1-Up!
Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/CastlevaniaPoR.html
Any% SS run.
Verifier Responses
There was more discussion behind the scenes, I've tried to summarize it as best I can. As you can see, some verifiers were on the fence.
Decision: Accept
Reason: Despite its shortcomings, this run is still impressive.
Congratulations to 'Szsk!'
Any% SS run.
Verifier Responses
Quote:
Audio/Video is great. Brauner sounds way cooler in English though. I'm now convinced Charlotte says "Jonah-san!"
No Cheating detected.
I went into this hoping that the runner would have used all of the improvements we suggested with his first submission, but it seems the only ones he took into consideration were the route-based tips. It's still a good thing though, I think this one is nearly 10 minutes faster than the old one. I like that he went ahead and bought the Holy Claymore, but barely used it at all.
I don't know the route as well as others, but it didn't seem like he went out of his way for anything this time. He did buy a few unscripted items, but I think they actually saved time for him, especially the Shuriken. He still didn't use the potion glitch, but that didn't seem to present any problems this time.
Gameplay-wise, I find this more than acceptable. The runner fails to utilize the best form of movement, which you can do in a lot of places, but I don't really care. I think that can be saved for someone else if they want to improve the run. The few attack issues could just come down to the runner not knowing them or just being bad at them. When he got the sanctuary spell, it was pretty obvious he wasn't very good at doing the slide-switching. I do agree that he should have used Martial Arts (or the weapon special) in a few more places, but I'm pretty sure he just didn't think of those uses. On the whole though, this is a really solid run that took a lot of practice and probably won't be beaten (unless the runner learns to slide-switch).
Accept.
No Cheating detected.
I went into this hoping that the runner would have used all of the improvements we suggested with his first submission, but it seems the only ones he took into consideration were the route-based tips. It's still a good thing though, I think this one is nearly 10 minutes faster than the old one. I like that he went ahead and bought the Holy Claymore, but barely used it at all.
I don't know the route as well as others, but it didn't seem like he went out of his way for anything this time. He did buy a few unscripted items, but I think they actually saved time for him, especially the Shuriken. He still didn't use the potion glitch, but that didn't seem to present any problems this time.
Gameplay-wise, I find this more than acceptable. The runner fails to utilize the best form of movement, which you can do in a lot of places, but I don't really care. I think that can be saved for someone else if they want to improve the run. The few attack issues could just come down to the runner not knowing them or just being bad at them. When he got the sanctuary spell, it was pretty obvious he wasn't very good at doing the slide-switching. I do agree that he should have used Martial Arts (or the weapon special) in a few more places, but I'm pretty sure he just didn't think of those uses. On the whole though, this is a really solid run that took a lot of practice and probably won't be beaten (unless the runner learns to slide-switch).
Accept.
Quote:
Short story is this run is miles better than the previous submission just because it's using the proper version of the game and most of the known techniques. 6 minutes is pretty big. But there are still some bad things in this run that just ruin it for me. Long story...
-Entrance-
Still doesn't damage boost off the 3rd zombie. It's a marginal loss, but still a loss. Screwing up breaking that first pillar should've caused a reset. And you can't give a Jumpman excuse for missing this early on because this isn't a 2 1/2 hour long run. Kinda fumbles on the second pillar too in that he should've BDC'd or switched after the last hit. On the first set of skeletons, he could've jumped past the second skeleton without getting hit. He had enough invincibility to get by the second bone. Screwed up the axe armor room. He gets it right on the way back though. Screws up the first partner jump. I can probably reject the run right there, actually, but I'll carry on. I would actually get Raging Fire and use it a couple times early on, like maybe against those archers, but PoS doesn't have it on the route, so whatever. Still, sliding under it might've been a bit better than jumping over.
-Great Stairway-
I don't really have anything to say here. He's addressed all the problems from last time. I guess I'll fill this bullet point up with my disappointment that the runner still is not using Infinite Potions. You are wasting money that could be put toward better things like MP refills. All I'm letting him know if he doesn't already, the reason he gave after the last run for not using it was STUPID. It takes too much time, he says, even though it's on the pause screen so time isn't actually passing, and the actions required to do it are no different than those required for partner jump glitches. Just push right and touch the touch screen one more time. How hard is that to do?
-Sandy Grave-
He still is not attempting to jump over the sand worm. Half of me doesn't blame him cause I always screw it up. He equips Kaiser Knuckles at 5:43. I'd wager that time could be 10 seconds less. The Astarte fight was better.
-City of Haze-
I don't know how I feel about getting Dodge Roll. He barely uses it at all. Interesting how he doesn't do all the shopping at once. Might not be worth it though. I said this last time, but it's a bit quicker to just scroll through the text at the beginning of CoH instead of skipping it. But I'm not sure if cutscenes like that are timed or not. Divekicking over that Andras was a very nice move. Nice divekick off the imp too.
-Nation of Fools-
He could have had his partner out when entering the portrait to do partner jump right away. I said this last time too. He slid under a Spear Guard. Why not kill him instead?
-Tower of Death-
Last time I said Holy Claymore was better than shuriken when fighting Stella. I'm kinda second guessing myself now. It depends on what kind of damage Holy Claymore does with his setup and STR Up, and if Stella flies low enough so she can be BDC'd.
-Forest of Doom-
Same as before. The Dagon fight is faster than the other run despite being three levels weaker, but I dunno, something feels off.
-Getting Sanctuary and Fighting Death-
Perhaps I'm mixing things up with Harmony of Despair, but can't you Dodge Roll through the falling spiked pillars? Or even using Holy Claymore special? His BDCing is incorrect. Yes you can cancel an attack with a backdash. But if you attack right after that, you can't backdash again. That's why you crouch to cancel the backdash, it gets rid of the cooldown. He loses so much time on Death because of this. He also loses time from not doing anything when Death turns white the first time. He just hits scythes until a second before Death switches back. This is crippling and worth rejection right there. All of this would be moot with the octuple jump, but that's too difficult a trick to do in a single segment.
-The Top Floor-
Falling down halfway through really stinks. Having to cast Sanctuary two extra times hurts too.
-Dark Academy-
The only time he uses Dodge Roll is on the Final Guard. I honestly don't think Dodge Roll is worth getting if this is the only use aside from potentially the pillars in Sandy Grave. Just take damage and run through, I say. Or hell, try the Holy Claymore special attack, which he uses in Forgotten City to get through boulders. Creature fight was okay, but I'm wondering if Dart BDS with Dark Rift is any better.
-Forgotten City-
Not much to say except don't bother trying to avoid the Mummy's attacks. just keep BDSing and heal when necessary.
-Burnt Paradise-
Same here. Not much to say. Medusa fight was pretty nice. Another irk I have, though, is if he wants to get a quick hit in as his MP runs out, Holy Claymore isn't the best thing to use. Kaisers might be better in that case.
-13th Street-
Maybe he should've walked forward before casting STR Up so the Werewolf was already there?
-Final Bosses-
Brauner went alright, but I'm still sorta wondering if Shuriken is the best way to go. After beating Brauner, when skipping the cutscene it looked a lot quicker than usual. Usually I would be able to see Charlotte's face during the fadeout. Hmm. Death/Drac was okay too. Shuriken probably is the right way to go there. True Dracula, though, I'm fairly confident Holy Claymore BDC would be better.
Quality of course is gdlk. Who did he have to kill to get one of those things anyway? I want one so bad.
Look, there's certainly a lot of good stuff here. 42:35 is quite an accomplishment. But notice how I said he uses most of the known techniques? He should be using ALL of them. No proper BDC is disheartening. No Infinite Potions, I just don't understand. That Death fight was worse than any fiasco. And then there's the movement issue, which is minor to me actually. It's the other stuff that is undoing a lot of the good for me. I'm not ready to accept yet. These issues need to be cleared up, and some testing needs to be done in other spots too.
-Entrance-
Still doesn't damage boost off the 3rd zombie. It's a marginal loss, but still a loss. Screwing up breaking that first pillar should've caused a reset. And you can't give a Jumpman excuse for missing this early on because this isn't a 2 1/2 hour long run. Kinda fumbles on the second pillar too in that he should've BDC'd or switched after the last hit. On the first set of skeletons, he could've jumped past the second skeleton without getting hit. He had enough invincibility to get by the second bone. Screwed up the axe armor room. He gets it right on the way back though. Screws up the first partner jump. I can probably reject the run right there, actually, but I'll carry on. I would actually get Raging Fire and use it a couple times early on, like maybe against those archers, but PoS doesn't have it on the route, so whatever. Still, sliding under it might've been a bit better than jumping over.
-Great Stairway-
I don't really have anything to say here. He's addressed all the problems from last time. I guess I'll fill this bullet point up with my disappointment that the runner still is not using Infinite Potions. You are wasting money that could be put toward better things like MP refills. All I'm letting him know if he doesn't already, the reason he gave after the last run for not using it was STUPID. It takes too much time, he says, even though it's on the pause screen so time isn't actually passing, and the actions required to do it are no different than those required for partner jump glitches. Just push right and touch the touch screen one more time. How hard is that to do?
-Sandy Grave-
He still is not attempting to jump over the sand worm. Half of me doesn't blame him cause I always screw it up. He equips Kaiser Knuckles at 5:43. I'd wager that time could be 10 seconds less. The Astarte fight was better.
-City of Haze-
I don't know how I feel about getting Dodge Roll. He barely uses it at all. Interesting how he doesn't do all the shopping at once. Might not be worth it though. I said this last time, but it's a bit quicker to just scroll through the text at the beginning of CoH instead of skipping it. But I'm not sure if cutscenes like that are timed or not. Divekicking over that Andras was a very nice move. Nice divekick off the imp too.
-Nation of Fools-
He could have had his partner out when entering the portrait to do partner jump right away. I said this last time too. He slid under a Spear Guard. Why not kill him instead?
-Tower of Death-
Last time I said Holy Claymore was better than shuriken when fighting Stella. I'm kinda second guessing myself now. It depends on what kind of damage Holy Claymore does with his setup and STR Up, and if Stella flies low enough so she can be BDC'd.
-Forest of Doom-
Same as before. The Dagon fight is faster than the other run despite being three levels weaker, but I dunno, something feels off.
-Getting Sanctuary and Fighting Death-
Perhaps I'm mixing things up with Harmony of Despair, but can't you Dodge Roll through the falling spiked pillars? Or even using Holy Claymore special? His BDCing is incorrect. Yes you can cancel an attack with a backdash. But if you attack right after that, you can't backdash again. That's why you crouch to cancel the backdash, it gets rid of the cooldown. He loses so much time on Death because of this. He also loses time from not doing anything when Death turns white the first time. He just hits scythes until a second before Death switches back. This is crippling and worth rejection right there. All of this would be moot with the octuple jump, but that's too difficult a trick to do in a single segment.
-The Top Floor-
Falling down halfway through really stinks. Having to cast Sanctuary two extra times hurts too.
-Dark Academy-
The only time he uses Dodge Roll is on the Final Guard. I honestly don't think Dodge Roll is worth getting if this is the only use aside from potentially the pillars in Sandy Grave. Just take damage and run through, I say. Or hell, try the Holy Claymore special attack, which he uses in Forgotten City to get through boulders. Creature fight was okay, but I'm wondering if Dart BDS with Dark Rift is any better.
-Forgotten City-
Not much to say except don't bother trying to avoid the Mummy's attacks. just keep BDSing and heal when necessary.
-Burnt Paradise-
Same here. Not much to say. Medusa fight was pretty nice. Another irk I have, though, is if he wants to get a quick hit in as his MP runs out, Holy Claymore isn't the best thing to use. Kaisers might be better in that case.
-13th Street-
Maybe he should've walked forward before casting STR Up so the Werewolf was already there?
-Final Bosses-
Brauner went alright, but I'm still sorta wondering if Shuriken is the best way to go. After beating Brauner, when skipping the cutscene it looked a lot quicker than usual. Usually I would be able to see Charlotte's face during the fadeout. Hmm. Death/Drac was okay too. Shuriken probably is the right way to go there. True Dracula, though, I'm fairly confident Holy Claymore BDC would be better.
Quality of course is gdlk. Who did he have to kill to get one of those things anyway? I want one so bad.
Look, there's certainly a lot of good stuff here. 42:35 is quite an accomplishment. But notice how I said he uses most of the known techniques? He should be using ALL of them. No proper BDC is disheartening. No Infinite Potions, I just don't understand. That Death fight was worse than any fiasco. And then there's the movement issue, which is minor to me actually. It's the other stuff that is undoing a lot of the good for me. I'm not ready to accept yet. These issues need to be cleared up, and some testing needs to be done in other spots too.
Quote:
No visible cheating even if he does lie to the quest system for extra cash :3c
Holy shit that audiovisual quality what did I apparently miss that allowed this to be possible? Whatever it is, it's fantastic and I want one.
Not too much to say that hasn't been said already. I definitely don't feel like I know PoR as well as some of the other verifiers here so I won't mind if the weight falls more on their votes... but I think the run was fine enough for SDA standards.
I do feel like there's still room for improvement - the fact that he's just normally walking forward a lot of the time in a Castlevania game where this hasn't been the fastest form of movement in years bothers me! ...but with that said, to someone who's a little less familiar with PoR... as an example, I wouldn't have considered the Death fight rejection-worthy. Bad, yes, but not end-of-the-run material.
I vote accept; because it's still highly entertaining and impressive to those of us a little less familiar with PoR, and outside of Death there's not a whole lot of highly visible screwups - even if we're aware there's improvements that could be made, it feels more like it's stuff that wasn't attempted that could be used to improve, rather than a flaw in execution in this case.
Holy shit that audiovisual quality what did I apparently miss that allowed this to be possible? Whatever it is, it's fantastic and I want one.
Not too much to say that hasn't been said already. I definitely don't feel like I know PoR as well as some of the other verifiers here so I won't mind if the weight falls more on their votes... but I think the run was fine enough for SDA standards.
I do feel like there's still room for improvement - the fact that he's just normally walking forward a lot of the time in a Castlevania game where this hasn't been the fastest form of movement in years bothers me! ...but with that said, to someone who's a little less familiar with PoR... as an example, I wouldn't have considered the Death fight rejection-worthy. Bad, yes, but not end-of-the-run material.
I vote accept; because it's still highly entertaining and impressive to those of us a little less familiar with PoR, and outside of Death there's not a whole lot of highly visible screwups - even if we're aware there's improvements that could be made, it feels more like it's stuff that wasn't attempted that could be used to improve, rather than a flaw in execution in this case.
Quote:
Castlevania: CHARLOTTE JONATHAN
No cheating, as far as I could tell.
Hrm. I have really, really mixed feelings about this run. The video is great; I kinda like thumbs in the view, to get a look at what the runner is doing physically, but there's no denying that the picture on this is better than a camera capture. The actual gameplay is where I have some qualms.
On the one hand, the route planning is very nice, if a little conservative (except the beginning; those are some great damage boosts). My biggest concern is that the runner doesn't use the fastest means of moving around: in the beginning, there's a lot of just jogging along instead of slide kicking (and we know the runner can do it, since it's used in the Sanctuary spell hole). Once the runner has the leap stone, there's some triangle jumping (I'm a big fan of using the character switch to cancel the landing lag), but I'm not sure that the big, switch-canceled jumps are actually faster than just doing short triangle jumps which don't set off the lag. What's more, there are a number of places with low ceilings where the runner doesn't do the big jumps, but had enough room for the smaller ones. There are also several places where the runner could have used Dodge Roll's invincibility frames to save time (e.g. the spike log in the Forgotten City), rather than waiting for an obstacle to move or taking a hit and moving on.
The Death fight was terrible. Rather than doing a sort of Attack-Backdash-Attack-Wait, he should have been backdash canceling every swing. It works in Harmony of Despair, it works in Dawn of Sorrow, and (I just tested it) it works in Portrait of Ruin. If I, with the tech skill of an overripe cantaloupe, can do it, there's no excuse for the half second lag on each of the attack cycles.
I guess that's what's so heartbreaking about this run. The runner has some spots with just marvelous execution - the way he or she navigates the tombstones in the Forest of Doom is stunning, and the platforming in Nation of Fools and Burnt Paradise (Medusa Heads aside) is fantastic. I know the skill is there, so why didn't it get used in 60% of the run? I can understand that some rooms demand moving at a certain speed to manipulate enemy/obstacle movement, and it's a single segment run, so mistakes are inevitable, but there are a lot of places where just nothing is happening. Jonathan Morris jogs on.
I don't know. The route is good, most of the boss fights are good, and there are some real high points. But, augh. There are some serious problems.
.
.
.
Looking back, there are a lot of really spectacular parts of this run, and I think they got obscured for me a bit because the movement issue is front and center the entire time.
Accept.
No cheating, as far as I could tell.
Hrm. I have really, really mixed feelings about this run. The video is great; I kinda like thumbs in the view, to get a look at what the runner is doing physically, but there's no denying that the picture on this is better than a camera capture. The actual gameplay is where I have some qualms.
On the one hand, the route planning is very nice, if a little conservative (except the beginning; those are some great damage boosts). My biggest concern is that the runner doesn't use the fastest means of moving around: in the beginning, there's a lot of just jogging along instead of slide kicking (and we know the runner can do it, since it's used in the Sanctuary spell hole). Once the runner has the leap stone, there's some triangle jumping (I'm a big fan of using the character switch to cancel the landing lag), but I'm not sure that the big, switch-canceled jumps are actually faster than just doing short triangle jumps which don't set off the lag. What's more, there are a number of places with low ceilings where the runner doesn't do the big jumps, but had enough room for the smaller ones. There are also several places where the runner could have used Dodge Roll's invincibility frames to save time (e.g. the spike log in the Forgotten City), rather than waiting for an obstacle to move or taking a hit and moving on.
The Death fight was terrible. Rather than doing a sort of Attack-Backdash-Attack-Wait, he should have been backdash canceling every swing. It works in Harmony of Despair, it works in Dawn of Sorrow, and (I just tested it) it works in Portrait of Ruin. If I, with the tech skill of an overripe cantaloupe, can do it, there's no excuse for the half second lag on each of the attack cycles.
I guess that's what's so heartbreaking about this run. The runner has some spots with just marvelous execution - the way he or she navigates the tombstones in the Forest of Doom is stunning, and the platforming in Nation of Fools and Burnt Paradise (Medusa Heads aside) is fantastic. I know the skill is there, so why didn't it get used in 60% of the run? I can understand that some rooms demand moving at a certain speed to manipulate enemy/obstacle movement, and it's a single segment run, so mistakes are inevitable, but there are a lot of places where just nothing is happening. Jonathan Morris jogs on.
I don't know. The route is good, most of the boss fights are good, and there are some real high points. But, augh. There are some serious problems.
.
.
.
Looking back, there are a lot of really spectacular parts of this run, and I think they got obscured for me a bit because the movement issue is front and center the entire time.
Accept.
Quote:
The death fight is just... it's so bad. Even with the possibly suboptimal movement and lack of using the invincibility roll, it would be acceptable otherwise. But that Death fight stands out as glaringly bad. It's not even a matter of bad luck on the scythe-bounce attack or accidentally missing a couple hits. It's just poorly executed. I still don't understand why he waits around while Death is white. He's weaker to physical attacks when he's white, isn't he? Also, he used so little magic on Death, he could have had Charlotte toss some Light Spirits to speed things up a bit, or possibly used the Holy Claymore's super attack to invincibility through the scythe bouncing toward him.
So I can't accept it. It's so close though. Just clean up the Death fight with proper BDC and try to throw in more dodge-rolling, like through the Egypt spike-logs.
.
.
.
I guess I'll vote accept. There's enough good to outweigh the bad, but I would really like to see the runner do an improvement in the meantime. It could get even better.
So I can't accept it. It's so close though. Just clean up the Death fight with proper BDC and try to throw in more dodge-rolling, like through the Egypt spike-logs.
.
.
.
I guess I'll vote accept. There's enough good to outweigh the bad, but I would really like to see the runner do an improvement in the meantime. It could get even better.
There was more discussion behind the scenes, I've tried to summarize it as best I can. As you can see, some verifiers were on the fence.
Decision: Accept
Reason: Despite its shortcomings, this run is still impressive.
Congratulations to 'Szsk!'
Thread title: