Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal

2008-12-11 06:46:27 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/BaldursGate2TOB.html

Eli 'Smilge' Chase's run

Quote:

Hi
I'm here to speak about the new ToB run. First of all I want to say that this game is pretty hard to verify, because of the variability of so many things. What can ensure you that Illasera can be killed with only 3 skull spells, except trying it? And even in this case, the dices have to be with you!
I already know that many little softwares allow you to change your character at every save//load... And these softwares are pretty easy to find. So a runner can easily increase by 1 his max spells limit or so...
So I checked for any cheat I could think of and I couldn't see anything to this time.
Maybe a full rerun of someone could be better than that but I really think it's ok

So now what about the quality ?
I would start by the video//audio quality. During the game, the camera will move without any control (like at 24:04 when the player clicks on the strange green thing...). But it's due to the game so... The video and audio are pretty nicely recorded, even if it's not "ingame" quality.

For the quality of the run. Well, I started to compare the two runs in every action, but they are so different that I forgot this idea after the giants... Pretty all fights are really faster due to a new, better, and faster strat. The intelligence decrease trick is so crazy. I hated it when my paladin died all fights long in few areas of the game. But here the runner makes a really incredible strength! So more than half of the fights are made with morph, timestop, and 3 good rolls... I won't say that it's the most interesting strat in this game but if
it works... The other half of the fights are really nicely played. I particularly love Gromnir who has been one spell(OS?) killed and the dragon killed with 6 dragon breaths!
If we compare all the fights strats with damurdoc's ones, I think that we can say it's a really really good improvement.
But most of the winning time was due to skipping tricks. It includes :
- the first fight "skip"(she won't speak if she's dead!)
- the giant heart skip (something like 12 minutes are won during the 7 first minutes :O),
- pretty everything between dwarves levelling and Sendai herself (her or him? I always have a doubt about it ^^) and particularly the "unlock it and run" trick.

What about improvement? I'm pretty sure that it's possible to win many seconds with better travelling times or so... But it won't be crazy. I don't even want to think about a better route, because this one is already crazy! Every key, every object is chosen and selected...
So the only possibility for improvements is during fights... and I said before that they are, for the most, a big instant kill.
I suggest to show this run to damurdoc, and everyone skilled enough to beat this run. They would find a way. In fact, I'm not sure that the levelling or the sendei's fights were perfect. And I think a competition can be born between all of them. So just show this run and look at what happens!

I suggest to every runner to try a single segment ToB, which should be possible with all new tricks... and what about a "no sleep" run? With many wishes or maybe another character... It may be possible, but seems, for sure, hard at that speed. But I'm sure that, even at my playing level, a good character can handle all the game alone... So why not a "class speedrun" or a "class//no sleep speedrun" or whatever people are ready to try.
And for sure I wait for a SoA ToB or a full BG serie run!!!

Good luck and have fun

Quote:

Verifier: uh tob
Verifier: this run is incredible, just like the soa run
Verifier: i bet it's the same dude
Verifier: anyway he's an elf sorcerer which makes sense bc in this game you actually need to fight some people lol
Verifier: anyway just the planning and the amount of precision in his fights and everything is just so well-done

Quote:

A thing of beauty.

Video's fine, no cheating evident, blah blah blah. Get it up on the site already. Every moment this isn't on SDA is a crime against humanity.

Decision: Accept

Reason: It's an improvement and everyone loves it.

Thread title:

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/BaldursGate2TOB.html

Eli 'Smilge' Chase's run

[quote]Hi
I'm here to speak about the new ToB run. First of all I want to say that this game is pretty hard to verify, because of the variability of so many things. What can ensure you that Illasera can be killed with only 3 skull spells, except trying it? And even in this case, the dices have to be with you!
I already know that many little softwares allow you to change your character at every save//load... And these softwares are pretty easy to find. So a runner can easily increase by 1 his max spells limit or so...
So I checked for any cheat I could think of and I couldn't see anything to this time.
Maybe a full rerun of someone could be better than that but I really think it's ok

So now what about the quality ?
I would start by the video//audio quality. During the game, the camera will move without any control (like at 24:04 when the player clicks on the strange green thing...). But it's due to the game so... The video and audio are pretty nicely recorded, even if it's not "ingame" quality.

For the quality of the run. Well, I started to compare the two runs in every action, but they are so different that I forgot this idea after the giants... Pretty all fights are really faster due to a new, better, and faster strat. The intelligence decrease trick is so crazy. I hated it when my paladin died all fights long in few areas of the game. But here the runner makes a really incredible strength! So more than half of the fights are made with morph, timestop, and 3 good rolls... I won't say that it's the most interesting strat in this game but if
it works... The other half of the fights are really nicely played. I particularly love Gromnir who has been one spell(OS?) killed and the dragon killed with 6 dragon breaths!
If we compare all the fights strats with damurdoc's ones, I think that we can say it's a really really good improvement.
But most of the winning time was due to skipping tricks. It includes :
- the first fight "skip"(she won't speak if she's dead!)
- the giant heart skip (something like 12 minutes are won during the 7 first minutes :O),
- pretty everything between dwarves levelling and Sendai herself (her or him? I always have a doubt about it ^^) and particularly the "unlock it and run" trick.

What about improvement? I'm pretty sure that it's possible to win many seconds with better travelling times or so... But it won't be crazy. I don't even want to think about a better route, because this one is already crazy! Every key, every object is chosen and selected...
So the only possibility for improvements is during fights... and I said before that they are, for the most, a big instant kill.
I suggest to show this run to damurdoc, and everyone skilled enough to beat this run. They would find a way. In fact, I'm not sure that the levelling or the sendei's fights were perfect. And I think a competition can be born between all of them. So just show this run and look at what happens!

I suggest to every runner to try a single segment ToB, which should be possible with all new tricks... and what about a "no sleep" run? With many wishes or maybe another character... It may be possible, but seems, for sure, hard at that speed. But I'm sure that, even at my playing level, a good character can handle all the game alone... So why not a "class speedrun" or a "class//no sleep speedrun" or whatever people are ready to try.
And for sure I wait for a SoA ToB or a full BG serie run!!!

Good luck and have fun[/quote]

[quote]Verifier: uh tob 
Verifier: this run is incredible, just like the soa run 
Verifier: i bet it's the same dude 
Verifier: anyway he's an elf sorcerer which makes sense bc in this game you actually need to fight some people lol 
Verifier: anyway just the planning and the amount of precision in his fights and everything is just so well-done [/quote]

[quote]A thing of beauty.

Video's fine, no cheating evident, blah blah blah.  Get it up on the site already. Every moment this isn't on SDA is a crime against humanity.[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: It's an improvement and everyone loves it.

Enhasa

2008-12-11 11:25:36 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I'm really glad people like the first verifier exist. Cheesy

Smilge

2008-12-12 06:01:41 pm

I really appreciate the great comments, especially the one that went into such detail. My only point of contention is

Quote:

In fact, I'm not sure that the levelling or the sendei's fights were perfect.

I'd like to see someone beat Sendai quicker than 2:36. It took DAMURDOC over 8 minutes!

Thanks everyone and I look forward to my future submissions.

DAMURDOC

2008-12-13 12:46:21 pm

The BaldurManiac

Quote from Smilge:

I really appreciate the great comments, especially the one that went into such detail. My only point of contention is

Quote:

In fact, I'm not sure that the levelling or the sendei's fights were perfect.

I'd like to see someone beat Sendai quicker than 2:36. It took DAMURDOC over 8 minutes!

Thanks everyone and I look forward to my future submissions.

tycho102

2008-12-17 05:01:40 pm

Some people think they can outsmart me.

Hey, here was my review. I guess I was too late to make the cutoff.

Quote:

I have not played Baldur`s Gate 1: Tales of the Sword Coast. However, I did fully play though BG1, BG2, and BG2: Throne of Bhaal. And some other Infinity and Aurora engine stuff.

Right up front, I'm going to register a complaint about the video quailty. It's really bad.
The video has also been significantly altered, including but not limited to the removal of loading screens.

--------------

I'd say the video starts on frame 0.

elf sorcerer, chaotic good
14str, 17dex, 15con, 9int, 13wis, 9cha (as near as I can tell)
1dart, 1sling, 1quarterstaff
chromatic orb, infravision, identify, chill touch, charm person, detect invis, invis, knock,
mirror image, blur, protection from fire, skull trap, haste, hold person,
minor globe invulnerable, polymorph, stoneskin, greater malfeance,
lower resistance, cloudkill, breach, animate dead, flesh to stone,
disintegrate, protection from magical weapons, true sight, mordankeins sword,
limited wish, indendary cloud

Throws in 3 skull traps and rests before the cutscene. Static ambushes are the way to go whenever possible.

The battle with bhodi is basically just a waiting game for all the waves to spawn. I guess Sarevok is extra xp as well.
drops in a mordankins at 3:00. make that three. oh what the fuck. finally stops at five. I'll have to check the spell limit. another cloudkill at 3:47, since the swords are immune. I'm not entirely sure all those area of effect spells are cloudkill. the only other thing it could be is incendiary cloud. At this point in the game, I can't see how things could go any faster as a mage.

Draws off the guards before dropping invisibility and chatting mellisan. Picks up the key from the temple, waits for the secret passage to appear, and knocks it. Heads through the dungeon, some knocks, invis. Up to gromnir. There's some severe ownzorification there, but I can't entirely tell what it is. I'm going to guess disintegrate. That's got to have some crazy probability.

Flys back to base. Rest, siege camp. Looks like limited wish, and shapechange. Goes invis. Looks like limited wish and time stop.
Flips over to mind flayer. What the fuck? Oh, that's clever. Dropping him to 0 intelligence takes just a few hits because he's 8 or 9. And with the time stop, that was smooth.

Amkethalon. Grabs map entries. Heads to sendai.

Finally levels at 10:21, taking project image and spell trigger. Level 17.
Pulls out mordenkain's at 10:30, and hastes it. Invis at 10:43, up the path. Stops to wait for the sword to work on the drow guy, and pulls a spell trigger of three skull traps. Mirrors image at 11:00. Heads into the cave. Still invis and mirrored, stoneskins at entrance. Past the miconoids and hulk guards.

Ah, triggers the skull traps at 11:35 on thelyn. That is some severe ownage right there. I'm not sure about the range on that.
Grabs the necklace and key from the pile, throws on the necklace (cheeta speed), then hauls. Casts invis at the exit.

Pulls up to the gate at 12:40, throws out mordankain's and a project image. Incendiary cloud on gnome group. More swords.
Gets ready with a skull trap, oh. Dispels the projected image. More clouds. Invis and through.
Levels at 14:30, dagger 1, improved alacrity, dragon's breath, Pierce shield, time stop, shape change. Level 19 and rests at the bottom of the bridge.

Dragons breath just inside the entrance results in odmaron casting failure, I assume the time stop. Dispels and another dragon breath.
Grabs the ward. I'm not sure what's up with that graphic glitch and flaming body at 14:50.

Invis, walks to door, then shape changes to illithid, time stops. That's the killer combo for this run. That combo right there makes the whole run, over and out. Killing diatha without having to do the side rooms has to save 10 minutes. Beholder. That is just awesome. Casts another shape change, but doesn't change. Time stop, stoneskin. Passes first illithid guard, then sets up a spell trigger. Three breach. Goes invis. Exits just as the time stop wears off.

Drow priestess at 17:16. Project image, time stop. Shapechange illithid, goes after soydai 1. Changes back. Incendiary cloud and hides. Limited wish, contingency. hit-myself, skull trap 3. improved haste, time stop. Shape change, flayer. Whacks a couple sendai.
Fuck. Is that true sight? Yep. Mirror image at 19:04, time stop, shapes to illithid and attacks the rest at 19:20.
Changes slayer at 19:33. is he still hasted? This is like living with Helen Keller.
Knocks out the last wave with the skull traps, uses the trigger to breech sendai, then changes to slayer. Finally over at 19:54. That one is going to take some work.
I can't see anywhere that battle could be significantly sped up. The runner avoids all the time stops and minion waves. I guess if you do the mind flayer thing and butcher that hooker where she stands, there's a trigger that doesn't get set and the game is broken. So you absolutely have to go the long way (statue to statue) in order for the right flags to get set and continue on with the game. Which just goes to show that how unconventional that strategy is on a wide scale.

Frames 37094 and 37095. I don't know what to say here, other than discontinuous.

invis at 20:45. manages to rest at 20:49, stoneskin, shapechange up the steps. Time stop. Changes to illithid and drops Draconia. Awesome. Changes back, grabs the head, spell trigger. skull trap 3. Mirror image. Drop the trigger at 21:48 on the whole group. There's some ownage there. Picks up flask, heads to pool, invis.

I think that's protection from fire at 22:12. Grabs some water, heads back up. Down the right pool. I guess that's incendiary fire at 22:56, and that's pretty much the mirror image, too. I can't really see the character effects icons. Knocks on the door for the prisoner, and out. Invis at 23:17, heads to the center pool. Winds through to the top. Drops the mage, grabs scroll. invis and out.

Past the dragon, casts shapechange. I think that's project image at 24:47. Improved alacrity, dragons breath. x2. Time stop and more dragon breath. x3. Drops abkazarith'kar'th'zar'li. whatever.

fake talks elminster. back to balthzar at 27:32. stoneskin and rest. protection from magical weapons. pulls in all the guards and dragons breath. grabs key, through gate. Uses necklace at 28:06, improved haste. protection from magic weapons.
Finally gets time stop at 28:30. Slayer change. Wipes out balthazar. cutscene, level up.
takes summon planetar for innate, contingency at 29:50. casts trigger, skull trap 3x. rests. contingency, see enemy-nearest, pierce shield 3x.
swaps out the cheeta necklace at 30:22. That may be the original power necklace to reduce casting. contingency fires on ravager, 3x pierce shield. casts alacrity, protection from magical weapons, greater malison, triggers skull traps.
another skull trap at ravenger,2,3,4,5,6. Wow. That's the limit.
puts the cheeta necklace back on.
Heads down to cyric. contingency, see enemy-myself, protection from fire, incendiary cloud, x2. RESTS at 31:39.
casts protection from magical weapons. contingency fires, casts dragons breath. and that's pretty much it.
Runner sneaks off a shapechange at 32:02. Uses necklace for haste.
Looks like protection from magic weapons at 32:10. time stop at 32:31, immediately pops over to illithid and does. oh. 2 damage. that's fucking harsh, right there.
invis at 32:48. time stop, mind flayer, and just wipes out everyone. brilliant. I'm really, really coming around to that method.
you can NOT save during combat. you MUST gather your party before venturing forth.
contingency, helpless-myself, project image x3.

That looks like a rest screen at frame 60553. I see no entry in the log, other than a return to natural form, which accompanies a rest.
That looks like a shapechange spell being fired at 33:41.
That looks like loading-screen text in the event log "many items can be built or upgraded by cespenar...."

Looks like fake talk at 33:50. moves mostly out of range, casts project image, and then the contingency fires three more images. Ok, that's lunacy right there. holy shit. that's crazy.
The runner has a planetar fire magic missles to ruin the projected images. Why not true sight?
So, that's about it up through 37:30. The runner wastes a few planetars by not getting them off the satellites, but it doesn't appear to be an issue since there's enough to surround mellisan.

I'd say the last frame is 67692. That's the end of player input (return key to skip through dialogue).

A really great run. I can't see any "cheating". There's a glitches/bugs that are used, such as the "fake talk", but those are well known and completely reproducable. There might be a few places where a 3x skull trap trigger would have sped things up without hindering spell casting.

As for timing:
The routing and mechanics used during the run clearly point to a superior route and methodology. However, I am unable to do anything other than estimate the time for this run. The runner has already edited the video, so I'm just going to do an inclusive addition.

67693 frames / 30fps = 2256.4 seconds = 37 minutes, 37 seconds

Hey, here was my review. I guess I was too late to make the cutoff.

[quote]
I have not played Baldur`s Gate 1: Tales of the Sword Coast. However, I did fully play though BG1, BG2, and BG2: Throne of Bhaal. And some other Infinity and Aurora engine stuff.

Right up front, I'm going to register a complaint about the video quailty. It's really bad. 
The video has also been significantly altered, including but not limited to the removal of loading screens.

--------------

I'd say the video starts on frame 0.

elf sorcerer, chaotic good
14str, 17dex, 15con, 9int, 13wis, 9cha (as near as I can tell)
1dart, 1sling, 1quarterstaff
chromatic orb, infravision, identify, chill touch, charm person, detect invis, invis, knock,
mirror image, blur, protection from fire, skull trap, haste, hold person,
minor globe invulnerable, polymorph, stoneskin, greater malfeance,
lower resistance, cloudkill, breach, animate dead, flesh to stone,
disintegrate, protection from magical weapons, true sight, mordankeins sword,
limited wish, indendary cloud

Throws in 3 skull traps and rests before the cutscene. Static ambushes are the way to go whenever possible.

The battle with bhodi is basically just a waiting game for all the waves to spawn. I guess Sarevok is extra xp as well.
drops in a mordankins at 3:00. make that three. oh what the fuck. finally stops at five. I'll have to check the spell limit. another cloudkill at 3:47, since the swords are immune. I'm not entirely sure all those area of effect spells are cloudkill. the only other thing it could be is incendiary cloud. At this point in the game, I can't see how things could go any faster as a mage.

Draws off the guards before dropping invisibility and chatting mellisan. Picks up the key from the temple, waits for the secret passage to appear, and knocks it. Heads through the dungeon, some knocks, invis. Up to gromnir. There's some severe ownzorification there, but I can't entirely tell what it is. I'm going to guess disintegrate. That's got to have some crazy probability.

Flys back to base. Rest, siege camp. Looks like limited wish, and shapechange. Goes invis. Looks like limited wish and time stop.
Flips over to mind flayer. What the fuck? Oh, that's clever. Dropping him to 0 intelligence takes just a few hits because he's 8 or 9. And with the time stop, that was smooth.

Amkethalon. Grabs map entries. Heads to sendai.

Finally levels at 10:21, taking project image and spell trigger. Level 17.
Pulls out mordenkain's at 10:30, and hastes it. Invis at 10:43, up the path. Stops to wait for the sword to work on the drow guy, and pulls a spell trigger of three skull traps. Mirrors image at 11:00. Heads into the cave. Still invis and mirrored, stoneskins at entrance. Past the miconoids and hulk guards.

Ah, triggers the skull traps at 11:35 on thelyn. That is some severe ownage right there. I'm not sure about the range on that.
Grabs the necklace and key from the pile, throws on the necklace (cheeta speed), then hauls. Casts invis at the exit.

Pulls up to the gate at 12:40, throws out mordankain's and a project image. Incendiary cloud on gnome group. More swords. 
Gets ready with a skull trap, oh. Dispels the projected image. More clouds. Invis and through.
Levels at 14:30, dagger 1, improved alacrity, dragon's breath, Pierce shield, time stop, shape change. Level 19 and rests at the bottom of the bridge.

Dragons breath just inside the entrance results in odmaron casting failure, I assume the time stop. Dispels and another dragon breath.
Grabs the ward. I'm not sure what's up with that graphic glitch and flaming body at 14:50.

Invis, walks to door, then shape changes to illithid, time stops. That's the killer combo for this run. That combo right there makes the whole run, over and out. Killing diatha without having to do the side rooms has to save 10 minutes. Beholder. That is just awesome. Casts another shape change, but doesn't change. Time stop, stoneskin. Passes first illithid guard, then sets up a spell trigger. Three breach. Goes invis. Exits just as the time stop wears off.
 
Drow priestess at 17:16.  Project image, time stop. Shapechange illithid, goes after soydai 1. Changes back. Incendiary cloud and hides. Limited wish, contingency. hit-myself, skull trap 3. improved haste, time stop. Shape change, flayer. Whacks a couple sendai. 
Fuck. Is that true sight? Yep. Mirror image at 19:04, time stop, shapes to illithid and attacks the rest at 19:20.
Changes slayer at 19:33. is he still hasted? This is like living with Helen Keller.
Knocks out the last wave with the skull traps, uses the trigger to breech sendai, then changes to slayer. Finally over at 19:54. That one is going to take some work. 
I can't see anywhere that battle could be significantly sped up. The runner avoids all the time stops and minion waves. I guess if you do the mind flayer thing and butcher that hooker where she stands, there's a trigger that doesn't get set and the game is broken. So you absolutely have to go the long way (statue to statue) in order for the right flags to get set and continue on with the game. Which just goes to show that how unconventional that strategy is on a wide scale.

Frames 37094 and 37095. I don't know what to say here, other than discontinuous.

invis at 20:45. manages to rest at 20:49, stoneskin, shapechange up the steps. Time stop. Changes to illithid and drops Draconia. Awesome. Changes back, grabs the head, spell trigger. skull trap 3. Mirror image. Drop the trigger at 21:48 on the whole group. There's some ownage there. Picks up flask, heads to pool, invis.

I think that's protection from fire at 22:12. Grabs some water, heads back up. Down the right pool. I guess that's incendiary fire at 22:56, and that's pretty much the mirror image, too. I can't really see the character effects icons. Knocks on the door for the prisoner, and out. Invis at 23:17, heads to the center pool. Winds through to the top. Drops the mage, grabs scroll. invis and out.

Past the dragon, casts shapechange. I think that's project image at 24:47. Improved alacrity, dragons breath. x2. Time stop and more dragon breath. x3. Drops abkazarith'kar'th'zar'li. whatever.

fake talks elminster. back to balthzar at 27:32. stoneskin and rest. protection from magical weapons. pulls in all the guards and dragons breath. grabs key, through gate. Uses necklace at 28:06, improved haste. protection from magic weapons. 
Finally gets time stop at 28:30. Slayer change. Wipes out balthazar. cutscene, level up.
takes summon planetar for innate, contingency at 29:50. casts trigger, skull trap 3x. rests. contingency, see enemy-nearest, pierce shield 3x. 
swaps out the cheeta necklace at 30:22. That may be the original power necklace to reduce casting. contingency fires on ravager, 3x pierce shield. casts alacrity, protection from magical weapons, greater malison, triggers skull traps.
another skull trap at ravenger,2,3,4,5,6. Wow. That's the limit.
puts the cheeta necklace back on. 
Heads down to cyric. contingency, see enemy-myself, protection from fire, incendiary cloud, x2. RESTS at 31:39.
casts protection from magical weapons. contingency fires, casts dragons breath. and that's pretty much it. 
Runner sneaks off a shapechange at 32:02. Uses necklace for haste.
Looks like protection from magic weapons at 32:10.  time stop at 32:31, immediately pops over to illithid and does. oh. 2 damage. that's fucking harsh, right there. 
invis at 32:48. time stop, mind flayer, and just wipes out everyone. brilliant. I'm really, really coming around to that method.
you can NOT save during combat. you MUST gather your party before venturing forth.
contingency, helpless-myself, project image x3.

That looks like a rest screen at frame 60553. I see no entry in the log, other than a return to natural form, which accompanies a rest.
That looks like a shapechange spell being fired at 33:41.
That looks like loading-screen text in the event log "many items can be built or upgraded by cespenar...."

Looks like fake talk at 33:50. moves mostly out of range, casts project image, and then the contingency fires three more images. Ok, that's lunacy right there. holy shit. that's crazy.
The runner has a planetar fire magic missles to ruin the projected images. Why not true sight?
So, that's about it up through 37:30. The runner wastes a few planetars by not getting them off the satellites, but it doesn't appear to be an issue since there's enough to surround mellisan.

I'd say the last frame is 67692. That's the end of player input (return key to skip through dialogue).

A really great run. I can't see any "cheating". There's a glitches/bugs that are used, such as the "fake talk", but those are well known and completely reproducable. There might be a few places where a 3x skull trap trigger would have sped things up without hindering spell casting.

As for timing:
The routing and mechanics used during the run clearly point to a superior route and methodology. However, I am unable to do anything other than estimate the time for this run. The runner has already edited the video, so I'm just going to do an inclusive addition.

67693 frames / 30fps = 2256.4 seconds = 37 minutes, 37 seconds[/quote]

Smilge

2008-12-17 10:33:34 pm

Wow, very nice review. If I can, I'll clear up some things for you.

Quote:

Right up front, I'm going to register a complaint about the video quailty. It's really bad.

Sorry about video quality. I don't know what files you guys get, but the HQ MP4 doesn't look too horrible. You'll be pleased to know future submissions will be filmed full size instead of half size. Sample.

Quote:

The video has also been significantly altered, including but not limited to the removal of loading screens.

I was told I could either make a spreadsheet of the start and stop of each loading screen, or edit them out myself. It seemed easier for everyone if I did it myself. I do realize there's the possibility I could be editing out a frame or two in addition the the loading screen, but over the whole run it couldn't be worth more than a few seconds. I wouldn't risk all the work that went into the run by cheating for a few seconds off my time.

Quote:

The battle with bhodi is basically just a waiting game for all the waves to spawn. I guess Sarevok is extra xp as well.

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about here. Bohdi isn't in Throne of Bhaal (you kill her in SoA). Sarevok offers to be a party member, but he's kind of useless so I reject him.
The waves that come are dependent on your alignment. As chaotic, I get kobolds, doppelgangers, saughin, ogre mages, some other crap, and drow.

Quote:

another cloudkill at 3:47, since the swords are immune. I'm not entirely sure all those area of effect spells are cloudkill. the only other thing it could be is incendiary cloud.

The first clouds are cloudkill, as they instantly kill the low level waves. After the swords are spawned, I move up to Incendiary cloud. It does tons more damage to the drow who can't be instant killed with cloudkill.

Quote:

I'm going to guess disintegrate. That's got to have some crazy probability.

Yes, and yes. I believe it's a 1 in 20 chance. It certainly felt like it.

Quote:

Ah, triggers the skull traps at 11:35 on thelyn. That is some severe ownage right there. I'm not sure about the range on that.

To bypass her 90 magic resistance, a spell trigger with friendly fire spells (skull trap) is cast on the PC. For whatever reason, it ignores magic resistance. The mirror images prevent me from dying.

Quote:

Dispels and another dragon breath. Grabs the ward. I'm not sure what's up with that graphic glitch and flaming body at 14:50.

The body gets knocked back from the dragons breath, and it also has to be on fire. It causes some weirdness with the graphics engine every time. The dispel was actually cast by the lich on me.

Quote:

I guess if you do the mind flayer thing and butcher that hooker where she stands, there's a trigger that doesn't get set and the game is broken.

Exactly.

Quote:

Frames 37094 and 37095. I don't know what to say here, other than discontinuous.

When I submitted, I included this in the email

"There is one problem. As I was editing out the loading/saving screens, I noticed that the start of segment 9 (0:20:48) is missing the "Loading" screen. I must have hit the record button a moment too late. I figure that we can add some sort of penalty (5 seconds should be more than enough) and have the verifiers take an extra close look at that part to make sure there was no funny business. If that's not acceptable, I have all the raw fraps files if you need them. Otherwise, let me know what I can do."

Quote:

That looks like a rest screen at frame 60553. I see no entry in the log, other than a return to natural form, which accompanies a rest.
That looks like a shapechange spell being fired at 33:41.
That looks like loading-screen text in the event log "many items can be built or upgraded by cespenar...."

All correct except for the shapechange. It does a spell effect when you ask to go to the throne of Bhaal.

Quote:

The runner has a planetar fire magic missles to ruin the projected images. Why not true sight?

True sight only affects enemies.

Quote:

37 minutes, 37 seconds

I got 37 minutes 16 seconds. I didn't count the character creation time, so I started timing when my character first entered the game. I added in the segment penalties, but didn't add in a penalty for the missing loading screen.

Thanks a lot for your very very in depth review. I loved reading it.

Wow, very nice review. If I can, I'll clear up some things for you.
[quote]
Right up front, I'm going to register a complaint about the video quailty. It's really bad. 
[/quote]
Sorry about video quality. I don't know what files you guys get, but the HQ MP4 doesn't look too horrible. You'll be pleased to know future submissions will be filmed full size instead of half size. [url=http://files.filefront.com/Vidtest+IQmp4/;12637668;/fileinfo.html] Sample.[/url]
[quote]The video has also been significantly altered, including but not limited to the removal of loading screens.[/quote]
I was told I could either make a spreadsheet of the start and stop of each loading screen, or edit them out myself. It seemed easier for everyone if I did it myself. I do realize there's the possibility I could be editing out a frame or two in addition the the loading screen, but over the whole run it couldn't be worth more than a few seconds. I wouldn't risk all the work that went into the run by cheating for a few seconds off my time.
[quote]The battle with bhodi is basically just a waiting game for all the waves to spawn. I guess Sarevok is extra xp as well.[/quote]
I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about here. Bohdi isn't in Throne of Bhaal (you kill her in SoA). Sarevok offers to be a party member, but he's kind of useless so I reject him.
The waves that come are dependent on your alignment. As chaotic, I get kobolds, doppelgangers, saughin, ogre mages, some other crap, and drow.
[quote]another cloudkill at 3:47, since the swords are immune. I'm not entirely sure all those area of effect spells are cloudkill. the only other thing it could be is incendiary cloud.[/quote]
The first clouds are cloudkill, as they instantly kill the low level waves. After the swords are spawned, I move up to Incendiary cloud. It does tons more damage to the drow who can't be instant killed with cloudkill.

[quote]I'm going to guess disintegrate. That's got to have some crazy probability.[/quote]
Yes, and yes. I believe it's a 1 in 20 chance. It certainly felt like it.

[quote]Ah, triggers the skull traps at 11:35 on thelyn. That is some severe ownage right there. I'm not sure about the range on that.[/quote]
To bypass her 90 magic resistance, a spell trigger with friendly fire spells (skull trap) is cast on the PC. For whatever reason, it ignores magic resistance. The mirror images prevent me from dying.

[quote] Dispels and another dragon breath. Grabs the ward. I'm not sure what's up with that graphic glitch and flaming body at 14:50. [/quote]
The body gets knocked back from the dragons breath, and it also has to be on fire. It causes some weirdness with the graphics engine every time. The dispel was actually cast by the lich on me.

[quote]I guess if you do the mind flayer thing and butcher that hooker where she stands, there's a trigger that doesn't get set and the game is broken.[/quote]
Exactly.

[quote]Frames 37094 and 37095. I don't know what to say here, other than discontinuous.[/quote]
When I submitted, I included this in the email

"There is one problem. As I was editing out the loading/saving screens, I noticed that the start of segment 9 (0:20:48) is missing the "Loading" screen. I must have hit the record button a moment too late. I figure that we can add some sort of penalty (5 seconds should be more than enough) and have the verifiers take an extra close look at that part to make sure there was no funny business. If that's not acceptable, I have all the raw fraps files if you need them. Otherwise, let me know what I can do."

[quote]That looks like a rest screen at frame 60553. I see no entry in the log, other than a return to natural form, which accompanies a rest.
That looks like a shapechange spell being fired at 33:41.
That looks like loading-screen text in the event log "many items can be built or upgraded by cespenar...."
[/quote]

All correct except for the shapechange. It does a spell effect when you ask to go to the throne of Bhaal.

[quote]The runner has a planetar fire magic missles to ruin the projected images. Why not true sight?[/quote]
True sight only affects enemies.

[quote]37 minutes, 37 seconds[/quote]
I got 37 minutes 16 seconds. I didn't count the character creation time, so I started timing when my character first entered the game. I added in the segment penalties, but didn't add in a penalty for the missing loading screen.

Thanks a lot for your very very in depth review. I loved reading it.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-01-05 08:53:06 am

Quote:

Every moment this isn't on SDA is a crime against humanity

so why hasn't it gone up yet? Games verified since have - I hope it hasn't been forgotten about!

mikwuyma

2009-01-05 12:41:17 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Yeah, I'm sorry, I've just been really busy with MAGFest related stuff. I still have people over at my place so I probably won't start working on this run until tomorrow.

whathuh

2010-09-30 10:40:42 am

Nearly a year later...

Sorry to bring this up, but it looks like Smilge is using gMinion, a set of scripts which greatly improve minions, as well as make them never be able to turn hostile.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/cirerrek/gminion.php

I know this because the swords used go back to the character once they are done fighting, and they don't turn hostile after you cast a cloud over them.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-09-30 11:27:49 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-09-30 11:27:41 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-09-30 11:26:58 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-09-30 11:08:57 am

2010-09-30 11:07:53 am

Quote from whathuh:

Nearly a year later...

Sorry to bring this up, but it looks like Smilge is using gMinion, a set of scripts which greatly improve minions, as well as make them never be able to turn hostile.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/cirerrek/gminion.php

I know this because the swords used go back to the character once they are done fighting, and they don't turn hostile after you cast a cloud over them.

Smilge wasn't using gMinion. All the Sword behaviour in the run is consistent with vanilla ToB.

Unlike most other summons, Magical Swords aren't scripted to turn hostile when attacked. They are, however, scripted to retaliate when attacked (I think every creature in the game is, with the exceptions of those with no scripts at all like statues and those that are scripted to flee from battle like city commoners). The swords aren't going back to Smilge when they're done fighting, they're chasing after him to attack him in retaliation for being hit by the Incendiary Cloud (they're immune to it, but they don't care).

It would've been both more prudent and more polite to test your accusation before posting it, or at least to acknowledge in your post that you hadn't tested it and therefore might be wrong.

[quote="whathuh"]Nearly a year later...

Sorry to bring this up, but it looks like Smilge is using gMinion, a set of scripts which greatly improve minions, as well as make them never be able to turn hostile.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/cirerrek/gminion.php

I know this because the swords used go back to the character once they are done fighting, and they don't turn hostile after you cast a cloud over them.[/quote]

Smilge wasn't using gMinion. All the Sword behaviour in the run is consistent with vanilla ToB.

Unlike most other summons, Magical Swords aren't scripted to turn hostile when attacked. They are, however, scripted to retaliate when attacked (I think every creature in the game is, with the exceptions of those with no scripts at all like statues and those that are scripted to flee from battle like city commoners). The swords aren't going back to Smilge when they're done fighting, they're chasing after him to attack him in retaliation for being hit by the Incendiary Cloud (they're immune to it, but they don't care).

It would've been both more prudent and more polite to test your accusation before posting it, or at least to acknowledge in your post that you hadn't tested it and therefore might be wrong.