the runner didn't know about the 100% requirement... it would be pretty lame. Besides, if someone finds a way to skip a few wads of cash (it won't happen, but hey, we never know), you would have to restitute the any% category
destroy them with lazers
Well done on the run really enjoyed it. I remember getting through it in about 2 hours as a kid.
Edit history:
camicio: 2008-12-06 05:02:21 pm
Did you check if the VERYEASY and EASY codes were used? According to http://www.gamegenie.com/cheats/n64/ConkersBadFurDay.html :

Easy game controls and difficulty:
Enter EASY as a code.


Very easy game controls and difficulty:
Enter VERYEASY as a code.


The EASY and VERYEASY codes have the following effects. The enemies' accuracy
will be reduced. For example, Teddiz bullets will not hit you that easily. The
codes slow down some enemies, including Bosses. For example, the Teddiz robot
in the It's War chapter will pull out his weapon and charge them up on
VERYEASY, giving you a good ten seconds to shoot the guns. The codes make you
somewhat invulnerable. For example, at the Escape From Teddiz Base level, the
machine gun fire coming out from the background will not harm you. Finally,
the controlls will be easier.
Complete. Global. Saturation.
The speedrun is shown to be done from the power-on screen. Since you enter the cheats at the fireplace, he isn't cheating. Also, the bullets on the beach (both coming and exiting) will miss you naturally if you run quickly. He also gets blown away by them in less than 2 seconds at one point. There is also no rocket charging with Haybot.
It seems to me that the solution in cases like this, where there's two run types but they're not different enough to justify separate categories, is to allow submissions of either type but for the verifiers to give credit for doing it the harder way when deciding which is better between runs of different types. So let someone submit an Any% run, but say it won't replace the current run if it's only faster because of skipping Sunny Days.

By definition there won't be significant differences between the run types in such cases, so the verifiers should have little difficulty making the judgement.
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
So let someone submit an Any% run, but say it won't replace the current run if it's only faster because of skipping Sunny Days.

What do you mean? An any% run wouldn't obsolete a 100% run anyway
Nah, I'm saying an Any% run should be able to obsolete the 100% run, but only if it actually improves on the 100% run and isn't just faster because it's not 100%.

So let the two run types compete with each other and leave it to the verifiers to judge the relative merits of two runs when faced with one of each type.

I know there's no precedent for this on SDA but really, is there any other sensible way to deal with games like this?
Edit history:
DRybes: 2008-12-14 08:02:20 am
O Zlda?
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
Nah, I'm saying an Any% run should be able to obsolete the 100% run, but only if it actually improves on the 100% run and isn't just faster because it's not 100%.

So let the two run types compete with each other and leave it to the verifiers to judge the relative merits of two runs when faced with one of each type.

I know there's no precedent for this on SDA but really, is there any other sensible way to deal with games like this?


I don't even know if that comes up enough to need a ruling except once the final thing is made.

What you're saying is, there are games where the only way to complete the game is to go and collect 100% of everything (rare seems to like this actually... here we have this game in question, and Jet Force Gemini is the same way). So, any run of the game is by necessity a 100% run. Then, someone comes along and finds a way to skip collecting something but still complete the game. Does it obsolete the established 100%?

I think the answer in any case would be most certainly not. If you're skipping a 'mandatory' then it's no longer 100%, glitches or not.

Having said that, it doesn't even apply to this game since you can skip $100 of your choice. Choosing not to makes it a 100%. A run that skipped some money would not be a 100%. Simple.

Actually, the obsoletion question is a little more interesting. The author comments themselves remark how similar a non-100% run would be, so you'd need to find that significant timesaver related to not collecting some money to make an any%. Otherwise, yes, perhaps the faster run that happens to skip some money could obsolete the 100%, but every other section of the game would have to show improvements too. A 100% only ever gets obsoleted if A) the two categories are similar enough to compare this next point, which is B) the any% demonstrates clearly that it would have been faster than the current 100% even if the runner had gone through the trouble of getting 100% of things. Presumably... an identical run to the current one that skipped $100, would be rejected if it was the same time. But if it were faster... if and only if it was a minute or more faster _in other areas_ in addition to whatever time was saved by the skip, could obsoletion even be considered.
Yeah DRybes, I'm basically proposing what you put in the italics, although I think requiring a whole minute's improvement beyond that saved by doing a different run type is a bit much - it may well not be possible to improve some good runs, or runs of short games, by that much. I think it's best to leave the requirement as a 'significant and clear' improvement beyond the time saved by not getting 100%, and leave the decision as to what those words mean in practice to the verifiers.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
The thing is, money isn't really something you collect in this game. It's just something that helps progress the game because certain situations require you to have a certain amount of money. Regardless if you collect all the money in the game, you end up with the same amount at the end anyway (something like 1,000,000). It's subtle in this game but let's look at a more obvious example. What if you need to kill 3 enemies to get to the next stage, there are 5 enemies, but by only killing the minimum 3 you can save 5 minutes. Killing enemies isn't something you collect in the game so it's doubtful you'd make 100% run for it. I think we're more used to seeing money as something that's collected in games, but in CBFD I don't really think it is.

I wouldn't care to make a distinct category for this game.
jamesters - so what are you arguing in favour of? I think it's already been agreed that a distinct category is a bad idea, simply because it would be almost identical. The choice is between flatly requiring collection of all the money, or not requiring it but giving proportionate credit for it, if it's acheived, when deciding which is better between a run that does and a run that doesn't.

As an aside, 'collecting' kills is not entirely abnormal and is done in some 100% runs (e.g. Quake, I believe.)